Fatal Saraburi accident: Tests needed to identify many victims of bus crash

[salapau]

Introduce Tachographs and ensure regular inspections for driving times and speeds. Ensure regular roadside checks of the detailI on the charts, I'm sure that many drivers of larger trucks, buses and mini vans spend too long at the wheel. Improve ministry checks on all vehicles, similar to annual MOT's in England.

[Lite Beer]

ROAD ACCIDENT
Four recovering in hospital after Saraburi horror crash

SARABURI: -- Only four people remain in hospital following the horror bus crash in Saraburi's Kaeng Khoi early Tuesday morning, Public Health Minister Pradit Sintavanarong on Wednesday said.

Out of some 20 injured people, only four were still hospitalised as of 11am; one at Kaeng Khoi Hospital and three at Saraburi Hospital. Most of them had suffered broken limbs, he added.

Pradit said the 19 victims whose bodies were burnt beyond recognition were sent to the Institute of Forensic Medicine (IFM) at Bangkok’s Police General Hospital for identification.

-- The Nation 2013-07-24

[tingtongfarang]

Introduce Tachographs and ensure regular inspections for driving times and speeds. Ensure regular roadside checks of the detailI on the charts, I'm sure that many drivers of larger trucks, buses and mini vans spend too long at the wheel. Improve ministry checks on all vehicles, similar to annual MOT's in England.

And who would be expected to enforce all of these regulations?

[SiamKitt]

Thailand49's post reflects my thoughts too.

If the bus was going East away from Saraburi it may well have been going uphill, (even slightly)..hence the 78kph..?

I also feel so,so sorry for the bus driver & his passengers, & firmly believe the driver of the bus should not be carrying any blame here.

If.. I say if.. the truck-driver was indeed coming downhill..even only slightly, chances are he would be speeding & taking advantage of good old gravity to help him along. Then IF as the report says, he fell asleep then the truck (in theory) becomes a missile!

Yet again it's way to easy for us all to relate back to Western standards of policing, law, & driving..here the roads remind me of

Mad Max 1..but with more cars. Maybe Interceptors with shotgun weilding officers MAY just make Fortuner-drivers stop thinking they own the road..?? R.I.P. those poor souls.. :-( :-(

[marquis22]

78 kilos is fast indeed when you have drivers with regard only for time and not human life.

Hey gemmy

The bus driver and passengers would have died at any speed when a truck coming towards them on the wrong side of the road with the driver asleep

Read the whole report before blaming the dead bus driver.

Thailand needs more laws enforcing transport drivers to take mandatory breaks between driving stints and a concerted effort to alert all drivers to the perils of driving when fatigue and falling asleep at the wheel.

[pacovl46]

Having a background in transportation safety at home in the States I get sick to my stomach when I read accidents such as what happen here. I get even more sick reading reading statement from this so call Transportation Minister who has no business or experience being in this job!

In this particular accident from the investigator it was clearly the tractor trailer fault! Period, read it! IT WAS REPORTED HE FELL ASLEEP!

What business or reason in this particular accident would you address safety for buses before addressing and developing a system to Nationally vet these commercial drivers and get them off the road. The biggest problem this Minister should be working on is develop and enforcing the hours that they are allow to drive on the road. I have heard stories from Thais driving 16 hours and such and laughing about it!

This reasoning is why nothing has been done just talk accident after accident, these vehicles weighs tons and are killing machines on the road no different than a gun. And when this Government and Ministry recognize the problem and have the guts to actually do something instead of worrying where their next bribe is coming from more lives will die! Driving is a privilege not a right as the Thais have been lead to believe!

Really sad and avoidable! R.I.P.

Well put. Have you ever seen lines of trucks on the highway, wondering why they are all parked there, it because they know the police are further down the road waiting for them - a kind of stale mate; the trucks are losing revenue - the police are losing traffic or tea money fines. The stupid thing is the police could get off their rear ends and fine the truck drivers for parking in an unauthorised area, but they don't. Most readers here may be surprised to learn that Thailand does have traffic laws that would stem a lot of these kind of accidents, but the integrity of the police is just not there to demand respect from the public to abide by traffic laws. As stated before the police is riddled from top to bottom with corruption; we can all see this especially at the end of month when rents/bank loans have to be paid, with the worst period being the back to school terms, where school fees have to be paid.

