Preaching Of Non-buddhist Religions In Thailand

[Darknight]

I have been a Buddhist for 11 years but this is my first post on this Buddhist forum. I am concerned at what I call the invasion of non Buddhist religions into Buddhist countries like Thailand. In particular the likes of christian missionaries which set up schools with the view of attracting vunerable Thais and forcing christianity on them.

Does anyone in the forum have any similar concerns or views?

As Bronco said : Why as buddhist of 11 years should it bother you ?

The only question you should ask yourself is: why do i view other religions as "invading" ...

You should have realized after 11 years already the there is no good or evil, no right or wrong path.

Maybe these people "NEED" to be "converted" in their path of life. Who are you to decide. Why do you have a pre-conception of them receiving "wrong doing".

Best to meditate for a while on ..... "Change"

[elkangorito]

I have been a Buddhist for 11 years but this is my first post on this Buddhist forum. I am concerned at what I call the invasion of non Buddhist religions into Buddhist countries like Thailand. In particular the likes of christian missionaries which set up schools with the view of attracting vunerable Thais and forcing christianity on them.

Does anyone in the forum have any similar concerns or views?

....but Jesus said only through him can you enter the kingdom of heaven!

How is it known that the Christ said this? I would suggest that the Holy Bible is simply a collection of stories & letters, written by MEN & intended for specific groups of people...not the whole human race. I do not believe for 1 second that anyone transcribed exactly what the Christ said. I think that the Holy Bible is horribly misinterpreted. It sickens me that MEN can argue about a point of LOVE for the ultimate egotistical goal of power. I'm sure that the Christ/Buddha would never have wanted this but the ego has a way of distorting the real TRUTH in exchange for personal gain. This action affects many people from many religions. This is simply one of the 'human conditions'.

Edited April 13, 2006 by elkangorito

[wolf5370]

I don't think any Holy Book is a true representation of the 'holy' person's words, thoughts or deeds. The Bible NT (Christian) was written from 50 year AD on and is biased towards the Romans who were the super-power then. The Buddhist scriptures (Sutras etc) where written down after Buddhas death by his followers. The sdame is probably true of all 'holy books'.

However, all these writings can be read with an open mind. Reading between the lines and ignoring the historic/political claptrap, the messages are good. As Iron Mainden said "They missed out what I said like I never spoke;They choose what they wanna hear - don't tell a lie;They just leave out the truth as they're watching you die" (Lyrics to Holy Smoke below)

I think missionaries have tried to introduce religion to Thailand/Siam/LaNa/SukhoThai/etc since them found a way of getting here. I remember reading a Thai history book (yep the do exist) which covered a LaNa King who had a Moore as a senior advisor (possibly even a Prime Minister) in his court who believed the King was going to convert his country. Of course, the whilley King never did, but it kept the Moores at bay! Most Thais that I know are happy in their easy-go-lucky religion (part Buddhist/part animist) and so called organised religions have little to offer them - what they do have will be greatly appreciated - the rest will be dropped as soon as the missionary's back is turned.

I like freedom of ideas, and as long as there is no enforcement, then I am all for Missionaries. Look at Iran and other countries where it is illegal to teach or follow other religions (conversions can lead to death sentances for nationals etc) and look at a bleak and uneducated people who have no basis of understanding of foreign culture - easy to believe the world is evil if that's all you are taught. The

Franciscan Monks used to say "Give me a boy for the first 5 years of his life and I'll show you the man"

Lenin reworded it to: "Give me a child for the first five years of his life and he will be mine forever. "

Lincoln said: "The philosophy of the schoolroom in one generation will be the philosophy of governance in the next. We reject established religion and state-controlled press in our nation yet the single greatest guarantee of those two evils is government education. "

