Your monthly expense for 1 person(yourself) in CM?

[onthedarkside]

Info please. I intend retiring in CM early next year. I don't think budget will be an issue. My income will be 70,000 baht per month with substantial investment in Aussie fund. My concern is health insurance. I'm 64, turn 65 in late October. I've been with BUPA Australia for an eternity. One broker I've contacted intimated about 153,000 baht per year premium for one provider, not BUPA. I'm in top table with my current BUPA plan but don't pay anywhere neat this amount. Is the 153,000 mentioned a realistic amount over there ? I know health insurance is expensive for expats but that sounds super expensive to me. Am thinking of putting a substantial sum in a separate bank account for medicals, maybe 200,000 baht or so, & just forget it until needed. What do some of you guys do for insurance ? Would really appreciate any comments on this. BTW, I'll be in CM for a couple of weeks later this month. I could join a fund prior to my 65 birthday if that would assist my plight.

Thanks to all in anticipation of your informative replies.

Malt.

Recently had a topic on this ---> http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/640460-retired-and-aging-ex-immortal-expat-needs-insurance-advice/

[zeichen]

The funny thing with a monthly budget is that x12 doesn't equal what you actually spend a year. Everything that you buy breaks at some point. visas, paperwork, traveling, holidays, and other special events, medicines, family crisis, accidents all happen. Whatever your monthly budget is on paper times 12 and add 30-40%, that will be more likely what you spend a year.

budgets are a guideline and in most cases people spend what they afford to spend. So people who claim to not be able to live for less than 150k a month is because they have it. If they lost their pension, job etc and only had 20k a month, then they would find a way to make that a comfortable life.

I was making 50kUSD a year. I had a nice place, car and overall a comfortable life. The next year I made 75k. So why didn't I save 25k more because my greed for comfort grew. People live based on their means not needs.

Middle class lifestyle here for a family is 30-50k. upper middle class is 50-100k. If you can count how much money you make, you are not rich so I will leave that out of the assessment.

With 30-50k, you can afford a car, 3-4 bedroom house with small yard 100 talang wah or less, holiday once a year for 3-5 days, eat out occasionally and have the occasional splurge, send kids to a private school.

For 50-100k, all of the above but school could be a low ranked international school or a top EP program from a private school. A maid, 7-10 day holiday to the beaches or a shorter overseas holiday. 2 cars instead of 1. Slightly bigger house with air conditioners in each room, eat out more often, more splurges, designer clothes.

My sister in law was looking for a small piece of land up here in CM. She looked at some pieces near us and our parents place. She decided to buy 200 talang wah for 6 million in an upscale community. She could have spent 2 million just 2 km away in our community. But she couldn't care about saving 4 million baht. My wife and I think that she is crazy but for her it is just a normal expenditure.

People spend what they can afford.

[nivram4491]

i may have missed it, but i won't see anyone listing health insurance in their budgets.

Info please. I intend retiring in CM early next year. I don't think budget will be an issue. My income will be 70,000 baht per month with substantial investment in Aussie fund. My concern is health insurance. I'm 64, turn 65 in late October. I've been with BUPA Australia for an eternity. One broker I've contacted intimated about 153,000 baht per year premium for one provider, not BUPA. I'm in top table with my current BUPA plan but don't pay anywhere neat this amount. Is the 153,000 mentioned a realistic amount over there ? I know health insurance is expensive for expats but that sounds super expensive to me. Am thinking of putting a substantial sum in a separate bank account for medicals, maybe 200,000 baht or so, & just forget it until needed. What do some of you guys do for insurance ? Would really appreciate any comments on this. BTW, I'll be in CM for a couple of weeks later this month. I could join a fund prior to my 65 birthday if that would assist my plight.

Thanks to all in anticipation of your informative replies.

Malt.

Health insurance in Thailand for expats more than 65 years old is not affordable. If you are in good health at 65 there is a fairly high probability that you will not have had a major health problem by the time you reach 70. If you start with an account set aside for health emergencies (200,000 Baht may be on the low side) the important point is to keep adding to the fund every month. You can have a very good life in Chiang Mai for 50,000 Baht per month. The difference in lifestyle between 50,000 per month and 70,000 Baht per month is quite small in my opinion. If you add 20,000 Baht every month to your health fund and manage to stay healthy until you are 70 the initial inadequate amount of 200,000 Baht will have grown to almost 1.5 million Baht without interest. It is probably preferable to keep your personal health fund account in your home country. After you reach 70 you can use the 1.5 million fund for hospital treatment and the monthly 20,000 Baht to pay for personal care if required.

