huski Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 please try and vote just once, even though multiple choices may apply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tutsiwarrior Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 huski...you've left out the big one, ie. 'unfit to govern as Thai PM' dr PP...care to comment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tutsiwarrior Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 to clarify the previous posting would a blunt discussion regarding Toxin make thai.visa vulnerable to attack from the applicable govenment agency... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted February 21, 2004 Author Share Posted February 21, 2004 thaivisa.com is hosted in the United States and falls under the U.S. Constitution. Bill of Rights Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tutsiwarrior Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 hosted in the US, but resides in Thailand...wouldn't you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 huski...you've left out the big one, ie. 'unfit to govern as Thai PM'dr PP...care to comment? He is a tosser Tutsi......a first class practitioner of solo sensuality with Miss Palm. As I said elsewhere, he couldn't run a bath. Jeez...how would you like to go on a fishing trip with Fearless Leader and the Most Reverend Brother Purachai ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmnp Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 He seems to be very successfull in moving the government and laws of Thailand to the right, perhaps following the Singapore model in that regard. While he may be considered Toxic to many farang, he is considered a near dictator by many, including Thais. He must be considered a success in that endeavor. Geoge Bush doesn't hold a candle to him when it comes to moving a nation to the right. It remains to be seen if his autocratic approach solves his problems in the South. It further remains to be seen if his latest power grab of appointing village chiefs vs. electing them succeeds. Does anyone know if he is an "announced" pro-democracy advocate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouse Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 I am sorry but I am of the opinion that many of you are a bit hard on the guy. I always said that if a lot of people complain then that means that you are doing something. It is impossible to please everyone. I see him as doing his best, although he may lack political experince and the diplomatic finesse we require of our leaders, he certainly is a leader. He eradicated drugs, he has helped many poor people avoid the Chinese Loan Sharks and he is constantly striving to make Thailand a better place for the little guy. If we were really a thorn in his side he could shut us (the thaivisa.com) down without a problem but I see him as tolerant, wether out of design or forced to be so, by fear of public opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouse Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 to mrmnp It further remains to be seen if his latest power grab of appointing village chiefs vs. electing them succeeds. Does anyone know if he is an "announced" pro-democracy advocate? Seems that has been put on hold due to Thais (non ethical Chinese) having raised their concerns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted February 22, 2004 Author Share Posted February 22, 2004 hosted in the US, but resides in Thailand...wouldn't you agree?the website is in the US, but we view it from Thailand...the beauty of the internet, we can express our opinions. thaksin may own the TV stations here but not thaivisa.com. the only limitations are the rules of thaivisa.com, profanity etc...In Politics, the Web Is a Parallel World With Its Own Rules I am sorry but I am of the opinion that many of you are a bit hard on the guy. lol, mouse I always said that if a lot of people complain then that means that you are doing somethingmouse you are naive, if that is what you have been saying then maybe you should think about things alittle more first.It is impossible to please everyone. I see him as doing his best, although he may lack political experince and the diplomatic finesse we require of our leaders, he certainly is a leader. his title is prime minister, but he is not a "leader". to refuse to investigate and hide to the people of thailand and the world the FACT that the farmers were complaining of thousands of chickens dying back in nov. 2003. his excuse, it is not bird flu & he wanted to protect exporting. to LIE to the representative investigating the matter that came to thailand, and then LIE to his own people that the situation was not a bird virus is embarrasing to call him a leader. his excuse, we didn't want to start a panic so thai people wouldn't eat chicken. He eradicated drugs, he has helped many poor people avoid the Chinese Loan Sharksalthough of course we have no proof of his involvement, it's amazing that thaksin last year said he would eradicate drugs and then suddenly hundreds of suspected drug dealers and their families were gunned down on the street. is thailand "drug free" ? no and never will be.he is constantly striving to make Thailand a better place for the little guy. we won't even get into the thailand elite card, but what he has publically said is, we only want rich farangs to come and visit, spend their money and leave. he also has said, why do we need farangs, thailand is for thais. does that sound like he is looking out for the little guy as thailand suffers depending on tourism every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dove Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 Once. I was in a Thai airways aircarft and the air hostess as instructed had blocked a row to allow the other passengers to alight first ensuring an orderly disembarkation. Then comes a big American lady who started screaming that it was against the law in the US to do something like this as they are treating us like cows. All the air hostess said was"This is Thailand". The american lady just stood there embarrassed and dumb founded. Perhaps we should respect that, we may have our views but we can only be second class citizens, no matter how much wealth no matter what unless we are born here in Thailand. Our children if thery are full blooded citizens may be. Like wise, if the Thais were in any other country they would in the minds of the people of the host country be considered second classs citizens by many no matter how we personnally accept them in our own country by birth. I have not forgotten how my friends wives were talked about in the backs of the discos or restuarants about how they had brought home a Thai or Filipina slut. Racisim is as old as the bible in the story of the tower of Babel. We have a choice, if we don't like it here we can leave but not the Thai people because this is their land. If their believe that their leader is a dictator it is their right to do something about it not us because we are just trying to kick the ass of a lousy manager that we are paying rent through. We cannot as guest impose on them and be dictators to their lives, so much as we believe that Thaksin is a dictator. We can just empathize. Can we be true citizens if we buy our rights to stay here? Can we say that this is our land, are we just tenants or citizens? Yes I dislike Thalsin for the way he has run the goverment, for the grief he has caused in my own personal relationship but in the end it is the choice of the Thai people. Let's respect that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecat Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 