Apprentice Asia Thai Contestant Competitiveness a Reflection of Thailand's Lacking Competitiveness?

[PaullyW]

Not sure who has watched this show. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Apprentice_Asia

The Thai contestant quit in only the 3rd week saying she "felt that the cut-throat and ultra-competitive team dynamics did not suit her style of working, with team members being disrespectful to one another."

None among the other contestants on the show quit, and as you may know a Filipino won.

My opinion is that Thai contestant's reaction to a competitive environment is an excellent reflection of Thailand generally. I was astounded when she quit and the reason she gave. It beggars belief what she thought the entire who and competition was all about.

Perhaps our generalisations about average (and even among the top Thais) lacking of competitiveness of Thais is not so far off the mark?

Here is one view which is softens the critique of the Thai contestant attributing her quitting to a saibaidee attitude which claims that if something doesn't suit you, you move on to something that does. I think it's letting her off too easily. Competition doesn't suit her? Then why sign up for the show in the first place?

http://www.rappler.com/business/31780-apprentice-asia-asian-business-styles

Edited August 2, 2013 by PaullyW

[robblok]

Maybe, maybe not if you feel something does not work for you why not quit. I would not stay in a job that I hated. She might have been right but an other Thai might have been able to do it.

I do find that there should be more competition with foreign products and services in Thailand to get better quality as now there are a lot of monopolies and the market is shielded with high import taxes. This however does not mean that someone has to stay in a job that they know is not good for them.

[trainman34014]

Probably not enough 'Bong, dong, quack, whistle' and other stupid noises on the show to keep her happy.

[Payboy]

When you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

[h90]

Well Thais aren't all the same.

Not all Germans are good technicians, not all Americans are uneducated, not all Russians drink Vodka.

And even if generalized there are big cultural differences between North, Northeast, South, Deep South, central, Chinese ethnic, etc etc.

Some are more relaxed some are more competitive.

[robblok]

Well Thais aren't all the same.

Not all Germans are good technicians, not all Americans are uneducated, not all Russians drink Vodka.

And even if generalized there are big cultural differences between North, Northeast, South, Deep South, central, Chinese ethnic, etc etc.

Some are more relaxed some are more competitive.

Great post,

If you just look at your own country and see how much you differ from others who live in it how can you think its not the same for Thais.

My gf is totally different compared to her sisters in how she thinks and acts. Not all Thais are clones from each-other though there is of course a famous example

[TheWalkingMan]

I recall watching The Amazing Race Asia and on two different seasons they had Thai competitors. One set was a couple of babes (I think they were models or some type of entertainment people) who did not like roughing it and the other was a guy and girl who, I believe, were just friends.

Anyway, the girl of the guy and girl team pretty much quit, but the guy wanted to fight it out and continue. The babes whinged a lot and did not put in any effort and were relieved to be eliminated.

Overall, I thought it was pretty weak of them to come on to a show where they know the circumstances and then either quit or not put in an effort.

[PaullyW]

Well Thais aren't all the same.

Not all Germans are good technicians, not all Americans are uneducated, not all Russians drink Vodka.

And even if generalized there are big cultural differences between North, Northeast, South, Deep South, central, Chinese ethnic, etc etc.

Some are more relaxed some are more competitive.

Great post, 

 

If you just look at your own country and see how much you differ from others who live in it how can you think its not the same for Thais.

 

My gf is totally different compared to her sisters in how she thinks and acts. Not all Thais are clones from each-other though there is of course a famous example 

I think your post's heart is in the correct place, but I don't agree with it.

Most here will be familiar with the Asian proverb "the nail that sticks out gets hammered".

In my experience Thais and Asians are generally much more alike than are non Asians. In fact their emphasis on sameness is at the core of many aspects of their culture.

So, I don't think comparison Thais to Westerners in the way you have is particularly accurate. Of course however there is difference among Thais. Nobody could argue with that.

My argument would be that Thais are fundamentally disadvantaged, not because they lack some mental capacity but rather because at the core of their national psyche are

FACE, Extreme Conflict Avoidance & 'sabaidee/maibenrai' culture.

Those three things form a potent hurdle to them being competitive globally (as individuals).

[Thai at Heart]

Why fight when you are top of the pile..

[longballlarry]

Probably not enough 'Bong, dong, quack, whistle' and other stupid noises on the show to keep her happy.

[homeownership]

The Thai contestant did not show enough trait of megalamania or the personality of squid ink. like the finalist this week.

[bonobo]

I was baffled when she quit, too. But this is not just a Thai thing. Several contestants have quit the US version of Survivor, and I am sure others have quit other such shows. With literally hundreds of thousands of people clamoring to get on that show, at least, how can anyone have the temerity to quit?

