fasting center

[DiamondKing]

Well, I guess I've spent about five hours searching the Internet over the past two days, looking for specifics.

I figured with all these people 'detoxing' someone MUST know what it is that they are removing. After all, they are actually doing it to their own bodies, and should know, right?

But so far, pretty much all I can find is people using the term 'detox,' but nobody actually having any notion of just what it is that they are removing from their bodies, much less any scientific information about 'before and after' studies.

Everything seems to be completely anecdotal. As in; "gee, I felt really great after detoxing with a coffee colon cleansing. But they completely ignored the fact that perhaps it was the absorption of a heavy-duty hit of caffeine through the intestinal wall making them feel so good... After all, a LOT more caffeine is going to get absorbed that way than through the stomach and all its associated acids breaking down the caffeine. (That's why suppositories were invented...) I figure somebody who is doing this sort of thing regularly, or spending hard-earned money to achieve the 'detox' goal is going to know just what it is they are doing or spending their money on. It would seem otherwise.

A lot of people are chronically dehydrated and the high liquid period might explain a lot of the rate of cleaning.

There is no doubt that for someone chronically dehydrated that the high liquid period would help them. But is there really a need to stop other foods at the same time to achieve this?

If you had specific health problems like uric acid buildup causing gout then I imagine it could be measured pre and post fast to determine rate of clearance.

Hyperuricemia, what you call 'Gout,' is a build-up of uric acid in the blood stream, resulting in deposits around the joints. It's not a build-up inside the cell structure itself. And while reducing certain foods is a reliable way to reduce the symptoms of Gout, along with certain medicines, overall fasting was never considered to be a requirement. Sure, the extra liquid will help, as will the reduction of intake of foods have a high level of purines which are compounds that go into the production of uric acid in the body. But that calls for a life-style change, rather than a 3-5 day fast.

Yes, you're right. It is making for an interesting research project...

Congrats,

Your research is leading you towards the conclusion that rest of the education population has already arrived at. Juicing and "cleansing" are nothing more than dangerous fad diets, based on junk science. People are needlessly putting their bodies at nutritional risk. Its all non-sense, but thats not what some people want to hear. The proper way to become more healthy, is to cut back/ eliminate "toxins" such as caffeine, nicotine, chemically enhanced foods, etc.

Its the same with loosing weight. The only real way to lose weight long term, is to make lifestyle changes (reduce caloric intake, increase exercise). Its simple math. Weight loss = more calories burned than intaken. But some people don't want to hear that. Instead they waste all their time, energy, and money chasing harmful fad diets and magic diet pills.

Juicing/ cleansing is the same thing. People want to ignore common sense and look for a "magic bullet".

http://www.livescience.com/35561-5-experts-answer-juice-cleanse.html

-Mestizo

WHAT A CROC OF s$#^t Mestizo

You say People are needlessly putting their bodies at nutritional risk

Do you realize how many fruits and vegetables go into a glass of juice A HUGE PILE ??? way more that you could eat in any one sitting, EACH ONE of those fruits and vegetables ARE PACKED FULL OF NUTRIENT AND VITAMINS you could never eat it all, but you can drink it, and the only thing missing is the FIBRE which with a good juicer will end up in the waste box.

After Just ONE DAT of juicing the amount of vegetables and juice you go through is ASTOUNDING just to get a few glasses of juice and by weeks end you will of gone through sacks full so any mention of lack of vitamins and minerals is ridiculous especially as most things are juiced skin on.

Every Nutritional vitamin is consumed, including all the needed vitamins such as A,B ,C etc as well as PROTEIN which is abundant in this volume of vegetable intake.

So for you to say putting their bodies at nutritional risk is the comment from someone who is ignorant and not educated on the subject of juicing now if you are reffering to consuming ZERO calories then that is unsafe, but with juicing you are consuming all the goodness and nutrition of fruits and veggies just minus the fibre which is cast out.

The juice and vitamins are absorbed into the body extremely fast and there is no way anyone can say that you are putting yourself at Nutritional risk with a proper juicing/fasting regime THATS JUST A DUMB STATEMENT.

dk

Edited July 22, 2013 by DiamondKing

[FolkGuitar]

Folk Guitar

Your choosing to define Fasting as being these extreme programs perhaps for argumentative reasons.

No reason to hijack a pretty good technique that is available to everyone for no cost and seems to help some. There are even some studies to back it up. See link.

Intermittent fasting is probably the most popular type now.. If you believe Google Trends measures popularity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermittent_fasting

Is it bothering you that people are fasting?

or that they are benefitting from fasting for the wrong reasons?

I've repeatedly said that I am forming no judgements on fasting. I'm stating what I've found to be the case on the Internet, and what people are saying here.

I'm trying to learn about fasting. So far, I'm hearing only anecdotal comments.

I've based my comments regarding costs on what people who ARE fasting say on the Internet, and what people have said here. I'm not making this stuff up.

