Could you have settled in Thailand without the help from a woman?

[SteeleJoe]

aTomsLife wrote:

Being self sufficient and well traveled as opposed to not being those things, if not quality, how do such characteristics rate? Nevermind, you're not interested in figuring it out. You just want to agree with someone's ideas without knowing what they mean. Sorry for interrupting.

And strongly suspecting something means you're inclined to believe that such is the case. Don't see how I misquoted you. You're just being specious.

* I like people who are well travelled and self-sufficient. They are not the only people I like nor are they necessarily better than people who can't be described as such but may have many other very fine qualities equally or more admirable.

* I agree with the words posted. I know what they mean - they have a clear meaning that is quite literal - and I don't need to interpret them in order to agree with them nor do I need to use your subjective terms to describe the sort of people who he is referring to.

* Strongly suspecting means "I'm inclined to believe" it is true. It clearly not the same as an absolute declaration that it IS true.

Not sure why you have to be hostile and defensive just because I don't think as you do but...whatever.

Edited July 25, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[villagefarang]

If you can take care of yourself, speak the language, and have your own friends and interests here in Thailand, then you will be less dependent. You will be able to get a better read on the Thais you deal with, understand what is going on and be able to bring more than money to a relationship.

The internet is supposed to have made people smarter with access to so much information but having the information doesn’t mean one knows what to do with it. Our dependencies make us weaker in my opinion, whether that dependency is the internet or a woman. Whatever happened to hands-on experience?

Edited July 25, 2013 by villagefarang

[Amras]

I was recently thinking about this too.

I can't actually think of one situation where having a local girl acting as an intermediary for a foreigner is actually useful to the foreigner.

First, it stops you thinking for yourself and learning the language.

Second, they are always seeking personal gain from you (commission for them on everything at the very least, large ticket items put in their name at worst).

Third, all other Thais will assume the girl is/was a sex worker of some kind, so you will be socially disadvantaged (true or not doesn't matter).

Fourth, you are insulated from most of the reality of Thailand, so you are living a complete fantasy life.

Fifth, they will be a drag on your finances, the children that aren't yours are needy, the family hand is always stretched out.

Sixth, they are serving their own best interests, never yours.

Better for a foreigner to deal with things on their own and stand on their own two feet IMHO.

(When was your last holiday in the west where you had everything done for you be a local girl that left school at age 13?)

I can't agree with everything you said. The first point, pretty true, it gives you a fall back, that is easy to be accustomed too, I'm honest enough to say I fall into that, not because I'm lazy, just because priorities lie elsewhere (at the moment) and I have a choice.

Second and third point, hardly, except if there is a large age gap between you, then sure. But for those with partners around the same age, this doesn't come into it. It also depends on how the girl dresses, acts etc. Body language is everything.

Fourth...don't quite get, do you mean because of number 1, it means you don't have to deal with somethings, or can pass it off..?

Fifth, so find a girl who doesn't have children, doesn't have a family who expects handouts. Mine has never had kids, nor has a family who only thinks about money (year and half and never asked for anything, ever). But maybe she's rare.

Sixth, sure maybe you...maybe there are better options, hence they get what they can from you and move on.

The little contact I've had with Thai women, and I don't believe any of them have been hookers, ex or current, showed me that they were always on the take, secret commissions, most expensive options, etc. I expected a little humility. They always went for the biggest and best, restaurants, etc., things they would have never been in a position to afford themselves.

I wouldn't want any help from one if I was to settle there, and would probably prefer to hire rather than buy.

I feel so very sorry for you. You have apparently been treated very poorly by the local women and that is very sad.

Perhaps you haven't considered how arrogant you were towards them, how you wanted only to use them, like so many others who come to Thailand and perhaps you only met poor Thai women who were desperate enough to even look at you. You poor pathetic dumb ass. I object to people like you even being allowed to set foot in Thailand, let alone stay here. Go back to where you came from, Thailand and in particular, the Women of Thailand will be all the better for it.

Was going to say the same thing, but you beat me to it.

A big issue here, is people get treated (mostly) how they deserve to be treated. They generally say you attract the people that are most like you, so if you have little regard for Thai's (women) in general, you will likely get the women who think the same as you and use you for what they can.

Most men forget that women are much smarter at deciding who you are and what you are about in the first minutes of meeting you, compared to us, that they believe they can pull 'bullshyt' over their eyes and mislead them.

