your cell phone can be located even when turned off

[JakeBKK]

Far as I followed this it is still not clear how they do it, don't know if I should believe it or not. Only thing I'm sure of I am deamericanizing my internet behaviour, all that megacompanies need to be boycotted, just my new principle, boycott everything American. They deserve it because they are unreliable and fool the people became normal for them. Everything European is better in any case, GMX mail (german) versus Gmail, Wuala (swiss) versus Dropbox etc.

German Minister: Drop Google, Facebook To Avoid U.S. Spying

Only American brands I love are Leatherman, Maglite and Jack Daniels, bur for the internet I don't want them anymore

Let's take al look than, everything going trough de-icx is secure, but you have to use post-ident to create an email address with web.de. gmx is verifying you with whatsover, and all that crap get bravely reported to the US, because they are morons fighting an imaginary war on, wait was it, ah terror?

I mean give me a break here. Half of the traffic going to de-icx is going or coming from a chord in emden, there is a bit of peer exchange going on, so to say for the rest of it.

But let me say you can be a good person. unfortunately not a generaly good one. make up your mind if you want to be an it engineer or a german politician and than talk crap about things one does not do understand.

Edited July 28, 2013 by JakeBKK

[nosatisfaction]

Take the battery out if you are that paranoid, they can't track it then.

If you are not an international terrorist/criminal why would you care anyhow?

I was wondering when the "if you have nothing to hide..." wing would chime in. If you have nothing to hide, then just put webcams in every room in your house, your car, your favorite bar, etc. etc. and make sure they're running constantly; create facebook & twitter accounts, make them accessible to everyone, and update them constantly with your whereabouts, activities, & political opinions; and of course make SURE you leave your cellphone ON all the time and keep it with you. Everybody knows that only criminals (and paranoids) care about privacy. Right?

Do I need to show the colour of my underware too? That is when I am not naked, walking in my room?

[JakeBKK]

I can't see that being possible at ALL. However admittedly I AM somewhat "IT" impeded, so how would I know anyway. But should this be true, please inform me if they actually trace the phone or just the SIM card within the phone.

jepp , you are right. basically, i am afraid you can with NFC,wreless charging and ven your passport power devices wireless. So i can exploit the RFID chip , NFC , even the crap in your shirt or passport.. So, what you will see next, is a combined radar energy gun. No lasers involved ,here. The radar energy and with a couple of tweaks can read you passport, id or whatever you are supposed to carry. So, you get a ticket with the click of a button. unfortunately it is not the sales receipt you had wished for

Right, so I say I can activate you oyster,rabbit,phone whatsoever from 300 feet away: - shit, i do it with your biometric passport crap as well- miilford. it is utterly stupid.

[Phil Conners]

An off-topic comment has been deleted. This is a good topic, let's try to remain on it.

[slipperylobster]

Europeans have had their share of bad leaders, I recall....

Exactly! That is probably one reason why we are so reluctant to give in to this privacy invasion disguised as anti-terror security.

I do believe the vast majority of Americans would agree. Never lose the Moral High ground...that is what history teaches.

The vast majority of the Americans could care less. The ones I talked to asked if the prism thingy will affect their bottom line. I said, well, no, it affects your privacy. They could care less, unless it hits them in the wallet!!!!!!

oh good. so you met 4 people in a bar from the usa and decided a whole country is stupid. good on you.

[slipperylobster]

I can't see that being possible at ALL. However admittedly I AM somewhat "IT" impeded, so how would I know anyway. But should this be true, please inform me if they actually trace the phone or just the SIM card within the phone.

jepp , you are right. basically, i am afraid you can with NFC,wreless charging and ven your passport power devices wireless. So i can exploit the RFID chip , NFC , even the crap in your shirt or passport.. So, what you will see next, is a combined radar energy gun. No lasers involved ,here. The radar energy and with a couple of tweaks can read you passport, id or whatever you are supposed to carry. So, you get a ticket with the click of a button. unfortunately it is not the sales receipt you had wished for

Right, so I say I can activate you oyster,rabbit,phone whatsoever from 300 feet away: - shit, i do it with your biometric passport crap as well- miilford. it is utterly stupid.