As for the definition of a 'fast,' well. Webster's Dictionary says;

Main Entry:3fast

Function:intransitive verb

Etymology:Middle English, from Old English f*stan

Date:before 12th century

1 : to abstain from food

2 : to eat sparingly or abstain from some foods

"hijack a pretty good technique" ??? What are you going on about? I'm asking questions about fasting. You, as a faster aren't able to answer them, and are getting upset. Don't get upset. Get educated about what you're doing. I'm trying to get myself educated about fasting but so far, the dedicated fasters aren't able to give me any information. And you seem to need to put words in my mouth so you can either defend your position (although no one is attacking ) or put down what I'm asking about by claiming I'm hijacking something. Don't be so defensive. If you are unable to back up your claims, I understand. No one else seems to be able to do so either. The Internet is full of people making generalized statements about fasting, with no scientific basis to back them up. Lighten up!

[FolkGuitar]

Is it bothering you that people are fasting?

or that they are benefitting from fasting for the wrong reasons?

Not at all. Why would you assume so? Because I'm asking questions about it? I'd like to know the answers.

I'm surprised that fasters, don't know the answers already.

If I do something to my body, I certainly would want to know the 'what' and the 'why' before I do it. Especially something that is going to stress my body.

Science HAS discovered that once the body goes below a certain level of caloric consumption it goes into a 'starvation mode' and begins to consume itself. That's fact. We know that when the body begins to consume itself, 'ketone bodies' are released as a product of fat metabolism. That's fact. We know that ketone bodies are poisonous. (Read:toxins) That's fact. But those toxins aren't present UNTIL the body begins to metabolize stored fat. That's fact.

Can you tell me some 'facts' about what toxins are stored in the body for any length of time that aren't water-soluble?

If you find this question threatening, you might ask why you feel so.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Folk Guitar

Your choosing to define Fasting as being these extreme programs perhaps for argumentative reasons.

No reason to hijack a pretty good technique that is available to everyone for no cost and seems to help some. There are even some studies to back it up. See link.

Intermittent fasting is probably the most popular type now.. If you believe Google Trends measures popularity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermittent_fasting

Is it bothering you that people are fasting?

or that they are benefitting from fasting for the wrong reasons?

I've repeatedly said that I am forming no judgements on fasting. I'm stating what I've found to be the case on the Internet, and what people are saying here.

I'm trying to learn about fasting. So far, I'm hearing only anecdotal comments.

I've based my comments regarding costs on what people who ARE fasting say on the Internet, and what people have said here. I'm not making this stuff up.

As for the definition of a 'fast,' well. Webster's Dictionary says;

Main Entry:3fast

Function:intransitive verb

Etymology:Middle English, from Old English f*stan

Date:before 12th century

1 : to abstain from food

2 : to eat sparingly or abstain from some foods

"hijack a pretty good technique" ??? What are you going on about? I'm asking questions about fasting. You, as a faster aren't able to answer them, and are getting upset. Don't get upset. Get educated about what you're doing. I'm trying to get myself educated about fasting but so far, the dedicated fasters aren't able to give me any information. And you seem to need to put words in my mouth so you can either defend your position (although no one is attacking ) or put down what I'm asking about by claiming I'm hijacking something. Don't be so defensive. If you are unable to back up your claims, I understand. No one else seems to be able to do so either. The Internet is full of people making generalized statements about fasting, with no scientific basis to back them up. Lighten up!

I will just let anyone read this thread to see who is acting defensive. You attacked Hippocrates a few posts ago. Hilarious.

Uh I am not backing up any claims because I really don't have any other than it works for me and have read some studies that might indicate some benefits like longevity.

I have offered some of the theories like evolutionary habits, toxin flushing, hydration and assisting stuff like sweating and activated charcoal.

Maybe your arguing with someone earlier in the thread.

[FolkGuitar]

........ and the only thing missing is the FIBRE which with a good juicer will end up in the waste box.

Why does fibre end up in the waste box? I can understand that lots of cellulose (from the exocarp/skin) ending up as waste, as well as the mesocarp of some fruits such as oranges, but dietary fiber is found throughout the pulp of the fruit, and passes through juicers in liquid form. It's not a solid like the skin or rind. Fibre isn't the stuff in the waste box. Your juicer IS giving you high-fibre drinks. Very high fiber. In fact, there is a severe gastrointestinal syndrome caused by over-doing hi-fiber intake. Be careful... Moderation is your friend when it comes to nutrition.

Every Nutritional vitamin is consumed, including all the needed vitamins such as A,B ,C etc as well as PROTEIN which is abundant in this volume of vegetable intake.

This is VERY true! Unfortunately, except for Vitamin E, K, and A, the body can not store them, so no matter how much you ingest, you are just going to excrete all the extra. Ingesting too much Vitamin A can be deadly, and the body CAN store that up. (Can we call that a toxin? ) Minerals too run the same problem. Most of them can not be stored by the body. Those that can, run the risk of being a health hazard. The next part of the problem is that the body simply doesn't need vitamins every day. Big Pharma wants us to believe it, but Science says otherwise. It takes quite a long to without vitamins for the body to deplete it's supply and call for more. And with Vitamins such as C and Bcomplex, re-starting ingestion solves the problem instantly. A lot of people will take extra Vitamin C when they get a cold, because they remember the wonderful Vitamin C cold cure, forgetting that this was INJECTED mega-dose Vitamin C, which is the only way the body can assimilate so much at one time. Orally, you will just excrete the excess in sweat or urine. Something to keep in mind, too, is that research published recently found that men who take vitamin C supplements every day double their risk of suffering from kidney stones. The excruciating condition is on the rise - and Swedish researchers say a bi-product of the vitamin may be to blame. Men who took vitamin C supplements at least once a day had the highest risk of kidney stones, according to research published in the journal JAMA.