Women are born to 'be players and the chooser', that's how they weed out the wheat from the chaff (unlike men who aren't natural players, as much as they think they are).

The problem is most men (and this includes and is often the older men who come here) think they are something they aren't in the eyes of the local women. So they get used. I see it everywhere and it's blind obvious, it's often something the girlfriend and I discuss.

It's not only western men this happens to, but with older asian men as well.

[Torrens54]

Yes possibly, but I was lucky enough to find the best woman in the world, who just happens to be Thai and made me want to stay.

I first came here more than 30 years ago with a bunch of journalists on a "famil trip" to gather material for our various newspapers and/or radio and tv stations. The first time I saw Chainag Mai, I told my colleagues in the bus, that I would come and live here one day. Many trips later and having brought many other journos and tourists to Thailand, I came to live and work here.

I was lucky enough to meet the Lady who is now my wife and who helped me get settled into life here. She majored in English, which is a good thing because my command of the Thai language, I am ashamed to admit, is Nidnoi. Now of course I have not only my wife but also our daughter to help me get along with anything that has to be written in Thai.

We went to live in my home country for a while and enjoyed our time there but decided that Thailand, Chiang Mai in particular, has so much more to offer and we've been back and enjoying our lifestyle for a couple of years. I'm very lucky, I have a wife and a daughter who have again, settled me in Thailand.

[aTomsLife]

aTomsLife wrote:

Being self sufficient and well traveled as opposed to not being those things, if not quality, how do such characteristics rate? Nevermind, you're not interested in figuring it out. You just want to agree with someone's ideas without knowing what they mean. Sorry for interrupting.

And strongly suspecting something means you're inclined to believe that such is the case. Don't see how I misquoted you. You're just being specious.

* I like people who are well travelled and self-sufficient. They are not the only people I like nor are they necessarily better than people who can't be described as such but may have many other very fine qualities equally or more admirable.

* I agree with the words posted. I know what they mean - they have a clear meaning that is quite literal - and I don't need to interpret them in order to agree with them nor do I need to use your subjective terms to describe the sort of people who he is referring to.

* Strongly suspecting means "I'm inclined to believe" it is true. It clearly not the same as an absolute declaration that it IS true.

Not sure why you have to be hostile and defensive just because I don't think as you do but...whatever.

rayongchealsea's initial post segues into a diatribe about sexpats, e.g., "love at first blowjob"; that was where I got my context from about quality of expat. I don't think I'm being subjective here; it's obvious what he meant.

I'm not trying to be hostile or defensive toward you -- I even apologized to you in #23. In hindsight it appears if I misunderstood you, it's because you took RC's post out of context by cherry picking his statement: it's quite clear he was inferring quality -- guys back then were adventurers now they're mostly just horny old men.

Edited July 25, 2013 by aTomsLife

[marell]

Yes, because I did. But those who had constructive help and support are very fortunate. However, for some others this post might have been titled "Could you have settled in Thailand despite the help from a woman?"

Edited July 25, 2013 by marell

[iang]

aTomsLife, on 25 Jul 2013 - 20:32, said:

Still, one instance where my girlfriend proved invaluable was when there were massive leaks in my ceiling. I was living in a top floor apartment in a new building and the roof wasn't sealed correctly. It was late in the evening when the rains came, the super had already retired to his apartment, and having her there to call and explain what was happening made everything seem ok. That was during my first year here. Now I speak enough Thai myself and would be able to make that phone call and explain things. But at that time, knowing she could help me like that gave me great peace of mind.

Fon tok, langka rua, hawg biak mak, chewy dai mai?

Edited by AnotherOneAmerican, 39 minutes ago.

I agree with you! Bottom line is LEARN THE LANGUAGE! To hand somebody else the responsibility of communication in the local (foreign/Thai) language is to hand them control. Do so at your peril, although so many seemingly do so willingly! Or through laziness or apathy, I'm not sure?

[fxe1200]

Could you have settled in Thailand without the help from a woman?

What a question...

I settled here eleven years ago and helped two women and still do.

Edited July 25, 2013 by fxe1200

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Second and third point, hardly, except if there is a large age gap between you, then sure. But for those with partners around the same age, this doesn't come into it. It also depends on how the girl dresses, acts etc. Body language is everything.

Fourth...don't quite get, do you mean because of number 1, it means you don't have to deal with somethings, or can pass it off..?

Nope, most Thais will assume any girl with a foreigner is a hooker.

Doesn't matter what their relative ages are or how either of them dresses.

That's just the way Thais think.