Think "Crystal" and research a man in Britain called "Marconi". He was powering radio receivers in the year 1910, without electricity. Damn receiver was powered by remote radio waves. I hate to belittle your intelligence, but its ancient history.

[sunshine51]

For the paranoid...try this. Build a Faraday Shield. Yes they do work.

Here's a couple links...

http://www.technologyreview.com/view/421768/silence-smart-phones-at-thanksgiving-dinner-with-a-foldable-faraday-cage/

http://www.faradaybag.com/

Of course you can always plop your phone into a tin can that has been lined with rubber matting, properly cut of course...and replace the lid on the can.

No need, advanced anti-radiation wallpaper and wall paint is available in many kinds, it's used eg. at theaters for idiots who forget switching off their phone.

This is a similar wallpaper that only lets cellular and radio through.

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/05/anti-wifi-wallpaper-lets-cellular-and-radio-through/

Thanks for that nfo RD. Didn't know the stuff existed yet. Mind you if one is of the truly paranoid

type the only real way to stop an RF snooper (such as NSA) is to Faraday Shield ones devices...

especially when said devices are supposedly "off".

Some info here to add to the paranoia factor....

There are about as many cell phones as there are people on this planet...sources below...

http://www.technologyreview.com/photoessay/511791/smartphones-are-eating-the-world/

http://mobithinking.com/mobile-marketing-tools/latest-mobile-stats

http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/mobile-phone-world-population-2014/

World internet usage is growing exponentially nowadays too...thanks to 'smart" devices.

Have a look at this...

http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm

That page is almost a year old and those figures have surely increased.

And to add insult to injury...an old military buddy of mine who has just retired after 30 years

working for the Nonnormal Scavenging Agenda has informed me that if you're an internet

user and have a cell phone...they may have more info about you than you may imagine. All

stored in numerous huge data farms located all over mainland USA. And they're constantly

building new data farms to hold even more data about more people...not to mention new data

regarding people they already have data on.

What Snowden released is only the proverbial tip of the iceberg. The usual cannot confirm or

deny story doesn't hold true anymore. And what's really eerie is that this snooping & collecting

didn't just start after 9/11....it's been going on for decades.

The same thing has been going for perhaps longer time in other countries also...maybe not on

such a grand scale as under the current US administration though...then again???

We're just gonna have to live with this because there's no stopping it anytime soon.

[JakeBKK]

I can't see that being possible at ALL. However admittedly I AM somewhat "IT" impeded, so how would I know anyway. But should this be true, please inform me if they actually trace the phone or just the SIM card within the phone.

jepp , you are right. basically, i am afraid you can with NFC,wreless charging and ven your passport power devices wireless. So i can exploit the RFID chip , NFC , even the crap in your shirt or passport.. So, what you will see next, is a combined radar energy gun. No lasers involved ,here. The radar energy and with a couple of tweaks can read you passport, id or whatever you are supposed to carry. So, you get a ticket with the click of a button. unfortunately it is not the sales receipt you had wished for

Right, so I say I can activate you oyster,rabbit,phone whatsoever from 300 feet away: - shit, i do it with your biometric passport crap as well- miilford. it is utterly stupid.

Think "Crystal" and research a man in Britain called "Marconi". He was powering radio receivers in the year 1910, without electricity. dam_n receiver was powered by remote radio waves. I hate to belittle your intelligence, but its ancient history.

yeah, it iis a bit more smart than build a radio with no batteries or an oscillator. every 7-11 will power the NFC chip set inside your handset if you stand around the counter.So, if you own something like a Nokia Lumina i would use that power bump to send an USSD and hijack your phone without switching on the display, vibrating or whatsoever. breaking out of that sandbox is what i call child's play..