As for the protein in fruits... again, very true. Lots of protein there. But to metabolize protein, you need carbohydrates. If you don't supply them in your food, the body will start to consume itself (and you lose weight, which can be a good thing... unless your body begins to consume muscle mass...) Fortunately, fruits do have carbs.

Juice is very good for you. In moderation. Just like most foods.

Moderation. Change to a healthy life-style, eat freshly prepared foods, and there is no need for fads or special diets. Unless ya just like the taste of juice. And that's cool too!

Edited July 22, 2013 by FolkGuitar

[FolkGuitar]

Folk Guitar

Your choosing to define Fasting as being these extreme programs perhaps for argumentative reasons.

No reason to hijack a pretty good technique that is available to everyone for no cost and seems to help some. There are even some studies to back it up. See link.

Intermittent fasting is probably the most popular type now.. If you believe Google Trends measures popularity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermittent_fasting

Is it bothering you that people are fasting?

or that they are benefitting from fasting for the wrong reasons?

I've repeatedly said that I am forming no judgements on fasting. I'm stating what I've found to be the case on the Internet, and what people are saying here.

I'm trying to learn about fasting. So far, I'm hearing only anecdotal comments.

I've based my comments regarding costs on what people who ARE fasting say on the Internet, and what people have said here. I'm not making this stuff up.

As for the definition of a 'fast,' well. Webster's Dictionary says;

Main Entry:3fast

Function:intransitive verb

Etymology:Middle English, from Old English f*stan

Date:before 12th century

1 : to abstain from food

2 : to eat sparingly or abstain from some foods

"hijack a pretty good technique" ??? What are you going on about? I'm asking questions about fasting. You, as a faster aren't able to answer them, and are getting upset. Don't get upset. Get educated about what you're doing. I'm trying to get myself educated about fasting but so far, the dedicated fasters aren't able to give me any information. And you seem to need to put words in my mouth so you can either defend your position (although no one is attacking ) or put down what I'm asking about by claiming I'm hijacking something. Don't be so defensive. If you are unable to back up your claims, I understand. No one else seems to be able to do so either. The Internet is full of people making generalized statements about fasting, with no scientific basis to back them up. Lighten up!

I will just let anyone read this thread to see who is acting defensive. You attacked Hippocrates a few posts ago. Hilarious.

Uh I am not backing up any claims because I really don't have any other than it works for me and have read some studies that might indicate some benefits like longevity.

I have offered some of the theories like evolutionary habits, toxin flushing, hydration and assisting stuff like sweating and activated charcoal.

Maybe your arguing with someone earlier in the thread.

If stating facts is attacking, then yes, I dared to attack Hippocrates. Mea Culpa... I hope his fan club doesn't come after me. I really hate it when that happens.

And now you are saying what all the other fasters fall back on; I really have no idea but it works for me... Or, at least, so you think.

You've offered no theories. You stated what you said as facts. But facts without any scientific validity. I kept asking for that validation.

You've talked about 'toxin flushing' but admit to having no clue to what that really means, what specifically is being flushed from your body, or where in the body it might actually be stored! Basically, you've made a lot of noise and said nothing that can be substantiated... just like 95% of the information I've found on the Internet. Congratulations.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Folk Guitar

Your choosing to define Fasting as being these extreme programs perhaps for argumentative reasons.

No reason to hijack a pretty good technique that is available to everyone for no cost and seems to help some. There are even some studies to back it up. See link.

Intermittent fasting is probably the most popular type now.. If you believe Google Trends measures popularity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermittent_fasting

Is it bothering you that people are fasting?

or that they are benefitting from fasting for the wrong reasons?

I've repeatedly said that I am forming no judgements on fasting. I'm stating what I've found to be the case on the Internet, and what people are saying here.

I'm trying to learn about fasting. So far, I'm hearing only anecdotal comments.

I've based my comments regarding costs on what people who ARE fasting say on the Internet, and what people have said here. I'm not making this stuff up.

As for the definition of a 'fast,' well. Webster's Dictionary says;

Main Entry:3fast

Function:intransitive verb

Etymology:Middle English, from Old English f*stan

Date:before 12th century

1 : to abstain from food

2 : to eat sparingly or abstain from some foods

"hijack a pretty good technique" ??? What are you going on about? I'm asking questions about fasting. You, as a faster aren't able to answer them, and are getting upset. Don't get upset. Get educated about what you're doing. I'm trying to get myself educated about fasting but so far, the dedicated fasters aren't able to give me any information. And you seem to need to put words in my mouth so you can either defend your position (although no one is attacking ) or put down what I'm asking about by claiming I'm hijacking something. Don't be so defensive. If you are unable to back up your claims, I understand. No one else seems to be able to do so either. The Internet is full of people making generalized statements about fasting, with no scientific basis to back them up. Lighten up!