Number of guys I meet living in a big house, never go out, wife does everything for them, might as well be back in the USA (or wherever).

Edited July 25, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[i claudius]

I was recently thinking about this too.

I can't actually think of one situation where having a local girl acting as an intermediary for a foreigner is actually useful to the foreigner.

First, it stops you thinking for yourself and learning the language.

Second, they are always seeking personal gain from you (commission for them on everything at the very least, large ticket items put in their name at worst).

Third, all other Thais will assume the girl is/was a sex worker of some kind, so you will be socially disadvantaged (true or not doesn't matter).

Fourth, you are insulated from most of the reality of Thailand, so you are living a complete fantasy life.

Fifth, they will be a drag on your finances, the children that aren't yours are needy, the family hand is always stretched out.

Sixth, they are serving their own best interests, never yours.

Better for a foreigner to deal with things on their own and stand on their own two feet IMHO.

(When was your last holiday in the west where you had everything done for you be a local girl that left school at age 13?)

Why do people generalize? ,firstly our Thai neighbours are what i would call middle class ,my wife in no way looks,behaves or talks like a bar girl(and i am not denigrating them or their husbands) she certainly did not leave school at 13 and i seriously believe none of our neighbours think she ever worked in a bar ,she actually for a time worked for the buisness i ran in BKK and before that worked in her sisters buisiness for many years .

neither she nor her familly are needy she certainly in the 20 years we have been married ,both here and in the UK she has not "served her best interests ,but those of our familly and to some extent my daughters in England. she has also never wanted a commission for anything we have done and i am sure there are many other couples like us ,at least the ones we know are ,you sir not only talk bullshit ,but i presume go around with low class women.and have never met a decent one ,but then for that you have to be decent yourself.

Edited July 25, 2013 by i claudius

[i claudius]

Second and third point, hardly, except if there is a large age gap between you, then sure. But for those with partners around the same age, this doesn't come into it. It also depends on how the girl dresses, acts etc. Body language is everything.

Nope, most Thais will assume any girl with a foreigner is a hooker.

Doesn't matter what their relative ages are or how either of them dresses.

That's just the way Thais think.

bullshit ,

[SteeleJoe]

aTomsLife wrote:

Being self sufficient and well traveled as opposed to not being those things, if not quality, how do such characteristics rate? Nevermind, you're not interested in figuring it out. You just want to agree with someone's ideas without knowing what they mean. Sorry for interrupting.

And strongly suspecting something means you're inclined to believe that such is the case. Don't see how I misquoted you. You're just being specious.

* I like people who are well travelled and self-sufficient. They are not the only people I like nor are they necessarily better than people who can't be described as such but may have many other very fine qualities equally or more admirable.

* I agree with the words posted. I know what they mean - they have a clear meaning that is quite literal - and I don't need to interpret them in order to agree with them nor do I need to use your subjective terms to describe the sort of people who he is referring to.

* Strongly suspecting means "I'm inclined to believe" it is true. It clearly not the same as an absolute declaration that it IS true.

Not sure why you have to be hostile and defensive just because I don't think as you do but...whatever.

rayongchealsea's initial post segues into a diatribe about sexpats, e.g., "love at first blowjob"; that was where I got my context from about quality of expat. I don't think I'm being subjective here; it's obvious what he meant.

I'm not trying to be hostile or defensive toward you. In hindsight it appears if I misunderstood you, it's because you took RC's post out of context by cherry picking his statement: it's quite clear he was inferring quality -- guys back then were adventurers now they're mostly just horny old men.

The subjective part is when you decide a well travelled and self sufficient adventurer type is "higher quality" than someone who comes here because they heard they could get laid cheaply etc. Generally speaking, I (and you) may like the former sort more than the latter - with some exceptions - but that is SUBJECTIVE.

Context? Well I deliberately isolated the part that really resonated with me and that didn't even come close to judging other people but...

I agree with the poster when he speaks of "love at first blowjob" - sometimes it is literally that, I imagine, and I know for sure that some guys lose their heads (ahem) and settle down with the first Thai that they have a great sexual experience with. I also largely agree that those people - and people inclined to be swayed in that manner - are not equipped to live here, do not absorb the culture, live in a dependency bubble created by the partner".

And I agree that often "loss of independence..leads to a lot of trouble financially as well".

And I also agree that if at the end of the day they find happiness good for them, and that many don't.