Edited July 28, 2013 by JakeBKK

[auserb]

Far as I followed this it is still not clear how they do it, don't know if I should believe it or not. Only thing I'm sure of I am deamericanizing my internet behaviour, all that megacompanies need to be boycotted, just my new principle, boycott everything American. They deserve it because they are unreliable and fool the people became normal for them. Everything European is better in any case, GMX mail (german) versus Gmail, Wuala (swiss) versus Dropbox etc.

German Minister: Drop Google, Facebook To Avoid U.S. Spying

Only American brands I love are Leatherman, Maglite and Jack Daniels, bur for the internet I don't want them anymore

My dear friends, the only way no to be traced is the following advice ; take the battery out of mobile.....

[slipperylobster]

Yes, I do understand the confusion among concerned international communities. Historically speaking, the Brits, I believe, were the first to crack the Japanese code before Pearl Harbor. I will present to you that they indeed knew of the oncoming invasion, but were unable to release the knowledge of their capabilities. Did I not hear of a clandestine national effort (In England) to monitor communications abroad during that period of time? I could bet my last dollar that the NSA was sucking hind titty and playing catch up to the British Intelligence Services for many years to come. I propose to you that an attack on the Pentagon, World Trade Center and (failed) attempt at the White house was quite a wake up call. A similar attack on England or even Australia or Canada might have been shrugged off as bad luck, I suppose. Things kind of escalated and now everyone is being scrutinized. If you posted a message on the internet...does it belong to only you? On the one hand, you want your privacy, but on the other, you want the internet to be a free zone. You are free (in most countries) to encrypt you communications and to hide your identity online...there are ways to do that. You can also purchase a wad of tin foil to confound RF surveillance. I can bet that by now, more than a handful of non USA satellites relaying cellphone communications (did not China send up a few?) are in operation. I remember an old comedy show called "Laugh in" where a snooty telephone operation would listen in on conversations during the 70's. Just because you bought a Nokia, does not give you the power to demand nobody listens to your one baht phone call. Its all non news. And for the most part, we are all kind of boring individuals to listen to anyways. (as a previous poster mentioned).

[JakeBKK]

Far as I followed this it is still not clear how they do it, don't know if I should believe it or not. Only thing I'm sure of I am deamericanizing my internet behaviour, all that megacompanies need to be boycotted, just my new principle, boycott everything American. They deserve it because they are unreliable and fool the people became normal for them. Everything European is better in any case, GMX mail (german) versus Gmail, Wuala (swiss) versus Dropbox etc.

German Minister: Drop Google, Facebook To Avoid U.S. Spying

Only American brands I love are Leatherman, Maglite and Jack Daniels, bur for the internet I don't want them anymore

My dear friends, the only way no to be traced is the following advice ; take the battery out of mobile.....

good idea ! if you manage to get yours out of your iphone whatsoever within an hour, i buy you a beer ! no copy's, the still use screws. and there 1900 baht. and if you do use them i have to buy laho kao for you.

Edited July 28, 2013 by JakeBKK

[rijb]

You can't stop the signal. Everything goes somewhere, and someone is everywhere. (I stole part of this from Serenity - a 2005 space western film)

In the future, all signals will be captured (by the good guys, as well as the bad guys). Capturing the signals is much easier than trying to make sense of them.

Big data is a big headache for big brother. Humans are not reading your emails or listening to your phone calls. Only powerful machines can sort and connect the massive data into useful information.

Lots of people are worried about big brother getting a big head. Not me. I'm more concerned about what will happen when all these powerful machines become self-aware...

[JakeBKK]

You can't stop the signal. Everything goes somewhere, and someone is everywhere. (I stole part of this from Serenity - a 2005 space western film)

In the future, all signals will be captured (by the good guys, as well as the bad guys). Capturing the signals is much easier than trying to make sense of them.

Big data is a big headache for big brother. Humans are not reading your emails or listening to your phone calls. Only powerful machines can sort and connect the massive data into useful information.

Lots of people are worried about big brother getting a big head. Not me. I'm more concerned about what will happen when all these powerful machines become self-aware...