I will just let anyone read this thread to see who is acting defensive. You attacked Hippocrates a few posts ago. Hilarious.

Uh I am not backing up any claims because I really don't have any other than it works for me and have read some studies that might indicate some benefits like longevity.

I have offered some of the theories like evolutionary habits, toxin flushing, hydration and assisting stuff like sweating and activated charcoal.

Maybe your arguing with someone earlier in the thread.

If stating facts is attacking, then yes, I dared to attack Hippocrates. Mea Culpa... I hope his fan club doesn't come after me. I really hate it when that happens.

And now you are saying what all the other fasters fall back on; I really have no idea but it works for me... Or, at least, so you think.

You've offered no theories. You stated what you said as facts. But facts without any scientific validity. I kept asking for that validation.

You've talked about 'toxin flushing' but admit to having no clue to what that really means, what specifically is being flushed from your body, or where in the body it might actually be stored! Basically, you've made a lot of noise and said nothing that can be substantiated... just like 95% of the information I've found on the Internet. Congratulations.

Okay I can roll with that. So what?

So let's deconstruct this.

1) You don't believe it works for me?

2) You don't believe my statement "that it works for me"?

3) I am delusional person trying to sell people on considering fasting?

[FolkGuitar]

If stating facts is attacking, then yes, I dared to attack Hippocrates. Mea Culpa... I hope his fan club doesn't come after me. I really hate it when that happens.

And now you are saying what all the other fasters fall back on; I really have no idea but it works for me... Or, at least, so you think.

You've offered no theories. You stated what you said as facts. But facts without any scientific validity. I kept asking for that validation.

You've talked about 'toxin flushing' but admit to having no clue to what that really means, what specifically is being flushed from your body, or where in the body it might actually be stored! Basically, you've made a lot of noise and said nothing that can be substantiated... just like 95% of the information I've found on the Internet. Congratulations.

Okay I can roll with that. So what?

So let's deconstruct this.

1) You don't believe it works for me?

2) You don't believe my statement "that it works for me"?

3) I am delusional person trying to sell people on considering fasting?

Wow! You got all those negatives from the statements I made? Amazing.

1. I didn't say that 'I" don't believe it works for you. I said 'you think it works for you.'

2. I believe that YOU believe it works for you.

3. This one is just too far-fetched to even respond to. Does fasting cause paranoid thinking?

I guess it's too delicate a subject to try to learn about in TV. No one should question the Emperor's New Clothes.

I think I'm going to back out of this line of investigation before someone accuses me of starting a World-wide Anti-Fasting movement.

Good luck with your fast.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I would love to hear from other readers what they think about this discussion.

Maybe have some questions about theories and practices.

Who was most 'toxic' in this thread? CSN or FolkGuitar?

Don't sugarcoat anything on my account. I have messed around and studying fasting for decades but maybe I am out of my freaking mind. It's certainly possible.

Must be some intelligent lurkers out there.

[FolkGuitar]

This isn't a thread about you or me. It's about fasting. Why not keep it that way?

Perhaps someone with some science about the subject can teach us both just what these 'toxins' are, how the body stores them, and why/if fasting is a valid way to clear them from the body. Looking at the scientific websites, there doesn't seem to be much evidence that fasting does much of anything other than removing waste from the gastrointestinal tract. Don't eat for a few days, your stomach is empty, your small intestine is empty, and your large intestine is empty. That's about the extent of scientifically substantiated body cleansing I can find on the Internet. Drink a lot of fluids and the kidneys get more of a workout. If that's what's meant by 'body detox' than by all means, it works.

Some folks swear that swinging a white chicken around over their heads while standing in a graveyard at midnight clears their aura. It might. It might not. So far, no one has been able to confirm this either. But folks still do it and feel better afterwards. Maybe that's all that counts?

Edited July 22, 2013 by FolkGuitar

[hellodolly]

Folk Guitar

Your choosing to define Fasting as being these extreme programs perhaps for argumentative reasons.

No reason to hijack a pretty good technique that is available to everyone for no cost and seems to help some. There are even some studies to back it up. See link.

Intermittent fasting is probably the most popular type now.. If you believe Google Trends measures popularity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermittent_fasting

Is it bothering you that people are fasting?

or that they are benefitting from fasting for the wrong reasons?

I've repeatedly said that I am forming no judgements on fasting. I'm stating what I've found to be the case on the Internet, and what people are saying here.

I'm trying to learn about fasting. So far, I'm hearing only anecdotal comments.

I've based my comments regarding costs on what people who ARE fasting say on the Internet, and what people have said here. I'm not making this stuff up.