So...context: I still largely agree. And I still don't have to decide who is "higher quality" or assume that such a thing applies to people or that they should be judged so simplistically and with so little nuance.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Why do people generalize? ,firstly our Thai neighbours are what i would call middle class ,my wife in no way looks,behaves or talks like a bar girl(and i am not denigrating them or their husbands) she certainly did not leave school at 13 and i seriously believe none of our neighbours think she ever worked in a bar ,she actually for a time worked for the buisness i ran in BKK and before that worked in her sisters buisiness for many years .

neither she nor her familly are needy she certainly in the 20 years we have been married ,both here and in the UK she has not "served her best interests ,but those of our familly and to some extent my daughters in England. she has also never wanted a commission for anything we have done and i am sure there are many other couples like us ,at least the ones we know are ,you sir not only talk bullshit ,but i presume go around with low class women.and have never met a decent one ,but then for that you have to be decent yourself.

Do you speak Thai?

After 20 years you should be completely fluent.

Let's have a chat via PM, Thai script only.

Edited July 25, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Bangkokhatter]

Second and third point, hardly, except if there is a large age gap between you, then sure. But for those with partners around the same age, this doesn't come into it. It also depends on how the girl dresses, acts etc. Body language is everything.

Fourth...don't quite get, do you mean because of number 1, it means you don't have to deal with somethings, or can pass it off..?

Nope, most Thais will assume any girl with a foreigner is a hooker.

Doesn't matter what their relative ages are or how either of them dresses.

That's just the way Thais think.

Number of guys I meet living in a big house, never go out, wife does everything for them, might as well be back in the USA (or wherever).

So Tommo let me get this straight, when i join my girlfriend for a night out with her work colleagues, they all secretly think she is a hooker and not a teacher..priceless as usual.

On topic, it certainly makes it easier to settle here with a ladies help, but i do think it's better not to rely on them for everything, where's the fun in that ?

[i claudius]

Why do people generalize? ,firstly our Thai neighbours are what i would call middle class ,my wife in no way looks,behaves or talks like a bar girl(and i am not denigrating them or their husbands) she certainly did not leave school at 13 and i seriously believe none of our neighbours think she ever worked in a bar ,she actually for a time worked for the buisness i ran in BKK and before that worked in her sisters buisiness for many years .

neither she nor her familly are needy she certainly in the 20 years we have been married ,both here and in the UK she has not "served her best interests ,but those of our familly and to some extent my daughters in England. she has also never wanted a commission for anything we have done and i am sure there are many other couples like us ,at least the ones we know are ,you sir not only talk bullshit ,but i presume go around with low class women.and have never met a decent one ,but then for that you have to be decent yourself.

Do you speak Thai?

After 20 years you should be completely fluent.

Let's have a chat via PM, Thai script only.

Its nothing to do with the fact that my Thai is not perfect ,i was talking about the fact that you just generalize about things that you only see from one angle ,Oscar Wilde said "all of us are in the gutter ,but some of us are looking up at the stars" you obviously are not in the second group yet.

[Amras]

Second and third point, hardly, except if there is a large age gap between you, then sure. But for those with partners around the same age, this doesn't come into it. It also depends on how the girl dresses, acts etc. Body language is everything.

Nope, most Thais will assume any girl with a foreigner is a hooker.

Doesn't matter what their relative ages are or how either of them dresses.

That's just the way Thais think.

bullshit ,

Well there you go...I asked my girlfriend...she said...probably around 100%, because Thai people are just stupid. Maybe it's my sense of not wanting to believe how idiotic it is. So I retract my disagreement.

She also said, it's hard as coming from the west, we think of everyone as people, but Thai's will use any reason to class someone lower than them, so they can fill superior.

The issue is more that so many Thai girls are selling themselves especially from Issan and the North Country and hence it perpetuates when these girls find a foreigner (and thus Bangkok girls (even the decent ones) get grouped with them).

So there you go...she's told me this before..I just never fall into the class trap...guess my Australian, people are people (except for Bogans) is too ingrained.

[aTomsLife]

rayongchealsea's initial post segues into a diatribe about sexpats, e.g., "love at first blowjob"; that was where I got my context from about quality of expat. I don't think I'm being subjective here; it's obvious what he meant.

I'm not trying to be hostile or defensive toward you. In hindsight it appears if I misunderstood you, it's because you took RC's post out of context by cherry picking his statement: it's quite clear he was inferring quality -- guys back then were adventurers now they're mostly just horny old men.