[PaullyW]

I was baffled when she quit, too. But this is not just a Thai thing. Several contestants have quit the US version of Survivor, and I am sure others have quit other such shows. With literally hundreds of thousands of people clamoring to get on that show, at least, how can anyone have the temerity to quit?

What's different about her is the way in which she quit and the excuse she gave.

Basically, she said the ultra-competitiveness does not suit her work style. Put another way, she is comfortable in a work style that is not ultra-competitive. That's very revealing indeed. And, even the critique in the article at the last link in the OP singles her out as the most obvious quitter on the show.

As for the comparison with shows like Survivor, I'm not sure it's a good comparison. Quitting a business reality show and a decidedly much more difficult - esp. physically - reality show like Survivor is slightly different. Also, when was the last time you heard someone essentially say -- "I cannot function in a competitive environment"? They might quit and say something like "the competition was too difficult for me, and I didn't think I could win in the the environment, so I quit".

The Thai candidates admission is much more revealing than she probably thought. She would have been better off just simply admitting that the competition was too severe for her.

Edited August 3, 2013 by PaullyW

[benalibina]

I was baffled when she quit, too. But this is not just a Thai thing. Several contestants have quit the US version of Survivor, and I am sure others have quit other such shows. With literally hundreds of thousands of people clamoring to get on that show, at least, how can anyone have the temerity to quit?

What's different about her is the way in which she quit and the excuse she gave.

Basically, she said the ultra-competitiveness does not suit her work style. Put another way, she is comfortable in a work style that is not ultra-competitive. That's very revealing indeed. And, even the critique in the article at the last link in the OP singles her out as the most obvious quitter on the show.

As for the comparison with shows like Survivor, I'm not sure it's a good comparison. Quitting a business reality show and a decidedly much more difficult - esp. physically - reality show like Survivor is slightly different. Also, when was the last time you heard someone essentially say -- "I cannot function in a competitive environment"? They might quit and say something like "the competition was too difficult for me, and I didn't think I could win in the the environment, so I quit".

The Thai candidates admission is much more revealing than she probably thought. She would have been better off just simply admitting that the competition was too severe for her.

'Finally' a thai woman is honest and shows selfreflection. Good me thinks !

[Payboy]

A lone Thai is a fish out of water.

[krisb]

Well Thais aren't all the same.

Not all Germans are good technicians, not all Americans are uneducated, not all Russians drink Vodka.

And even if generalized there are big cultural differences between North, Northeast, South, Deep South, central, Chinese ethnic, etc etc.

Some are more relaxed some are more competitive.

Umm, all the Russians I know drink vodka. I know a lot of them.

[bendejo]

...

The Thai contestant quit in only the 3rd week saying she "felt that the cut-throat and ultra-competitive team dynamics did not suit her style of working, with team members being disrespectful to one another."

...

It was supposed to be fun, or at least that's what she expected. When things got treacherous she decided she'd prefer to be elsewhere. I can relate.

If you've been around the different nationalities of the region, you may have noticed there is a fair amount of snarking, competitiveness, etc between them. There may have been more of this (on/off camera) then she expected, especially if she was the only Thai.

On the other hand I saw a few episodes of a Malaysia version of Apprentice on TV a few years ago (out of boredom and not having a cable TV connection) and it seemed to boil down to 2 personality types: one that was always quick to blame someone in particular if things went wrong, and the other was to just ride on the coat tails of someone else. It got to where all the good ones were voted out, and only the 'not my fault' and freeloaders were left. The producers caused an upset by bringing back someone who was voted off a few weeks before. She was sharp. They gave a special assignment to the loudest-mouthed finger pointer (he was the type if you asked him a question he'd bark his reply) and of course he landed on his face, and of course it was someone else's fault.

Then I came back to Thailand

[katana]

...On the other hand I saw a few episodes of a Malaysia version of Apprentice on TV a few years ago (out of boredom and not having a cable TV connection) and it seemed to boil down to 2 personality types: one that was always quick to blame someone in particular if things went wrong, and the other was to just ride on the coat tails of someone else. It got to where all the good ones were voted out, and only the 'not my fault' and freeloaders were left...

I kind of sympathise with the Thai girl's stance. The US & UK Apprentice episodes I've watched invariably involve the applicants spending about 20% of their time actually doing the task and the other 80% scheming and planning who to put the blame on if they lose the task so they themselves won't be fired.

