Estimated income from 250 Longon and 100 Maprang trees?

[bangkokchris0967]

Hello,

Newbe.

Spent 5 hours searching for my answer. Many topics went, off topic. LOL

I realize there are many factors. I am only looking for general answers.

Just planted. First harvest in 3-5 years. Looking long-term 15-20 years when trees are full grown.

Planted in the South-East hills. Plenty of water. Good soil.

Thank You !

[bangkokchris0967]

Did not realize how tough a question this would be !!!!!

[zeichen]

So many factors an variables will go into how many kilos per tree. It really could be as low as 1kilo and as high as 50kilo.

Also depends on what type they are, when they are ripe, what size fruit you actually get, what kind of fertilizers, pesticides that you use or what pest management systems that you have instead of pesticides.

For 3 years my father's longan fields over 30 rai with at least 600 trees all at least 10 years old or older and regularly maintained, weren't watered or fertilized because it cost him more than he was getting from the harvests. Even Thaksin suggested to stop growing llamyai and grow peppers or other things that China wasn't cheaper at growing.

But if I was going to pull some numbers out of my butt, I would imagine that you could make maybe with an excellent harvest 150k a year after you pay off labor, water, fertilizer etc. But some years you might actually lose money. The year after free trade with China Dad got 5 baht a kilo for his lamyai, now it is back up to a more normal rate about 15-20 baht a kilo.

[bangkokchris0967]

Thanks for taking the time to answer. The trees were planted to add a little extra income in my wife's and I retirement years. Another egg in the basket so-to-speak. So, even an extra 10-12,000 baht per month will help pay some bills.

Just discovered, that my father-in-law is far-sighted and plant several dozen aloe trees(about 10 years ago). Checked this link out. I had no idea the value of these trees, or should say the resin they produce !!!

http://www.lookatvietnam.com/2010/08/aloe-wood-turns-rural-men-into-billionaires.html

[IsaanAussie]

Thanks for taking the time to answer. The trees were planted to add a little extra income in my wife's and I retirement years. Another egg in the basket so-to-speak. So, even an extra 10-12,000 baht per month will help pay some bills.

Just discovered, that my father-in-law is far-sighted and plant several dozen aloe trees(about 10 years ago). Checked this link out. I had no idea the value of these trees, or should say the resin they produce !!!

http://www.lookatvietnam.com/2010/08/aloe-wood-turns-rural-men-into-billionaires.html

Chris,

I hope you find what you are looking for and wish you well but you will need to rethink. A few dozen of anything here will keep you fed in season and hungry for the rest of the year. I would suggest you look at the rate at which you will use your current assets and plan your expenses to suit. The few and rare baht that come from the micro sized farm will be absorbed and make zero difference. Turn it around and base your logic on what you have, what you know, and most importantly what you can control.

[IsaanAussie]

Thanks for taking the time to answer. The trees were planted to add a little extra income in my wife's and I retirement years. Another egg in the basket so-to-speak. So, even an extra 10-12,000 baht per month will help pay some bills.

Just discovered, that my father-in-law is far-sighted and plant several dozen aloe trees(about 10 years ago). Checked this link out. I had no idea the value of these trees, or should say the resin they produce !!!

http://www.lookatvietnam.com/2010/08/aloe-wood-turns-rural-men-into-billionaires.html

Chris,

I hope you find what you are looking for and wish you well but you will need to rethink. A few dozen of anything here will keep you fed in season and hungry for the rest of the year. I would suggest you look at the rate at which you will use your current assets and plan your expenses to suit. The few and rare baht that come from the micro sized farm will be absorbed and make zero difference. Turn it around and base your logic on what you have, what you know, and most importantly what you can control.

[IsaanAussie]

Thanks for taking the time to answer. The trees were planted to add a little extra income in my wife's and I retirement years. Another egg in the basket so-to-speak. So, even an extra 10-12,000 baht per month will help pay some bills.

Just discovered, that my father-in-law is far-sighted and plant several dozen aloe trees(about 10 years ago). Checked this link out. I had no idea the value of these trees, or should say the resin they produce !!!

http://www.lookatvietnam.com/2010/08/aloe-wood-turns-rural-men-into-billionaires.html

Chris,

I hope you find what you are looking for and wish you well but you will need to rethink. A few dozen of anything here will keep you fed in season and hungry for the rest of the year. I would suggest you look at the rate at which you will use your current assets and plan your expenses to suit. The few and rare baht that come from the micro sized farm will be absorbed and make zero difference. Turn it around and base your logic on what you have, what you know, and most importantly what you can control.

[IsaanAussie]

Thanks for taking the time to answer. The trees were planted to add a little extra income in my wife's and I retirement years. Another egg in the basket so-to-speak. So, even an extra 10-12,000 baht per month will help pay some bills.

