Xangsamhua Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Is the Thai proper noun จิตรลดาร (Chitralada, as in the royal palace) derived from the Sanskrit name Chitraratha, king of the Gandharvas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyG Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 I don't think so. The Royal Institute dictionary says it's from Sanskrit and refers to the name of a divine place in the middle of a forest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidHouston Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Just to expand on AyG's explanation, here is a piece from the Royal Institute website knowledge base: http://www.royin.go.th/th/knowledge/detail.php?ID=2915 ชื่อ จิตรลดารโหฐาน ตั้งตามชื่อสวนแห่งหนึ่งของพระอินทร์ ชื่อว่า สวนจิตรลดา. คำว่า รโหฐาน แปลว่า ที่สงัด, ที่เฉพาะส่วนพระองค์. ด้วยเหตุที่พระตำหนักองค์นี้ตั้งชื่อตามสวนของพระอินทร์ จึงพระราชทานชื่อประตูทั้ง ๔ ทิศ ตามนามของพระอินทร์ พระยม พระวิรุณ พระกุเวร และตั้งให้สอดคล้องกัน คือ พระอินทร์อยู่ชม พระยมอยู่คุ้น พระวิรุณอยู่เจน พระกุเวรอยู่เฝ้า Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xangsamhua Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 Thank you, AyG and David. I find the Thai explanation a bit small and hard to read, and my reading skills are not wonderful. "Indra's garden" seems appropriate for a palace in Indra's city, but his garden is normally called Nandana, Kandasara or Parushya, I believe. Is Chitralada then just a pleasant sylvan spot frequented by Indra? That would suggest that the palace is a temporary thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyG Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 A question about pronunciation of จิตรลดาร. I seem to recall being taught that it was cìt.ra.daa - the ล not being pronounced - though I can't find anything to back that up (apart from my course notes). Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriswillems Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 (edited) Is it possible it's จิตรลดา without ร ? The ร is probably part of รโหฐาน in จิตรลดารโหฐาน If so, it's pronounced จิด-ตฺระ-ละ-ดา according thai-language.com and the RID but if you look around on the internet you'll find most Thai people pronounce it as จิด-ละ-ดา Edited July 28, 2013 by kriswillems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokesaat Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Don't know the level of authority, but there's a detailed explanation of the word at http://www.atriumtech.com/cgi-bin/hilightcgi?Home=/home/InterWeb2000&File=/home2/searchdata/Forums/http/www.pantip.com/cafe/library/topic/K3189349/K3189349.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidHouston Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Many Thai words, as well as English words, undergo simplification in pronunciation over time, especially with respect to unstressed syllables. Ask any college student where they attend school and they will most likely use the term "มหา'สัย" for มหาวิทยาลัย. I have even seen the word spelled with the apostrophe. I think this is a normal process of divergence between the written language and spoken language. In fact, on might argue that all Thai คำสนธิ and คำสมาส (merged words) began as separate words and merged over time due to ease of pronunciation. For more on this phenomenon of simplification I recommend "The Unfolding of Language: An Evolutionary Tour of Mankind's Greatest Invention" by Guy Deutscher. See http://www.amazon.com/The-Unfolding-Language-Evolutionary-ebook/dp/B00BCG1MK8/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1375010416&sr=1-1&keywords=The+Unfolding+of+Language%3A+An+Evolutionary+Tour+of+Mankind%27s+Greatest+Invention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajaan Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Is it possible it's จิตรลดา without ร ? The ร is probably part of รโหฐาน in จิตรลดารโหฐาน If so, it's pronounced จิด-ตฺระ-ละ-ดา according thai-language.com and the RID but if you look around on the internet you'll find most Thai people pronounce it as จิด-ละ-ดา The ร is part of จิตร, which by itself means "drawing, painting, portrayal". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriswillems Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Is it possible it's จิตรลดา without ร ? The ร is probably part of รโหฐาน in จิตรลดารโหฐาน If so, it's pronounced จิด-ตฺระ-ละ-ดา according thai-language.com and the RID but if you look around on the internet you'll find most Thai people pronounce it as จิด-ละ-ดา The ร is part of จิตร, which by itself means "drawing, painting, portrayal". I was referring to the the the second ร in จิตรลดาร (in the original post). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xangsamhua Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 Is it possible it's จิตรลดา without ร ? The ร is probably part of รโหฐาน in จิตรลดารโหฐาน If so, it's pronounced จิด-ตฺระ-ละ-ดา according thai-language.com and the RID but if you look around on the internet you'll find most Thai people pronounce it as จิด-ละ-ดา The ร is part of จิตร, which by itself means "drawing, painting, portrayal". I was referring to the the the second ร in จิตรลดาร (in the original post). The second ร was my error (cut and paste). Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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