Mitsubishi water pump

[Gentmartin]

Hello Ladies and gents. I live in 3 story townhouse and my water pump is driving me crazy. It constantly chirups and every now and then turns itself on and stays on. I cant find any diagrams or instructions anywhere. Does anyone have any advice please. It would be seriously appreciated. Thank you.

PS there are no leaks on the system as Ive checked thoroughly but i wondered if maybe there is air in the system as about 10 mins after taking a shower there is gurgling to be heard !

[Carlos Primeros]

There might be a problem with the pressure switch. Maybe it is broken and has to be replaced. Or maybe the pressure is not set correctly in the pressure tank.

Check it out

Cheers, Carlos

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[NanLaew]

Switch off the pump power.

Turn of the pump inlet valve.

Run a tap/faucet until the water stops flowing. Leave it open!

Turn off the pump outlet valve.

Unscrew the bottom air tank drain cap (be careful as the first water will be under pressure so don't lose the cap!)

Open both the valves on the top, just enough so water and air can vent (under pressure again so be careful)

As the water flowing from tank drain slows, completely open the smaller of the top two caps.

Once the water stops draining from the bottom tank, replace the bottom cap.

Tighten down both the caps on the pump top.

Turn on the inlet AND outlet valves.

Switch on the pump power.

Pump will run up to pressure and water (and air) will flow from the still open tap/faucet.

When water flow from tap/faucet is clear of air, turn it off.

The pump should run for a few more seconds until system pressurised and it cuts off.

Turn on the tap/faucet and observe normal pump cycle time and constant water flow.

Turn off tap/faucet.

Problem sorted!

PS. Repeat when it happens again after a few weeks/months.

[Nowhereman60]

Had a similar problem with my water pump last week. It was the flow switch in my case. The motor would turn on and never turn of. Had to disconnect the pump and take it to the shop to be analysed. That is where the problem of the flow switch was found. Pump works fine now except the damn shop forgot to install the rubber gasket under the pressure switch. Had to go back to the shop and get that.

[jocko]

Switch off the pump power.

Turn of the pump inlet valve.

Run a tap/faucet until the water stops flowing. Leave it open!

Turn off the pump outlet valve.

Unscrew the bottom air tank drain cap (be careful as the first water will be under pressure so don't lose the cap!)

Open both the valves on the top, just enough so water and air can vent (under pressure again so be careful)

As the water flowing from tank drain slows, completely open the smaller of the top two caps.

Once the water stops draining from the bottom tank, replace the bottom cap.

Tighten down both the caps on the pump top.

Turn on the inlet AND outlet valves.

Switch on the pump power.

Pump will run up to pressure and water (and air) will flow from the still open tap/faucet.

When water flow from tap/faucet is clear of air, turn it off.

The pump should run for a few more seconds until system pressurised and it cuts off.

Turn on the tap/faucet and observe normal pump cycle time and constant water flow.

Turn off tap/faucet.

Problem sorted!

PS. Repeat when it happens again after a few weeks/months.

Good into.

[jocko]

I have been having trouble lately with my pump at night water in above tanks but none in the house the mains water is not good at night so the water has to come from the tank there is no blockage in the tank pipework anyway we get a guy in he released air from the system and it was OK for a while but now the pump is coming on more and can get hot it running when nobody is using water in the house.

I took the cover of and there is a very fine spray coming from the tank caps this wasn't the case before the air was released the caps are on tight I am wondering if there is too much pressure in the pump .

All advice welcome

[Pib]

I have been having trouble lately with my pump at night water in above tanks but none in the house the mains water is not good at night so the water has to come from the tank there is no blockage in the tank pipework anyway we get a guy in he released air from the system and it was OK for a while but now the pump is coming on more and can get hot it running when nobody is using water in the house.

I took the cover of and there is a very fine spray coming from the tank caps this wasn't the case before the air was released the caps are on tight I am wondering if there is too much pressure in the pump .

All advice welcome

That fine spray means you have a pressure leak which in turn would cause the pump to cycle on and off very frequently to rebuilt pressure. You need to get those caps sealed down to where no leak is occurring around the caps which is causing the pressure leak. Recommend you turn off the pump power, drain the pressure, remove both caps to ensure the rubber seals and cap seat are in good condition, and reinstall them.