Just discovered, that my father-in-law is far-sighted and plant several dozen aloe trees(about 10 years ago). Checked this link out. I had no idea the value of these trees, or should say the resin they produce !!!

http://www.lookatvietnam.com/2010/08/aloe-wood-turns-rural-men-into-billionaires.html

Chris,

I hope you find what you are looking for and wish you well but you will need to rethink. A few dozen of anything here will keep you fed in season and hungry for the rest of the year. I would suggest you look at the rate at which you will use your current assets and plan your expenses to suit. The few and rare baht that come from the micro sized farm will be absorbed and make zero difference. Turn it around and base your logic on what you have, what you know, and most importantly what you can control.

[zeichen]

again, you got me wrong, you cannot count on orchards to give you a monthly income. you will spend and spend and spend all year keeping them watered, weeded, pruned and fertilized, then once a year you will harvest and may make some thing. So you cannot count on this to give you an extra 10k a month.

Again the alloe won't give you much either unless you had all of your orchard full, and then you would need some kind of skill set for harvest. So you won't make anything from that because no commercial outfit is going to come and harvest just a few trees.

Personally, I would wait until the orchard is fully grown and then try and sell it to some unsuspecting person who thinks that they can make any kind of profit from that land. you might double your investment on the land if you sell it as a parking lot.

Llamyai is pretty much a dead commodity but unfortunately it was Thailand's northern cash crop for centuries so it is hard for farmers to break tradition.

[bangkokchris0967]

But the article stated the farmers made 1.68 million US dollars from 28 pounds of resin. ("the size of my calf')

I am no farmer, by any means,(which is one reason I joined this site) but are you telling me that I could not yield at least 30 pounds of resin (once I stripped the bark and let the mold do its trick) from 36 aloe trees?

I do like the idea of reselling the land idea.

Again, I'm a newbe

Thanks!

BC

[bangkokchris0967]

again, you got me wrong, you cannot count on orchards to give you a monthly income. you will spend and spend and spend all year keeping them watered, weeded, pruned and fertilized, then once a year you will harvest and may make some thing. So you cannot count on this to give you an extra 10k a month.

Again the alloe won't give you much either unless you had all of your orchard full, and then you would need some kind of skill set for harvest. So you won't make anything from that because no commercial outfit is going to come and harvest just a few trees.

Personally, I would wait until the orchard is fully grown and then try and sell it to some unsuspecting person who thinks that they can make any kind of profit from that land. you might double your investment on the land if you sell it as a parking lot.

Llamyai is pretty much a dead commodity but unfortunately it was Thailand's northern cash crop for centuries so it is hard for farmers to break tradition.

Z,

I was just averaging the amount. I realize you get one lump sum per year.

Again, just another egg in the basket. We have plenty of land to grow different types of trees.

Which trees/fruit would you say are the most profitable?

Thanks!

BC

[Jasun]

If you are sitting on dozen of mature trees laden with 'Mai Khritsana', you'll do fine. But normally, there's no guarantee the Aloe trees will produce the heartwood with resin.

[bangkokchris0967]

Is there no way to artificially help the trees produce the resin?

[harryfrompattaya]

Is there no way to artificially help the trees produce the resin?

sorry to say you are not a farmer and the farmers you know are poor so how do you learn? Poor people the world over can only teach you to be poor.

Stop buying land at a high price.

Edited August 2, 2013 by harryfrompattaya

[bangkokchris0967]

Is there no way to artificially help the trees produce the resin?

sorry to say you are not a farmer and the farmers you know are poor so how do you learn? Poor people the world over can only teach you to be poor.

Stop buying land at a high price.

Thanks for your input.

However.......................

I was offered 1,000,000 baht for the lot I bought 7 years ago for 40,000 baht.

Location, location, location

[bangkokchris0967]

Harry,

There must be a process to produce resin from Aloe trees, as people have done so for thousands of years.

You think the resin is only "found" by people?

[harryfrompattaya]

Is there no way to artificially help the trees produce the resin?

sorry to say you are not a farmer and the farmers you know are poor so how do you learn? Poor people the world over can only teach you to be poor.

Stop buying land at a high price.

Thanks for your input.

However.......................

I was offered 1,000,000 baht for the lot I bought 7 years ago for 40,000 baht.

Location, location, location

Sell it for 1,000,000 baht buy some for 1,000,000 and guess what you will have 25,000,000 in 7 years

Buy land for 25,000,000 and in 7 years you will have 625,000,000

As you say Location Location Location Just do it

Edited August 2, 2013 by harryfrompattaya

[bangkokchris0967]

That's just one of our lots, others have not increased as much or none at all.

