Rooftop solar energy project to start soon

[Lite Beer]

Rooftop solar energy project to start soon
JEERAPONG PRASERTPOLKRUNG
THE SUNDAY NATION

BANGKOK: -- A project to install solar cells on household rooves to generate and sell energy to the government power grid will start next month, and if 100,000 people apply, the government would install the panels, Energy Minister Pongsak Ruktapongpisal yesterday affirmed.

Talking on 'PM Yingluck Shinawatra's Government Meets the People' weekly TV programme, Pongsak said the cost of solar-cell installation had been cut from Bt300,000-400,000 to under Bt200,000 per panel hence people could take a loan to get the panels and repay the cost by selling power.

The government also had a pilot project to set up community solar cells totalling 800 megawatts. Each community had to be equipped with a one-megawatt solar-cell system to earn profit for the community's welfare or maintenance. Such communities would have to have appropriate power lines and a site with sufficient sunlight.

He admitted the government could not bear the burden of diesel subsidies, so it could be hiked in the future. But Pongsak cited research overseas that diesel-engine trucks could incorporate a natural gas system. If this could lead to mass production, the state would also expand natural gas vehicle stations in terms of quality and quantity, he added.

Meanwhile, the cooking gas price will rise by 50 satang per kilogram per month, from Sept 1. This had to happen, he said, because the government had spent Bt140 billion for the LPG price subsidy over the past 5-6 years. He said this measure would not affect the 7.6 million low-income households (determined by low or nil-usage power bills) as they would be entitled to buy LPG at the old subsidised rate, as well as the 168,529 registered food stalls which mainly feed low-income people. He urged people to seek information from the call centre on 021-407-000.

-- The Nation 2013-07-28

[NongKhaiKid]

Will this become a " power pledging " scheme which is bound to be a raging success ? At least power can't rot in warehouses but it can with all the money involved " disappear ".

[banned1000]

i would have preferred roofs.

[Pimay1]

Pongsak said the cost of solar-cell installation had been cut from Bt300,000-400,000 to under Bt200,000 per panel hence people could take a loan to get the panels and repay the cost by selling power.

I wonder what the time frame of the ROI would be on this Bt200,000 investment.

[edwinchester]

200,000 bht per panel? Surely some mistake there, seems way too high.

200k for a small system maybe.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Zpete]

i would have preferred roofs.

Your choice.

Definition of roof in British and World English in Oxford dictionary. Meaning ... The most usual plural of roof is roofs, although rooves is sometimes used.

[aussieinthailand]

Pongsak said the cost of solar-cell installation had been cut from Bt300,000-400,000 to under Bt200,000 per panel hence people could take a loan to get the panels and repay the cost by selling power.

I wonder what the time frame of the ROI would be on this Bt200,000 investment.

Yu'P spend around $10,000 -12,000 dollares AU on a good system that can generate plenty of power and sell back into the grid,

Not sure of this "per panel" thing? maybe ask the reporter of this to clarifie?

[kurnell]

200,000 bht per panel? Surely some mistake there, seems way too high.

200k for a small system maybe.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Don't forget the 150k in kickbacks

[orosee]

Surely the price must be for a complete rooftop installation? 3 years ago you could get one kW installed on your roof for the equivalent of 40-50 thousand baht. 200k should be for a small household plant of about 5 kW.

Journalists frequently get confused by technical terms like cell, panel, power plant, kW and kWh. Not too mention the difference between solar thermal and solar photovoltaic.

[rametindallas]

How large ARE those installations that normally retail for 3 - 4000,000 Baht? I recently bought a high efficiency, grown crystal PV panel that is 13" by 48" for less than Bt. 10,000. It puts out 36 watts at 14.5 volts. For Bt. 400,000, I could cover 16 sq. meters. Max output in bright sun and using a power inverter I could get maybe 0.8 Kw hours @ 220 volts per day. How much per kilowatt hour is electricity in Thailand? I think it will take a very long time to repay this investment. Current panels lose a lot of efficiency after only ten years. New technology is much better and only a few years away. I think I'll wait.

[OzMick]

Bt140 billion for the LPG cooking gas price subsidy over the past 5-6 years is too expensive, even though it directly benefits ALL the poorest people in the country. OTOH we will soon know this year's figures (if you could believe them) for the rice subsidy, which has been a near total failure of lifting the incomes of poor rice farmers - a small segment of Thailand's poor.

