American spy program uses Thai servers

[mania]

XKeyscore, relationships between NSA and GCHQ, Thai NSC etc etc etc etc are of no relevance to me and place no impositions on my life.

I repeat. what is all the drama about.

Just a guess but maybe not everyone is ok with giving up

freedoms,right,liberties & privacy that others fought for/ died for

to obtain for us.

If you are that is fine I'm sure because, that right of choice was also gained the same way.

Benjamin Franklin at the close of the Constitutional Convention of 1787,

as he left Independence Hall on the final day of deliberation

was asked by a woman

"Well, Doctor, what have we got a Republic or a Monarchy?"

He replied

"A Republic, if you can keep it."

Edited August 4, 2013 by mania

[FDog]

Some may be fine with it now because they think they are doing no wrong so have nothing to hide.

What if those of you have a young son who one day wants to run as President. All the powers that be have to do is find his father's (your) comments on Thaivisa and I'm sure his run for public interest would be in jeopardy.

The powers that be cannot be sure the information gathered is only used for 'good' considering how many have access to it.

So saying you have nothing to hide is just moronic, it isn't you that decides if you have nothing to hide and have done nothing wrong. It is those that wish to use your comments against you or anyone associated with you that decides whether you have done anything wrong.

If you are so open I await your postings of 24/7 video surveillance in your bedroom. Well, no I don't really but you get the drift.

[Credo]

Those 'freedoms' were long ago traded off. We do not live in Ben Franklin's world. Do you think that journalists and hackers can't get the same information?

Some of you seem to think that you are really quite important. You probably aren't worth the trouble and believe it or not, there are some safeguards and how the information can be used.

Your comments on Thaivisa will be available for a long time to a lot of people. Not just the gov't.

[mania]

Your comments on Thaivisa will be available for a long time to a lot of people. Not just the gov't.

That was "our" choice to make

Edited August 4, 2013 by mania

[wealth]

Germany has cancelled an agreement on information-sharing with Britain and the United States, effective immediately. UK & US claims it will have no real impact on intelligence gathering. This claim is a bit odd as it has been previously claimed German data monitoring and sharing was effective.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/03/world/europe/germany-uk-privacy/?hpt=hp_t2

I just contacted Der Spiegel about it. Still, nothing mentioned there. Could be a misinformation until it is confirmed by their sources.

We will know soon.

[wealth]

Germany has cancelled an agreement on information-sharing with Britain and the United States, effective immediately. UK & US claims it will have no real impact on intelligence gathering. This claim is a bit odd as it has been previously claimed German data monitoring and sharing was effective.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/03/world/europe/germany-uk-privacy/?hpt=hp_t2

I just contacted Der Spiegel about it. Still, nothing mentioned there. Could be a misinformation until it is confirmed by their sources.

We will know soon.

This would have been headline all over the world.

CNN is famous to be used as a tool for misinformation. I'll apologize when I'm wrong, but I think we just caught them again ...

so far, not a single German news media reported about this. At least there's nothing to find when I search in German. Der Spiegel is working on it now.

I hope for CNN they are right and not another "Schindler's List" like report.

Edited August 4, 2013 by wealth

[wealth]

misinformation confirmed. This article on CNN has absolute nothing to do with Snowden or a canellation of cooperation by Germany with the US and UK.

The NATO status from August 3, 1959, is still valid.

[wealth]

interesting find ...

It would be logical for NSA to use US embassies abroad as a family of outposts for X-Keyscore harvesting local communications. Embassies have always been used for full-spectrum espionage in all its guises and disguises, military, political, economic, social, so adding cyber was inevitable. The embassies have multiple networks for communications from minimal to highest levels of security. To conduct cyber-espionage would be a seamless extension of existing technology.