The subjective part is when you decide a well travelled and self sufficient adventurer type is "higher quality" than someone who comes here because they heard they could get laid cheaply etc. Generally speaking, I (and you) may like the former sort more than the latter - with some exceptions - but that is SUBJECTIVE.

Context? Well I deliberately isolated the part that really resonated with me and that didn't even come close to judging other people but...

I agree with the poster when he speaks of "love at first blowjob" - sometimes it is literally that, I imagine, and I know for sure that some guys lose their heads (ahem) and settle down with the first Thai that they have a great sexual experience with. I also largely agree that those people - and people inclined to be swayed in that manner - are not equipped to live here, do not absorb the culture, live in a dependency bubble created by the partner".

And I agree that often "loss of independence..leads to a lot of trouble financially as well".

And I also agree that if at the end of the day they find happiness good for them, and that many don't.

So...context: I still largely agree. And I still don't have to decide who is "higher quality" or assume that such a thing applies to people or that they should be judged so simplistically and with so little nuance.

Yes, thank you, I know what subjective means. But I wasn't being subjective about RC's intended meaning. It is clear what he meant with regard to quality, and as you wrote again, it is clear that you agree. I am not talking about the subjectivity of what everyone else thinks. I replied to specific statements made my specific individuals.

Your user name is quite apt, as you're decidedly inflexible. But despite your attempts to play semantics, it's rather transparent which of the two groups is of higher quality in your opinion. In liking his statement and agreeing, you made a judgement, even if now you want to try to take the high road. No need to be defensive about it. And at this point, if you accuse me of being defensive, I'll subjectively assume you're just projecting.

[SteeleJoe]

rayongchealsea's initial post segues into a diatribe about sexpats, e.g., "love at first blowjob"; that was where I got my context from about quality of expat. I don't think I'm being subjective here; it's obvious what he meant.

I'm not trying to be hostile or defensive toward you. In hindsight it appears if I misunderstood you, it's because you took RC's post out of context by cherry picking his statement: it's quite clear he was inferring quality -- guys back then were adventurers now they're mostly just horny old men.

The subjective part is when you decide a well travelled and self sufficient adventurer type is "higher quality" than someone who comes here because they heard they could get laid cheaply etc. Generally speaking, I (and you) may like the former sort more than the latter - with some exceptions - but that is SUBJECTIVE.

Context? Well I deliberately isolated the part that really resonated with me and that didn't even come close to judging other people but...

I agree with the poster when he speaks of "love at first blowjob" - sometimes it is literally that, I imagine, and I know for sure that some guys lose their heads (ahem) and settle down with the first Thai that they have a great sexual experience with. I also largely agree that those people - and people inclined to be swayed in that manner - are not equipped to live here, do not absorb the culture, live in a dependency bubble created by the partner".

And I agree that often "loss of independence..leads to a lot of trouble financially as well".

And I also agree that if at the end of the day they find happiness good for them, and that many don't.

So...context: I still largely agree. And I still don't have to decide who is "higher quality" or assume that such a thing applies to people or that they should be judged so simplistically and with so little nuance.

Yes, thank you, I know what subjective means. But I wasn't being subjective about RC's intended meaning. It is clear what he meant with regard to quality, and as you wrote again, it is clear that you agree. I am not talking about the subjectivity of what everyone else thinks. I replied to specific statements made my specific individuals.

Your user name is quite apt, as you're decidedly inflexible. But despite your attempts to play semantics, it's rather transparent which of the two groups is of higher quality in your opinion. In liking his statement and agreeing, you made a judgement, even if now you want to try to take the high road. No need to be defensive about it. And at this point, if you accuse me of being defensive, I'll subjectively assume you're just projecting.

Wow.

You simply refuse to believe others don't think in the same way you do.

[Amras]

Why do people generalize? ,firstly our Thai neighbours are what i would call middle class ,my wife in no way looks,behaves or talks like a bar girl(and i am not denigrating them or their husbands) she certainly did not leave school at 13 and i seriously believe none of our neighbours think she ever worked in a bar ,she actually for a time worked for the buisness i ran in BKK and before that worked in her sisters buisiness for many years .

neither she nor her familly are needy she certainly in the 20 years we have been married ,both here and in the UK she has not "served her best interests ,but those of our familly and to some extent my daughters in England. she has also never wanted a commission for anything we have done and i am sure there are many other couples like us ,at least the ones we know are ,you sir not only talk bullshit ,but i presume go around with low class women.and have never met a decent one ,but then for that you have to be decent yourself.

