Self employed proof for uk spouse visa

[thomas28]

I will be getting married in thailand this january & have most of the required documents for the spouse visa i think. my girlfriend is here in uk on tourist at the moment.

I have spent lots of time out of work the last 2 years spending time with my girlfriend in Asia (mainly Thailand). I will still of met the income of £18600 each year but when I go back to Thailand in January for 3 months , i will not have a job or any income proof of pay slips as I'm self employed. I work in construction and finding work is part if the job, but will this go against me as being the sponsor I can't support her.

Will this make any difference to my spouse visa application ???

[7by7]

The requirements for the self employed can be found in Section 9 of this document.

Section 9.6.1.7 lists the evidence required from a sole trader. It is not a list from which you can choose; all the documents relevant to you must be produced.

Note that you can use your income from the last complete financial year, which if the application is being made next January will be 2012/13 (Category F), or you can use the average of your income over the previous two complete financial years, 2011/12 and 2012/13 (Category G).

You can combine self employed income and income from other sources, e.g. employment, but you cannot combine self employed income and cash savings.

You can use cash savings on their own if you have sufficient, i.e. at least £62,500. These savings can be in your name, hers or both. They could come from a gift from a third party, but they must be a gift, not a loan, and have been in your, her or both of your name(s) and complete control for at least the 6 months prior to the application. See Section 7 of the document.

If you do not meet the financial requirement, her application will be automatically refused.

Edited to add savings info.

Edited July 30, 2013 by 7by7

[Jay Sata]

I have spent lots of time out of work the last 2 years spending time with my girlfriend in Asia (mainly Thailand). I will still of met the income of £18600 each year but when I go back to Thailand in January for 3 months , i will not have a job or any income proof of pay slips as I'm self employed. I work in construction and finding work is part if the job, but will this go against me as being the sponsor I can't support her.

To work in the building industry you will no doubt be CIS registered and have an accountant. As long as you have proper accounts and can meet the £18600 threshold I see no problem.

You say you have no pay slips or proof of income. That cannot be correct if you've been self employed as you would have had to raise invoices

and perhaps have trade accounts with builders merchants. Your accountant will have had to sign off your accounts to the revenue department each year.

If you have as you say spent a lot of time in Thailand in the last couple of years and three months next January you may have problems meeting the income requirements if there has not been sufficient profit or you have not paid yourself a proper wage in the case of a limited company.

[Bladefire]

I will be getting married in thailand this january & have most of the required documents for the spouse visa i think. my girlfriend is here in uk on tourist at the moment.

I have spent lots of time out of work the last 2 years spending time with my girlfriend in Asia (mainly Thailand). I will still of met the income of £18600 each year but when I go back to Thailand in January for 3 months , i will not have a job or any income proof of pay slips as I'm self employed. I work in construction and finding work is part if the job, but will this go against me as being the sponsor I can't support her.

Will this make any difference to my spouse visa application ???

Dont think you will get the visa. Iwas in same boat. Came back worked 9 months. Got a letter from site manager saying i had ongoing work with company. Its tough being self employed. We got both settlement visas last week. Get back in work and go back for a short time to apply for visas. Dont stay 3 months would be my advice. Do your homework. You will need your self assessment. Bank statements to back up your earnings, etc

[thomas28]

Sorry I've not written that clearly jay. I have been working for an agency who pay me weekly with proof of pay slips until the time I leave to get married and fly to Thailand in January. I am still working on CIS scheme as self employed. I will have all proof of tax returns until jan 2014.

In this time tax year april 2013 - January 2014 I would of earned £25000 .

What I'm saying is during the application process i will be unemployed from January 2014 for 3 months without proof from that date. If she is going to come to uk , basically I will be unemployed without proof of income for these dates

??

[ThaiVisaExpress]

It will depend on how much you have earned over the 6 months prior to the date of application. There is a formula to work out if you have met the requirement or not. Basically, in the 6 months prior to the date of application, you add up all of your income, divide it by 6 to get a monthly average. Then multiply that by 12 to get an "annualised salary". That must be at last 18,600 GBP. You can probably see that if you have no income from January 2014 for 3 months, and you apply for the visa in March 2014, then your average over the 6 months prior to application ( in March 2014) could be too low ( as it will be the total of only 3 months income out of the 6) when multiplied by 12 to reach 18,600 GBP. IN ADDITION, you must have earned 18,600 GBP in the 12 months prior to the application.

Tony M

[7by7]

Thomas, unless she applies after the end of the 2013/14 tax year, your earnings in that year cannot be used. As said, it will be either

• Category F, earnings in 2012/13,or
• Category G, average earnings for 2011/12 and 2012/13.

It doesn't matter how many receipts you have from suppliers etc.; the documents listed in section 9.6.1.7 must be supplied.

Edit:

Tony, I can't see anything about earnings during the 6 moths prior to the application where the sponsor is self employed. Have I missed something?

Edited July 30, 2013 by 7by7

[Jay Sata]

I'd reduce the holiday and enjoy your time together when you get the visa.

Plenty of work here in East Anglia for builders as things seem to be picking up.