The 'prize' in the competition is to win the supposed coveted position of working for Lord Sugar or Donald Trump, who come across as hard to please characters with gargantuan egos who would in reality likely be very difficult to work for unless you were perhaps particularly fluent in one of the dialects of Arschlikahn.

She's well out of it IMO.

[Bof]

Well Thais aren't all the same.

Not all Germans are good technicians, not all Americans are uneducated, not all Russians drink Vodka.

And even if generalized there are big cultural differences between North, Northeast, South, Deep South, central, Chinese ethnic, etc etc.

Some are more relaxed some are more competitive.

Great post,

If you just look at your own country and see how much you differ from others who live in it how can you think its not the same for Thais.

My gf is totally different compared to her sisters in how she thinks and acts. Not all Thais are clones from each-other though there is of course a famous example

I think your post's heart is in the correct place, but I don't agree with it.

Most here will be familiar with the Asian proverb "the nail that sticks out gets hammered".

In my experience Thais and Asians are generally much more alike than are non Asians. In fact their emphasis on sameness is at the core of many aspects of their culture.

So, I don't think comparison Thais to Westerners in the way you have is particularly accurate. Of course however there is difference among Thais. Nobody could argue with that.

My argument would be that Thais are fundamentally disadvantaged, not because they lack some mental capacity but rather because at the core of their national psyche are

FACE, Extreme Conflict Avoidance & 'sabaidee/maibenrai' culture.

Those three things form a potent hurdle to them being competitive globally (as individuals).

Rubbish, there is absolutely nothing in common between a regular Thai and a regular Singaporean, no matter what the gender is . Education, language skills, IQ levels , litteracy , maths skills, scientific skills, common sense, respect of the rule of law , are among the "petty" things that sets them apart.

[PaullyW]

Well Thais aren't all the same.

Not all Germans are good technicians, not all Americans are uneducated, not all Russians drink Vodka.

And even if generalized there are big cultural differences between North, Northeast, South, Deep South, central, Chinese ethnic, etc etc.

Some are more relaxed some are more competitive.

Great post,

If you just look at your own country and see how much you differ from others who live in it how can you think its not the same for Thais.

My gf is totally different compared to her sisters in how she thinks and acts. Not all Thais are clones from each-other though there is of course a famous example

I think your post's heart is in the correct place, but I don't agree with it.

Most here will be familiar with the Asian proverb "the nail that sticks out gets hammered".

In my experience Thais and Asians are generally much more alike than are non Asians. In fact their emphasis on sameness is at the core of many aspects of their culture.

So, I don't think comparison Thais to Westerners in the way you have is particularly accurate. Of course however there is difference among Thais. Nobody could argue with that.

My argument would be that Thais are fundamentally disadvantaged, not because they lack some mental capacity but rather because at the core of their national psyche are

FACE, Extreme Conflict Avoidance & 'sabaidee/maibenrai' culture.

Those three things form a potent hurdle to them being competitive globally (as individuals).

Rubbish, there is absolutely nothing in common between a regular Thai and a regular Singaporean, no matter what the gender is . Education, language skills, IQ levels , litteracy , maths skills, scientific skills, common sense, respect of the rule of law , are among the "petty" things that sets them apart.

Think you misunderstood the point.

Point was not to say all Asians are more same. It was to say that Asians among their own - Thais with Thais, Japanese with Japanese, Singaporeans with Singaporeans, etc - are more alike than Americans with Americans, Aussies with Aussies, etc.

I stand by that. Harmony and sameness are much more important in all Asian societies than those traits are in Western nations.

Can you argue that?

[dao16]

Well, not that this is a good thing.....

A friend of mine came to visit recently. We had worked together in another part of Asia where competition is king and one of his first observations here was "Thais just seem so relaxed and don't seem to have the typical stresses about their jobs that we have at home or that people in some other Asian countries have. They go to work or school, do what is asked of them and then leave and don't think about it anymore."

Granted his was just a visitor's view, but he has a point. Most Thais seem to do what is required for that day and then they are out. Somtam lady sells enough somtam to make what she wants that day and no more. Shop closes down if it has enough money for now. Other businesses don't try to cram more clients in; they just take a comfortable amount of clients, and on and on.

Not to say multi-nationals here work that way, but on the ground level, it does seem that people would have trouble when real competition comes to town....if it ever does (I don't really believe most of the ASEAN stuff will really happen....at least not for quite a while).

[Thai at Heart]

Well Thais aren't all the same.

Not all Germans are good technicians, not all Americans are uneducated, not all Russians drink Vodka.

And even if generalized there are big cultural differences between North, Northeast, South, Deep South, central, Chinese ethnic, etc etc.