Believe in me - send no money

Died on the cross, that ain't funny

But my so called friends they're making me a joke

They missed out what I said like I never spoke

They choose what they wanna hear - don't tell a lie

They just leave out the truth as they're watching you die

Saving your soul by taking your money

Flies around shit, bees around honey

chorus

Holy Smoke Holy Smoke, plenty bad preachers for

The Devil to stoke

Feed'em in feet first this is no joke

This is thirsty work making Holy Smoke

making Holy Smoke

Jimmy Reptile and all his friends

Say their gonna be with you at the end

Burning records burning books

Holy soldiers, Nazi looks

Crocodile smiles, just wait a while

Till the TV queen gets her make-up clean

I've lived in filth, I've lived in sin

And I still smell cleaner than the shit you're in

repeat chorus

Holy Smoke - smells good

They ain't religious but they ain't no fools

When Noah built his Cadillac it was cool

Two by two they're still going down

And the satellite circus just left town

I think they're strange and when they're dead

They can have a Lincoln for their bed

Friend of the president trick of the tail

Now they ain't got a prayer 100 years in jail

repeat chorus

Holy Smoke - hah

[elkangorito]

I don't think any Holy Book is a true representation of the 'holy' person's words, thoughts or deeds. The Bible NT (Christian) was written from 50 year AD on and is biased towards the Romans who were the super-power then. The Buddhist scriptures (Sutras etc) where written down after Buddhas death by his followers. The sdame is probably true of all 'holy books'.

However, all these writings can be read with an open mind. Reading between the lines and ignoring the historic/political claptrap, the messages are good. As Iron Mainden said "They missed out what I said like I never spoke;They choose what they wanna hear - don't tell a lie;They just leave out the truth as they're watching you die" (Lyrics to Holy Smoke below)

I think missionaries have tried to introduce religion to Thailand/Siam/LaNa/SukhoThai/etc since them found a way of getting here. I remember reading a Thai history book (yep the do exist) which covered a LaNa King who had a Moore as a senior advisor (possibly even a Prime Minister) in his court who believed the King was going to convert his country. Of course, the whilley King never did, but it kept the Moores at bay! Most Thais that I know are happy in their easy-go-lucky religion (part Buddhist/part animist) and so called organised religions have little to offer them - what they do have will be greatly appreciated - the rest will be dropped as soon as the missionary's back is turned.

I like freedom of ideas, and as long as there is no enforcement, then I am all for Missionaries. Look at Iran and other countries where it is illegal to teach or follow other religions (conversions can lead to death sentances for nationals etc) and look at a bleak and uneducated people who have no basis of understanding of foreign culture - easy to believe the world is evil if that's all you are taught. The

Franciscan Monks used to say "Give me a boy for the first 5 years of his life and I'll show you the man"

Lenin reworded it to: "Give me a child for the first five years of his life and he will be mine forever. "

Lincoln said: "The philosophy of the schoolroom in one generation will be the philosophy of governance in the next. We reject established religion and state-controlled press in our nation yet the single greatest guarantee of those two evils is government education. "

Believe in me - send no money

Died on the cross, that ain't funny

But my so called friends they're making me a joke

They missed out what I said like I never spoke

They choose what they wanna hear - don't tell a lie

They just leave out the truth as they're watching you die

Saving your soul by taking your money

Flies around shit, bees around honey

chorus

Holy Smoke Holy Smoke, plenty bad preachers for

The Devil to stoke

Feed'em in feet first this is no joke

This is thirsty work making Holy Smoke

making Holy Smoke

Jimmy Reptile and all his friends

Say their gonna be with you at the end

Burning records burning books

Holy soldiers, Nazi looks

Crocodile smiles, just wait a while

Till the TV queen gets her make-up clean

I've lived in filth, I've lived in sin

And I still smell cleaner than the shit you're in

repeat chorus

Holy Smoke - smells good

They ain't religious but they ain't no fools

When Noah built his Cadillac it was cool

Two by two they're still going down

And the satellite circus just left town

I think they're strange and when they're dead

They can have a Lincoln for their bed

Friend of the president trick of the tail

Now they ain't got a prayer 100 years in jail

repeat chorus

Holy Smoke - hah

Catholicism says, "Give me a 7 year old & I'll give you a Catholic".