Anybody care to bet the rice scam figure will be less than B30 billion?

Will the 800 community solar cells planned be evenly distributed throughout the country, or be concentrated where the demand is greatest, and the voter's know who their friends are?

[OzMick]

How large ARE those installations that normally retail for 3 - 4000,000 Baht? I recently bought a high efficiency, grown crystal PV panel that is 13" by 48" for less than Bt. 10,000. It puts out 36 watts at 14.5 volts. For Bt. 400,000, I could cover 16 sq. meters. Max output in bright sun and using a power inverter I could get maybe 0.8 Kw hours @ 220 volts per day. How much per kilowatt hour is electricity in Thailand? I think it will take a very long time to repay this investment. Current panels lose a lot of efficiency after only ten years. New technology is much better and only a few years away. I think I'll wait.

Current price is <B4/kwh (~B3.8?) but as they are agreeing to pay B6.6 for small solar producers, this is expected to rise ~B0.5. This was covered in a recent thread.

Note that those rich enough to own their homes and afford the investment will have subsidised panels and inflated purchase prices for their power output. Everybody else can pay more to cover this. It should be noted that the wholesale purchase price for unreliable/uncontrolled-variable electrical energy SHOULD be around B2.5.

Edited July 28, 2013 by OzMick

[jamhar]

i would have preferred roofs.

I would prefer a larger version of your thumbnail

Wowzers!

[greg71]

How about providing power to the countless schools which operate with no power ?

[banned1000]

i would have preferred roofs.

I would prefer a larger version of your thumbnail

Wowzers!

done

[GeorgeO]

I've often broached the subject with friends/colleagues as to why a country like Thailand does not make maximum use of the significant sunlight power that is available to generate electricity through solar panel installations.

I have no knowledge of the subject, particularly with regard to its efficiency, but surely a good system could provide sufficient electricity to keep the house cool all day...!?

[HUAHIN62]

Solar generated electricity is expensive. The capital outlay is high and many panels needs to be replaced after 5 years. In the rainy season the generation of solar electricty becomes unreliable and can only supplement normal supply.

[MaxYakov]

How large ARE those installations that normally retail for 3 - 4000,000 Baht? I recently bought a high efficiency, grown crystal PV panel that is 13" by 48" for less than Bt. 10,000. It puts out 36 watts at 14.5 volts. For Bt. 400,000, I could cover 16 sq. meters. Max output in bright sun and using a power inverter I could get maybe 0.8 Kw hours @ 220 volts per day. How much per kilowatt hour is electricity in Thailand? I think it will take a very long time to repay this investment. Current panels lose a lot of efficiency after only ten years. New technology is much better and only a few years away. I think I'll wait.

I experimented with 15w solar panels on a motor home for a few years and determined that no way could it be cost-effective or convenient. Solar panels put out their rated power (if that!) only under ideal conditions and they have to be kept very clean. A hardly-noticeable drop in sunlight caused by just a thin cloud will substantially reduce their output power

I think they should be used only in severe, off-the-grid circumstances (such as orbital satellites), but even then a small gas generator is probably more practical (not for satellites, of course). I found that a 21,000 baht, small, portable, gas-powered, 1Kw generator to charge three deep-discharge, gel-cell, UPS batteries (1,500 bath each, recycled) with standard battery chargers (1,500 baht each, new) much more practical. Run-time under load (charging two batteries simultaneously at times) was 10 hours on its .66 gal. tank.

Edited July 28, 2013 by MaxYakov

[h90]

How large ARE those installations that normally retail for 3 - 4000,000 Baht? I recently bought a high efficiency, grown crystal PV panel that is 13" by 48" for less than Bt. 10,000. It puts out 36 watts at 14.5 volts. For Bt. 400,000, I could cover 16 sq. meters. Max output in bright sun and using a power inverter I could get maybe 0.8 Kw hours @ 220 volts per day. How much per kilowatt hour is electricity in Thailand? I think it will take a very long time to repay this investment. Current panels lose a lot of efficiency after only ten years. New technology is much better and only a few years away. I think I'll wait.

It is a state purchase, so it would be 4 sqm.

50 % kickbacks

50 % higher price because of all the hassle dealing with the government.

[OzMick]

How about providing power to the countless schools which operate with no power ?

Solar would be a good way to supply a few fans and the battery chargers for the tablet computers these kids didn't get.