Some are more relaxed some are more competitive.

Great post,

If you just look at your own country and see how much you differ from others who live in it how can you think its not the same for Thais.

My gf is totally different compared to her sisters in how she thinks and acts. Not all Thais are clones from each-other though there is of course a famous example

I think your post's heart is in the correct place, but I don't agree with it.

Most here will be familiar with the Asian proverb "the nail that sticks out gets hammered".

In my experience Thais and Asians are generally much more alike than are non Asians. In fact their emphasis on sameness is at the core of many aspects of their culture.

So, I don't think comparison Thais to Westerners in the way you have is particularly accurate. Of course however there is difference among Thais. Nobody could argue with that.

My argument would be that Thais are fundamentally disadvantaged, not because they lack some mental capacity but rather because at the core of their national psyche are

FACE, Extreme Conflict Avoidance & 'sabaidee/maibenrai' culture.

Those three things form a potent hurdle to them being competitive globally (as individuals).

Rubbish, there is absolutely nothing in common between a regular Thai and a regular Singaporean, no matter what the gender is . Education, language skills, IQ levels , litteracy , maths skills, scientific skills, common sense, respect of the rule of law , are among the "petty" things that sets them apart.

Think you misunderstood the point.

Point was not to say all Asians are more same. It was to say that Asians among their own - Thais with Thais, Japanese with Japanese, Singaporeans with Singaporeans, etc - are more alike than Americans with Americans, Aussies with Aussies, etc.

I stand by that. Harmony and sameness are much more important in all Asian societies than those traits are in Western nations.

Can you argue that?

I think the idea of harmony in Asian society is a bit of a myth. It has often broken down to yet anarchy also. They might try to obtain harmony, but human nature eventually overcomes.

[FritsSikkink]

If you think 1 candidate reflects an entire country up to you.

What about the candidates for the US or British version are they all that gifted?

[h90]

Well Thais aren't all the same.

Not all Germans are good technicians, not all Americans are uneducated, not all Russians drink Vodka.

And even if generalized there are big cultural differences between North, Northeast, South, Deep South, central, Chinese ethnic, etc etc.

Some are more relaxed some are more competitive.

Umm, all the Russians I know drink vodka. I know a lot of them.

I definitely know 1 Russian who doesn't drink vodka. But I am not sure if there is a second one

[manly100]

she quit because she felt she would get fired. and she would have been fired. but she saved face.

[zeichen]

Perhaps you have heard another proverb "Jane you ignorant sl*t" from SNL.

I think that you are obviously narrow minded but think yourself worldly. I have found in my experience the more people travel and the more that they live in foreign countries they tend to be less open minded. It seems that many use their experiences to re-confirm their pre conceived stereotypes rather than fully witnessing a culture and their people with fresh eyes.

The bottom line is that this is a TV show. You can call it reality all you want but it is a show. If you judge an entire people and their cultural conceptions based on a TV show, there is no help for you and no real reason why intelligent people should continue discussing anything with you.

The other problem with your so called argument, is that you keep changing it. There is nothing that you posted that is remotely provable or even concrete. You have a very limited perspective and are judging things based on that.

As for your comparison that Americans are more like other Americans than they are alike people from other countries. Do you actually believe in anything that you write? I would argue that people from similar backgrounds would be similar but that isn't limited to nationality. For example some redneck from US farm region would have more in common with a farmer from Thailand then he would with a lawyer from California. Also since families are often made up with people from different cultural and economic backgrounds there is no way to say that any two families in any country are more like each other.

Diversity is why life is so great. Yes there are moral more's that people are more likely to apply to given their cultural background, but doesn't mean that they have to and if they do they are less "insert ethnicity here" than others.

Put up or shut up is another proverb. Why don't you go on a Reality TV show and see if you last. Oh wait no one wants to see you for even one minute on a show.

The reason that she gave also might not be the real reason. But I applaud anyone who makes an attempt on a show and has the courage to remain true to their integrity. I don't fault them or their entire culture.

Thais can be very competitive and those in the top of the business ladder are very productive, good at multi tasking and still can be polite and proper. They don't need to live up to a western stereotype of success.

Think about how westerners make a business deal. First they don't show their intent, they fake an intent for something they don't want so that they can use it as a bargaining chip for something that they do want. They use people's weaknesses against them and manipulate situations to overcome a foe. Why is that a business model that should be held in higher regard than what Thais do?

[PoodMaiDai]

A tiny fish from a small pond doesn't like swimming in the ocean with bigger, faster, smarter fish.