This is a very sad accident, but until the corrupt culture of the Thai police is stopped, we will read more articles of such accidents.

If you see lines of trucks in the outskirts of Bangkok before 9pm then it is because trucks aren't allowed to drive into the city before 9pm.

[thailand49]

Every bus and truck should be fitted with speed limiters,Every bus and truck should be fitted with a tachograph to record drivers working hours and maybe a more stringent driving test.These things will never be introduced because they will involve spending money.

I have many years of experience working with the Department of Transportation in the States particular in the Trucking/Bus Industry.

Although we are talking of Thailand, many of the western world rules are just common sense and Thailand has many of these rules already but like everything here it seems it is never enforced and case in point in Helmets right I think we can all agree on that one?

From that experience with DOT, in my opinion there will never be a device or a car/truck design in my life time that can completely control the negligence of a human being period. As for limiters or governors as they call it can't control a driver from taking a turn at 35 when the governor max out at 90 for example. In the end, like I said when it comes to humans if there is a will there is a way.

When it comes to driving look at the industry in the States, and we are in the 21st century. It all comes down to a old fashion log book in each truck, the mileage must be logged in when the driver takes over the vehicle, a walk thru inpection is made of the truck to any damages and mark on the log prior to leaving for the road. If airbrakes are used a test must be made and any defect that needs immediate attention the truck can't leave. This is done at the end of the trip so that the company mechanics can address the defects before the next day or the vehicle is taken out of service. The items being carried on the truck must be with the log and when the vehicle is inspected all the items must be given to the inspector! This log if you are doing long hauls like across the country must also include when you started when you took you sleep time etc..and etc...

In the end, no matter what the rules are nothing works if there is NO ENFORCEMENT! PERIOD! Log books on companies are randomly inspected by Local inspectors and fines are imposed on repeat offenders, Driver records must be provided and every infraction working or personal must be reported. There are also surprise urine test on drivers etc etc.. then there are the on the road inspection and this is where they check the load being carried and if the driver are taking their required breaks and sleep. And lets not forget the every two year physical that a driver must go through before he can take the road again. This card must be carried with the driver at all times. These rules above are why the trucking industry fought so hard to keep AFTA agreement sign my Congress to keep unsafe trucks from Mexico entering into the road of the U.S.? It goes on and on and there is more but if they are enforce the offenders are taken off the road and the road becomes safer in the end. Here there are many good drivers and maybe the truck driver was too but he push it just it a little too far. When you are tired on the wheel and your are thinking just a little bit more, open the window, turn the music up, stick you head out the window, next thing you know you are out! it comes that fast, I've seen it I've experienced it and I got lucky!

It would not take must to correct what is wrong here but it will take will more than anything else.

As for the truck driver surviving? Think about this a truck of this size the driver is sitting much higher as high as the 2/3 tanks, while the Bus driver is sitting low, when the missile came the bus driver had no chance!

Road condition matters and from what I can see and read, it was a clear and good road and if there wasn't lots of traffic 78 isn't that fast. One got to drive based on the condition if it was raining heavy yes 78 might be fast?

I ask myself when is it going to stopped day after day when the people who have the ability to change everything care more about lining their pockets than their own people. It happens so often now that no one seems to care like it is part of their life to expect it?

Edited July 24, 2013 by thailand49

[britinthai]

Having a background in transportation safety at home in the States I get sick to my stomach when I read accidents such as what happen here. I get even more sick reading reading statement from this so call Transportation Minister who has no business or experience being in this job!

In this particular accident from the investigator it was clearly the tractor trailer fault! Period, read it! IT WAS REPORTED HE FELL ASLEEP!

What business or reason in this particular accident would you address safety for buses before addressing and developing a system to Nationally vet these commercial drivers and get them off the road. The biggest problem this Minister should be working on is develop and enforcing the hours that they are allow to drive on the road. I have heard stories from Thais driving 16 hours and such and laughing about it!

This reasoning is why nothing has been done just talk accident after accident, these vehicles weighs tons and are killing machines on the road no different than a gun. And when this Government and Ministry recognize the problem and have the guts to actually do something instead of worrying where their next bribe is coming from more lives will die! Driving is a privilege not a right as the Thais have been lead to believe!

Really sad and avoidable! R.I.P.