I think this is a much better strategy than buying health insurance which can be increased and cancelled at any time.

Accident insurance is a totally different proposition. It is possible to get good cover at a reasonable price but it requires shopping around.

[malt25]

Thanks guys, very much appreciated. Me thinks me will be setting up a separate account & contributing monthly.

Cheers..... Malt.

[NancyL]

i may have missed it, but i won't see anyone listing health insurance in their budgets.

Info please. I intend retiring in CM early next year. I don't think budget will be an issue. My income will be 70,000 baht per month with substantial investment in Aussie fund. My concern is health insurance. I'm 64, turn 65 in late October. I've been with BUPA Australia for an eternity. One broker I've contacted intimated about 153,000 baht per year premium for one provider, not BUPA. I'm in top table with my current BUPA plan but don't pay anywhere neat this amount. Is the 153,000 mentioned a realistic amount over there ? I know health insurance is expensive for expats but that sounds super expensive to me. Am thinking of putting a substantial sum in a separate bank account for medicals, maybe 200,000 baht or so, & just forget it until needed. What do some of you guys do for insurance ? Would really appreciate any comments on this. BTW, I'll be in CM for a couple of weeks later this month. I could join a fund prior to my 65 birthday if that would assist my plight.

Thanks to all in anticipation of your informative replies.

Malt.

Health insurance in Thailand for expats more than 65 years old is not affordable. If you are in good health at 65 there is a fairly high probability that you will not have had a major health problem by the time you reach 70. If you start with an account set aside for health emergencies (200,000 Baht may be on the low side) the important point is to keep adding to the fund every month. You can have a very good life in Chiang Mai for 50,000 Baht per month. The difference in lifestyle between 50,000 per month and 70,000 Baht per month is quite small in my opinion. If you add 20,000 Baht every month to your health fund and manage to stay healthy until you are 70 the initial inadequate amount of 200,000 Baht will have grown to almost 1.5 million Baht without interest. It is probably preferable to keep your personal health fund account in your home country. After you reach 70 you can use the 1.5 million fund for hospital treatment and the monthly 20,000 Baht to pay for personal care if required.

I think this is a much better strategy than buying health insurance which can be increased and cancelled at any time.

Accident insurance is a totally different proposition. It is possible to get good cover at a reasonable price but it requires shopping around.

This can be a good strategy for someone moving over here after age 60, if they actually have 200,000 baht (or more) for starters and continue to add every month, as suggested. Definitely accident insurance -- I believe earlier in this thread I pointed out that the accident rate here is over 10 times greater than in the west, and that number includes pedestrian accidents, too. Accident insurance is cheap here and you can start coverage even if you're in your 80s and 90s. Be sure to check if the policy will cover older people riding motorcycles, though.

I don't know about the advice of having the funds in your home country, though. Be sure someone here knows how to gain access to the funds if you're in hospital and unable to use the ATM or arrange a transfer. Better yet, for security, split the responsibility for access. For example, a local friend could know where you keep the ATM card and also know the email address of another friend in your home country, who would supply the PIN code in an emergency.

Local banks are willing to permit a third party to obtain funds in an emergency -- they write a check that is payable just to the hospital and have a bank official go to give it to the hospital in person. A little difficult to arrange this with a foreign bank!

Incidentally, this is another good reason for the "home" branch of your bank account to actually be close to your current home. Local bank officials will go to Chiang Mai hospitals, but don't expect a bank official from Pattaya to come here if you opened your Thai bank account in Pattaya. Doesn't matter is it's the same company -- this is a task that home branches often have to do.

Edited August 9, 2013 by NancyL

[Thighlander]

i may have missed it, but i won't see anyone listing health insurance in their budgets.

I listed it; 75 usd per month.

[Thighlander]

i may have missed it, but i won't see anyone listing health insurance in their budgets.

Info please. I intend retiring in CM early next year. I don't think budget will be an issue. My income will be 70,000 baht per month with substantial investment in Aussie fund. My concern is health insurance. I'm 64, turn 65 in late October. I've been with BUPA Australia for an eternity. One broker I've contacted intimated about 153,000 baht per year premium for one provider, not BUPA. I'm in top table with my current BUPA plan but don't pay anywhere neat this amount. Is the 153,000 mentioned a realistic amount over there ? I know health insurance is expensive for expats but that sounds super expensive to me. Am thinking of putting a substantial sum in a separate bank account for medicals, maybe 200,000 baht or so, & just forget it until needed. What do some of you guys do for insurance ? Would really appreciate any comments on this. BTW, I'll be in CM for a couple of weeks later this month. I could join a fund prior to my 65 birthday if that would assist my plight.