Now, you can "overtighten" the caps to where plastic threading on the cap itself or in the manifold assembly is damaged/stripped (just like over-tightening a bolt or nut), the cap then loosens easily, and allows water/pressure to leak...that spray you are talking about. I did that on one of my caps. What I ended up have to do was to put a large O-ring metal clamp over the top of the cap and hooked to the manifold assembly to hold the cap securely in place...problem fixed.

And one other time (not too long before I developed above cap problem) I had a pressure switch that would periodically stay engaged (burnt contacts) and caused the pump to run and run and of course build up a higher pressure than normal...I was fortunate in the day that problem developed I was home and noticed the problem within 15 minutes of it occurring. I think that was the first time I noticed a small leak around the cap. Replaced the switch and the problem was fixed (and also kept and cleaned up the contacts on the old switch for possible future emergency spare use). If your current switch is the problem you may be able to fix the problem by killing power to the pump, removing the switch cover (just that one cover screw), cleaning the contacts with some contact cleaner/cleaning out any bugs/ants, and then see how the pump works.

That switch failure may have been the core problem damaging one of my caps although it could have just been me over-tightening the cap....the cap stopped leaking after the switch was fixed.. and I tightened the cap down a little, but I noticed a few weeks later it was leaking again due to be a little loose...I would hand tighten it again...leak gone maybe for a few hours and then it came back due to the cap loosening again. Pressure was fine/not too much as I have a gauge to check for proper pressure....as mentioned above I had to use a O-ring metal clamp to keep it secured down a 100%.

[jocko]

I have been having trouble lately with my pump at night water in above tanks but none in the house the mains water is not good at night so the water has to come from the tank there is no blockage in the tank pipework anyway we get a guy in he released air from the system and it was OK for a while but now the pump is coming on more and can get hot it running when nobody is using water in the house.

I took the cover of and there is a very fine spray coming from the tank caps this wasn't the case before the air was released the caps are on tight I am wondering if there is too much pressure in the pump .

All advice welcome

That fine spray means you have a pressure leak which in turn would cause the pump to cycle on and off very frequently to rebuilt pressure. You need to get those caps sealed down to where no leak is occurring around the caps which is causing the pressure leak. Recommend you turn off the pump power, drain the pressure, remove both caps to ensure the rubber seals and cap seat are in good condition, and reinstall them.

Now, you can "overtighten" the caps to where plastic threading on the cap itself or in the manifold assembly is damaged/stripped (just like over-tightening a bolt or nut), the cap then loosens easily, and allows water/pressure to leak...that spray you are talking about. I did that on one of my caps. What I ended up have to do was to put a large O-ring metal clamp over the top of the cap and hooked to the manifold assembly to hold the cap securely in place...problem fixed.

And one other time (not too long before I developed above cap problem) I had a pressure switch that would periodically stay engaged (burnt contacts) and caused the pump to run and run and of course build up a higher pressure than normal...I was fortunate in the day that problem developed I was home and noticed the problem within 15 minutes of it occurring. I think that was the first time I noticed a small leak around the cap. Replaced the switch and the problem was fixed (and also kept and cleaned up the contacts on the old switch for possible future emergency spare use). If your current switch is the problem you may be able to fix the problem by killing power to the pump, removing the switch cover (just that one cover screw), cleaning the contacts with some contact cleaner/cleaning out any bugs/ants, and then see how the pump works.

That switch failure may have been the core problem damaging one of my caps although it could have just been me over-tightening the cap....the cap stopped leaking after the switch was fixed.. and I tightened the cap down a little, but I noticed a few weeks later it was leaking again due to be a little loose...I would hand tighten it again...leak gone maybe for a few hours and then it came back due to the cap loosening again. Pressure was fine/not too much as I have a gauge to check for proper pressure....as mentioned above I had to use a O-ring metal clamp to keep it secured down a 100%.

Good info I will have another look I have some thread sealing paste which I brought with me from the UK I could try that .

Where did you get the metal clamp?