Further revelations of Snowden's documents could describe how this is done with personnel, networks and data-server architecture, not only by PRISM and X-Keyscore. Staff of these spy systems may be seen as HUMINT androids safely bunkered for intimately wielding their remote-spying apparatus in concert with remote-commanding officials and killing-machine operators with whom they work to surveil, analyze, target and execute.

LinkedIn and other social media, job recruiters, conference sponsors, have since 9/11 rushed to fill burgeoning "intel analyst" positions, many military and official spy-trained, now seeking greater pay and perks on the cyberespionage market. These "intel analyst" job seekers and holders (happily "endorsing" each other) parade the codenames of espionage tools and programs they have mastered, XKeyscore only one among these compiled by A's quick overnight search of LinkedIn¹:

AGILEVIEW, AGILITY, AIRGAP/COZEN, AIGHANDLER, ANCHORY/MAUI, ARCANAPUP, ARTEMIS, ASSOCIATION, AUTOSOURCE, BEAMER, BELLVIEW, BLACKPEARL, CADENCE/GAMUT, CHALKFUN, CINEPLEX, CLOUD, COASTLINE, COMMONVIEW, CONTRAOCTAVE, CONVERGENCE, COURIERSKILL, CREEK, CREST, CROSSBONES, CPE, CULTWEAVE, CYBERTRANS, DISHFIRE, DOUBLEARROW, DRAGONFLY, Enhanced WEALTHYCLUSTER (EWC), ETHEREAL (maybe opensource network analysis?), FASCIA, FASTSCOPE, FOREMAN, GAMUT/UTT, GISTQUEUE, GJALLER, GLAVE, GLOBALREACH, GOLDMINER, GOLDPOINT, GOSSAMER, GROWLER, HERCULES (CIA terror database) HIGHTIDE/SKYWRITER, HOMEBASE, INFOSHARE, JOLLYROGER, KINGFISH, LIQUIDFIRE, MAINWAY, MARINA, MASTERLINK, MASTERSHAKE, MAUI/ANCHORY, MESSIAH, METTLESOME, NEWHORIZONS, NIGHTSURF, NORMALRUN/CHEWSTICK/FALLENORACLE, NUCLEON, OCTAVE, PATHMASTER/MAILORDER, PINWALE, PANOPTICON, PRESENTER, PROTON, RAVENWING, RENOIR, ROADBED, SCORPIOFORE/CPE, SHARKFINN, SKOPE, SKYWRITER, SNAPE, SPOTBEAM, STINGRAY; SURREY, TAPERLAY, TAROTCARD, TEMPTRESS, TRACFIN, TRAILMAPPER, TREASUREMAP, TRICKLER, TUNINGFORK/SEEKER, TURMOIL, TUSKATTIRE, TWISTEDPATH, UIS/PINWALE, UTT, WEALTHYCLUSTER, WIRESHARK (opensource network analysis?) WITCHHUNT, XKEYSCORE, YELLOWSTONE/SPLITGLASS

http://cryptome.org/2013/08/nsa-x-keyscore-family.htm

http://cryptome.org/2013/08/nsa-x-keyscore-servers.htm

[simple1]

misinformation confirmed. This article on CNN has absolute nothing to do with Snowden or a canellation of cooperation by Germany with the US and UK.

The NATO status from August 3, 1959, is still valid.

Also reported by BBC & a few others. Nothing to do with German NATO status, just not officially sharing data with the US & UK. As quoted from the BBC "Foreign minister Guido Westerwelle said cancellation of the pact -- which dates back to the late 1960s -- "was a necessary and a correct consequence resulting from the latest debates in regards to protect privacy. The move is largely symbolic but reflects the public pressure Germany's leaders have been under following the revelations by Snowden, a former U.S. National Security Agency contractor."

As said their will still be intelligence sharing & the quoted comment confirms the driver is a response to domestic poltical pressure.

[wealth]

misinformation confirmed. This article on CNN has absolute nothing to do with Snowden or a canellation of cooperation by Germany with the US and UK.

The NATO status from August 3, 1959, is still valid.