Thanks to all in anticipation of your informative replies.

Malt.

I just ran a quote for a 64 yo male, citizen of Australia, 1000 USD deductible, and 100,000 USD max from September 1 to December 31. 556.80 USD total, or 129 per month.

[malt25]

i may have missed it, but i won't see anyone listing health insurance in their budgets.

I listed it; 75 usd per month.

Hi again.

care to PM me with who is provider for 75 US per month ? I'd be very interested.

Thanks..... Malt.

[CMSteve]

Pretty sure he's talking about travel insurance. If you are planning to live out here full time, you may have to look elsewhere for insurance.

i may have missed it, but i won't see anyone listing health insurance in their budgets.

I listed it; 75 usd per month.

Hi again.

care to PM me with who is provider for 75 US per month ? I'd be very interested.

Thanks..... Malt.

[Thighlander]

ooops, I meant 139 pm. I'm 49 yo American. I get 500K usd with 100 deductible for 75 per month. They do direct billing with Bumrungrad. I usually stay four four months. They do have long term options. www.imglobal.com. The Cigna offerings seem to have improved. www.cignaglobal.com.

[Lizard2010]

ooops, I meant 139 pm. I'm 49 yo American. I get 500K usd with 100 deductible for 75 per month. They do direct billing with Bumrungrad. I usually stay four four months. They do have long term options. www.imglobal.com. The Cigna offerings seem to have improved. www.cignaglobal.com.

After looking at www.imglobal.com.

This is for Travel Insurance.

NOT Medical Insurance.

Edit

Found this

• Coverage for individuals or families living or working abroad
• Contract employees living and working abroad
• Seniors with dual residencies six months or longer outside the U.S.

For US Residents

Travel Insurance is only valid for short time Not Yearly.

When living in a permanent place like Chiang Mai.

When claiming they will ask for documentation if travel insurance.

Then you find you are not covered.

With www.cignaglobal.com.they will ask to talk to you.

With most International Medical Insurance costs for a 64 before 65 about A$350+ Per year

As most Medical Insurance Company prefer not to insure after 65

From my research

Edited August 9, 2013 by Lizard2010

[Thighlander]

It's traveller medical insurance, god for up to 24 months. Why split legal hairs? It insures you for accidents and illness. No, it's not an HMO, and since maintenance stuff is quite cheap here...lab/physicals, etc..why differentiate. To the Thais, your a traveller, no matter how long you plan on staying here. IMG has direct billing with five hospitals in Bangkok, one of them being the most reputable in Thailand. They also have a large provider network at Lanna Hospital.

Choose between the Rule of Law in America, and the Rule of Law in Thailand. I know where I would rather be a plaintiff. Hopefully you won't need a bar fundraiser, when you are injured seriously and are solely reliant on socialized "free" healthcare in your home country.

[cmsally]

Just a note about travel insurance bought from your home country.

If you don't have a return ticket a lot of these policies are not valid.

In fact when I last checked it seemed the majority were not valid especially in the older age ranges.

Be careful about that as a friend of mine almost bought a policy that would not have been valid on a one way ticket.

At no time did they tell her about this or ask if she had a return.

[Thighlander]

It's not a requirement at IMG, and as long as you buy one month; you can add on. A lot of people insure themselves for foreign destinations they are driving to. For the first time ever, I would suggest asking a missionary about their coverage. Ever read about a destitute Mormon? Neither have I. A lot of you are good at raising objections;but bad about giving alternatives.

[elektrified]

28 yr old mate just had serious issues with his knee. Unable to work and almost immobile for 3 months. Private hospital cost was about 150k. He had Bupa insurance (the basic 12k p/a one) which covered most of it. Without that, and a good GF to give him food, shelter and TLC he would have been buggered.

Info please. I intend retiring in CM early next year. I don't think budget will be an issue. My income will be 70,000 baht per month with substantial investment in Aussie fund. My concern is health insurance. I'm 64, turn 65 in late October. I've been with BUPA Australia for an eternity. One broker I've contacted intimated about 153,000 baht per year premium for one provider, not BUPA. I'm in top table with my current BUPA plan but don't pay anywhere neat this amount. Is the 153,000 mentioned a realistic amount over there ? I know health insurance is expensive for expats but that sounds super expensive to me. Am thinking of putting a substantial sum in a separate bank account for medicals, maybe 200,000 baht or so, & just forget it until needed. What do some of you guys do for insurance ? Would really appreciate any comments on this. BTW, I'll be in CM for a couple of weeks later this month. I could join a fund prior to my 65 birthday if that would assist my plight.