As for the definition of a 'fast,' well. Webster's Dictionary says;

Main Entry:3fast

Function:intransitive verb

Etymology:Middle English, from Old English f*stan

Date:before 12th century

1 : to abstain from food

2 : to eat sparingly or abstain from some foods

"hijack a pretty good technique" ??? What are you going on about? I'm asking questions about fasting. You, as a faster aren't able to answer them, and are getting upset. Don't get upset. Get educated about what you're doing. I'm trying to get myself educated about fasting but so far, the dedicated fasters aren't able to give me any information. And you seem to need to put words in my mouth so you can either defend your position (although no one is attacking ) or put down what I'm asking about by claiming I'm hijacking something. Don't be so defensive. If you are unable to back up your claims, I understand. No one else seems to be able to do so either. The Internet is full of people making generalized statements about fasting, with no scientific basis to back them up. Lighten up!

I like definition number 2

That way I can say I am on a permanent fast because I never east cow tongue or haggis.

I am an old man I go back to the days when if you said you were fasting it meant you were not eating anything.

I am so old that in my day if you said some one OD ed it meant they died. Now it means they are feeling a little sick.

Age sure does change the perception of people. Now a days what was severe for us in are younger days is not even discussed in the same vein.

It is more like an inconvenience.

I don't understand this need to put nutrients in your body. If I am on a fast I am doing it to cleanse the body and lose weight. Surely a week of just distilled water would not harm my body providing I was healthy to begin with. It would definatly cleanse my body out and I would lose weight.

[CaptainKitty]

Toxins such as heavy metals are stored in the fat cells. Most toxins in the body are released through urine, and others are stored in fat cells. Myself personally I am going for heavy metals and parasites. Things also get stuck in the colon and intestine, possibly for years which is why colon hydrotherapy is very good accompanying a fast.

I'm a slim person already, but the first 4 days of my fast I was not burning any fat!!! (As shown through ketones in the urine. I do a daily urinalysis to determine my juice intake and exercise levels needed to remain a safe fat burning level)

.5 lbs per day is pretty standard, but the program I am on isn't for drastic weight loss, it's just for detoxing. I'm going for my third colon cleansing today.

I'm on day 14 now, and down about 7lbs.

I still have plenty of body far to lose, but obviously when the fat stores run out/get low I will halt the fast because then I'm no longer removing toxins from my fat cells.

Coming off the fast I have to do smoothies and raw food to acclimatize my digestive system.

Undigested coffee (as in coffee enema) stimulates liver bile production to help along the cleaning process, but it's hard on the very sensitive colon. Warm water is the safest way to do it.

[sustento]

What about juicing for people with diabetes?

Not very sensible. Orange juice is one of the methods recommended for bringing diabetics out of hypoglycaemia. All that fructose...

Edited July 22, 2013 by sustento

[wigantojapan]

You said you speak Thai pretty well,so,why dont you go live in a Thai temple for a couple of weeks.The monks there will be able to give you all the knowledge and understanding you need of what fasting is all about.If you find the right monk of course.

[FolkGuitar]

Thanks for that, Captain Kitty. Please let me ask a couple of followup questions...

THIS is exactly the sort of information I was looking for! Specific toxins and where they are stored in the body. Do you happen to know the mechanism by which the body stores them? I do know that heavy metals can be found in hair and fingernails for years ingestion (depending upon the length of the hair and nails, of course.) How does fasting get rid of these?

Things also get stuck in the colon and intestine, possibly for years which is why colon hydrotherapy is very good accompanying a fast.

Here is where concepts seem to get wonky... I was taught, in my medical training, that if undigested food matter gets lodged in the large intestine, and/or if the intestine becomes ulcerated ( as in a diverticular condition,) it is extremely painful. Does this pain motivate you towards colon hydrotherapy or are you doing it as a prophylaxis

I'm a slim person already, but the first 4 days of my fast I was not burning any fat!!! (As shown through ketones in the urine. I do a daily urinalysis to determine my juice intake and exercise levels needed to remain a safe fat burning level)

After 2-3 days of not eating any carbohydrates while maintaining protein intake, the body normally goes into Ketosis as it takes stored fats and breaks them down to aid in the protein metabolism process. Urinalysis with Ketostix is the usual home measuring method. (As popularized with the "Atkins Diet," the "Stillman Diet," and most recently, the "Paleo Diet,") My question is; if the body will break down fats simply by stopping carbohydrate intake, and by your explanation, rid the body of the stored toxins therein, why stress the body by ignoring almost all food intake?

Undigested coffee (as in coffee enema) stimulates liver bile production

Could you please point me to some valid scientific backup to this? I can't find a single source (medical source, that is. I find lots of holistic sources,) that says coffee enemas do anything other than give the recipient a good jolt of caffeine.

to help along the cleaning process, but it's hard on the very sensitive colon. Warm water is the safest way to do it.

I would imagine so!

Thanks again for your input.

[CaptainKitty]

Unfortunately most of the colon cleansing sources will be holistic but backed by medical doctors. I read in a book once that colon care was taught in medical schools up until the 50's.

modern medicine is more interested in treating symptoms with drugs or major surgeries than solving the initial problem. But that's an opinion based on observation...

I honestly am not knowledgeable enough to answer more of your questions about toxins.