[HooHaa]

you could just use the white pipe dope/tape available everywhere here

[Pib]

Good info I will have another look I have some thread sealing paste which I brought with me from the UK I could try that .

Where did you get the metal clamp?

Most any hardware store will have these clamps....it's just a big version of the type of clamps you see on water hoses/taps. Measure around the clamping area first to see what diameter/size clamp you'll need to buy. I first tried some Teflon tape warped around the cap threads...kinda like an attempt to build up the diameter of the cap threads while also providing that basic sealant quality, but it didn't help much as I could see the cap threads were now "rounded" on the top versus having inverted V-shape threads where the top of threads where originally like a knife cutting edge. I still had a leak even with Teflon tape because the cap would just loosen too much. The manifold threads which the cap screwed into also seemed rounded on the top.

I really didn't want to try sealants, especially if they dried so hard to make it hard to remove the cap plus I wanted to fix the leak/get the pump operational again "ASAP" versus having to wait X-amount of time for sealant to dry since the cap threads were in bad condition. I guess I could have used sealant and keep the clamp on over night to allow the sealant to dry plus that would have put the pump back into operation ASAP...maybe I'll do that in the future if I feel the sealant will hold the cap and won't blow off while I'm away from home...with the clamp I know the cap won't come off.

What will work best and fastest in your situation will depend on the condition of the threads/rubber seal. See below image of the clamp on one of the pump caps. As mentioned earlier the other cap didn't leak and I didn't have to mess with it.

[jocko]

Got you we call that a jubilee clip good idea.

I agree about thread lock I work on high pressure pipe system and thread lock is usually last resort.

I don't have the leak on the caps now but pump is still on and of all the time I looked inside the pressure switch and its as clean as a whistle as is the flow switch now when you say you had dirty contact on the switch which one as I assume the pressure switch Is just a regulator with the pressure pushing against a spring.

[Pib]

The pump leak you have now fixed may have also allowed the air to leak out of the little 15-20L pressure tank the motor/manifold assembly sets on. This air cushion which is actually compressed air that sets on top of the water in the tank is critical to correct pump operation....no or low air in the tank will cause the pump to cycle on and off with very little water flow occurring somewhere...like maybe a leaky commode bowl valve, a tap dripping water, a small leak in an underground/wall pipe after the pump.

To get that cushion of air (i.e., a compressed air energy spring to push water out when the pump motor is not running), turn power off to the pump, turn off any water input to the pump, turn on a tap to let the water pressure bleed off, turn off any water outlet valve the pump may have, then slowly unscrew the drain plug at the bottom of the tank. Watch out as you almost have the plug completely unscrewed as pressure will still be in the tank and push out the water pretty strongly...not enough to hurt you but enough to blow the drain plug out of your hand. Let the water "completely" drain from the tank because until it drains completely out air can enter the tank through the drain plug. Once the water is drained, screw the plug back in, turn on the water inlet/outlet values and reapply power. The pump will run for about 30 seconds to refill the tank and then cut off....and when I say refill the tank it probably fills up about two-thirds of the way up with water and then the remaining one-third being the air that got compressed. Remember when you let air back into the tank with no water in it the tank was filled with nothing but air...but when you turned the pump on again water came in and eventually pressured/filled the tank while compressing the air. Now you have you cushion of compressed air again...you got your energy spring back to help push out water...the pump motor no longer needs to run all the time.

Now, since the water and air in the tanker are not separated by a rubber bladder the air will eventually/slowly be naturally absorbed into the water loosing your stored energy spring/compressed air cushion unless the air is replenished. From my experience it would take around two weeks although within a few days you will notice the pump is running more. How is the air replenished automatically? It's replenished by the air charger valve on the pump...it's that 6 or 8 sided valve screwed into the tank top with a small diameter PVC hose running from the top of the valve to the water inlet. Every time the pump cycles it adds just a little air to keep the air charge in the tank...but it only adds enough that is based on its design specs and how much air is "naturally" absorbed into the water....it can't compensate for some tank leak that allows the air to unnaturally leak off. This value is nothing more than a rubber diaphragm, a couple of springs and check ball valves on the inside...I've had one fail so far when the rubber diaphragm ruptured/developed a pin hole size leak....it failed at about the 3-4 year point. Until I found and fixed this problem I was draining my tank about every ten days or so to get an air charge back and stop the pump from cycling on and off so durn much...plus, all this cycling on and off was making the pump motor get really hot and a couple of time just stop working completely for about 20 minutes because of the pump motor's built-in overheat switch/breaker would trip and take about 20 minutes to automatically reset itself after the motor cooled down enough.

