Zimbabwe president vows to chop off gay men's heads

[Jingthing]

What is it about Africa?

As a region they appear to be even worse than the Middle East on gay rights issues. Excepting South Africa of course.

Today's anti-gay country of horror: Zimbabwe

“If you take men and lock them in a house for five years and tell them to come up with two children and they fail to do that, then we will chop off their heads.”
Zimbabwe President Robert Mugabe

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/07/28/zimbabwe_president_robert_mugabe_vows_to_behead_gays.html

[isanbirder]

These African dictators (yes, I know he's elected. but.....) tend to go bananas (and I'm not referring to the Rev. Canaan), e.g. Idi Amin, the Emperor Bokassa.... and I think Mugabe is moving rapidly into that group.

I doubt whether this regime will last much longer (he's 89, I think), and all we can do now is hope for better things to come.

[Credo]

The Middle East just seems to be prudish about sex in general. It's an uptight subject with them and fairly severe consequences, but they would just as soon not see it, not hear about and not know that it happens. Even with females.

In Africa it seems to be just a plain old vendetta against gay. Seems reasonably acceptable to mess with females, even fairly young ones.

[Jingthing]

I've heard the African homophobes justify it by saying how important fertility is in African cultures. I know in some countries hard core right wing Christian American fundamentalists have come in with obscene anti-gay propaganda and aggravated the problem, but I don't know if that's the case in Zimbabwe.

[BarryM]

The Middle East just seems to be prudish about sex in general. It's an uptight subject with them and fairly severe consequences, but they would just as soon not see it, not hear about and not know that it happens. Even with females.

In Africa it seems to be just a plain old vendetta against gay. Seems reasonably acceptable to mess with females, even fairly young ones.

What they say and what they do in the Middle East are two separate things.

I visited a local hammam in N Iraq two years ago - and was busier than I've ever been in Babylon

[sustento]

That's a new twist on 'giving head'

[anotheruser]

Why does this forum have so many threads not related to Thailand? I realise it would shrink if such posts aren't allowed but why is this an exception? Surely these posts could go under world news or something else? Not that I care that much but just curious what the justification is for it?

[Suradit69]

Why does this forum have so many threads not related to Thailand? I realise it would shrink if such posts aren't allowed but why is this an exception? Surely these posts could go under world news or something else? Not that I care that much but just curious what the justification is for it?

The forums are supposedly meant to serve the concerns of the communities/interests indicated ... for people who are resident in Thailand. The technology forum doesn't deal only with technology in Thailand. The Buddhism forum deals with broader issues than those only within Thailand. There's a forum that deals with visa issues to other countries. People living in Thailand are allowed to be interested in things that occur outside Thailand but effect them and these forums allow those items to be discussed.

[sustento]

Why does this forum have so many threads not related to Thailand? I realise it would shrink if such posts aren't allowed but why is this an exception? Surely these posts could go under world news or something else? Not that I care that much but just curious what the justification is for it?

If you read the sticky at the top of the forum called 'Posting here...' all will become clear...

[Suradit69]

I've heard the African homophobes justify it by saying how important fertility is in African cultures. I know in some countries hard core right wing Christian American fundamentalists have come in with obscene anti-gay propaganda and aggravated the problem, but I don't know if that's the case in Zimbabwe.

Supposedly, and this is unsubstantiated rumor, when Mugabe was incarcerated between about 1964 and 1974, he was "befriended" by other inmates and didn't enjoy the experience.

Uganda very definitely was directly influenced by Rick Warren and others from the unChristian right wing.

South Africa however has very progressive laws concerning gay rights, but of course legislation can't stop grass roots discrimination.

South Africa has one of the most liberal constitutional and legal frameworks in the world, protecting the equality and rights of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people. When it came into force in 1996, the post-apartheid constitution prohibited all unfair discrimination based on sexual orientation. Legislation has subsequently been introduced to decriminalise same-sex sexual ac­tivity and equalise the age of consent. Gay and lesbian couples are entitled to marry, adopt children and receive equal access to IVF treatment and surrogacy services. And since 1998, homosexuals have been allowed to serve openly in the South African military – the only African country to guarantee this particular freedom.