Well put. Have you ever seen lines of trucks on the highway, wondering why they are all parked there, it because they know the police are further down the road waiting for them - a kind of stale mate; the trucks are losing revenue - the police are losing traffic or tea money fines. The stupid thing is the police could get off their rear ends and fine the truck drivers for parking in an unauthorised area, but they don't. Most readers here may be surprised to learn that Thailand does have traffic laws that would stem a lot of these kind of accidents, but the integrity of the police is just not there to demand respect from the public to abide by traffic laws. As stated before the police is riddled from top to bottom with corruption; we can all see this especially at the end of month when rents/bank loans have to be paid, with the worst period being the back to school terms, where school fees have to be paid.

This is a very sad accident, but until the corrupt culture of the Thai police is stopped, we will read more articles of such accidents.

If you see lines of trucks in the outskirts of Bangkok before 9pm then it is because trucks aren't allowed to drive into the city before 9pm.

Yes you are correct, but totally different to what I am talking about. I have seen this several times, which includes on the actual the expressway 7 to Pattaya

[SSSlongtime]

about time they do what the UK do ,check how long truck drivers are driving , take old shit trucks of the road ,check cars and trucks once a year ,like the west ,take away gaz tanks ,for sure they did not catch fire ,that was just luck ,but then this requires law and order

[orosee]

Truck driver allegedly falls asleep and the best idea so far is to talk to the bus operators? I got a few more ideas:

Policeman hit by speeding Ferrari - talk to police use pavement more often

Benz ploughs into bus stop - talk to commuters to be more athletic and jump.

Hitler all over Thailand - talk to Westerners about the origin of the swastika (oh wait, that one is real).

Seriously, where do they find these people?

[SteveB2]

RIP all those killed in this tragic accident.

I have traveled across Thailand many times during the last 18 years using most modes of public and private transport.

Both the Toyota mini-buses and the double deck inter province buses (like the one in this fatal accident) make me feel the most uneasy.

The mini-buses - because the drivers are often off-their-faces on yaa-baa/10 'Red-bull' or such like, and drive like the devil with ants in their pants...

and the double decked buses - because when sitting on the top deck, to my engineer’s brain, they feel most unstable... swaying from side to side with every slight bend in the road.

In this incident, a large 22 wheeler HGV crashed through the center reservation while the driver was asleep (ref previous replies, above) into a double decked bus whose driver was likely was killed instantly at the time of collision with the 22 wheeler HGV.

That the HGV driver survived, is apparent from viewing the photograph of the removable tractor cab (not visible in this T.V. article)- which is still relatively intact - The bus apparently hit the HGV a glancing blow, front side-on.

The idea of adding a dividing barrier strong enough to even prevent cars jumping over from one highway to another is difficult and expensive enough for a highway hundreds of Km long - trying to create a barrier strong enough to stop a 22 wheeler 32 ton truck crossing over whilst travelling at 100kmh - well, it would have to be a massive substantial structure coming up at least 2m off the ground above the Center of gravity of the tractor/trailer combination.

It’s been a really bad last few weeks for accidents on Thailand's public transport system. The tragedy of this accident if fully appreciated by the Thai; the reporting of this incident has received full coverage by all Thai TV channels.

However, I don't see the accident rate changing anytime soon. It’s just too expensive for Thailand to implement any effective measures to prevent this happening again in the future, at this stage in Thailand’s development.

[stoli]

78 kilos is fast indeed when you have drivers with regard only for time and not human life.

This is under 50 mph. The rest of your statement is just rubbish since you do not know this drivers intentions. How sad.

[diamondmax]

Here, I don't wish to apportion any blame to either driver as I don't know all the facts.

The government are saying they wish to do something to reduce the number of accidents.

Thats easy.

Make it illegal for lorries and tour buses etc, to travel in the outside lane except for when they are turning right.

If that was enforced before this accident then 19 people would still be alive today.

[bangkokheat]

having discussions with transport company, yes yes yes we will comply of course.

hammers for breaking glass in all buses probably total of 5000 baht

exit doors probably total of 8000 baht

fire extinguishers and the above totalling up to 20,000 baht

stiff fines for non compliance

log book

no one likes to be hit in the hip pocket

in western countries or the likes of japan the company directors could be up for manslaughter if people were trapped and died due to non compliance

[natas]

Taking the risk of the wrath of the kind and loving TV posters.