[sabaijai]

I think we all agree that forcing one's religion on someone else, whether through economic coercion or through more brutal means, is not a good thing. Likewise any open society should allow people to express their beliefs and to offer teachings to people who might be interested. Hence barring missionaries is not a very nice thing either and certainly goes against the normally healthy canonical scepticism we find in Buddhist writings.

Here is a Wikipedia article that talks about Buddhist proselytism during the Ashokan era. Even today one can find Buddhist sects that proselytise to the exclusion of other belief systems, eg Nichiren Shoshu in Japan and the Dhammakaya movement here in Thailand.

As for children being easy to mould, that would be true for any belief system, including Buddhism.

If it doesn't seem that anyone has anything new and meaningful to add, I'll close this topic. It would be best to stick to the facts, and leave out comments like 'pathetic' or 'sick' with relation to other religions.

[robitusson]

I have been a Buddhist for 11 years but this is my first post on this Buddhist forum. I am concerned at what I call the invasion of non Buddhist religions into Buddhist countries like Thailand. In particular the likes of christian missionaries which set up schools with the view of attracting vunerable Thais and forcing christianity on them.

Does anyone in the forum have any similar concerns or views?

....but Jesus said only through him can you enter the kingdom of heaven!

How is it known that the Christ said this? I would suggest that the Holy Bible is simply a collection of stories & letters, written by MEN & intended for specific groups of people...not the whole human race. I do not believe for 1 second that anyone transcribed exactly what the Christ said. I think that the Holy Bible is horribly misinterpreted. It sickens me that MEN can argue about a point of LOVE for the ultimate egotistical goal of power. I'm sure that the Christ/Buddha would never have wanted this but the ego has a way of distorting the real TRUTH in exchange for personal gain. This action affects many people from many religions. This is simply one of the 'human conditions'.

The Dhammapada could be subject to the same scrutiny and misinterpretations.

There's room enough in Thailand for both religions, all religions in fact.

[Donz]

I stoped reading the bible when one guy was said too be 479 years old.

Now how dumb was that.

Im no buddist but i think its a good religion and i wont be one until i know more

[udon]

I stoped reading the bible when one guy was said too be 479 years old.

Now how dumb was that.

Im no buddist but i think its a good religion and i wont be one until i know more

What was the bloke's name?

[Anthony_Mustang]

Methuselah

[Donz]

I think there was a few of them with funny ages, which made me stop reading it, Ive read some of the Koran and its pretty much the same as the bible, people with funny ages as well.

I havent actually read any budism stuff just heard about it from my fiancee which ive asked questions and I think it makes alot of sence so far.

Scientology ive looked at, but i dismissed it after knowing that they cant get the flu after reaching some beleif level. Aparently Tom cruise cant getthe flu and some cancers which was funny.

Hindu also sounds interesting, but i will read more into it.

Jahova witness just give me the wallies because they knock on my door trying to give me this book then after i grab it they ask for payment of this book.

[nokia]

Despite the advances in medical technology & DNA, many incurable diseases like cancer,HIV etc still exist today. Instead, strange new diseases/viruses like SARs & bird flu are appearing daily, capable of wiping out entire populations. With high levels of pesticides in greens, and meat from genetically modified animals, will human lifespan outlast the previous generation?

---

Zim women have shortest lifespan

Fri, 07 Apr 2006

Life expectancy for women in Zimbabwe has plummeted to just 34 years, by far the lowest in the world according to data released on Friday by the World Health Organisation.

Women in the southern African nation and in nearby Swaziland are the only ones in the world who are not expected to live into their forties, the 2006 World Health Report indicated.

HIV/Aids

Both countries are among the hardest hit by HIV/Aids.

Male life expectancy at birth in Zimbabwe was 37 years in 2004, the most recent reference year used for all 192 countries in the report.

While the prospects for men were unchanged in Zimbabwe, life expectancy for women had dropped by two years in the space of 12 months.

Swazi men live shortest

Swaziland offered the lowest life expectancy for men — 36 years — of the states included in the WHO indicators, and 39 years for women.