Not selling the above mentioned lot for many, many years.

1,000,000 baht today..what will it be worth in 10-15 years when I retire?

Or perhaps I'll just lease the land for 100,000 baht or more per month. Its near a town and the town is getting closing every year.

Like I said, don't mind sitting and waiting, I have plenty of years I can wait.................

[tingtong]

but really, what advice you looking for?

you seem to have immense success with location, location, location, plenty eggs in those baskets, and 100.000/month lease ideas...

not to mention your own aloe tree fortune, where you will have millions of USD surely...

what do you think some lowly farming ppl could tell in this forum for you, that you doesnt seem to know?

just as a thought, if you so sure on the aloetree project, and you have plenty of years to wait, then why suddenly think to bother with lamyai? or anything else that matter?

just plant more of those would be your obvious choice...?

[Jasun]

Is there no way to artificially help the trees produce the resin?

It's a reaction to a mould, so i'm guessing there'd be people trying it. But if it were easy...

[bangkokchris0967]

The fruit trees was my idea for my new wife's land. It wasn't until I toured the familie's land(after the fruit trees were planted) that I was shown the Aloe trees.

I was told not to mention the trees to anyone. I began to wonder why these trees were so special and started Googling.(a few days ago) I started this topic before I knew the value of Aloe trees/resin

It was then I discovered the resin is rare and valuable.

I was planning to plant more trees on the land I bought near my in-laws. Partly, because I always wanted to be a "Gentleman Farmer" (i.e. someone else does the work)

But, now I am rethinking my plans..........

I was hoping someone else was planting the same trees and could offer some numbers.

[bangkokchris0967]

Is there no way to artificially help the trees produce the resin?

It's a reaction to a mould, so i'm guessing there'd be people trying it. But if it were easy...

Only, if you have 20-30 years......................... the trees are 10-15 years old. Tick - tock

Then the trees have to be protected, because someone could steal the resin.

In the USA people plant Blank Walnut or Black Cherry trees when their young and harvest them in 30-40 years for retirement or pass them on to their children.

Hardwoods cab be very $$$$$ in the US

[zeichen]

The trees might take 100 years to develop that resin. LOL Not 20. Your grandkids may be able to sell it but most likely the trees will get a disease and die before that happens.

I love this get rich quick schemes city people have on rural farm lands.

I have to call BS on buying a piece of land for 40k baht 7 years ago and now worth 1 million. 1 rai of farm land doesn't sell for 1 million baht. Or perhaps it is bigger than 1 rai. Even from urban sprawl you don't get that kind of return. But as you said keep it and watch how valuable it will be in another 20 years. You might even be able to buy dinner for your whole family.

Land is not the best investment. It doesn't always appreciate. I know quite a few people who bought and built some nice houses 10 years ago and the value of the land is now half what it once was.

All it takes is some person hoarding 1000 rai of land in that area to just dump it all on the market.

But like you said, you know more than all of us. So why even bother coming for advice. You are rich and definitely know something that we don't know.

Sorry for the sarcasm and the attitude but it gets old quick. I was raised on a farm and been around it my whole life and see how people work hard and plan and actually develop decent skills and then watch some city dupe come in and raise the value of the land in the area so no one can afford to farm anymore.

[IsaanAussie]

BC,

The are no get rich schemes in farming here, or other places that I know of. Reverse your thinking on the Aloe resin for a second. If the process was easy than more people would do it and the price you stated would shrink fastest than Alice in Wonderland eating a mushroom. Have you researched the resin "industry"? Where is it being done and in what quantities? How specialised is the process? What does the supply chain look like, is it cartel controlled? Is the price you quote for the raw resin or after some expensive transformation processing?

On land purchases, at the moment the world is not a stable place. The USA is a mess with a rampant government. Thailand is murmuring about coups and expected financial fire storm at the end of the year over the car buyers schemes. As stated by others land prices may not improve in the short to medium term. What we are seeing now is largely caused by speculation over the ASEAN Economic Community start up. Free Trade Agreements with the Chinese hardly did the fruit farmers here any good, so I cannot see AEC benefiting Thailand to a huge degree.

Sum it all up since you have time, wait and watch for a while. Spend more on research.

I started thinking about these Aloe trees, I nothing about them just about aloe vera plants. So I did a simple wiki search and came up with another name which has been discussed here before "agarwood". No wonder your FIL knew all about this "next best thing".

For anyone interested see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agarwood

Edited August 3, 2013 by IsaanAussie

[zeichen]

I too did some reading and found some other articles that talked about what fungus actually is used. There are many grades of the resin in the wood also. Commercial manipulation is possible but produces a lower quality and as Issaan said the price is for the extracted resin not raw wood.

