No good deed: Chiang Mai ex-pat shot by man he tried to help

[kamahele]

I don't see the reasoning behind blaming this on Thai culture as this type of thing happens all the time in America (please no excess American bashing). Even in Hawaii which must be one of the safest places in the country if not the world where I spent much of my life, shootings, stabbings and beatings happen all too frequently when some have had too much to drink. Not only participants get hurt but bystanders and those who try to step in to help. Humans are a violent bunch.

[Wavefloater]

Well, good luck to all the heroes who are going to step in to break up a fight between two or more Thais. I hope it goes well for you and you walk away safely and feeling good about your deed. Sure it's the honorable thing to do, but the saying: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." wasn't coined without good reason.

As for focusing on this being only a Thai thing or a matter of blame, I certainly have not said or intended that, but I will not be one of the ones who is going to step in between two, three, or four drunk people anywhere who are engaged in a fight, especially in Thailand, and especially with Thais. As I said, it's not a matter of blame -- it's just a product of certain cultures, where in some of them this type of action is more dangerous that in other cultures.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Wavefloater

[chooka]

Isn't this an old story (about a person who didn't know better than to intervene in a Thai fracas -- perhaps an unfortunate person with good intentions who maybe doesn't understand the importance to Thais of saving face)?

You're an idiot. This has nothing to do with thai people. This exact same scenario happens all over the world. More often than not someone that wasn't even at the bar and is just walking by at the wrong time gets hit.

Yea happened in Melbourne Australia also where a passer by broke up an attack by 3 Thai's against a single Aussie. The 3 Thai's then left and returned with knives and stabbed the aussie to death, they then fled back to Thailand where two are apparently connected and extradition was not granted on the grounds that Aussies are racist and they would not get a fair trial.

Yep you are very correct Thai's do exactly the same thing in Australia also and it is not just Thailand.

[Wavefloater]

Isn't this an old story (about a person who didn't know better than to intervene in a Thai fracas -- perhaps an unfortunate person with good intentions who maybe doesn't understand the importance to Thais of saving face)?

You're an idiot. This has nothing to do with thai people. This exact same scenario happens all over the world. More often than not someone that wasn't even at the bar and is just walking by at the wrong time gets hit.

Yea happened in Melbourne Australia also where a passer by broke up an attack by 3 Thai's against a single Aussie. The 3 Thai's then left and returned with knives and stabbed the aussie to death, they then fled back to Thailand where two are apparently connected and extradition was not granted on the grounds that Aussies are racist and they would not get a fair trial.

Yep you are very correct Thai's do exactly the same thing in Australia also and it is not just Thailand.

Read post #31, and then read #36

Edited July 25, 2013 by Wavefloater

[Rosco911]

Ya know what...who gives a rats ass about the shooter...he's in a mental hospital supposedly and will soon be in

court...also supposedly...I hope he burns. Hoverver Mr. Brown...seriously injured and at present paralysed in

hospital is facing a huge problem...finances...and recovery. This is not an unusual story...many tourists have no

insurance and many insurance companies most likely do not have a clause/option for coverage if one get's shot.

Mr. Brown just tried to help and along with others got shot...by a drunk local twit (rich or poor who cares) in a

drive by shooting. I've fired off some Baht for his fundraiser...perhaps others reading this thread should do likewise

instead of speculating about the outcome or other matters of this incident...because that's all irrelevant now ain't it.

Well said Sunshine.

[nakhonandy]

Isn't this an old story (about a person who didn't know better than to intervene in a Thai fracas -- perhaps an unfortunate person with good intentions who maybe doesn't understand the importance to Thais of saving face)?

You're an idiot. This has nothing to do with thai people. This exact same scenario happens all over the world. More often than not someone that wasn't even at the bar and is just walking by at the wrong time gets hit.

Yea happened in Melbourne Australia also where a passer by broke up an attack by 3 Thai's against a single Aussie. The 3 Thai's then left and returned with knives and stabbed the aussie to death, they then fled back to Thailand where two are apparently connected and extradition was not granted on the grounds that Aussies are racist and they would not get a fair trial.

Yep you are very correct Thai's do exactly the same thing in Australia also and it is not just Thailand.

In principle you are saying only Thais do this. Hogwash.

This sort of crap happens all over the world.

The simple way to keep out of it is to leave. I never get involved in bar fights that do not concern me or my friends.

Why would you feel the need to?

Obviously the guy felt he was doing the right thing, but look what happened! Could have happened in London, NY etc not just here.

Feel sorry for the guy in hospital, hope it goes well.