Also reported by BBC & a few others. Nothing to do with German NATO status, just not officially sharing data with the US & UK. As quoted from the BBC "Foreign minister Guido Westerwelle said cancellation of the pact -- which dates back to the late 1960s -- "was a necessary and a correct consequence resulting from the latest debates in regards to protect privacy. The move is largely symbolic but reflects the public pressure Germany's leaders have been under following the revelations by Snowden, a former U.S. National Security Agency contractor."

As said their will still be intelligence sharing & the quoted comment confirms the driver is a response to domestic poltical pressure.

Yes, but it was/is clearly not understandable for the mass of people, even myself got it wrong first. It was a word game to irritate the mass. I'm not surprised that other MSM followed the same principle.

At least in German Media it was described the way it should have been, with no mistakes or misleading tactics.

Look at the responses on their site and you will clearly see how it was/is understood.

This has nothing to do with journalism.

Edited August 5, 2013 by wealth

[wealth]

here some more revelations and new slides' description

The international version of Prism is called FAIRVIEW

Four new slides detailing the U.S. National Security Agency’s international surveillance operations were aired by a Brazilian television station.

http://www.dailydot.com/news/nsa-fairview-slides-brazil-spying/

[Scott]

This thread is not about Germany, Brazil or any country other than Thailand. Further off-topic posts will be deleted.

[midas]

where is X-Keyscore?

There are about 85 red dots on the site map which claims "approximately 150 sites," with 25 of the dots along the Antarctica coast. A surprise is the dot at Moscow.

http://cryptome.org/2013/08/nsa-x-keyscore-servers.htm

Edited August 5, 2013 by midas

[slipperylobster]

what you are referrring to is some international think tank working on some agreements to govern the use of the internet

Yes I am. There are no international agreements acknowledged by all countries. Sure, each nation has their own spiffy laws, but the internet is a global media. What a satellite/undersea cable picks up and transmits from a server in one country, to that of another, is fair game.

[Publicus]

There is a lot of interesting detail in that Xkeyscore Powerpoint, and that's from five years ago (2008).

"Show me all VPN start-ups in Country X, and give me the data so I can decrypt and discover the users"

"Sometimes a delicate balance of mission and research" (no mention of privacy of course)

With over 4 million people in the U.S. with top-secret security clearance, 500,000 of whom are private contractors, many of whom have been vetted by private contractors, you can bet there will be a lot more leaks and mis-use of intelligence gathering apparatus, in the future unless an example is made of Mr. Snowden, i.e. terminating his life.

Sorry, are you saying that Snowden didn't do the private citizens being spied on - like yourself - a favour? The misuse of intelligence gathering apparatus is spying on everyone - with no individual court orders ... everyoe is a suspect, and this is just fine with you, is it? The government and the security agencies are the criminals here, not the guy who tells everyone that this vile program is being conducted by an obviously paranoid govt.

XKeyscore is a legal foreign intelligence gathering program and operation.

XKeyscore is a legal global program of foreign intelligence gathering that cannot be used in the United States.

XKeyscore is not applicable in the United States.

I see a lot of hysteria going on both in the United States and globally, to include too many US expats.

[BlackJack]

what you are referrring to is some international think tank working on some agreements to govern the use of the internet

Yes I am. There are no international agreements acknowledged by all countries. Sure, each nation has their own spiffy laws, but the internet is a global media. What a satellite/undersea cable picks up and transmits from a server in one country, to that of another, is fair game.

No

Google owns the servers in Thailand

it is Googles data and equipment

Satelite time and cables are leased by THailand

Google Microsoft etc are all in on this

information is power and those that have it control

it is not fair game as you say as if my email is addressed to someone and a third party intercepts it then it is illegal

[SinglePot]

The reality is anything you put on the Internet is effectively in the public domain.

Right or wrong? Up to you.