Do you speak Thai?

After 20 years you should be completely fluent.

Let's have a chat via PM, Thai script only.

Its nothing to do with the fact that my Thai is not perfect ,i was talking about the fact that you just generalize about things that you only see from one angle ,Oscar Wilde said "all of us are in the gutter ,but some of us are looking up at the stars" you obviously are not in the second group yet.

I've re-thought about AOA posts...and I think you need to take into perspective he is talking about people that don't know you or your wife (or anyone's partners). Of course people that know your wife are unlikely to assume she was ever a bar girl, but a stranger that passed you on in the mall, at tesco etc, are likely to assume that (after a nice discussion with my gf).

It's sad but true....people who know you have a formed opinion, meeting a westerner is unlikely to make them suddenly think that she worked in a bar. But people that don't know her well, probably a different story.

[aTomsLife]

rayongchealsea's initial post segues into a diatribe about sexpats, e.g., "love at first blowjob"; that was where I got my context from about quality of expat. I don't think I'm being subjective here; it's obvious what he meant.

I'm not trying to be hostile or defensive toward you. In hindsight it appears if I misunderstood you, it's because you took RC's post out of context by cherry picking his statement: it's quite clear he was inferring quality -- guys back then were adventurers now they're mostly just horny old men.

The subjective part is when you decide a well travelled and self sufficient adventurer type is "higher quality" than someone who comes here because they heard they could get laid cheaply etc. Generally speaking, I (and you) may like the former sort more than the latter - with some exceptions - but that is SUBJECTIVE.

Context? Well I deliberately isolated the part that really resonated with me and that didn't even come close to judging other people but...

I agree with the poster when he speaks of "love at first blowjob" - sometimes it is literally that, I imagine, and I know for sure that some guys lose their heads (ahem) and settle down with the first Thai that they have a great sexual experience with. I also largely agree that those people - and people inclined to be swayed in that manner - are not equipped to live here, do not absorb the culture, live in a dependency bubble created by the partner".

And I agree that often "loss of independence..leads to a lot of trouble financially as well".

And I also agree that if at the end of the day they find happiness good for them, and that many don't.

So...context: I still largely agree. And I still don't have to decide who is "higher quality" or assume that such a thing applies to people or that they should be judged so simplistically and with so little nuance.

Yes, thank you, I know what subjective means. But I wasn't being subjective about RC's intended meaning. It is clear what he meant with regard to quality, and as you wrote again, it is clear that you agree. I am not talking about the subjectivity of what everyone else thinks. I replied to specific statements made my specific individuals.

Your user name is quite apt, as you're decidedly inflexible. But despite your attempts to play semantics, it's rather transparent which of the two groups is of higher quality in your opinion. In liking his statement and agreeing, you made a judgement, even if now you want to try to take the high road. No need to be defensive about it. And at this point, if you accuse me of being defensive, I'll subjectively assume you're just projecting.

Wow.

You simply refuse to believe others don't think in the same way you do.

You simply refuse to believe what you yourself believe.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Why do people generalize? ,firstly our Thai neighbours are what i would call middle class ,my wife in no way looks,behaves or talks like a bar girl(and i am not denigrating them or their husbands) she certainly did not leave school at 13 and i seriously believe none of our neighbours think she ever worked in a bar ,she actually for a time worked for the buisness i ran in BKK and before that worked in her sisters buisiness for many years .

neither she nor her familly are needy she certainly in the 20 years we have been married ,both here and in the UK she has not "served her best interests ,but those of our familly and to some extent my daughters in England. she has also never wanted a commission for anything we have done and i am sure there are many other couples like us ,at least the ones we know are ,you sir not only talk bullshit ,but i presume go around with low class women.and have never met a decent one ,but then for that you have to be decent yourself.

Do you speak Thai?

After 20 years you should be completely fluent.

Let's have a chat via PM, Thai script only.

Its nothing to do with the fact that my Thai is not perfect ,i was talking about the fact that you just generalize about things that you only see from one angle ,Oscar Wilde said "all of us are in the gutter ,but some of us are looking up at the stars" you obviously are not in the second group yet.

So you don't read or write Thai then?

And your speaking level, beginner, intermediate, advanced, fluent?

20 years is a long time to not learn your wife's language.

[Amras]

Second and third point, hardly, except if there is a large age gap between you, then sure. But for those with partners around the same age, this doesn't come into it. It also depends on how the girl dresses, acts etc. Body language is everything.