GPS record?? I don't understand really how that works but still what I read is 78km/h at TIME OF IMPACT -

I propose there is a chance of the driver having had some seconds to see it coming and maybe hit the brakes?? let off the gas at the least?? Is therefore POSSIBLE the bus was traveling much faster than 78 before impact, it's also possible if it were travleing at 78 before impact impact would not have happened. A millisecond one way or another can make all the difference in the world.

I'm guilty of speculation because of lack of facts which is what 90% of the posts always are here.

The way I see it is Shit happens.. mai pen rai.. life goes on (for most anyway) RIP for the rest.

I hope I would even be able to have this attitude even if it were my loved ones who were killed.

[kannot]

Wonder what the safety briefing will consist of? Im sure it will solve the problem instantly!

"hey get on a bus and you might die"

They could just do a sticker really saying

"We dont give a sh*T"

[kannot]

Taking the risk of the wrath of the kind and loving TV posters.

GPS record?? I don't understand really how that works but still what I read is 78km/h at TIME OF IMPACT -

I propose there is a chance of the driver having had some seconds to see it coming and maybe hit the brakes?? let off the gas at the least?? Is therefore POSSIBLE the bus was traveling much faster than 78 before impact, it's also possible if it were travleing at 78 before impact impact would not have happened. A millisecond one way or another can make all the difference in the world.

I'm guilty of speculation because of lack of facts which is what 90% of the posts always are here.

The way I see it is Shit happens.. mai pen rai.. life goes on (for most anyway) RIP for the rest.

I hope I would even be able to have this attitude even if it were my loved ones who were killed.

"Sh*T" happens for a reason you know.

Here its usually stupidity.

[Credo]

The safety instructions will be given in English for all those who don't speak Thai, right?

[monkeycountry]

RIP all those killed in this tragic accident.

I have traveled across Thailand many times during the last 18 years using most modes of public and private transport.

Both the Toyota mini-buses and the double deck inter province buses (like the one in this fatal accident) make me feel the most uneasy.

The mini-buses - because the drivers are often off-their-faces on yaa-baa/10 'Red-bull' or such like, and drive like the devil with ants in their pants...

and the double decked buses - because when sitting on the top deck, to my engineer’s brain, they feel most unstable... swaying from side to side with every slight bend in the road.

In this incident, a large 22 wheeler HGV crashed through the center reservation while the driver was asleep (ref previous replies, above) into a double decked bus whose driver was likely was killed instantly at the time of collision with the 22 wheeler HGV.

That the HGV driver survived, is apparent from viewing the photograph of the removable tractor cab (not visible in this T.V. article)- which is still relatively intact - The bus apparently hit the HGV a glancing blow, front side-on.

The idea of adding a dividing barrier strong enough to even prevent cars jumping over from one highway to another is difficult and expensive enough for a highway hundreds of Km long - trying to create a barrier strong enough to stop a 22 wheeler 32 ton truck crossing over whilst travelling at 100kmh - well, it would have to be a massive substantial structure coming up at least 2m off the ground above the Center of gravity of the tractor/trailer combination.

It’s been a really bad last few weeks for accidents on Thailand's public transport system. The tragedy of this accident if fully appreciated by the Thai; the reporting of this incident has received full coverage by all Thai TV channels.

However, I don't see the accident rate changing anytime soon. It’s just too expensive for Thailand to implement any effective measures to prevent this happening again in the future, at this stage in Thailand’s development.

These barriers already exists in many countries, and they are not even a meter tall. cars and trucks hitting them generally hit them at a low angle, and simply bounce off them. They may then hit traffic at their own side of the road, but at least here everyone drives in the same direction, so accidents are likely to be much less severe, compared to head on collissions with oncoming traffic.

Yes, a tall vehicle such as a truck or bus may indeed tip over on its side upon hitting the relatively low barrier, but then at least the vehicle will crash and stop, instead of continuing into oncoming traffic.

Yes, the barrier would of course simply disintegrate if hit head on by a big truck or bus, but that almost never happens. As mentioned, most vehicles hit the barriers at low angles and either bounce off or crash at the barrier, which in either case is preferrable to colliding with oncoming traffic.

[jacknorman]

A number of posts have been deleted, including inflammatory posts, troll posts and replies to them. Also posts which violate this rule:

8) Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais.

Please follow the rules when posting.

No we living in a free speech society, negative views ???? CAN THEY DRIVE AT ALL