[sadhukar]

Isn't this an old story (about a person who didn't know better than to intervene in a Thai fracas -- perhaps an unfortunate person with good intentions who maybe doesn't understand the importance to Thais of saving face)?

You're an idiot. This has nothing to do with thai people. This exact same scenario happens all over the world. More often than not someone that wasn't even at the bar and is just walking by at the wrong time gets hit.

Yea happened in Melbourne Australia also where a passer by broke up an attack by 3 Thai's against a single Aussie. The 3 Thai's then left and returned with knives and stabbed the aussie to death, they then fled back to Thailand where two are apparently connected and extradition was not granted on the grounds that Aussies are racist and they would not get a fair trial.

Yep you are very correct Thai's do exactly the same thing in Australia also and it is not just Thailand.

Yep you are absolutely correct! I live next to an Austrailian bar here in London and every now and then there's always a big scuffle leading to the cops being called; especially bad after cricket or rugby days (oh god don't make me go on about when England beat Australia in the Ashes a few years back). They then get locked up for a while. Austrailians; once convicts, always convicts, everywhere in the world!

Do you now realize how moronic you are?

[chooka]

Isn't this an old story (about a person who didn't know better than to intervene in a Thai fracas -- perhaps an unfortunate person with good intentions who maybe doesn't understand the importance to Thais of saving face)?

You're an idiot. This has nothing to do with thai people. This exact same scenario happens all over the world. More often than not someone that wasn't even at the bar and is just walking by at the wrong time gets hit.

Yea happened in Melbourne Australia also where a passer by broke up an attack by 3 Thai's against a single Aussie. The 3 Thai's then left and returned with knives and stabbed the aussie to death, they then fled back to Thailand where two are apparently connected and extradition was not granted on the grounds that Aussies are racist and they would not get a fair trial.

Yep you are very correct Thai's do exactly the same thing in Australia also and it is not just Thailand.

In principle you are saying only Thais do this. Hogwash.

This sort of crap happens all over the world.

The simple way to keep out of it is to leave. I never get involved in bar fights that do not concern me or my friends.

Why would you feel the need to?

Obviously the guy felt he was doing the right thing, but look what happened! Could have happened in London, NY etc not just here.

Feel sorry for the guy in hospital, hope it goes well.

No I am not in anyway saying only thais do this, but this topic is about what a Thai did and not an American, Fijian or Aussie. There may be a topic about a shooting elsewhere in the world in the world news forum. Have you noticed that when people comment on a story in the world news area they don't get defensive and say but hey it happens in Thailand also.

[nosatisfaction]

Considering that the shooter was drunk he can hardly be held accountable now can he?

Probably not in Thailand but elsewhere that defence doesn't work.

since when?

[SSSlongtime]

always walk away first sign of trouble

[chooka]

Isn't this an old story (about a person who didn't know better than to intervene in a Thai fracas -- perhaps an unfortunate person with good intentions who maybe doesn't understand the importance to Thais of saving face)?

You're an idiot. This has nothing to do with thai people. This exact same scenario happens all over the world. More often than not someone that wasn't even at the bar and is just walking by at the wrong time gets hit.

Yea happened in Melbourne Australia also where a passer by broke up an attack by 3 Thai's against a single Aussie. The 3 Thai's then left and returned with knives and stabbed the aussie to death, they then fled back to Thailand where two are apparently connected and extradition was not granted on the grounds that Aussies are racist and they would not get a fair trial.

Yep you are very correct Thai's do exactly the same thing in Australia also and it is not just Thailand.

Yep you are absolutely correct! I live next to an Austrailian bar here in London and every now and then there's always a big scuffle leading to the cops being called; especially bad after cricket or rugby days (oh god don't make me go on about when England beat Australia in the Ashes a few years back). They then get locked up for a while. Austrailians; once convicts, always convicts, everywhere in the world!

Do you now realize how moronic you are?

My deepest apologies for offending you it was not my intention as I didn't realise you were here and I wasn't directing my comment at you. My very deep and sincere apologies. If you wish to insult me that is fine I can take from the best but not ALL AUSSIES are MORONIC CONVICTS so I believe you owe them an apology.

Have a nice day

[hgma]

++Thai and Alcohol ++ nothing funny about it it usually ends up being a deadly cocktail!!

[hgma]

++Thai and Alcohol ++ nothing funny about it it usually ends up being a deadly cocktail!!

[chooka]

Considering that the shooter was drunk he can hardly be held accountable now can he?

Probably not in Thailand but elsewhere that defence doesn't work.

since when?

being intoxicated is not a defence and is taught to coppers day one week one.