However, your talking of things "lodged" in the colon, this would be major blockages/constipation! I'm simply talking about the normal build up that gathers along the walls of the colon/intestines, or small blockages in certain corners of the colon.

Certain foods (like red meat) are harder to digest and spend days in the colon, sometimes it just doesn't come out with natural pooping. A flush will also help wash out those smaller toxins and parasites that you are hopefully shedding.

As for the fast, vegetable have carbohydrates. Juicing allows the vitamins and minerals with none of the calories. It's not necessary for everyone, you can do a less drastic smoothie fast. I have already eaten pretty healthy however, for me this kind of fast us more effective.

[FolkGuitar]

I'm finding through my research that while Medical doctors are no longer proscribing colon cleansing (except for certain illnesses or procedures,) they are saying there is no particular health benefit. To be fair, they are also admitting that there is no harm in them.

I honestly am not knowledgeable enough to answer more of your questions about toxins.

It would seem that very few actually are! While I can find plenty of things that are toxic to human physiology, as well as toxins that are poisonous on build-up in the body such as lead, arsenic, mercury, cadmium, and various heavy metals, I can't find ANY medical sources that suggest fasting as a way to get rid of them. But I'll keep looking. The subject of the human body is one that should be near and dear to all of us!

I'm simply talking about the normal build up that gathers along the walls of the colon/intestines,

Would you happen to have any links that lead to scientific study showing that things actually 'build up' along the walls of the intestines? That's something else that I've been researching without much success. I can find plenty of anecdotal comments from Spas offering colon cleansing (and I really mean PLENTY!) but nothing from the medical field suggestion that there actually is a build up. Sure, certain foods do take longer to process, but even undigestibles pass in a matter of 24-36 hours at the most.

A flush will also help wash out those smaller toxins and parasites that you are hopefully shedding.

A flush certainly will. And lets hope that there aren't any parasites in your body to shed! That would be horrible.

. Juicing allows the vitamins and minerals with none of the calories.

Oh oh... Here I have to disagree with you 100%. Have you looked at the Nutrition Tables for raw juices? Here's a sample from http://www.myfitnesspal.com:

• Lemon Juice - raw
  
  Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 61, Fat: 0g, Carbs: 21.1g, Protein: 0.9g
• Orange Juice - raw
• Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 111.6, Fat: 0.5g, Carbs: 25.8g, Protein: 1.7g

  Grapefruit Juice - raw Pink
• Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 96.3, Fat: 0.2g, Carbs: 22.7g, Protein: 1.2g
• Grapefruit Juice - raw White
  
  Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 96.3, Fat: 0.2g, Carbs: 22.7g, Protein: 1.2g
• Passion-fruit - raw Yellow
  
  Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 148.2, Fat: 0.4g, Carbs: 35.7g, Protein: 1.7g
• Tangerine Juice - raw
• Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 106.2, Fat: 0.5g, Carbs: 24.9g, Protein: 1.2g
• Passion-fruit - raw Purple
  
  Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 126, Fat: 0.1g, Carbs: 33.6g, Protein: 1g
• Raw Juice: Green Apples, Cucumber, Celery, Ginger Root, Kale
  Serving Size: 1 Cup, Calories: 119, Fat: 0g, Carbs: 22.6g, Protein: 1g

  Carrot Juice - raw
• Serving Size: 150 ml, Calories: 43, Fat: 0.2g, Carbs: 10.1g, Protein: 1g

The USDA Nutrition Tables show proximately the same numbers, give or take a few calories here and there. Lots of calories in fresh juice. Good thing, too as the body needs calories (read: fuel) to keep itself running right. And they certainly are healthier calories than from Doritos, beer, or a Big Mac, and taste almost as good!

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Okay the fasting part is not eating and only ingesting water or juice etc.

Those are good cleansing inputs that can flush out wastes.

The getting the toxins and wastes out then I would lean primarily on the skin.

Hot steam or sauna's, InfraRed sauna's, mineral hot springs, hot yoga or exercise, epson salt baths and the liquids move thru the skin as sweat.

The more times one can cycle their water volume then that is where the magic happens of removing wastes. I just ride the bicycle up some mountains for a few hours.

There are other techniques for different organs like the kidney, liver, lungs (deep breath a lot), colon.

I was even reading that in the cult/religion system of Scientology have new members do many infrared sauna's to go thru a lengthy purification program. They are nuts but maybe crafty nuts.

Native american sweat lodges are good if you have one handy.

Edited July 23, 2013 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[hellodolly]

Okay the fasting part is not eating and only ingesting water or juice etc.

Those are good cleansing inputs that can flush out wastes.

The getting the toxins and wastes out then I would lean primarily on the skin.

Hot steam or sauna's, InfraRed sauna's, mineral hot springs, hot yoga or exercise, epson salt baths and the liquids move thru the skin as sweat.

The more times one can cycle their water volume then that is where the magic happens of removing wastes. I just ride the bicycle up some mountains for a few hours.

There are other techniques for different organs like the kidney, liver, lungs (deep breath a lot), colon.