Yeap, that compressed air cushion in the pressure tank is critical to proper pump operation.

[wayned]

I have a Mitsubishi WP-155 that had a similar problem. It actually was not the caps, but a hairline fracture in the top cover of the pump. I temporiarily fixed it with a homemade clamp but ended up getting a new pump cover. Tha local dealer (100 kilometers away) had to order it from Bangkok. Took 5 days to get and was 600 baht!

[jocko]

The pump leak you have now fixed may have also allowed the air to leak out of the little 15-20L pressure tank the motor/manifold assembly sets on. This air cushion which is actually compressed air that sets on top of the water in the tank is critical to correct pump operation....no or low air in the tank will cause the pump to cycle on and off with very little water flow occurring somewhere...like maybe a leaky commode bowl valve, a tap dripping water, a small leak in an underground/wall pipe after the pump.

To get that cushion of air (i.e., a compressed air energy spring to push water out when the pump motor is not running), turn power off to the pump, turn off any water input to the pump, turn on a tap to let the water pressure bleed off, turn off any water outlet valve the pump may have, then slowly unscrew the drain plug at the bottom of the tank. Watch out as you almost have the plug completely unscrewed as pressure will still be in the tank and push out the water pretty strongly...not enough to hurt you but enough to blow the drain plug out of your hand. Let the water "completely" drain from the tank because until it drains completely out air can enter the tank through the drain plug. Once the water is drained, screw the plug back in, turn on the water inlet/outlet values and reapply power. The pump will run for about 30 seconds to refill the tank and then cut off....and when I say refill the tank it probably fills up about two-thirds of the way up with water and then the remaining one-third being the air that got compressed. Remember when you let air back into the tank with no water in it the tank was filled with nothing but air...but when you turned the pump on again water came in and eventually pressured/filled the tank while compressing the air. Now you have you cushion of compressed air again...you got your energy spring back to help push out water...the pump motor no longer needs to run all the time.

Now, since the water and air in the tanker are not separated by a rubber bladder the air will eventually/slowly be naturally absorbed into the water loosing your stored energy spring/compressed air cushion unless the air is replenished. From my experience it would take around two weeks although within a few days you will notice the pump is running more. How is the air replenished automatically? It's replenished by the air charger valve on the pump...it's that 6 or 8 sided valve screwed into the tank top with a small diameter PVC hose running from the top of the valve to the water inlet. Every time the pump cycles it adds just a little air to keep the air charge in the tank...but it only adds enough that is based on its design specs and how much air is "naturally" absorbed into the water....it can't compensate for some tank leak that allows the air to unnaturally leak off. This value is nothing more than a rubber diaphragm, a couple of springs and check ball valves on the inside...I've had one fail so far when the rubber diaphragm ruptured/developed a pin hole size leak....it failed at about the 3-4 year point. Until I found and fixed this problem I was draining my tank about every ten days or so to get an air charge back and stop the pump from cycling on and off so durn much...plus, all this cycling on and off was making the pump motor get really hot and a couple of time just stop working completely for about 20 minutes because of the pump motor's built-in overheat switch/breaker would trip and take about 20 minutes to automatically reset itself after the motor cooled down enough.

Yeap, that compressed air cushion in the pressure tank is critical to proper pump operation.

Thanks for info but your description of your pump is nothing like mine my pump is permanent pressure it is still going of and on with no visible leaks.

[jocko]

The pump leak you have now fixed may have also allowed the air to leak out of the little 15-20L pressure tank the motor/manifold assembly sets on. This air cushion which is actually compressed air that sets on top of the water in the tank is critical to correct pump operation....no or low air in the tank will cause the pump to cycle on and off with very little water flow occurring somewhere...like maybe a leaky commode bowl valve, a tap dripping water, a small leak in an underground/wall pipe after the pump.