So, you just turned the declaration of independence inside out. Well i'll guess a wedgies don't hurt too much where you come from.Sony, could not resist. So, if I do understand you correctly you let police see into your undies, because you are sure the is no brown stripe? And you think this is right? While people in Syria , Iran, Myanmar and some more places can not speak up? This is pathetic.

Edited July 28, 2013 by JakeBKK

[sustento]

Yes, I do understand the confusion among concerned international communities. Historically speaking, the Brits, I believe, were the first to crack the Japanese code before Pearl Harbor. I will present to you that they indeed knew of the oncoming invasion, but were unable to release the knowledge of their capabilities. Did I not hear of a clandestine national effort (In England) to monitor communications abroad during that period of time?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bletchley_Park

[rijb]

You can't stop the signal. Everything goes somewhere, and someone is everywhere. (I stole part of this from Serenity - a 2005 space western film)

In the future, all signals will be captured (by the good guys, as well as the bad guys). Capturing the signals is much easier than trying to make sense of them.

Big data is a big headache for big brother. Humans are not reading your emails or listening to your phone calls. Only powerful machines can sort and connect the massive data into useful information.

Lots of people are worried about big brother getting a big head. Not me. I'm more concerned about what will happen when all these powerful machines become self-aware...

So, you just turned the declaration of independence inside out. Well i'll guess a wedgies don't hurt too much where you come from.Sony, could not resist. So, if I do understand you correctly you let police see into your undies, because you are sure the is no brown stripe? And you think this is right? While people in Syria , Iran, Myanmar and some more places can not speak up? This is pathetic.

<deleted>? Are you responding to another post? Or are you just a crackpot?

Edited July 28, 2013 by rijb

[JakeBKK]

Yes, I do understand the confusion among concerned international communities. Historically speaking, the Brits, I believe, were the first to crack the Japanese code before Pearl Harbor. I will present to you that they indeed knew of the oncoming invasion, but were unable to release the knowledge of their capabilities. Did I not hear of a clandestine national effort (In England) to monitor communications abroad during that period of time?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bletchley_Park

i'll guess the have moved, since.

[jcisco]

I also do not understand this. If your cell phone is turned off, and the battery is out, then there is no RF frequency being emitted.

But if your battery is still in the phone, then the cell phone will continue to contact the antenna in the cell, what ever cell are available, and if you have one two or better yet three, then you can triangulate and find the geographical position.

The reason I do not understand this is that it seems obvious.

If you remove the battery, then the phone cannot be located by the cell antenna.

It could be located by a bloodhound perhaps, but I think that is it.

Triangulation in 2D space requires 3 reference points to obtain a reasonable position, 2nd the nature of GSM and the segmentation of the network with towers can help a lot to facilitate location of the transmitter.

But fortunately due to load and other performance considerations most operators tend to use more than one tower to cover an area or part of an area. Like in Australia due to clock restrictions and TA the maximum range from tower to device 12.1KM total spatially as well. Accuracy depends on what band the network uses and other factors, and really beyond all this the system is entirely designed with range handling as the focus. The tower will be able to report which antenna on which bank, at range and arc. Using the data about the installations setup you could locate a position to a relatively small search area.

Without first creating the models and interfaces to the radio equipment I doubt they can do this in real time but could be done relatively quickly by hand using maps.

Wanted to highlight that it really is not a trivial task to track a radio signal, especially one in which time slicing is going on. So doing this without the phone companies help would suck. Furthermore, you need to know the phones ID, so the best way to thwart this is by simply changing handsets, you can keep the same number of course. But i guess it will be an easy search in the database to find what SIM id and IMI a phone number was or is connecting from.

[GrantSmith]

You can't stop the signal. Everything goes somewhere, and someone is everywhere. (I stole part of this from Serenity - a 2005 space western film)

In the future, all signals will be captured (by the good guys, as well as the bad guys). Capturing the signals is much easier than trying to make sense of them.

Big data is a big headache for big brother. Humans are not reading your emails or listening to your phone calls. Only powerful machines can sort and connect the massive data into useful information.