[cheeryble]

As a decades long heavy drinker (since changed my lifestyle and close to TT) I hate to say it but the whole problem is alcohol.

I hate to think I'm one of those who changed suddenly becomes a saint and then demands others change....I don't, and some drunks are better than others, you could say they;re not really drunk....it's just that if alcohol wasn't involved the shot guy may have not been so confident to jump in and break up a situation which was already being dealt with, and the shooter almost certainly wouldn't have had the guts to shoot. Alcohol made him a temporary bold (though cowardly) man.

I gotta say, more and more when I sit down at a table it is immediately obvious if people are the least intoxicated because as the alcohol level goes up, so does their degree of being an utter bore. Repetitive, loud, self-centred, or violent......all the signs of a bad drinker, and quite a few drinkers are bad drinkers. And a bad drinker should stop drinking immediately, for his own sake, and not to bore others to death.

I now understand the words of one of my oldest American friends years ago.

"I don't like myself on alcohol, and I REALLY don't like other people on alcohol."

Edited July 25, 2013 by cheeryble

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

Ah the mental clinic route he will be trying to do a moo ham. There is no justice here when the rich are involved. All because of the corruption that a large part of the farang expats find great (its so easy to pay a bribe to drive fast so much better as back home.. not realizing that its all part of the system that makes sure there is no justice here)

i missed the part where it said the shooter is rich, could you point that out for me?

[oldsailor35]

Breaking up a pub fight does not constitute being a good samaratin.

Done it countless times. Wouldn't interfere in Thailand tho as it appears Thai's don't appreciate others medling.

Yes, but you are a copper in a country where there is some respect for law.

[gavin310]

Rule number 1 to live here as a foreigner. Always stay out of Thai conflicts especially in the bar scene. Last week a Thai was beating up his wife in front of a fuel station Bang Na. Your instinct says to give help. Later other Thais guys hit him with a brick on his scull.

Unfortunately this is true, especially if you're somewhere without many foreigners. I was at a local Thai nightclub and a guy was smacking around some girl out front. There were probably around 30 Thai people out front who couldn't be bothered by this and almost seemed bored, just slouching over casually watching. A few of them were even off-duty police officers. It wasn't easy to watch but intervening would have been a mistake. I think the only way you'll get "hit with a brick on your scull" is if the girl's family are there or hear about it and come around.

[Just1Voice]

Hi, in my profession (I'm a Krav Maga instructor and teach self-defence as part of that profession) we advocate to our students a firm policy of mind your own business unless it's family/friend situation of course. The best defence is what I call "defence by distance" be somewhere else - if you're not there you can't get hurt can you? If you'e in a place and you think somethings going to kick off. Leave, immediately. If this Canadian chap had just left when the fighting started he wouldn't be crippled now. I feel for him and his family, it's a terrible thing. But to everybody else reading this, remember "defence by distance" Be as far away as possible from this type of place and live to drink a beer another day!

I have to agree with this 100%. I started martial arts training in Shotokan when I was 8. Later I also studied other styles. I spent 20 years in the Marines, with 16 of that in Force Recon. Bottom line: at 173cm and 68kg, I can be a whole more dangerous than I look, and can definitely take care of myself. But I also learned the "distance defense" a long time ago. If it doesn't directly involve me, my family, my friends, Walk Away! I don't care if it's Thailand, Australia, USA, or any country you care to name. The only time I broke that rule was about 25 years ago when I saw a man nearly half again my size physically beating his 5yr old daughter in a grocery store. He spent 2 months in the hospital, and nearly a year before full recovery. And I don't have one bit of remorse about it.

Bottom line here: Common Sense outweighs physical ability. Walk Away.

[rayw]

Breaking up a pub fight does not constitute being a good samaratin.

I totally agree with this. It's not a good deed to interfere in such a way in Thailand.

So bloody stupid and sad that this is indeed truly the case here. A good example of why gun control laws need to be stringently enforced here (and elsewhere like the USA!!), as in most European countries, like the UK, most folk like that Thai idiot man would find it very difficult or almost impossible to lay their hands on a gun so quickly, or even at all. Bloody childish wild west psyche and this stupid losing face crazy system here which is also bloody immature too and equates to children's' playground law. Some folk just need to grow up and learn to live more happily and contentedly accepting whatever they have however little or great that may be. Jeez

Sure folk should stand up and fight for their rights and against exploitation by the fat cats, but not against each other for silly childish irrelevant reasons like this which is all too common an example.

[oldsailor35]

Isn't this an old story (about a person who didn't know better than to intervene in a Thai fracas -- perhaps an unfortunate person with good intentions who maybe doesn't understand the importance to Thais of saving face)?