Fourth...don't quite get, do you mean because of number 1, it means you don't have to deal with somethings, or can pass it off..?

Nope, most Thais will assume any girl with a foreigner is a hooker.

Doesn't matter what their relative ages are or how either of them dresses.

That's just the way Thais think.

Number of guys I meet living in a big house, never go out, wife does everything for them, might as well be back in the USA (or wherever).

So Tommo let me get this straight, when i join my girlfriend for a night out with her work colleagues, they all secretly think she is a hooker and not a teacher..priceless as usual.

On topic, it certainly makes it easier to settle here with a ladies help, but i do think it's better not to rely on them for everything, where's the fun in that ?

Of course they don't..they know her. But other people in the bar, that don't know her, that were Thai's are highly likely too, as an automatic assumption.

Apparently it was a significant hurdle my gf had to get over when we started dating (as she only had asian partners before, malaysian, singaporian etc). As she knew what people would be thinking. But she got over it and realised she can't do anything about it. Here friends though, of course they never think that, because they KNOW HER.

[i claudius]

Why do people generalize? ,firstly our Thai neighbours are what i would call middle class ,my wife in no way looks,behaves or talks like a bar girl(and i am not denigrating them or their husbands) she certainly did not leave school at 13 and i seriously believe none of our neighbours think she ever worked in a bar ,she actually for a time worked for the buisness i ran in BKK and before that worked in her sisters buisiness for many years .

neither she nor her familly are needy she certainly in the 20 years we have been married ,both here and in the UK she has not "served her best interests ,but those of our familly and to some extent my daughters in England. she has also never wanted a commission for anything we have done and i am sure there are many other couples like us ,at least the ones we know are ,you sir not only talk bullshit ,but i presume go around with low class women.and have never met a decent one ,but then for that you have to be decent yourself.

Do you speak Thai?

After 20 years you should be completely fluent.

Let's have a chat via PM, Thai script only.

Its nothing to do with the fact that my Thai is not perfect ,i was talking about the fact that you just generalize about things that you only see from one angle ,Oscar Wilde said "all of us are in the gutter ,but some of us are looking up at the stars" you obviously are not in the second group yet.

So you don't read or write Thai then?

And your speaking level, beginner, intermediate, advanced, fluent?

20 years is a long time to not learn your wife's language.

Go away and play ,you obviously are to stupid to know what i am talking about .

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Of course they don't..they know her. But other people in the bar, that don't know her, that were Thai's are highly likely too, as an automatic assumption.

Apparently it was a significant hurdle my gf had to get over when we started dating (as she only had asian partners before, malaysian, singaporian etc). As she knew what people would be thinking. But she got over it and realised she can't do anything about it. Here friends though, of course they never think that, because they KNOW HER.

Totally right.

Most of the interactions a foreigner does via his 'female friend' are with strangers.

Nearly all the Thai strangers will assume she is a hooker, so you won't gain any advantage from the interactions.

Edited July 25, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Go away and play ,you obviously are to stupid to know what i am talking about .

Perhaps it would help me to understand you if we could talk in Thai.

But apparently you can't (after 20 years), which is EXACTLY what I am talking about.

[i claudius]

Why do people generalize? ,firstly our Thai neighbours are what i would call middle class ,my wife in no way looks,behaves or talks like a bar girl(and i am not denigrating them or their husbands) she certainly did not leave school at 13 and i seriously believe none of our neighbours think she ever worked in a bar ,she actually for a time worked for the buisness i ran in BKK and before that worked in her sisters buisiness for many years .

neither she nor her familly are needy she certainly in the 20 years we have been married ,both here and in the UK she has not "served her best interests ,but those of our familly and to some extent my daughters in England. she has also never wanted a commission for anything we have done and i am sure there are many other couples like us ,at least the ones we know are ,you sir not only talk bullshit ,but i presume go around with low class women.and have never met a decent one ,but then for that you have to be decent yourself.

Do you speak Thai?

After 20 years you should be completely fluent.

Let's have a chat via PM, Thai script only.

Its nothing to do with the fact that my Thai is not perfect ,i was talking about the fact that you just generalize about things that you only see from one angle ,Oscar Wilde said "all of us are in the gutter ,but some of us are looking up at the stars" you obviously are not in the second group yet.

I've re-thought about AOA posts...and I think you need to take into perspective he is talking about people that don't know you or your wife (or anyone's partners). Of course people that know your wife are unlikely to assume she was ever a bar girl, but a stranger that passed you on in the mall, at tesco etc, are likely to assume that (after a nice discussion with my gf).