I stayed in the UAE for many years (and was on the UAE Federal government payroll). For the most part gay people aren't hassled much, although anything too overt brings a reaction. A fair number of foreign teachers and local students at the tertiary level are gay, including at least one member of one of the royal families. No real problems with that.

Supposedly a fair number of foreign maids from Asia, especially the Philippines, found it to be a hassle free environment for lesbians.

And the head of Oman, Sultan Qaboos is well known to be gay. At one time he supposedly handed out pink Cadillacs to favored live-in male friends.

It is one of the oddest thing on earth: the monarch is homosexual, but the subjects both gays and lesbians can be jailed for their sexual-orientation.

Sultan Qaboos, 68, of Oman is the world's first gay king in modern times.

Still, the Sultanate of Oman officially is a country where homosexuality is banned under strict Islamic provisions. Qaboos decreed laws to punish both men and women to up to three years in prison for homosexuality

Continue reading at NowPublic.com: King is gay, but homosexuality outlawed | NowPublic News Coverage http://www.nowpublic.com/world/king-gay-homosexuality-outlawed#ixzz2ae0IwYKh

Edited July 31, 2013 by Suradit69

[anotheruser]

Why does this forum have so many threads not related to Thailand? I realise it would shrink if such posts aren't allowed but why is this an exception? Surely these posts could go under world news or something else? Not that I care that much but just curious what the justification is for it?

If you read the sticky at the top of the forum called 'Posting here...' all will become clear...

Okay cheers.

[LeCharivari]

We're veering off-topic, Suradit, but although you are correct about Sultan Qaboos' preferences the rest (pink Cadillacs, plus pretty well everything in your link) is an urban myth - I was on the SOAF payroll.

[lemoncake]

It's just as crazy as Kenyan lawyer filing law suit against Italy and Israel for killing Jesus, as apparently both states are responsible.

I guess mad man do not need a reason just the ability.

On the subject of Mugabee, it should not be a surprise just look at what he has done to the country, 1 trillion dollar notes.

[MAJIC]

These African dictators (yes, I know he's elected. but.....) tend to go bananas (and I'm not referring to the Rev. Canaan), e.g. Idi Amin, the Emperor Bokassa.... and I think Mugabe is moving rapidly into that group.

I doubt whether this regime will last much longer (he's 89, I think), and all we can do now is hope for better things to come.

Mugabe hasnt been elected by the people,for around 20-30 years,unless you count fraudulent ballots,organised by Mugabes henchmen threatentening the lives of the voters,and numerous fiddled ballot papers,and whole areas of Zimbabwe. This Election will be no different. The last of the breed of Amin, Papa Doc,Pinochet,Ghaddafi,Chairman Mao,Saddam, may they all rot in hell!

[Suradit69]

We're veering off-topic, Suradit, but although you are correct about Sultan Qaboos' preferences the rest (pink Cadillacs, plus pretty well everything in your link) is an urban myth - I was on the SOAF payroll.

Which is why I said "supposedly" and provided a link to a rumor mongering site.

The point being that such myths exist and are widely spread in the Gulf, just as the rumors that the Saudi royals are guzzling booze 24/7. The fact that there hasn't been an Omani-Spring style uprising, at least none that attracted notice, suggests a greater tolerance for things which are haram than is the case in some African countries where there is quite often a popular revulsion & intolerance to homosexuality beyond government policy.

A comment made about Oman is probably more broadly true to a greater or lesser extent across much of the Middle East and certainly is a more practical tolerance than can be found generally Africa ( where I also lived for many years).

Two important observations can be made about being homosexual in Oman. One is that homosexuality is forbidden with potential imprisonment as a consequence. Second, anti-gay laws are almost never enforced unless there are circumstances that draw police attention such as rape, violence, under-age abuse, drugs or gross violation of Muslim social norms.