Lots of people are worried about big brother getting a big head. Not me. I'm more concerned about what will happen when all these powerful machines become self-aware...

So, you just turned the declaration of independence inside out. Well i'll guess a wedgies don't hurt too much where you come from.Sony, could not resist. So, if I do understand you correctly you let police see into your undies, because you are sure the is no brown stripe? And you think this is right? While people in Syria , Iran, Myanmar and some more places can not speak up? This is pathetic.

<deleted>? Are you responding to another post? Or are you just a crackpot?

Glad someone else was confused...

Too much tin foil perhaps? Copper poisoning?

[JakeBKK]

You can't stop the signal. Everything goes somewhere, and someone is everywhere. (I stole part of this from Serenity - a 2005 space western film)

In the future, all signals will be captured (by the good guys, as well as the bad guys). Capturing the signals is much easier than trying to make sense of them.

Big data is a big headache for big brother. Humans are not reading your emails or listening to your phone calls. Only powerful machines can sort and connect the massive data into useful information.

Lots of people are worried about big brother getting a big head. Not me. I'm more concerned about what will happen when all these powerful machines become self-aware...

So, you just turned the declaration of independence inside out. Well i'll guess a wedgies don't hurt too much where you come from.Sony, could not resist. So, if I do understand you correctly you let police see into your undies, because you are sure the is no brown stripe? And you think this is right? While people in Syria , Iran, Myanmar and some more places can not speak up? This is pathetic.

<deleted>? Are you responding to another post? Or are you just a crackpot?

Glad someone else was confused...

Too much tin foil perhaps? Copper poisoning?

mercury i guess. frequent time outs while posting here, as well.what is the time out for this board?

Edited July 28, 2013 by JakeBKK

[sustento]

Yes, I do understand the confusion among concerned international communities. Historically speaking, the Brits, I believe, were the first to crack the Japanese code before Pearl Harbor. I will present to you that they indeed knew of the oncoming invasion, but were unable to release the knowledge of their capabilities. Did I not hear of a clandestine national effort (In England) to monitor communications abroad during that period of time?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bletchley_Park

i'll guess the have moved, since.

Yes they've moved to here:

[slipperylobster]

LOL. I was an Merkin and so are my two kids, late twenties. But thanks for the laugh, idiot!

LOL ok, ok...you was an "Merkin"?

I guess you lost some communication skills along the way. I should have known.

By the way, name calling on this forum is quite unnecessary. If you need to be recognized as a "Merkin", then just say so.

[slipperylobster]

LOL. I was an Merkin and so are my two kids, late twenties. But thanks for the laugh, idiot!

LOL ok, ok...you was an "Merkin"?

I guess you lost some communication skills along the way. I should have known.

By the way, name calling on this forum is quite unnecessary. If you need to be recognized as a "Merkin", then just say so.

Had to add the official definition of a "Merkin", as you might be unaware of the meaning...

mer·kin[mur-kuhn] Show IPA

noun

false hair for the female pudenda.

[rubberduck]

Researchers at the Department of Defense and MIT recently developed a new tracking device that does not require the phone to be turned on anymore. This new technology no longer requires signals from towers, etc. for tracking. In the simplest terms, it uses satellite signals and electromagnetic radiation produced by sub-atomic particle interactions which can lock in each location for up to approximately 12 days. MIT is working on refining it to up to a month. Once it locks in on the phone, it can loop the whole system and trace every call and every location sent and received during the lifetime of the phone. All conversations that were made or received on that phone are transferred digitally onto a computer which reestablishes the conversations using the actual voices.

Right now the technology is only available to the CIA and FBI terrorism divisions. The DEA has already requested it and approval is expected to be given within the next budget year. Eventually it will work it's way down to state law enforcement agencies.

Also worth reading: FBI taps cell phone mic as eavesdropping tool

Edited July 28, 2013 by rubberduck

[Somtamnication]

 

LOL. I was an Merkin and so are my two kids, late twenties. But thanks for the laugh, idiot!