[ginjag]

My 3 bed bungalow, 2 air con, f/Freezer, auto washer, 3 TVs, fans, Karaoke system, 3 sat/dish, 1000 bht a month=12,000 per year.

So how does this cost compare with buying solar panels, and replacing them in 5 years also. ???

As pointed out, your farm people in villages get them on your galvanized roof, borrow the money ????? maybe get a small one to put on the roof of the small s####house outside, and sell that extra power to the GRID.

This scheme applies to the government officials-business- NOT your red -or whatever villagers.

[EvilDrSomkid]

This technology is already being used in a few European countries. In our case, if we would install a grid feed system for 200k, our return on investment would be at the best rate ( covering 100% of current consumption) 57 months. So, almost 5 years. By that time, some maintenance would be needed plus the panels might deteriorate and not provide so much power anymore. Probably some cheapass Chinese panels to be purchased through some Ministry of Energy "agent".

Great deal.

[Gomyway]

Funny, all the stuff Germany was going through in the last years to safe its industry and keep it running is now coming to Thailand and this all will not be paid by the rich ones.

[fxe1200]

First there has to be a law regulating the compensation for electricity fed into the grid. Second, the implementation of thermal solar power units should be forced. To check efficiency, costs of construction, as well as the development of modular systems, the Government should use their own buildings and schools to study these matters. The results could finally lead to a system, almost everybody (or your local AC cleaning staff) could handle and maintain. Black copper tubes filled with regular water underneath a glass cover can act solar collectors, instead of using a set of mirrors, which are less maintenance-friendly.

I hope they get their job done soon.

[MaxYakov]

How about providing power to the countless schools which operate with no power ?

Solar would be a good way to supply a few fans and the battery chargers for the tablet computers these kids didn't get.

I got the sarcasm, but when pondering using a small gas generator and considering using a motorbike to temporarily drive an alternator for off-the-grid schools, I had this flash.

Imagine a hybrid motorbike that could alternatively use its gas engine/alternator to supply A/C power. Its wheels would normally be driven by an A/C electric motor fed by the gas engine/alternator. For simplicity and cost reduction, avoid the expensive gearing used by the Prius or perhaps not. It would be an engineering challenge to effectively miniaturize the Prius drive train and keep costs down while producing a dual-use vehicle (transportation vehicle/power generator). For example engine cooling might be problematic when used as a stationary power generator under load.

BTW, I wonder how sales (or even production) of the Chevy Volt is doing these days.

Edited July 28, 2013 by MaxYakov

[Robby nz]

There is already one solar farm in TL that I know of, about 40km north of Ayutthya. There may be more.

Are there any numbers as to how much electricity that generates for the grid?

A good idea in principle but in practice looks to have a lot of problems.

Anyway it is only for those who can afford the expense and think it will save them on their power bills.

If those who cant afford it are encouraged to take part it will only increase the public debt burden.

[cloudhopper]

"hence people could take a loan to get the panels and repay the cost by selling power."

Turning more people into debt slaves while someone makes a killing on panels is the only reason such an economically unrealistic plan like this was ever hatched.

[OzMick]

How about providing power to the countless schools which operate with no power ?

Solar would be a good way to supply a few fans and the battery chargers for the tablet computers these kids didn't get.

I got the sarcasm, but when pondering using a small gas generator and considering using a motorbike to temporarily drive an alternator for off-the-grid schools, I had this flash.

Imagine a hybrid motorbike that could alternatively use its gas engine/alternator to supply A/C power. Its wheels would normally be driven by an A/C electric motor fed by the gas engine/alternator. For simplicity and cost reduction, avoid the expensive gearing used by the Prius or perhaps not. It would be an engineering challenge to effectively miniaturize the Prius drive train and keep costs down while producing a dual-use vehicle (transportation vehicle/power generator). For example engine cooling might be problematic when used as a stationary power generator under load.

BTW, I wonder how sales (or even production) of the Chevy Volt is doing these days.

I understand you, but besides the efficiency factor, there is also scam/theft to consider. TIT where anything that isn't bolted down will walk (and somethings that are), prices will be inflated, and various other scams initiated. If I was going to put baht coins on a dead man's eyes, I would use super glue.

Panels on a school roof, plainly visible, and surrounded by razor wire and broken glass might last for a while.

[retell]

so where can apply ????

[Gomyway]

Please take a look about the emergency case of fire and see what the fire brigade will do, until now there is to many insecurity.