To get that cushion of air (i.e., a compressed air energy spring to push water out when the pump motor is not running), turn power off to the pump, turn off any water input to the pump, turn on a tap to let the water pressure bleed off, turn off any water outlet valve the pump may have, then slowly unscrew the drain plug at the bottom of the tank. Watch out as you almost have the plug completely unscrewed as pressure will still be in the tank and push out the water pretty strongly...not enough to hurt you but enough to blow the drain plug out of your hand. Let the water "completely" drain from the tank because until it drains completely out air can enter the tank through the drain plug. Once the water is drained, screw the plug back in, turn on the water inlet/outlet values and reapply power. The pump will run for about 30 seconds to refill the tank and then cut off....and when I say refill the tank it probably fills up about two-thirds of the way up with water and then the remaining one-third being the air that got compressed. Remember when you let air back into the tank with no water in it the tank was filled with nothing but air...but when you turned the pump on again water came in and eventually pressured/filled the tank while compressing the air. Now you have you cushion of compressed air again...you got your energy spring back to help push out water...the pump motor no longer needs to run all the time.

Now, since the water and air in the tanker are not separated by a rubber bladder the air will eventually/slowly be naturally absorbed into the water loosing your stored energy spring/compressed air cushion unless the air is replenished. From my experience it would take around two weeks although within a few days you will notice the pump is running more. How is the air replenished automatically? It's replenished by the air charger valve on the pump...it's that 6 or 8 sided valve screwed into the tank top with a small diameter PVC hose running from the top of the valve to the water inlet. Every time the pump cycles it adds just a little air to keep the air charge in the tank...but it only adds enough that is based on its design specs and how much air is "naturally" absorbed into the water....it can't compensate for some tank leak that allows the air to unnaturally leak off. This value is nothing more than a rubber diaphragm, a couple of springs and check ball valves on the inside...I've had one fail so far when the rubber diaphragm ruptured/developed a pin hole size leak....it failed at about the 3-4 year point. Until I found and fixed this problem I was draining my tank about every ten days or so to get an air charge back and stop the pump from cycling on and off so durn much...plus, all this cycling on and off was making the pump motor get really hot and a couple of time just stop working completely for about 20 minutes because of the pump motor's built-in overheat switch/breaker would trip and take about 20 minutes to automatically reset itself after the motor cooled down enough.

Yeap, that compressed air cushion in the pressure tank is critical to proper pump operation.

Thanks for info but your description of your pump is nothing like mine my pump is permanent pressure it is still going of and on with no visible leaks.

I sent photo but didn't show on post

[jocko]

My pump

[Pib]

Looking like the model you were talking about is a "constant pressure" type which is suppose to run all the time water is being drawn. It also has a small pressure tank which is that approx 2 liter size bottle shape thing...the one with the label on it showing a rubber diaphragm which keeps the water and air cushion separated...keeps the air from being absorbed into the water causing your air cushion/compressed air to disappear. And actually although say "air" in those bottle they use nitrogen. If the rubber diaphragm has ruptured the air/nitrogen would be absorbed/disappear within a few weeks at the most...and that would make the air bottle useless....just like it wasn't even there. And even if the air/nitrogen happened to very slowly leak out some way it doesn't look like you have an air valve on top to re-add air....there's a little cap up there which appears to be a factory seal cap versus actually having a value under the cap where you can add air like a car tire. Anyway the main purpose of this small pressure bottle/tank is to keep the pump from kicking on all the time when drawing a small amount of water (like a glass full of water) or preventing the pump from having to kick on quite frequently due to a small leak somewhere like a commode bowl water value leak, a tap leak, a leak underground/in the walls, etc...leaks can come in all sizes from a few drops per minute to a lot more per minute....and of course they can occur most anywhere.

Now, "if" your pressure bottle is the problem/waterlogged (it may be fine), even a very small leak anywhere after the pump outlet would cause the constant pressure pump to kick on a lot, apparently when there is no water usage anywhere. The leak is reducing the pressure your pipes and pump and the pump kicks on to rebuilt the pressure. The other possible problem could be the water pressure regulator value/box assembly just before the water outlet.