You're an idiot. This has nothing to do with thai people. This exact same scenario happens all over the world. More often than not someone that wasn't even at the bar and is just walking by at the wrong time gets hit.

Yea happened in Melbourne Australia also where a passer by broke up an attack by 3 Thai's against a single Aussie. The 3 Thai's then left and returned with knives and stabbed the aussie to death, they then fled back to Thailand where two are apparently connected and extradition was not granted on the grounds that Aussies are racist and they would not get a fair trial.

Yep you are very correct Thai's do exactly the same thing in Australia also and it is not just Thailand.

I remember that! Have they still not been extradited.

[chiangmaisurprise]

In a civilized nation, it's usually a good deed to help calm a situation. Sadly, not here! When will they ever learn?

[kiwiinasia]

I feel sorry for the guy.

I also have no REAL insurance just the accident type.

I wonder if it covers "A guy shot me outside a bar after a fight I got involved in".

[lee b]

Getting involved with drunk Thais is suicide. Thats IT... Let the other Thais deal with the situation.

[rayw]

As a decades long heavy drinker (since changed my lifestyle and close to TT) I hate to say it but the whole problem is alcohol.

I hate to think I'm one of those who changed suddenly becomes a saint and then demands others change....I don't, and some drunks are better than others, you could say they;re not really drunk....it's just that if alcohol wasn't involved the shot guy may have not been so confident to jump in and break up a situation which was already being dealt with, and the shooter almost certainly wouldn't have had the guts to shoot. Alcohol made him a temporary bold (though cowardly) man.

I gotta say, more and more when I sit down at a table it is immediately obvious if people are the least intoxicated because as the alcohol level goes up, so does their degree of being an utter bore. Repetitive, loud, self-centred, or violent......all the signs of a bad drinker, and quite a few drinkers are bad drinkers. And a bad drinker should stop drinking immediately, for his own sake, and not to bore others to death.

I now understand the words of one of my oldest American friends years ago.

"I don't like myself on alcohol, and I REALLY don't like other people on alcohol."

Yes I agree with that too. I always when back home in the UK preferred to be with folk who were harmlessly smoking marijuana for their high rather than boozing alcohol. They were not only much more calm and happy and friendly but never boring or violent and indeed doing far less harm to their bodies than alcohol too. Never understood why alcohol is legal in so many countries yet marijuana is not, for public safety and health reasons it should be the other way around for sure if only Governments would apply intelligent reasoning. Anyway you should just leave self use of any drug in private to each adults choice and not make prohibitions on such personal harmless to others drug use, Just control the selling of them of course as we do now with the very harmful alcohol and tobacco..

So narrow minded blinkered unrealistic thinking in so many cases like this.

Oh and no I do not advocate the use of serious harmful drugs either as very few are safe like marijuana certainly is. Alcohol is a very harmful drug and causes lots of major problems if taken in excess and that is truly not the case with marijuana.

[wirat69]

Amazing Thailand!

[Commander Tamson]

Hi, in my profession (I'm a Krav Maga instructor and teach self-defence as part of that profession) we advocate to our students a firm policy of mind your own business unless it's family/friend situation of course. The best defence is what I call "defence by distance" be somewhere else - if you're not there you can't get hurt can you? If you'e in a place and you think somethings going to kick off. Leave, immediately. If this Canadian chap had just left when the fighting started he wouldn't be crippled now. I feel for him and his family, it's a terrible thing. But to everybody else reading this, remember "defence by distance" Be as far away as possible from this type of place and live to drink a beer another day!

This is such good advice, no matter where in the world you are.

Where/when I grew up you developed that instinct naturally and depending on your mood and/or company you were with, acted on it accordingly - but then no one carried guns then!!

[ppmacready]

Can we list this under Yinlucks "Thainess Promotion?"

Of course!

Because.

T.I.T!

[Halion]

Isn't this an old story (about a person who didn't know better than to intervene in a Thai fracas -- perhaps an unfortunate person with good intentions who maybe doesn't understand the importance to Thais of saving face)?

You're an idiot. This has nothing to do with thai people. This exact same scenario happens all over the world. More often than not someone that wasn't even at the bar and is just walking by at the wrong time gets hit.

Think you must live in a very small world. It does indeed happen in other locations, however, this iincident has everything to do with Thai people and the cultural environment they live in.where actions such as his are almost condoned and as often as not unpunished.

[Emdog]

It is always good to display manners and gently inquire "Is this a private war or can anyone join in?", then act accordingly.