The figures were nonetheless an improvement on the 33 years recorded for men and 36 for women in Swaziland a year earlier.

By contrast, Japan offered the healthiest outlook for its citizens, the WHO data indicated.

Life expectancy for men there was 79 years, while newborn girls could on average aim to live for 86 years. Both figures have improved by a year over the last WHO report.

---

Buddhism declares that in this world there is nothing that is fixed and permanent. Every thing is subject to change and alteration. "Decay is inherent in all component things," declared the Buddha and his followers accepted that existence was a flux, and a continuous becoming.

According to the teachings of the Buddha, life is comparable to a river. It is a progressive moment, a successive series of different moments, joining together to give the impression of one continuous flow. It moves from cause to cause, effect to effect, one point to another, one state of existence to another, giving an outward impression that it is one continuous and unified movement, where as in reality it is not. The river of yesterday is not the same as the river of today. The river of this moment is not going to be the same as the river of the next moment. So does life. It changes continuously, becomes something or the other from moment to moment.

[thaibebop]

I stoped reading the bible when one guy was said too be 479 years old.

Now how dumb was that.

Im no buddist but i think its a good religion and i wont be one until i know more

I never liked Lott. That part of the bible really bothers me.

[udon]

I stoped reading the bible when one guy was said too be 479 years old.

Now how dumb was that.

Im no buddist but i think its a good religion and i wont be one until i know more

I never liked Lott. That part of the bible really bothers me.

and the parting of the red sea..... Hmmm. A bit hard to swallow, too.

I do like the word, "begat" though!

[Guest endure]

Catholicism says, "Give me a 7 year old & I'll give you a Catholic".

Er, not so. It was actually the Jesuits who said: 'Give me the child until he is 7 and I'll give you the man'.

[boppia]

If we all are on our own paths to enlightenment then I guess we shouldn't worry. Eventually (with endless time)we will all end up closer to something.

We're just looking at now. Now comes and goes.

Personally, I feel Buddhism is doomed for the short term. It can't compete with Amway's high pressure sales and thrilling seminars. All Buddhists can do is carry their seeds and plant them as they go. Some will grow. People change.

But then again there are new sects of "Buddhism" which the traditional Thai path doesn't completely agree with. The golden temple in Pratumthani has a different way of attracting followers. Who knows where things are going?

[wolf5370]

Personally, I feel Buddhism is doomed for the short term

I disagree. In the West it has been reported that Buddhism is on the rise - in some countries - like the UK and US - that Buddhism is the fastest growing religion.

The ages in the bible are not real ages, they are symbolic. Ancient Hebrews used numbers to mean different things - 40 basically meant a long time - 40 days the rain fell during the floods - Noah, 40 years Moses wandered in the dessert, 40 days Jesus and John the Baptist did their individual walk in the wilderness. Noone knows how old Adam and Eve were - they didn't know death until they bit the fruit and were punished. The OT is mostly legends and allogorical myth in my opinion - mixed with a bit of history.

[Donz]

Actually Islam is the fastest growing religion, But i dont like it as there prophet married a 7 year old or something.

What also turns me of christianity is that Benny Hinn fella.

He supposley only heals the rich and charges alot to attend his shows.

Also see fottage him healing entire communities in Africa which look like BS to me.

[nokia]

What also turns me of christianity is that Benny Hinn fella.

He supposley only heals the rich and charges alot to attend his shows.

Also see fottage him healing entire communities in Africa which look like BS to me.

There are always true & false adherents in every religion. The true believers vs the false professors. The liberals, conservatives, religious/ritualistic & the moderates abound in every religion. Fundamentalist religions place their priority on doctrinal conformity, rather than love, compassion and service.

Benny Hinn looks like more a con-artist/charlatan to me... That's my personal opinion. Try asking him to heal entire leprosy/HIV/blind communities for FREE, without collecting any offering... Religion is supposed to be free, without cost or charge, but unfortunately religion today has become like American Express, "Membership has its privileges" and membership is never Free.