Thanks to all in anticipation of your informative replies.

Malt.

Yes by all means get a policy before your 65th birthday. The most expensive plan Thai Health offers at your age is about 60,000 THB per year. I would pass on BUPA. They are way over-priced.

[elektrified]

i may have missed it, but i won't see anyone listing health insurance in their budgets.

It's pretty shocking isn't it?

Some of these people don't have a clue how much a serious illness could cost them. And I think that a lot of them are young; in their 30's and 40's where they can get coverage for as little as 5-7K THB per year.

[zeichen]

How did this discussion turn into 2 pages about insurance. Perhaps start a thread and preach on...

[eden8]

How did this discussion turn into 2 pages about insurance. Perhaps start a thread and preach on...

yea..where are the admin & mod??

[NancyL]

Perhaps we're all getting tired of the threads every month about "how cheap can you live", often posted by people thinking about living here long-term. Then we get into a discussion of how some people live on 10,000 baht/month and others aren't comfortable on less than 100,000. Then the thread moves into people bragging about how cheaply they live, with (rather boring) details about when they get the cheapest noodles, etc.

I think it's valid to snap people back to the reality of the biggest unplanned expense a long-term expat resident is likely to encounter. It seems some people give more thought to the cheapest place to buy coffee than they do what will happen if they have a major medical expense.

If we started a thread on medical and insurance costs than those considering living here, or those living over here on the cheap, would simply ignore the thread.

[onthedarkside]

Insurance costs are our biggest monthly cost so discussion of insurance seems very valid to this mod. Health insurance the biggie and car insurance next (2 cars, mine and wife). Accounts for almost 13,000 baht/month. A big chunk of our monthly budget. Note we own our home so no rent cost.

[Thighlander]

71 yo us male staying in Thailand for four months, 50K usd limit, 250 usd deductible; 170 per month.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I think it's valid to snap people back to the reality of the biggest unplanned expense a long-term expat resident is likely to encounter. It seems some people give more thought to the cheapest place to buy coffee than they do what will happen if they have a major medical expense.

If we started a thread on medical and insurance costs than those considering living here, or those living over here on the cheap, would simply ignore the thread.

Many people go their entire lives without heath insurance or free medical care.

Not everyone is an obese American waiting for their next heart attack.

Most people are healthy their entire lives.

There is a good argument that the chronically ill should be allowed to die.

Medical costs are just not important to most of the world.

I live quite happily with no insurance of any kind.

Edited August 10, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[onthedarkside]

Many people go their entire lives without heath insurance or free medical care.

Not everyone is an obese American waiting for their next heart attack.

Most people are healthy their entire lives.

There is a good argument that the chronically ill should be allowed to die.

Medical costs are just not important to most of the world.

I live quite happily with no insurance of any kind.

I have paid for health insurance for over 20 years, even had private health insurance in my native country with free national health care. I do not care to count up how much I have paid out in all that time. I do know that my one only motor bike accident and minor house accident cost my insurance company less than 10,000 baht. For sure this has hardly been a bargain but that's why it's called insurance. I just hope the day I need catastrophic care, that the insurance company pays out. Have to say that I am not confident they will pay without any quibble.

Over the years I have winged with my wife about premiums paid. She simply says would you rather been in a major accident or had a major illness to get your money back. I immediately shut up and count my blessings .

[zeichen]

I have had insurance from a few jobs that I have had here, but to be honest I have never used them. Often they are hospital restrictive and I end up paying more than if I didn't use the insurance. I have lived here since my late 20's and now that I am pushing 40 I am considering health insurance. However I really haven't spent more than 10k baht on medicines and what not for the last 12 years.

I know a few older guys that have lived and worked here for 30+ years that are on the governmental health scheme even though they are now retired. So it doesn't just apply to Thais like someone posted.

I am glad that there are people like NancyL and Electrified who throw some practicality into the mix. Just to clarify I do think that it is a valid addition to a budget for those that find it necessary.

However I do think AOA is right that it is a personal preference and choice and that many people live their entire lives without using insurance. For some it is a safety blanket that offers them comfort in case something tragic happens. To others it is just an added expense that can cripple one's budget if you never get hurt or sick.