But if we all accepted that and acted accordingly, there would be a lot less wasted effort discussing the entire surveillance issue.

[BlackJack]

The reality is anything you put on the Internet is effectively in the public domain.

Right or wrong? Up to you.

But if we all accepted that and acted accordingly, there would be a lot less wasted effort discussing the entire surveillance issue.

not true - as email is on the internet and is personal

this is not a moral argument

this is about the USA illegally spying and collecting data in Thailand

The USA has Laws covering its citizens and they are in the Constitution - ie you need a warrant to tap someones phone or in this case the internet

Thailand has Laws too and they can be found here http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/117

NOTE: Section 8. Any person who illegally commits any act by electronic means to eavesdrop a third party's computer data in process of being sent in a computer system and not intended for the public interest or general people's use shall be subject to imprisonment for no longer than three years or a fine of not more than sixty thousand baht or both.

ALSO: Remark:- The rationale for the issue of this Act as of today is that a computer system is essential to business operations and the human way of life, as such, if any person commits an act that disables the working of a computer system according to the pre-determined instructions or that causes a working error - a deviation from that required by the pre-determined instructions or that resorts to any means to illegally know of, correct or destroy a third party's data contained in a computer system or that uses a computer system to disseminate false or pornographic computer data, then that act will damage and affect the country's economy, society and security including people's peace and good morals. Therefore, it is deemed appropriate to stipulate measures aimed at preventing and suppressing such acts. Hence the enactment of this Act.

[slipperylobster]

what you are referrring to is some international think tank working on some agreements to govern the use of the internet

Yes I am. There are no international agreements acknowledged by all countries. Sure, each nation has their own spiffy laws, but the internet is a global media. What a satellite/undersea cable picks up and transmits from a server in one country, to that of another, is fair game.

No

Google owns the servers in Thailand

it is Googles data and equipment

Satelite time and cables are leased by THailand

Google Microsoft etc are all in on this

information is power and those that have it control

it is not fair game as you say as if my email is addressed to someone and a third party intercepts it then it is illegal

LOL...and who is going to jail over this??? If any law was broken, and it was an international law, then where will the trial be held...and by what country? Once your email hits the server, its in never never land.....if you check your meta data....you will see it routed through many many servers.....and perhaps a satellite relay not owned by thailand... Welcome to the world of Signals Intelligence. not as clearly defined as you may think and certainly not a secure way to send mail. Try fedex.

[Publicus]

The reality is anything you put on the Internet is effectively in the public domain.

Right or wrong? Up to you.

But if we all accepted that and acted accordingly, there would be a lot less wasted effort discussing the entire surveillance issue.

not true - as email is on the internet and is personal

this is not a moral argument

this is about the USA illegally spying and collecting data in Thailand

The USA has Laws covering its citizens and they are in the Constitution - ie you need a warrant to tap someones phone or in this case the internet

Thailand has Laws too and they can be found here http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/117

NOTE: Section 8. Any person who illegally commits any act by electronic means to eavesdrop a third party's computer data in process of being sent in a computer system and not intended for the public interest or general people's use shall be subject to imprisonment for no longer than three years or a fine of not more than sixty thousand baht or both.

ALSO: Remark:- The rationale for the issue of this Act as of today is that a computer system is essential to business operations and the human way of life, as such, if any person commits an act that disables the working of a computer system according to the pre-determined instructions or that causes a working error - a deviation from that required by the pre-determined instructions or that resorts to any means to illegally know of, correct or destroy a third party's data contained in a computer system or that uses a computer system to disseminate false or pornographic computer data, then that act will damage and affect the country's economy, society and security including people's peace and good morals. Therefore, it is deemed appropriate to stipulate measures aimed at preventing and suppressing such acts. Hence the enactment of this Act.

Do you have or can you reference data regarding violations and enforcement of this Act (that applies in Thailand only)?

Granted, it's difficult data to come by, or to mine from Thai police records or from perhaps the CAT.