Middle Way: The path in life between extremes.

[suegha]

I stoped reading the bible when one guy was said too be 479 years old.

Now how dumb was that.

Why should somwone living a long time sound dumb? Can you tell me why we seldom make a 100 these days? No reason for it?

Methuselah

Methuselah is the oldest recorded person at 969 years of age.

Although, as stated above, some numbers in the bible have spiritual signifigance, many numbers are literal. Ages are one such example.

Put simply, there were a few reasons why people lived longer. All the people who lived several 100s of years lived pre-flood, the earth was a defferent place, one major difference we no direct sunshine, a major cause of aging. Post flood the ages got shorter and shorter until the age we have today is stated. (I have simplified this)

Also, the people who lived 100s of years were at the 'top' of the gene pool and so lived longer, neither had they any of the diseases we can die from. (once again I have simplified this)

Bible study is a big subject, If you come across a detail that 'jarrs', keep reading, the whole thing will hang together and make sense.

[suegha]

The ages in the bible are not real ages, they are symbolic. Ancient Hebrews used numbers to mean different things - 40 basically meant a long time - 40 days the rain fell during the floods - Noah, 40 years Moses wandered in the dessert, 40 days Jesus and John the Baptist did their individual walk in the wilderness. Noone knows how old Adam and Eve were - they didn't know death until they bit the fruit and were punished. The OT is mostly legends and allogorical myth in my opinion - mixed with a bit of history.

Although I dealt with some of the above in my previous post, I want to add that I respect peoples opinions and we are all entitled to our own view of things. However, I do not think that the OT is 'mostly legends and allogorical myth'. I take it to be truth! It is a life time study, and it takes a desire for the truth not what some religious body teaches. I have no time for 'organised' religions, only bible truth.

[Tippaporn]

I have been a Buddhist for 11 years but this is my first post on this Buddhist forum. I am concerned at what I call the invasion of non Buddhist religions into Buddhist countries like Thailand. In particular the likes of christian missionaries which set up schools with the view of attracting vunerable Thais and forcing christianity on them.

Does anyone in the forum have any similar concerns or views?

As Bronco said : Why as buddhist of 11 years should it bother you ?

The only question you should ask yourself is: why do i view other religions as "invading" ...

You should have realized after 11 years already the there is no good or evil, no right or wrong path.

Maybe these people "NEED" to be "converted" in their path of life. Who are you to decide. Why do you have a pre-conception of them receiving "wrong doing".

Best to meditate for a while on ..... "Change"

Best response yet by Darknight. Everyone is exactly where they're supposed to be at any given time. Where someone else is at or why is not for you to know; and especially not to judge. Live your life and mai pen rai.

[elkangorito]

Judgement is very much a 'human condition'.

On the other hand, FORCING a judgement (like the "moral" christian laws upon western society) is, I think, dispicable. This type of thing becomes "law" & therefore there are limited choices, like going to gaol.

On the other hand, if judgement is kept to oneself, the only nasty thing that can happen is a 'disagreement' of what happened to the people being judged.

I still think that the general interpretation of the christian religion is 'sick' & misguided. My only hope is that Buddhism does not follow the same trend. By the way, I am not FORCING my ideas as I have no way of making them "law". Nor do I wish to make it "law".

[robitusson]

Judgement is very much a 'human condition'.

On the other hand, FORCING a judgement (like the "moral" christian laws upon western society) is, I think, dispicable. This type of thing becomes "law" & therefore there are limited choices, like going to gaol.

On the other hand, if judgement is kept to oneself, the only nasty thing that can happen is a 'disagreement' of what happened to the people being judged.

I still think that the general interpretation of the christian religion is 'sick' & misguided. My only hope is that Buddhism does not follow the same trend. By the way, I am not FORCING my ideas as I have no way of making them "law". Nor do I wish to make it "law".

You're giving the impression that you don't want Christianity in Thailand.

[Donz]

I have no problems with mussies, christians, catholics etc. Just I dont believe a book claiming people are 900 years old no matter how good the earth once was. To me it sounds like myth, but i will read them all, Koran, bible etc in time and see if I can just ignore the age and read it.