[maccaroni man]

East vs West mentality the group vs individual. Asian have been programmed to think as a group hence it is uncomfortable for them to stand alone and claim solitary victory

[PaullyW]

Perhaps you have heard another proverb "Jane you ignorant sl*t" from SNL.

I think that you are obviously narrow minded but think yourself worldly. I have found in my experience the more people travel and the more that they live in foreign countries they tend to be less open minded. It seems that many use their experiences to re-confirm their pre conceived stereotypes rather than fully witnessing a culture and their people with fresh eyes.

The bottom line is that this is a TV show. You can call it reality all you want but it is a show. If you judge an entire people and their cultural conceptions based on a TV show, there is no help for you and no real reason why intelligent people should continue discussing anything with you.

The other problem with your so called argument, is that you keep changing it. There is nothing that you posted that is remotely provable or even concrete. You have a very limited perspective and are judging things based on that.

As for your comparison that Americans are more like other Americans than they are alike people from other countries. Do you actually believe in anything that you write? I would argue that people from similar backgrounds would be similar but that isn't limited to nationality. For example some redneck from US farm region would have more in common with a farmer from Thailand then he would with a lawyer from California. Also since families are often made up with people from different cultural and economic backgrounds there is no way to say that any two families in any country are more like each other.

Diversity is why life is so great. Yes there are moral more's that people are more likely to apply to given their cultural background, but doesn't mean that they have to and if they do they are less "insert ethnicity here" than others.

Put up or shut up is another proverb. Why don't you go on a Reality TV show and see if you last. Oh wait no one wants to see you for even one minute on a show.

The reason that she gave also might not be the real reason. But I applaud anyone who makes an attempt on a show and has the courage to remain true to their integrity. I don't fault them or their entire culture.

Thais can be very competitive and those in the top of the business ladder are very productive, good at multi tasking and still can be polite and proper. They don't need to live up to a western stereotype of success.

Think about how westerners make a business deal. First they don't show their intent, they fake an intent for something they don't want so that they can use it as a bargaining chip for something that they do want. They use people's weaknesses against them and manipulate situations to overcome a foe. Why is that a business model that should be held in higher regard than what Thais do?

You really seem to care about this issue, and that's great! I like passion.

You said many things in there, and it's too early for me to answer everything, but ...

Yes, I do believe what I wrote.

Yes, I do consider myself a member of the international community.

On Thais being more alike and harmony being critically important to many facets of their culture, this is not an argument that I came up with. Please read any number of books on the topic. You can also read about Confucian China which will make the same argument about many of Asia's peoples.

Yes, I agree that travelling can make someone less openminded. I don't really think being continuously and completely openminded is as good a thing as people want to make it out to be. At a certain point, I stand for what I believe. I can still be respectful of other opinions, traditions, (most) actions without agreeing with them. To me, that is the true mark of an international person. Not someone who just bends any which way in the wind and accepts everything just because it's a new experience. In other words, someone who lacks a spine.

I don't have any desire to be on a TV show. I cannot act, and I do not photograph or video well, I'm told. Not sure what this has to do with my posts though.

Of course [some] Thais can be very competitive. By the way, many Westerners can be polite and proper as well.

As for your critique of Western business deal style, I'm not sure I agree with that even as something that is common. But, I think what you are trying to say is that Western style is dishonest and not direct? If that is what you are trying to communicate, I can't agree. Those traits, I might assign generally to Chinese style deal making in particular.

OK -- now, to the topic.

Do you have any opinions on the OP?

The givens are:

Thais typically value very deeply -

1) saving/building FACE,

2) avoiding conflict/preserving harmony over nearly anything else &

3) 'sabidee/maibenrai' attitude toward life which, among other things, tells them that 'things will be OK -- don't worry too much, work too hard, take things too seriously.

Do you disagree with the givens above? If so, please explain.

Now, if you agree with them, do you think they have an impact on Thais trying to navigate a competitive world business culture?

Edited August 6, 2013 by PaullyW

[bonobo]

I recall watching The Amazing Race Asia and on two different seasons they had Thai competitors. One set was a couple of babes (I think they were models or some type of entertainment people) who did not like roughing it and the other was a guy and girl who, I believe, were just friends.

Anyway, the girl of the guy and girl team pretty much quit, but the guy wanted to fight it out and continue. The babes whinged a lot and did not put in any effort and were relieved to be eliminated.

Overall, I thought it was pretty weak of them to come on to a show where they know the circumstances and then either quit or not put in an effort.

The one "babe" who did not do any of the work was Natalie Glebova, the Russian former Miss Universe who was married to Pradorn Srichaphan at the time. The other "babe" was Thai, and she actually gave it a good go.