Homosexuality is quietly acknowledged in the Omani culture, unlike some Middle East countries that try to deny its existence. Despite being a conservative and religious country Oman does not demonize gay people as a western threat to the order of life. There is a calm tolerance (ignorance? indifference?) of LGBT life as long as it is not seen to offend public sensibility with displays of affection. But discerning such affection is ambiguous and unclear since public fondness is part of the public ethos: men and women greet each other with hugs and kisses to both cheeks.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Suradit69

[Suradit69]

We're veering off-topic, Suradit, but although you are correct about Sultan Qaboos' preferences the rest (pink Cadillacs, plus pretty well everything in your link) is an urban myth - I was on the SOAF payroll.

Which is why I said "supposedly" and provided a link to a rumor mongering site.

The point being that such gossip exists and is widely spread in the Gulf, just as the rumors that the Saudi royals are guzzling booze 24/7. The fact that there hasn't been an Omani-Spring style uprising, at least none that attracted notice, suggests a greater tolerance for things which are haram than is the case in some African countries where there is quite often a popular revulsion & intolerance to homosexuality beyond government policy. I also spent many years in southern Africa and know that being openly gay was not tolerate on any level.

Also the Sultan is openly embraced by other leaders in the region, unlike Mugabe, although he is not popular for reasons other than his stance on sexual matters.

I mentioned that I was on the government payroll, not to claim some omniscience about what went on in and around the UAE, but because it was pretty well assumed I was gay and that didn't put my work for the government in jeopardy.

A comment made about Oman below is probably more broadly true to a greater or lesser extent across much of the Middle East and certainly is a more practical tolerance than can be found in many African countries, which is a reasonable part of a discussion about what's happening in Zimbabwe and not really straying off topic.

Two important observations can be made about being homosexual in Oman. One is that homosexuality is forbidden with potential imprisonment as a consequence. Second, anti-gay laws are almost never enforced unless there are circumstances that draw police attention such as rape, violence, under-age abuse, drugs or gross violation of Muslim social norms.

Homosexuality is quietly acknowledged in the Omani culture, unlike some Middle East countries that try to deny its existence. Despite being a conservative and religious country Oman does not demonize gay people as a western threat to the order of life. There is a calm tolerance (ignorance? indifference?) of LGBT life as long as it is not seen to offend public sensibility with displays of affection. But discerning such affection is ambiguous and unclear since public fondness is part of the public ethos: men and women greet each other with hugs and kisses to both cheeks.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Suradit69

[aussiebebe]

I think Mugabe's comments were in the context of his country being forced to accept homosexuality due to international pressure. He was asserting the right to be allowed to choose, or not.

[Jingthing]

I think Mugabe's comments were in the context of his country being forced to accept homosexuality due to international pressure. He was asserting the right to be allowed to choose, or not.

That might be a reasonable read if you were talking about accepting more advanced concepts of gay civil rights and equality such as gay marriage. Every country has homosexuality and homosexuals by definition are part of their native population. His "not accepting" suggestion is murder. That's extreme, to put it mildly.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Surprise! He won.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2013/08/22/robert_mugabe_lashes_out_at_homosexuality_in_inauguration_speech_zimbabwe.html

In the speech, Mugabe urged young people to “damn” homosexuality in the same way his government does and not to offend nature by engaging in same-sex relationships.

“That destroys nations, apart from it being a filthy, filthy disease,” he said.

[Scott]

That's rich, Mugabe talking about things that destroy a nation!

[hanno]

Mugabe should be shot, and not just for being a homophobe; he has single-handedly turned one of the richest nations in Africa into a wasteland.

I am not gay myself, but what is going on today is crazy. I grew up in Africa, it was a lot more laid back when I was a kid. Even back then, homosexuality was frowned upon, but at least gay people weren't murdered.