I was even reading that in the cult/religion system of Scientology have new members do many infrared sauna's to go thru a lengthy purification program. They are nuts but maybe crafty nuts.

Native american sweat lodges are good if you have one handy.

Seems to me that you would need the fluid to cleanse the inside organs. But I do agree the saunas and such would also be a help.

So would a lot of diuretics

Not sure who too address this question to either FolkGuitar or CaptainKitty. The chart did not show fiber and maybe it is just me but it seems that in the last 10 years I have been hearing more about the importance of fiber in a diet.

[CaptainKitty]

Well I think I have to dropout of this topic, unfortunately you're asking questions again that I can't answer. If you can't find the information from medical resources I am not a doctor so I can't fill in the blanks. But if anyone wants t know about how my fast is going or the regime I'm on then inbox me!

I've now dropped 10lbs in 15 days, I'm feeling great, and I plan to do another cleanse in Thailand at one of the spa resorts maybe in the spring.

Good luck!

[sendbaht]

Not sure I need to fast but it always sounds interesting.

I pretty much follow the 80/10/10 way of eating..."Dr. Doug Graham" book"...I love fruit so this works for me real well.

[watcharacters]

believe it or not Koh Pangnan is the go to place for fasting and detoxes, they have the world famous and extremely expensive Sanctuary resort

they also have 3 other centers, they are Ananda wellness resort, orion healing, montevista, they probably have many more

out of the 4 places above, orion healing is the cheapest

there is the spa resort just north of chiang mai, but its not a bare bones type of place, but worth checking out

I went to the ananda wellness resort and did a 7 day fasting detox, it was a good experience, whilst i was there a woman finished a 21 day fast/detox and on her

19th day a huge dead worm came out of her rear end, it was at least 12 inches long!!! scary stuff

have fun

"19th day a huge dead worm came out of her rear end, it was at least 12 inches long!!! scary stuff"

I kinda wish I hadn't read that.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

None of these techniques are foolproof. Give a fool top notch tools and they will still make a mess. Give average tools to an intelligent and motivated individual and they will likely excel.

A lot of health studies ambiguous results often reflect the general state of human mediocrity.

The whole detoxification/cleansing concept is complicated and nuanced with many vertically integrated variables.

Fasting can be helpful on the input side but output side of detoxing via the 5 main detoxification pathways(organs) are far from simple.

It's like giving a cook a recipe. Some cooks have a knack because they pay attention and make adjustments. Some or even the majority just aren't chef material and will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory with little oversights.

Just go to the gym and look at different athletes. A lot of them are using similar development tools but their management skills and objectives produce a wide range of results.

Successful people tend to be good tinkerers with a goal in mind who adapt on the fly and learn from experimentation and feedback.

Foolproof techniques for the numb minded masses are great if you can find them but they tend to be few and far between when it comes to complicated systems like human biology.

[FolkGuitar]

After a few days of research of scientific study in several different countries, this seems to be the Medical consensus, ...

It is VERY different from what the believers of Detox say. Who's to know for sure which is correct?

http://sciencebasedpharmacy.wordpress.com/2013/01/04/the-detox-delusion/

[Dante99]

Interesting stuff, thank you.

Placebos work often.

The patient's mental state and attitude effect the outcome.

[FolkGuitar]

Interesting stuff, thank you.

Placebos work often.

The patient's mental state and attitude effect the outcome.

Perhaps more than the medicines. That is often the case. "Believe it and it works!" Or maybe "I'll see it when I believe it..."

Hey, just as long as it works for the user, right?

[sustento]

Oh oh... Here I have to disagree with you 100%. Have you looked at the Nutrition Tables for raw juices? Here's a sample from http://www.myfitnesspal.com:

• Lemon Juice - raw
  Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 61, Fat: 0g, Carbs: 21.1g, Protein: 0.9g
• Orange Juice - raw
• Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 111.6, Fat: 0.5g, Carbs: 25.8g, Protein: 1.7g

  Grapefruit Juice - raw Pink
• Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 96.3, Fat: 0.2g, Carbs: 22.7g, Protein: 1.2g
• Grapefruit Juice - raw White
  Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 96.3, Fat: 0.2g, Carbs: 22.7g, Protein: 1.2g
• Passion-fruit - raw Yellow
  Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 148.2, Fat: 0.4g, Carbs: 35.7g, Protein: 1.7g
• Tangerine Juice - raw
• Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 106.2, Fat: 0.5g, Carbs: 24.9g, Protein: 1.2g
• Passion-fruit - raw Purple
  Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 126, Fat: 0.1g, Carbs: 33.6g, Protein: 1g
• Raw Juice: Green Apples, Cucumber, Celery, Ginger Root, Kale
  Serving Size: 1 Cup, Calories: 119, Fat: 0g, Carbs: 22.6g, Protein: 1g

  Carrot Juice - raw
• Serving Size: 150 ml, Calories: 43, Fat: 0.2g, Carbs: 10.1g, Protein: 1g

The USDA Nutrition Tables show proximately the same numbers, give or take a few calories here and there. Lots of calories in fresh juice. Good thing, too as the body needs calories (read: fuel) to keep itself running right. And they certainly are healthier calories than from Doritos, beer, or a Big Mac, and taste almost as good!