Posible the ages were wrong as the bible is a few thousand years old and could be a translation error.

[suegha]

I have no problems with mussies, christians, catholics etc. Just I dont believe a book claiming people are 900 years old no matter how good the earth once was. To me it sounds like myth, but i will read them all, Koran, bible etc in time and see if I can just ignore the age and read it.

Posible the ages were wrong as the bible is a few thousand years old and could be a translation error.

No translation error with the ages - that's for sure. You can either believe it or not, but he translation is spot on. People still got married in their 20s and 30s but lived to great ages. they also had huge number of children. Post flood the ages dropped dramatically to more or less what we have now.

There's a Psalm that say we will make it to 70-80, or three score years and ten, in the King James version.

Whatever you do keep reading it...

[sabaijai]

I have no problems with mussies, christians, catholics etc. Just I dont believe a book claiming people are 900 years old no matter how good the earth once was. To me it sounds like myth, but i will read them all, Koran, bible etc in time and see if I can just ignore the age and read it.

Posible the ages were wrong as the bible is a few thousand years old and could be a translation error.

No translation error with the ages - that's for sure. You can either believe it or not, but he translation is spot on. People still got married in their 20s and 30s but lived to great ages. they also had huge number of children. Post flood the ages dropped dramatically to more or less what we have now.

There's a Psalm that say we will make it to 70-80, or three score years and ten, in the King James version.

Whatever you do keep reading it...

Academic evidence overwhelmingly suggests that all texts become increasingly subject to interpretaion and translation difficulties over time, given natural semantic shifts within and across languages. Given the wide variety of interpretations of the Bible, Koran, Tipitika, etc, 100% certainty seems statistically unlikely.

However even if the translation of these ages are correct, there's stil the issue of whether the claim is mythological or not. I've heard that many of the stories in the Bible can be traced directly to Egyptian and other mythologies, for example.

[thaibebop]

I have no problems with mussies, christians, catholics etc. Just I dont believe a book claiming people are 900 years old no matter how good the earth once was. To me it sounds like myth, but i will read them all, Koran, bible etc in time and see if I can just ignore the age and read it.

Posible the ages were wrong as the bible is a few thousand years old and could be a translation error.

No translation error with the ages - that's for sure. You can either believe it or not, but he translation is spot on. People still got married in their 20s and 30s but lived to great ages. they also had huge number of children. Post flood the ages dropped dramatically to more or less what we have now.

There's a Psalm that say we will make it to 70-80, or three score years and ten, in the King James version.

Whatever you do keep reading it...

Academic evidence overwhelmingly suggests that all texts become increasingly subject to interpretaion and translation difficulties over time, given natural semantic shifts within and across languages. Given the wide variety of interpretations of the Bible, Koran, Tipitika, etc, 100% certainty seems statistically unlikely.

However even if the translation of these ages are correct, there's stil the issue of whether the claim is mythological or not. I've heard that many of the stories in the Bible can be traced directly to Egyptian and other mythologies, for example.

Focus more on the messages then the details. The details is the religious part that gets people into trouble and killed.

[solo siam]

Academic evidence overwhelmingly suggests that all texts become increasingly subject to interpretaion and translation difficulties over time, given natural semantic shifts within and across languages. Given the wide variety of interpretations of the Bible, Koran, Tipitika, etc, 100% certainty seems statistically unlikely.

However even if the translation of these ages are correct, there's stil the issue of whether the claim is mythological or not. I've heard that many of the stories in the Bible can be traced directly to Egyptian and other mythologies, for example.

It was my belief that the Koran wasn't open to ANY interpretation.

[nokia]

However even if the translation of these ages are correct, there's stil the issue of whether the claim is mythological or not. I've heard that many of the stories in the Bible can be traced directly to Egyptian and other mythologies, for example.