Additionally, I'd say it's a difficult law to enforce due to the wide open nature of the internet, or cyber space as we could also call it.

The wild west of the USA had laws too but it still was the wild west.

Do the USA or the UK for instance have any such Quixotic law(s) as Thailand does? I don't know, or if they do, what is the rate of identifying violations and a record of prosecuting violators? Again, if any such real data exist, they would be hard to come by.

How many times also does your computer tell you X number of people are spying on you right now? Sure, it's an advertisement by a for-profit company, but the point is still taken.

My Rapport Trustee security system, recommended to me by my bank in the USA, gives me a weekly report that never fails to leave me in shock over the huge number of blocked attempts to read my keystrokes, to invade my browser, to change my homepage and many more invasions of my computer and its connection to cyber space (as I prefer to call it). Each week the total of all attempts is a four-digit number. Who do I call here in Thailand? The Thai police? CAT? Google?

I might do as well to call Ghostbusters or whatshername from Poltergeist.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Publicus

[slipperylobster]

Bringing it all together...

Suggest this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_Internet_access

the satellite functions as a bridge in space, connecting two communication points on the ground. The term “bent-pipe” is used to describe the shape of the data path between sending and receiving antennas, with the satellite positioned at the point of the bend. Simply put, the satellite’s role in this network arrangement is to relay signals from the end user’s terminal, to the ISP’s gateways, and back again. The satellite receives, amplifies, and redirects signals carried on a specific radio frequency through a signal path called a transponder.

The satellite has its own set of antennas to receive communication signals from Earth and to transmit signals to their target location. These antennas and transponders are part of the satellite’s “payload”, which is designed to receive and transmit signals to and from various places on Earth. What enables this transmission and reception in the payload transponders is a repeater subsystem (RF (radio frequency) equipment) used to change frequencies, filter, separate, amplify and group signals before routing them to their destination address on Earth. The satellite’s high-gain receiving antenna passes the transmitted data to the transponder which filters, translates and amplifies them, then redirects them to the transmitting antenna on-board. The signal is then routed to a specific ground location through a channel known as a carrier. Beside the payload, the other main component of a communications satellite is called the bus, which comprises all equipment required to move the satellite into position, supply power, regulate equipment temperatures, provide health and tracking information, and perform numerous other operational tasks.^[6]

^{......................................................}

^{Lots of opportunities there....lol I am sure Thailand is right on top of it.}

[Scott]

An off-topic post and a reply have been deleted.

[me313]

There is a lot of interesting detail in that Xkeyscore Powerpoint, and that's from five years ago (2008).

"Show me all VPN start-ups in Country X, and give me the data so I can decrypt and discover the users"

"Sometimes a delicate balance of mission and research" (no mention of privacy of course)

With over 4 million people in the U.S. with top-secret security clearance, 500,000 of whom are private contractors, many of whom have been vetted by private contractors, you can bet there will be a lot more leaks and mis-use of intelligence gathering apparatus, in the future unless an example is made of Mr. Snowden, i.e. terminating his life.

I had top-secret clearance in America, there are many different levels. Some take just signing a piece of paper and making a promise and others require interviews of family and persons of contact back to high school. Being a subcontractor, Snowden's level would have required nothing more plan a signing a promise and electronic criminal background check.

------------------

Not necessarily true.

First of all their is a classification that allows access to SECRET material ONLY and a different classification that allows access to TOP SECRET material.

They have different levels of verification required and background checks.

On top of that there is another check required for those who have SI access ,,,, SI standing for Special Intelligence.

Snowdon would probably be have been at least a SI SECRET level clearance .... and that would have definitely required a background check at the very least.

I've had both a Secret and a Top Secret clearance at times .... depending on my job.

And those were both as a civilian contractor working for the U.S. government.

Just because you may only sign a form , please don't believe they don't do at least a records check and a background investigation if they think it required.