It's sad but true....people who know you have a formed opinion, meeting a westerner is unlikely to make them suddenly think that she worked in a bar. But people that don't know her well, probably a different story.

Personally after 20 years i do not give a hoot what people think ,if they are to blinkered to see then its up to them ,who cares? they are just people who mean nothing to me , i spoke about it to my wife years ago and her answer was so what ,its their problem ,not ours.

[Amras]

Of course they don't..they know her. But other people in the bar, that don't know her, that were Thai's are highly likely too, as an automatic assumption.

Apparently it was a significant hurdle my gf had to get over when we started dating (as she only had asian partners before, malaysian, singaporian etc). As she knew what people would be thinking. But she got over it and realised she can't do anything about it. Here friends though, of course they never think that, because they KNOW HER.

Exactly right.

Most of the interactions a foreigner does via his 'female friend' are with strangers.

Nearly all the Thai strangers will assume she is a hooker, so you won't gain any advantage from the interactions.

I think that depends though. Sometimes we get further with my girlfriend doing something than I could, because my Thai is, well limited. They can't do the...blank, I don't understand what you are talking about...stare that they can with a foreigner. So I think it greatly depends on the situation. In some cases you would gain an advantage compared to not being able to communicate with them at all. Now, if you can speak reasonable Thai, of course this is different then.

[aTomsLife]

Why do people generalize? ,firstly our Thai neighbours are what i would call middle class ,my wife in no way looks,behaves or talks like a bar girl(and i am not denigrating them or their husbands) she certainly did not leave school at 13 and i seriously believe none of our neighbours think she ever worked in a bar ,she actually for a time worked for the buisness i ran in BKK and before that worked in her sisters buisiness for many years .

neither she nor her familly are needy she certainly in the 20 years we have been married ,both here and in the UK she has not "served her best interests ,but those of our familly and to some extent my daughters in England. she has also never wanted a commission for anything we have done and i am sure there are many other couples like us ,at least the ones we know are ,you sir not only talk bullshit ,but i presume go around with low class women.and have never met a decent one ,but then for that you have to be decent yourself.

Do you speak Thai?

After 20 years you should be completely fluent.

Let's have a chat via PM, Thai script only.

Its nothing to do with the fact that my Thai is not perfect ,i was talking about the fact that you just generalize about things that you only see from one angle ,Oscar Wilde said "all of us are in the gutter ,but some of us are looking up at the stars" you obviously are not in the second group yet.

So you don't read or write Thai then?

And your speaking level, beginner, intermediate, advanced, fluent?

20 years is a long time to not learn your wife's language.

Agreed. People love to get on that soapbox and rail about how much they love Thailand and respect Thais, but their actions don't back up their beliefs.

Anyone who truly regards Thailand and wishes to understand her, would have made a supreme effort to learn the language through and through. Hard to establish credibility after living here 20 years and not knowing the language. How much can a person respect Thais and Thailand with this being the case? Really, there's no excuse.

What if a Thai lived in the west and still couldn't read and write English, much less speak it properly -- how would she be viewed? Why should any westerner be exempt from this same reasoning?

[Suradit69]

Answer to question in Topic Title:

Apparently I could, because I did.

I was 19 and knew no one here...

Likewise.

I was not 19 at the time but knew people here who were of some assistance, but not essential.

I can't even remember being 19, but am pretty sure I was once, although I suspect at 19 I would have made a real hash out of settling in Thailand.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Suradit69

[Amras]

I've re-thought about AOA posts...and I think you need to take into perspective he is talking about people that don't know you or your wife (or anyone's partners). Of course people that know your wife are unlikely to assume she was ever a bar girl, but a stranger that passed you on in the mall, at tesco etc, are likely to assume that (after a nice discussion with my gf).

It's sad but true....people who know you have a formed opinion, meeting a westerner is unlikely to make them suddenly think that she worked in a bar. But people that don't know her well, probably a different story.

Personally after 20 years i do not give a hoot what people think ,if they are to blinkered to see then its up to them ,who cares? they are just people who mean nothing to me , i spoke about it to my wife years ago and her answer was so what ,its their problem ,not ours.

True, and something we don't worry about (now). But the fact remains that they do think like that. And it can be especially hard for a girl when she starts dating a foreigner for the first time to be pigeonholed by her own fellow Thais.