Good luck and best wishes.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Jay Sata

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Thomas, unless she applies after the end of the 2013/14 tax year, your earnings in that year cannot be used. As said, it will be either

• Category F, earnings in 2012/13,or
• Category G, average earnings for 2011/12 and 2012/13.

It doesn't matter how many receipts you have from suppliers etc.; the documents listed in section 9.6.1.7 must be supplied.

Edit:

Tony, I can't see anything about earnings during the 6 moths prior to the application where the sponsor is self employed. Have I missed something?

I'm assuming that he is not self-employed, in the sense that he has his own business. He appears to be in "non-salaried" employment", working for various employers, with a variable income. I think he can claim this, as long as he can prove his income and tax paid ( which he says he can). Presumably, his income is variable ( on contract or hourly rate, depending on the job itself). If his employers provide him with wage slips, then so much the better.

Tony M

[Kevin1908]

Sorry I've not written that clearly jay. I have been working for an agency who pay me weekly with proof of pay slips until the time I leave to get married and fly to Thailand in January. I am still working on CIS scheme as self employed. I will have all proof of tax returns until jan 2014.

In this time tax year april 2013 - January 2014 I would of earned £25000 .

What I'm saying is during the application process i will be unemployed from January 2014 for 3 months without proof from that date. If she is going to come to uk , basically I will be unemployed without proof of income for these dates

??

A pity that you were being paid by the agent and not limited company as you could have just spread the payments out over the 3 months. How well do you trust the agent? Can you come to a deal where he spreads the payments between now and Jan 2014 over the period Jan to March.

[7by7]

Tony,

It is a bit confusing, as in his OP he says he's self employed, in his second post he says he works for an agency.

But he does also say "I am still working on CIS scheme as self employed"

Which I think means he will be treated as self employed as far as the financial requirements are concerned.

But you are far more knowledgeable in this area than I, so I will, of course, accept your judgement.

[Kevin1908]

Tony,

It is a bit confusing, as in his OP he says he's self employed, in his second post he says he works for an agency.

But he does also say "I am still working on CIS scheme as self employed"

Which I think means he will be treated as self employed as far as the financial requirements are concerned.

But you are far more knowledgeable in this area than I, so I will, of course, accept your judgement.

I think that this is the problem with the Border Agency's definition of self employed verses the generally accepted defintion. If he is working for an agent then unless limited company then I assume the agent is deducting tax and national insurance and he is therefore not self employed, except in the eyes of the Border Agency. I didn't think that an agent has any scope to pay anybody as a self employed person.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

The definitions of self-employed ( in Appendix FM-SE) are - sole trader, partner, franchisee or director of a limited company. I don't think he fits in to any of these, and I would certainly make a good case for him being in non-salaried employment.

Tony M

[7by7]

Thanks.

[Jay Sata]

He is probably being paid with deductions because he is not earning enough.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cis/subcontractors/advice-pay.htm

[thomas28]

Im working CIS self employed for a construction recruitment agency who pay my 20% tax which i put Towards a self employed tax return at the end of the tax year.

I would of been working for just this one agency for most of the year which is like working for a limited company but I'm still self employed.

This is what I've earned

Tax year april 2013 - jan 2014 £25000

If what 7by7 is saying is true that I cannot use these latest earnings and they will use 2011-12 & 2012-13 tax years money. This starts another problem.

2011-12 I earned £31000

(£27000 in Australia & £4000 in uk)

2012-13 I earned £16000

I spent half the year away from uk 12-13 and worked in Australia most if the year 11-12

What problems does this bring to my situation?

Should I just forget my 3 month stay keep myself employed with this same agency and spend just few weeks in Thailand in January.

[7by7]

From what Tony M is saying, I misunderstood your situation and you will not be treated as self employed but as employed; in which case see his post no. 6.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Im working CIS self employed for a construction recruitment agency who pay my 20% tax which i put Towards a self employed tax return at the end of the tax year.

I would of been working for just this one agency for most of the year which is like working for a limited company but I'm still self employed.

This is what I've earned

Tax year april 2013 - jan 2014 £25000

If what 7by7 is saying is true that I cannot use these latest earnings and they will use 2011-12 & 2012-13 tax years money. This starts another problem.

2011-12 I earned £31000

(£27000 in Australia & £4000 in uk)

2012-13 I earned £16000

I spent half the year away from uk 12-13 and worked in Australia most if the year 11-12

What problems does this bring to my situation?

Should I just forget my 3 month stay keep myself employed with this same agency and spend just few weeks in Thailand in January.

Apologies to 7x7 for my earlier thoughts, but this might be more difficult than I thought. I still think you might get away with being treated as a non-salaried employee.

Are you registered with HMRC as a sole trader ? If so, then it will be more difficult than I said earlier. Or are you a contract worker ?

From the figures you have given, the it looks like you won't meet the financial requirement as self-employed. I don't think the income earned in Australia can be used to meet the requirement, unless it is documented in the same way that income earned in the UK is.