LOL ok, ok...you was an "Merkin"?

I guess you lost some communication skills along the way. I should have known.

By the way, name calling on this forum is quite unnecessary. If you need to be recognized as a "Merkin", then just say so.

Had to add the official definition of a "Merkin", as you might be unaware of the meaning...

mer·kin[mur-kuhn] Show IPA

noun

false hair for the female pudenda.

 

That made my day. LOL.

The assumption that I only speak to Americans at a bar is what set me off. Ridiculous statement coming from a dyslexic poster. Oh well. Welcome to thaivisa and head in the sand Americans.

[hawker9000]

Take the battery out if you are that paranoid, they can't track it then.

If you are not an international terrorist/criminal why would you care anyhow?

I was wondering when the "if you have nothing to hide..." wing would chime in. If you have nothing to hide, then just put webcams in every room in your house, your car, your favorite bar, etc. etc. and make sure they're running constantly; create facebook & twitter accounts, make them accessible to everyone, and update them constantly with your whereabouts, activities, & political opinions; and of course make SURE you leave your cellphone ON all the time and keep it with you. Everybody knows that only criminals (and paranoids) care about privacy. Right?

Do I need to show the colour of my underware too? That is when I am not naked, walking in my room?

Well, not yet, but that could change... Start hiding money or memory chips there and I'm sure the IRS and NSA will get interested. Based on existing TSA practice, I think it's safe to say the majority of SCOTUS justices would probably already hold that you have no expectation of privacy there. I'm sure a nice Tea Party o RNC pattern on them would send you right to the head of the line!

[JakeBKK]

hard to believe, this actually will fly. the red book about NFC says you can pay with it when the handset is switched off..Because the smart pass inside is not powered by your batteries.It will powered by the terminal Or by me in this case, the chip only holds a couple of KB but who cares. Sooner or later, you going to put your bat back in., and i load the rest with an USSD out of the NFC memory.I'll try later. Batch scripts are no hacking tools,yet.

And a simple if than else cant do harm, or?

[JakeBKK]

crap, this will work on iphones as well when they put NFC chip sets into it. Don't like them anyway.But in all fairness, i can can wait. hijack an iphone by standing next to you? Field day.

Edited July 29, 2013 by JakeBKK

[wabear]

Even more phone fun, there are programs that will wait for a call from a certain incoming number, silently answer the phone with mute on, and let the caller listen in. Maybe a way to find out what your girlfriend is doing in her spare time

[canman]

Batteries were non essential for communications even 40 years ago....

A crystal radio receiver, also called a crystal set or cat's whisker receiver, is a very simple radio receiver, popular in the early days of radio. It needs no battery or power source and runs on the power received from radio waves.

And how do you think the readio waves were generated without power?

[canman]

I can't see that being possible at ALL. However admittedly I AM somewhat "IT" impeded, so how would I know anyway. But should this be true, please inform me if they actually trace the phone or just the SIM card within the phone.

jepp , you are right. basically, i am afraid you can with NFC,wreless charging and ven your passport power devices wireless. So i can exploit the RFID chip , NFC , even the crap in your shirt or passport.. So, what you will see next, is a combined radar energy gun. No lasers involved ,here. The radar energy and with a couple of tweaks can read you passport, id or whatever you are supposed to carry. So, you get a ticket with the click of a button. unfortunately it is not the sales receipt you had wished for

Right, so I say I can activate you oyster,rabbit,phone whatsoever from 300 feet away: - shit, i do it with your biometric passport crap as well- miilford. it is utterly stupid.

Think "Crystal" and research a man in Britain called "Marconi". He was powering radio receivers in the year 1910, without electricity. dam_n receiver was powered by remote radio waves. I hate to belittle your intelligence, but its ancient history.

The first radio transmitters were spark gap transmitters. They required electricity to provide the spark. Where did you get your information that Marconi did not use electricity to generate RF energy ie radio waves?

You seem to imply that Marconi is British (a man in Britain called "Marconi")? Marconi was Italian

Edited July 29, 2013 by canman