Mythology or actual Facts & History?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/programmes/m...e/hebrews.shtml

The story goes that Moses led two million Hebrews out of Egypt and they lived for 40 years in the Sinai desert - but a century of archaeology in the Sinai has turned up no evidence of this. If the Hebrews were never in Egypt then perhaps the whole issue was fiction, made up to give their people an exotic history and destiny.

Some archeologists decided to search instead in the Nile Delta: the part of Egypt where the Bible says the Hebrews settled.

They combed the area for evidence of a remarkably precise claim - that the Hebrews were press-ganged into making mud-bricks to build two great cities - Pithom and Ramses. Ramses II was the greatest Pharaoh in all of ancient Egypt - his statues are everywhere. Surely his city could be traced? But no sign could be found. There were suggestions it all been made up by a scribe.

Until a local farmer found a clue: the remains of the feet of a giant statue. An inscription on a nearby pedestal confirmed that the statue belonged to Ramses II. Eventually, archeologists unearthed traces of houses, temples, even palaces. Using new technology, the archaeologists were able to detect the foundations and they mapped out the whole city in a few months. The city they had discovered was one of the biggest cities in ancient Egypt, built around 1250BC. 20,000 Egyptians had lived there.

But was this city actually built by Hebrew slaves? There is a reference in ancient Egyptian documents to a Semitic tribe captured by Pharaoh and forced to work on the city of Ramses. A clay tablet lists groups of people who were captured by the Pharaoh and one of the groups was called Habiru. Could these be the Hebrews? No-one can be sure.

---

Egyptian history is divided into nine periods:

Early dynastic period (3100-2686 B.C.)

Old Kingdom (2686-2181 B.C.) This was a peaceful and prosperous period of time. This was a time of economic wealth and political stability. It was the time of great pyramids, massive tombs, and mummification.

1st intermediate period (2181-2040 B.C.) This was the decline period of the old kingdom. It was caused by the low floods of the Nile resulting in full crops and political instability due to powerful priests and governors. This was a period of anarchy. The pharaohs lost power and could only control one part of the kingdom at a time.

Middle Kingdom (2040-1640 B.C.) This was a stable period beginning with one dynasty that was strong enough to control all of Egypt. During this time, Egyptian influence spread to Nubia.

2nd intermediate period (1640-1550 B.C.) This is another period of anarchy, this time caused by the high floods of the Nile. During this period, a group called the Hyksos was able to invade Egypt and rule it for a time. It is believed that the Hebrews were able to enter Egypt at this time.

New Kingdom (1550-1070 B.C.) This was a stable time period, full of military expansion. This was also the time that the Temple of Karnak and The Valley of the Kings were built. It is also believed that this is when the Hebrew slaves were able to escape Egypt under the rule of Ramses II.

3rd intermediate period (1070-712 B.C.) Another period of anarchy and chaos. For a short time the Libyans conquered Egypt and ruled as part of the 22nd dynasty.

Late Period (712-332 B.C.) During this period Egypt was not progressing. It was ruled by the Nubians, then by the Assyrians, and then by the Persians.

Greco-Roman Period (332 B.C.-395 A.D.) Now Egypt was ruled by Greece and Rome. From now on there were no more Egyptian rulers. After thatm the Egyptians were ruled by other countries such as the Byzantine Empire.

Is there archeological evidence that Hebrews were in Egypt?

What we do know is that from the 16th century B.C. down the next couple hundred years, the northeastern delta of Egypt had significant Semitic populations. It would be very easy to have the Hebrews among that group

Where in Egypt's history do Rameses II, and possibly the Exodus, fit in?

Under Rameses II, Egypt was very powerful, controlling Palestine and Syria up to central Syria. Then there was the big battle with the Hittites at Kadesh, and that led to a treaty with the Hittites. Along with the Hittites, Egypt was the dominant power at that time.

[robitusson]

It seems the people who are most interested in proving the Bible is actual fact are usually fundamentalists. Israelis looking for proof that the Biblical cities and events happened so they can lay claim to their colony. Christian extremists trying to disprove scientific theory.

Edited April 26, 2006 by robitusson