You do have some time to sort out whether you can be treated as being in non-salaried employment, and I think that still might be a possibility. If you want us to try to check with UKVI at the Embassy in Bangkok ( no charge to you), then contact Paul on the office email ( or PM here). It will take about a month for them to reply, though ! You can, of course, contact them yourself.

[Jay Sata]

I'd go and clarify your employment status with an accountant who will advise and assist you. His fees are tax deductable.

Speaking from long experience of working in broadcasting it is normal to work for just one company and still be self employed

for tax purposes. People like Jeremy Paxman only work for the BBC but for tax purposes are self employed.

I'd be getting those earnings coming in and have a shorter holiday in Thailand. I have to say late Dec/January is not a time to be a builder in the UK.

It is normal in area's such as the oil industry to work in more than one country but still pay tax in the UK. Australia has a double taxation agreement with the UK so you don't pay tax in both countries.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Jay Sata

[thomas28]

Jay sata says Australia has a tax agreement with the uk, so does that mean that this money will qualify for income ?

my income for 2012-13 isn't enough alone but if my australian earnings qualify. if you add both years 2011-12 & 2012-13 earnings together it equals £47000 .

When the income threshold for 2 years would only need to be £37200. So that should qualify according to what 7by7 said earlier. ??

Do you all think it would be more sensible to take a shorter holiday in Thailand , return to work for the same company and apply for a spouse visa in April 2014?

My yearly income then should be just over £30000 and i'll still be in full time employment .

Obviously I would like to apply in January when we are married because of the waiting times etc

[Jay Sata]

Have you asked your accountant for his advice?

I take it you have one?

[7by7]

Jay sata says Australia has a tax agreement with the uk, so does that mean that this money will qualify for income ?

my income for 2012-13 isn't enough alone but if my australian earnings qualify. if you add both years 2011-12 & 2012-13 earnings together it equals £47000 .

When the income threshold for 2 years would only need to be £37200. So that should qualify according to what 7by7 said earlier. ??

Do you all think it would be more sensible to take a shorter holiday in Thailand , return to work for the same company and apply for a spouse visa in April 2014?

My yearly income then should be just over £30000 and i'll still be in full time employment .

Obviously I would like to apply in January when we are married because of the waiting times etc

Have you read the financial appendix I linked to earlier?

You will see that both employed and self employed income from work outside the UK can be used to meet the requirement; but you need to provide similar evidence to that required if you had been working in the UK.

That's the simple answer, for more details you should read the appendix.

I'd also take up Tony M's offer "If you want us to try to check with UKVI at the Embassy in Bangkok ( no charge to you), then contact Paul on the office email ( or PM here). It will take about a month for them to reply, though !" were I in your position.

If you do return earlier to the UK to be employed, remember that it is not your annual income they will use, but your earnings over the 6 months prior to the application.

As Tony has already said; they will take your total earnings from that 6 months, divide it by 6 then multiply that figure by 12. If the answer is £18,600 or more you meet the requirement. If it is less, even 1p less, you don't.

So even with a salary of £30,000, if you have only worked for 3 out of the last 6 months you wont meet the requirement; whilst if you have worked for 4 out of the last 6 months you will, just.

BTW, unless your accountant is also a qualified lawyer or is registered with the OISC (unlikely) then s/he cannot legally give you any immigration advice.

Edited July 30, 2013 by 7by7

[Jay Sata]

Hi Thomas

I was suggesting asking your accountant for financial advice in terms of the income from both countries.

You may possibly have paid too much tax and have a rebate coming your way which can be added to this years income.

If you are paying tax in the UK and self employed I'd also be asking about claiming back the air fare to Australia.

I have met people before who file their self assessment without using an accountant. It's false economy as the fees are tax deductible.

[Bladefire]

I have no doubt he is self employed. 20 per cent tax deducted at source. Pays his own ni contributions. I submitted my accounts with only 8 months salary, but met the requirements. The forms are very difficult to understand. I wish you good luck through the minefield. As i said earlier - dont stay for 3 months. Get a lettter from the agency about not supplying wage slips, where you worked, etc. you have to fully explain your financial situation.

[thomas28]

What blade fire has said is same as my situation so I should meet the requirements . Did you send 8 months prior to the application or from previous financial tax year ??

Im working as subcontractor on cis, 20% tax deducted each payslip from the agency . still not sure if I'm classed as a sole trader . I dont think i am according to this link

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cis/intro/con-or-sub.htm#2

[TCA]

You may possibly have paid too much tax and have a rebate coming your way which can be added to this years income. 

Can a tax rebate be counted as income for the visa financial requirement? Is it not all based on gross figures (taxable income) or is it different for self-employed?

[Bladefire]

I sent in my current financial years self assessment - i did submit what tax rebate figure i was in receipt of but dont know if that was counted in the financial requirement. I met it without it. Just make sure your figures/bank statements tally up.

[Bladefire]

If you have a utr, which you have i would think you sre a sole trader. You should have stated that when you went self employed. Ie you dont trade as a company - just work for yourself.

[thomas28]

Blade fire - was you sole trader on CIS scheme ?

[Bladefire]

Yes i am, have a look at your paperwork. I think from what you are saying, you get paid by cheque in the uk