[jocko]

Looking like the model you were talking about is a "constant pressure" type which is suppose to run all the time water is being drawn. It also has a small pressure tank which is that approx 2 liter size bottle shape thing...the one with the label on it showing a rubber diaphragm which keeps the water and air cushion separated...keeps the air from being absorbed into the water causing your air cushion/compressed air to disappear. And actually although say "air" in those bottle they use nitrogen. If the rubber diaphragm has ruptured the air/nitrogen would be absorbed/disappear within a few weeks at the most...and that would make the air bottle useless....just like it wasn't even there. And even if the air/nitrogen happened to very slowly leak out some way it doesn't look like you have an air valve on top to re-add air....there's a little cap up there which appears to be a factory seal cap versus actually having a value under the cap where you can add air like a car tire. Anyway the main purpose of this small pressure bottle/tank is to keep the pump from kicking on all the time when drawing a small amount of water (like a glass full of water) or preventing the pump from having to kick on quite frequently due to a small leak somewhere like a commode bowl water value leak, a tap leak, a leak underground/in the walls, etc...leaks can come in all sizes from a few drops per minute to a lot more per minute....and of course they can occur most anywhere.

Now, "if" your pressure bottle is the problem/waterlogged (it may be fine), even a very small leak anywhere after the pump outlet would cause the constant pressure pump to kick on a lot, apparently when there is no water usage anywhere. The leak is reducing the pressure your pipes and pump and the pump kicks on to rebuilt the pressure. The other possible problem could be the water pressure regulator value/box assembly just before the water outlet.

Good info again you are right about when i draw the smallest amount of water the pump kicks in and is on and of day and night.

So what is the cure can I check the diaphragm by unscrewing it from the base for a visual inspection , buy a new one and see if that is the cure.

Would I get air in the system by removing the bottle.

As it happens big c has the same pump on display I will go and see if that has a top up valve on the bottle .

It looks like process of elimination might have to take place or a new pump.

It drives me crazy when I hear the pump constantly kicking in.

Doesn't bother the wife when I mention it she says

"Buy new one"

Easy come easy go.

I wish.

[wayned]

I use the same type of pump in one application. It does have an air valve on top. When the faucet is turned on slow the pump cylses on and off quite often. When the faucet is fully opened it runs all of the time. I pressureize the tank with a bicycle pump to about 8psi and it does reduce the cycling.

[Pib]

Good info again you are right about when i draw the smallest amount of water the pump kicks in and is on and of day and night.

So what is the cure can I check the diaphragm by unscrewing it from the base for a visual inspection , buy a new one and see if that is the cure.

Would I get air in the system by removing the bottle.

As it happens big c has the same pump on display I will go and see if that has a top up valve on the bottle .

It looks like process of elimination might have to take place or a new pump.

It drives me crazy when I hear the pump constantly kicking in.

Doesn't bother the wife when I mention it she says

"Buy new one"

Easy come easy go.

I wish.

jocko,

Do you have a cutoff valve shortly after the pump outlet? Some way to shut off all water leaving the pump to see if your cycling is being caused by leaks after the water leaves the pump. And even better if you also have a put inlet cutoff valve to completely isolate the pump to see if the problem is being caused by leaks after the pump output or possibly even backflow from the pump's inlet...usually pumps have a built in backflow valve which prevents the input pressure from leaking back into your input water storage tank, well, soi water lines since they will be at a lower pressure than the pressure inside you pump. What I'm saying the pressure could actually leak off from the input or output of your pump.

Regarding the valve on the pressure bottle...I've seen pressure bottles and tanks of all sizes...the larger ones will come with air valve which you can check pressure and read pressure. Usually the little pressure bottles like you have are pressurized to around 1 bar/15psi...it should say on the bottle what the pressure should be even if pressure can be readded or not. Can you unscrew the cap on top with some plyers or is it a welded/sealed type cap that won't come off. If you can get the cap off you would know if it has the kind of typical valve you could use a typical tire pump to readd pressure....but it may be a special valve that was just meant for fill at the factory/during manufacturer.