The carbohydrate content of all those drinks is quite high and would not do a diabetic much good at all.

[FolkGuitar]

Oh oh... Here I have to disagree with you 100%. Have you looked at the Nutrition Tables for raw juices? Here's a sample from http://www.myfitnesspal.com:

• Lemon Juice - raw
  Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 61, Fat: 0g, Carbs: 21.1g, Protein: 0.9g
• Orange Juice - raw
• Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 111.6, Fat: 0.5g, Carbs: 25.8g, Protein: 1.7g

  Grapefruit Juice - raw Pink
• Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 96.3, Fat: 0.2g, Carbs: 22.7g, Protein: 1.2g
• Grapefruit Juice - raw White
  Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 96.3, Fat: 0.2g, Carbs: 22.7g, Protein: 1.2g
• Passion-fruit - raw Yellow
  Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 148.2, Fat: 0.4g, Carbs: 35.7g, Protein: 1.7g
• Tangerine Juice - raw
• Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 106.2, Fat: 0.5g, Carbs: 24.9g, Protein: 1.2g
• Passion-fruit - raw Purple
  Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 126, Fat: 0.1g, Carbs: 33.6g, Protein: 1g
• Raw Juice: Green Apples, Cucumber, Celery, Ginger Root, Kale
  Serving Size: 1 Cup, Calories: 119, Fat: 0g, Carbs: 22.6g, Protein: 1g

  Carrot Juice - raw
• Serving Size: 150 ml, Calories: 43, Fat: 0.2g, Carbs: 10.1g, Protein: 1g

The USDA Nutrition Tables show proximately the same numbers, give or take a few calories here and there. Lots of calories in fresh juice. Good thing, too as the body needs calories (read: fuel) to keep itself running right. And they certainly are healthier calories than from Doritos, beer, or a Big Mac, and taste almost as good!

The carbohydrate content of all those drinks is quite high and would not do a diabetic much good at all.

You are absolutely correct. I would think anyone with ANY special dietary requirements would need to follow their own medically prescribed regimen rather than one suggested by On-line health gurus.

Edited July 24, 2013 by FolkGuitar

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

The high sugar juice fasts will crush a lot of people. Even a fairly healthy person can get spaced out and dizzy.

It's also going to mean a lot of insulin release which is inflammatory. When the body is inflamed it tends to puff up and hold fluids.

Easier to fuel with a fat like coconut oil. The MCT Medium Chain Triglycerides can be utilized by the brain without being metabolized. The rest of the longer chain fats can be converted to glucose slowly without a lot of load.

Can just put the oil in hot liquids like Tea.

That's another example of a modified fast and doesn't require a full energy shutdown.

[hellodolly]

Oh oh... Here I have to disagree with you 100%. Have you looked at the Nutrition Tables for raw juices? Here's a sample from http://www.myfitnesspal.com:

• Lemon Juice - raw
  Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 61, Fat: 0g, Carbs: 21.1g, Protein: 0.9g
• Orange Juice - raw
• Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 111.6, Fat: 0.5g, Carbs: 25.8g, Protein: 1.7g

  Grapefruit Juice - raw Pink
• Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 96.3, Fat: 0.2g, Carbs: 22.7g, Protein: 1.2g
• Grapefruit Juice - raw White
  Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 96.3, Fat: 0.2g, Carbs: 22.7g, Protein: 1.2g
• Passion-fruit - raw Yellow
  Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 148.2, Fat: 0.4g, Carbs: 35.7g, Protein: 1.7g
• Tangerine Juice - raw
• Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 106.2, Fat: 0.5g, Carbs: 24.9g, Protein: 1.2g
• Passion-fruit - raw Purple
  Serving Size: 1 cup, Calories: 126, Fat: 0.1g, Carbs: 33.6g, Protein: 1g
• Raw Juice: Green Apples, Cucumber, Celery, Ginger Root, Kale
  Serving Size: 1 Cup, Calories: 119, Fat: 0g, Carbs: 22.6g, Protein: 1g

  Carrot Juice - raw
• Serving Size: 150 ml, Calories: 43, Fat: 0.2g, Carbs: 10.1g, Protein: 1g

The USDA Nutrition Tables show proximately the same numbers, give or take a few calories here and there. Lots of calories in fresh juice. Good thing, too as the body needs calories (read: fuel) to keep itself running right. And they certainly are healthier calories than from Doritos, beer, or a Big Mac, and taste almost as good!

The carbohydrate content of all those drinks is quite high and would not do a diabetic much good at all.

You are absolutely correct. I would think anyone with ANY special dietary requirements would need to follow their own medically prescribed regimen rather than one suggested by On-line health gurus.

Not that easy to get a Medical prescribed regimen here in Chiang Mai. The doctors all know a certain ammount about what you should and should not eat theat refers to every one. But to get a nutrisionest here in Chiang Mai not going to happen. There are none. I was willing to see one if all they could do was speak Thai. I would take the wife along. As is I just listen to the common sense my doctor tells me and I am sure any other doctor would tell me.