I also don't have life insurance as I would rather invest that money into an IRA and have that money for my family than paying 1k dollars a year for the next 50 years. Obviously if I die next year my family would have more money if I had insurance but if I lived to 100 it wouldn't even earn me 2% interest.

[Thighlander]

I think it's valid to snap people back to the reality of the biggest unplanned expense a long-term expat resident is likely to encounter. It seems some people give more thought to the cheapest place to buy coffee than they do what will happen if they have a major medical expense.

If we started a thread on medical and insurance costs than those considering living here, or those living over here on the cheap, would simply ignore the thread.

Medical costs are just not important to most of the world.

They aren't in the half oh the world that lives on less than 2usd per day...........and they have a relatively short life expectancy to go with it. Health cost are a major concern, in any developed nation. I doubt it is less than 5% of GDP in any of them.

Maybe that Canadian can get a clean IV needle, with the 900 thb the generous TV crowd raised for him at the bar fundraiser last night.

Edited August 10, 2013 by Thighlander

[NancyL]

Of course not everyone is an obese American. In my experience, most of the large medical costs expats run up at the gov't hospital are due to accidents -- no one plans to get hit by a motorcycle driving on the sidewalk, for example. No one plans to be shot in a fairly high-class part of town while out with friends -- and not very late at night.

I agree that some insurance decisions are definitely personal decisions and no one (outside your immediate family maybe) suffers if you don't have life insurance or homeowners/renters insurance. But, if you elect not to have auto insurance or health/accident insurance then you're expecting other people to pick up the costs, aren't you? It ceases to be a personal decision.

Suan Dok hospital is saddled with millions of baht of unpaid medical bills each year from foreigners to make a "personal choice" not to have insurance because they're (fill in the blank) healthy, take care of themselves, have chosen to self-insure (yeah, right, with no money in the bank), can always return to their home country when they get sick, etc. Who do you think picks up that tab? It's the Thai people! If you truly care about not being a burden on Thai society, then you need to plan for this. Even if you don't care about Thai society, think about what will happen in the future if the Thai government decides they've had enough and decides to eliminate long-stay visas.

Edited August 10, 2013 by NancyL

[Thighlander]

Spot on, Nancy. It's simply selfish. Generally, in AMerica, they can't take your house from you for an unpaid medical bill, but they can be the first in line, when you go to sell it, so a lot of it is asset protection. I feel people should wear moto-helmets for the same reason....it's not fair to make others pick up the tab for life support.

Edited August 10, 2013 by Thighlander

[Dante99]

Of course not everyone is an obese American. In my experience, most of the large medical costs expats run up at the gov't hospital are due to accidents -- no one plans to get hit by a motorcycle driving on the sidewalk, for example. No one plans to be shot in a fairly high-class part of town while out with friends -- and not very late at night.

I agree that some insurance decisions are definitely personal decisions and no one (outside your immediate family maybe) suffers if you don't have life insurance or homeowners/renters insurance. But, if you elect not to have auto insurance or health/accident insurance then you're expecting other people to pick up the costs, aren't you? It ceases to be a personal decision.

Suan Dok hospital is saddled with millions of baht of unpaid medical bills each year from foreigners to make a "personal choice" not to have insurance because they're (fill in the blank) healthy, take care of themselves, have chosen to self-insure (yeah, right, with no money in the bank), can always return to their home country when they get sick, etc. Who do you think picks up that tab? It's the Thai people! If you truly care about not being a burden on Thai society, then you need to plan for this. Even if you don't care about Thai society, think about what will happen in the future if the Thai government decides they've had enough and decides to eliminate long-stay visas.

Some people do have funds to pay for their medical care and a few others do not want it.

Suan Dok being saddled with costs is not appropriate. A serious deterrent needs be put in place to reduce the problem and I expect that the Thai government could come up with one without eliminating the golden egg of long stay visas.

[zeichen]

Surprising about Suan Dok since they require payment before any procedures are actually done. I couldn't even get a check up until I paid first.

[scotinsiam]

Thanks guys, very much appreciated. Me thinks me will be setting up a separate account & contributing monthly.

Cheers..... Malt.

You could also consider taking out insurance with a large excess - whatever suits you. Perhaps you may be happy for a minor problem to pay 200K Baht - 300K etc so take that as an excess.

small medical issues that can be dealt with without Hospitals and in many cases with Hospitals are not very expensive