It's just that civilian contractors and military are cleared through different agencies.

I never needed an SI clearance, because I was never involved in that business.

Also, though I don't know the details, I know that the NSA and the CIA do their own separate clearances in addition to the normal military or contractor clearances.

So Snowdon, as a NSA contractor was definitely subject to some other clearance checks, or he wouldn't have been in that job.

Booz Allen probably was agent handling that matter (for which they had to pay the government if there was a background check required.}

This process you describe for obtaining clearance for Top Secret activities in the NSA is more demanding than going through the credit check and information clearance necessary to rent an apartment or buy a mortgage in the US.....

Edited August 7, 2013 by Scott
Quote fixed

[SinglePot]

Has anybody in Thailand changed their Internet behaviour since Snowden and this XKeyscore thing were thrust upon us?

Come to that, has anybody changed their Internet behaviour in the US..................................?

Apart from increasing their social media posting I mean.

[BlackJack]

Bringing it all together...

Suggest this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_Internet_access

the satellite functions as a bridge in space, connecting two communication points on the ground. The term “bent-pipe” is used to describe the shape of the data path between sending and receiving antennas, with the satellite positioned at the point of the bend. Simply put, the satellite’s role in this network arrangement is to relay signals from the end user’s terminal, to the ISP’s gateways, and back again. The satellite receives, amplifies, and redirects signals carried on a specific radio frequency through a signal path called a transponder.

The satellite has its own set of antennas to receive communication signals from Earth and to transmit signals to their target location. These antennas and transponders are part of the satellite’s “payload”, which is designed to receive and transmit signals to and from various places on Earth. What enables this transmission and reception in the payload transponders is a repeater subsystem (RF (radio frequency) equipment) used to change frequencies, filter, separate, amplify and group signals before routing them to their destination address on Earth. The satellite’s high-gain receiving antenna passes the transmitted data to the transponder which filters, translates and amplifies them, then redirects them to the transmitting antenna on-board. The signal is then routed to a specific ground location through a channel known as a carrier. Beside the payload, the other main component of a communications satellite is called the bus, which comprises all equipment required to move the satellite into position, supply power, regulate equipment temperatures, provide health and tracking information, and perform numerous other operational tasks.^[6]

^{......................................................}

^{Lots of opportunities there....lol I am sure Thailand is right on top of it.}

[BlackJack]

Bringing it all together...

Suggest this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_Internet_access

the satellite functions as a bridge in space, connecting two communication points on the ground. The term “bent-pipe” is used to describe the shape of the data path between sending and receiving antennas, with the satellite positioned at the point of the bend. Simply put, the satellite’s role in this network arrangement is to relay signals from the end user’s terminal, to the ISP’s gateways, and back again. The satellite receives, amplifies, and redirects signals carried on a specific radio frequency through a signal path called a transponder.

The satellite has its own set of antennas to receive communication signals from Earth and to transmit signals to their target location. These antennas and transponders are part of the satellite’s “payload”, which is designed to receive and transmit signals to and from various places on Earth. What enables this transmission and reception in the payload transponders is a repeater subsystem (RF (radio frequency) equipment) used to change frequencies, filter, separate, amplify and group signals before routing them to their destination address on Earth. The satellite’s high-gain receiving antenna passes the transmitted data to the transponder which filters, translates and amplifies them, then redirects them to the transmitting antenna on-board. The signal is then routed to a specific ground location through a channel known as a carrier. Beside the payload, the other main component of a communications satellite is called the bus, which comprises all equipment required to move the satellite into position, supply power, regulate equipment temperatures, provide health and tracking information, and perform numerous other operational tasks.^[6]

^{......................................................}

^{Lots of opportunities there....lol I am sure Thailand is right on top of it.}

hacking is what hackers do - unlawful

collecting data is what the NSA does - lawful

NOT

[A1Str8]

Stop being so mean with the US gov.

All they want is information so they can lay down the basics of democracy.