On those tanks where you can easily add/adjust pressure through the valve one troubleshooting method to see if the rubber diaphrapm is rupture was to press the valve stem to see if only air came out...if water comes out then the bladder is ruptured/tank water logged. Time for a new pressure bottle. But first you really need to "isolate" your pump at least cut off the water right after the pump outlet before the pipes go underground/into concrete. If the pump still cycles with, then even with a waterlogged/ruptured pressure bottle the pump should not cycle simply because it shouldn't be losing pressure anywhere...if it still cycles then you have a pump problem.

Have you check for commode bowl float valve leaks...you might not even notice/hear such a leak with close look inside the bowl...it the water overflowing into the overflow tube...if so there a leak. Try to isolate the pump to confirm it not a house leak somewhere. Those pressure bottles can be bought sometimes at some hardware stores and of course from pump repair shops if you need to replace it...but don't assume it's bad until you do more testing...good luck.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Pib

[jocko]

Good info again you are right about when i draw the smallest amount of water the pump kicks in and is on and of day and night.

So what is the cure can I check the diaphragm by unscrewing it from the base for a visual inspection , buy a new one and see if that is the cure.

Would I get air in the system by removing the bottle.

As it happens big c has the same pump on display I will go and see if that has a top up valve on the bottle .

It looks like process of elimination might have to take place or a new pump.

It drives me crazy when I hear the pump constantly kicking in.

Doesn't bother the wife when I mention it she says

"Buy new one"

Easy come easy go.

I wish.

jocko,

Do you have a cutoff valve shortly after the pump outlet? Some way to shut off all water leaving the pump to see if your cycling is being caused by leaks after the water leaves the pump. And even better if you also have a put inlet cutoff valve to completely isolate the pump to see if the problem is being caused by leaks after the pump output or possibly even backflow from the pump's inlet...usually pumps have a built in backflow valve which prevents the input pressure from leaking back into your input water storage tank, well, soi water lines since they will be at a lower pressure than the pressure inside you pump. What I'm saying the pressure could actually leak off from the input or output of your pump.

Regarding the valve on the pressure bottle...I've seen pressure bottles and tanks of all sizes...the larger ones will come with air valve which you can check pressure and read pressure. Usually the little pressure bottles like you have are pressurized to around 1 bar/15psi...it should say on the bottle what the pressure should be even if pressure can be readded or not. Can you unscrew the cap on top with some plyers or is it a welded/sealed type cap that won't come off. If you can get the cap off you would know if it has the kind of typical valve you could use a typical tire pump to readd pressure....but it may be a special valve that was just meant for fill at the factory/during manufacturer.

On those tanks where you can easily add/adjust pressure through the valve one troubleshooting method to see if the rubber diaphrapm is rupture was to press the valve stem to see if only air came out...if water comes out then the bladder is ruptured/tank water logged. Time for a new pressure bottle. But first you really need to "isolate" your pump at least cut off the water right after the pump outlet before the pipes go underground/into concrete. If the pump still cycles with, then even with a waterlogged/ruptured pressure bottle the pump should not cycle simply because it shouldn't be losing pressure anywhere...if it still cycles then you have a pump problem.

Have you check for commode bowl float valve leaks...you might not even notice/hear such a leak with close look inside the bowl...it the water overflowing into the overflow tube...if so there a leak. Try to isolate the pump to confirm it not a house leak somewhere. Those pressure bottles can be bought sometimes at some hardware stores and of course from pump repair shops if you need to replace it...but don't assume it's bad until you do more testing...good luck.

It seems I have a leak somewhere in the outlet pipework

I closed the valve on the pipe and the pump did not kick in and as soon as I opened the valve the pump started there is no obvious leaks in the house I can see I checked the bowl etc so it looks like I will have to put up with it.

The pump doesn't get hot as it is only running in short burst's.

Thanks for your input I have learned a lot from your posts

[Pib]

If your commode bowl has a cutoff valve just before the water enters the bowl (like mine do) then checking the commode bowl valve for leaks will be easy and fast vs having to removing the bowl top to see if the water level keeps rising slowly until it flows into the overflow outlet tube. But if the water level is "right at the overflow tube inlet slowly flowing into it" then the float value is leaking or the float is maladjusted allowing the water to rise too high.