Less than 7% of this type of tree will ever produce the resin naturally. So you would literally need 1000's of trees to get enough to make it worth it, but then you would also need to prune, water, fertilize and maintain pest management for 20-30 years upwards to 50 years. So you would spend at least 10k a year for 100 trees for 50 years.

Still no response to the BS call on 40k piece of land now worth 1 mil? I could see 400k now wroth 1 mil but 40k, get real no land is worth that unless you discover a mine or oil. Even urban sprawl wouldn't make land that valuable over a 7year period.

Stay in BKk and give up the romanticization of farm land.

[IsaanAussie]

BC,

We are really just nice guys that occasionally get the "bark rubbed off", pun intended. The trouble with planning long term based on an attractive proposition in the public domain already is you will not be alone. Good example is rubber, a shortage 7 or 8 years ago, so plant your trees. Now oversupply to falling demand and some guys will not cut a tree they have waited years for and is now ready. There was a lot of noise about agarwood on this forum and others which whilst I did not follow them, it may be worth yours hours and contacting some of the participants by PM.

Edited August 3, 2013 by IsaanAussie

[RedBullHorn]

Busy cutting grasses with the bush cutter and...

Oops ! "Terak !!! I just chop down one of your Krisana sapling !..." (Agarwood)

She pop her head out the window and yell "You owe me ฿50'000 ! "

I ask, "How long the saplings seller said the tree will be ready for nailing ?" (chemical input)

"He said 7 years and last month you chopped off another ! Now you owe me ฿100'000 ! "

"Ok~ I'll pay you on the 7th year. "

[bangkokchris0967]

Believe me or not regarding the land. Not farm land and more than 1 rai. Its the location. And I was lucky on that particular lot.

If you followed the link about the farmers, it was from one tree.

36 trees or 3600 trees all you need is for one tree to produce the resin. And you don't need to prune anything, how silly is that? Pruning an Aloe tree !? for what purpose? Aloe wood goes by many names as there are many different kinds.

Doesn't take 100 years or there would be no one growing it now, the trees are infected with the mold by the grower.

Never said I knew everything- the title of my question supports that. Which rec'd little replies. Although I know you don't buy land from an expat, Thais only and my Thai friends and family members act as agents, because as most of you know as soon as a Thai knows an expat is buying the price goes up.

Not one person on this site growing maprang trees?

Try to stay positive, studies prove you'll live longer.

Peace.

BC

[bangkokchris0967]

I know quite a few people who bought and built some nice houses 10 years ago and the value of the land is now half what it once was.

Value only matters if you plan on selling the land. Why would anyone buy land/house fron an expat? Buy land from Thais who have to sell for whatever reason.

[bangkokchris0967]

http://www.epicpalms.com/introduction-of-agarwood.

Harvest Of Agarwood / Production Of Agarwood

Factors such as the age of the tree or the size of the tree trunk cannot decide the harvest time of commercially grown agarwood. Agarwood trees can be harvested only when the production of the aromatic trunk is complete and the tree starts drying up. Generally, when agarwood is grown as a commercial crop, harvesting has to be done at a specified time for certain trees, making it a constant operation.

On an average, if the commercially grown agarwood trees catch fungal infection when they are 5-6 years old, then there are ready for harvest around their 10^th years. Going by this timeframe, returns from agarwood trees can be expected 8-10 years after they are planted.

In rainforest areas, many varieties of fungi and bacteria float about. When agarwood trees are damaged either naturally or artificially, fungus enters the tree. As the fungal infection progresses, the tree produces a dark aromatic resin in response to the attack, which results in a very dense, dark, resin embedded heartwood. Here, fungi only spreads primary infection and does not multiply or attack the entire tree. Let’s see how agar develops.

When the agarwood tree is about seven years old, the trunk of the tree is attacked by fungi through naturally formed holes. The fungi that enter the tree trunk thus are of different varieties – Ascomycetes, Deuteromycetes, Aspergillus, Botryodiplodia, Diplodia – and they sometimes move in a zig zag fashion. As these fungi go about injuring the inside of the tree trunk, the tree offers resistance to it and brings the development of fungi to a standstill. Because of these chemical reactions inside the tree trunk, a white, milky substance called oleoresin is produced. Finally, a large quantity of dark brown agarwood is produced on the tree trunk.

About 3-6 years are needed for the production of resin wood from the tree that undergoes primary infection. This production is dependent on a number of factors including the quantity of oleoresin produced, its density, primary fungal infection area, etc.

Once the production of aromatic trunk or agarwood is complete, the tree slowly starts drying up, signaling its readiness to be harvested. In conclusion, it can be said that resin wood or agarwood is the result of the working of oleoresin and tiny living organisms. The resinous or infected part of the tree will be heavier than the other parts of the tree.