We have a choice, if we don't like it here we can leave but not the Thai people because this is their land. If their believe that their leader is a dictator it is their right to do something about it not us because we are just trying to kick the ass of a lousy manager that we are paying rent through.We cannot as guest impose on them and be dictators to their lives, so much as we believe that Thaksin is a dictator. We can just empathize. Can we be true citizens if we buy our rights to stay here? Can we say that this is our land, are we just tenants or citizens? Yes I dislike Thalsin for the way he has run the goverment, for the grief he has caused in my own personal relationship but in the end it is the choice of the Thai people. Let's respect that. I think nobody in this forum doubts the fact that the choice of Thaksin as a prime minister is the choice of the Thai people, like the choice of GW Bush as American president is the choice of the American people, like the.... We all respect that but we all have an opinion about it. Shall we keep our opinion to ourselves or shall we share it with others? I think there is no need to answer this question, Thaivisa forum is doing a great job getting the people to share their views on ANY subject and Thai politics is one of them (like American politics by the way,...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chanchao Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 " Prefers three left turns over one right turn" Funny that one. In Bangkok, three left turns are often FASTER than one right turn! Think about it, traffic-jam wise! Needless to say I didn't vote. He's not doing so bad, in a Berlusconi/GWB kind of way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p1p Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 (edited) ... Edited May 1, 2004 by p1p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidm Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 Thaksin is doing a first rate job. The trouble stems from understanding what that job actually is. His main official title is Prime Minister. Most critics are therefore judging Thaksin by what they feel a prime minister should do and say. They should judge Thaksin by his intentions and performance in relation to his goals. Thaksin is looking out for himself and his family. As noted in the English language press in December 2003, it is suspected by none other than the King of Thailand that Thaksin aspires to become president of the country. I would add: an all-powerful leader answerable to no one and who brooks no criticism. Maybe the man has an inferiority complex because he was born poor and his biggest break in life was marrying the daughter of a very influential police general. Thus far, Thaksin has made impressive progress towards his goal. He's Prime Minister and has enormous power. He has abused that power to promote cronies and relatives to key positions in the state. He has also passed laws and regulations which benefit his business interests. Opponents and critics are being marginalised. It would be rather foolish to discuss the next stage of his programme in public - even if this forum is technically in America. The following quote from a previous post gives an excellent insight of what will soon follow: Driving around Chiang Mai it is worrying to see the huge billboards glorifying Taxin, giving him credit for road building, traffic lights, renewed infrastructure maybe even sun, rain and good crops. The implication of all the signboards is that Taxin is using his own money to pay for everything. Not remotely true, but the uneducated, brainwashed masses believe it. It is particularly disturbing because these Taxin signboards have mostly replaced ones that paid homage to His Majesty the King. Which brings me to the criticism that Thaksin speaks like a fool. Wrong. Most of his remarks are directed at fools. Voters. The average Thai voter is a just-barely-literate, dirt-poor rice farmer. He is speaking in ways they can understand. Even when he is talking in English, it's the constituents who matter. For now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmnp Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 P1p, so right. Anyone pleae correct me but I fail to see how Thaksin can rise from a mere policeman to owning 9 percent of the GDP without doing something crooked by western standards. Perhaps one of our problems is understanding that corruption is a way of life here and Thaksin merely availed himself of the opportunites, as did all the Russian millionares of today when Communisim failed. A daily reader of the Bangkok Post, I failed to see an article that came to my attention in the Nation regarding the vast amount of wealth Thanksin has accumulated. Why didn't the post write on it. 9 % of the GDP!!!! When his wife bought the BKK land, it was by secret bid from the government. What is your definition of secret? While she payed more, about 800 million, than any others when she bought the land from her husbands government with her husbands money, she bought the land at a 1.2 Billion discount from what the government bought ithe land for only two years earlier. Air Asia couldn't fly wihout permits from the government. Owner of 51% of the company, Thaksin Sinawatra through his family. Wonder how many others who applied, didn't get permits to run low cost airlines. Shin sattelite monoply, again the government in action. Is there anyone surprised that their are so few telephone lines available when Thaksin owns AIS, the largest mobile phone operator. It goes on an on. Tit, sure, and it is not my place, as a guest in Thailand, to critisize. But, I do wonder. Unlike Dove, I worry about a nations future, when you have a docile populace and major movement to the right. That is how Sadam, Hitler, et al got their start and look what happened to their countries and the poor people who populated them. Do we have a responsibility to help or do we just let it happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axel Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 mrmnp, I fully agree to what you said. But then, what do the people want? In the eighties I lived for quite some time in Japan. They had a prime minster, Tanaka, who finally was in jail. The people on the street admired him nonetheless. One point, to me it was hilarious, 'he came from small upbringing, was a carpenter, but now he can afford carps in his own pond'. Btw, the cost of one carp was over 5000 $ in US currency. So Toxin improved many points and the stakes are up. The people still admire him. They don't think it was illegally obtaioned, just clever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiangMaiThai Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 I am sorry but I am of the opinion that many of you are a bit hard on the guy. I always said that if a lot of people complain then that means that you are doing something. It is impossible to please everyone. I see him as doing his best, although he may lack political experince and the diplomatic finesse we require of our leaders, he certainly is a leader. He eradicated drugs, he has helped many poor people avoid the Chinese Loan Sharks and he is constantly striving to make Thailand a better place for the little guy. He eraticated drugs? Oh God.... Do you really believe that? There may be a lull in sales and availability, but it will be back. His solution to every problem is to make more laws and throw more money at it. He is a self righteous bastard. He can never do wrong. Thai experts (who have been in their given field for a couple decades) who disagree with Dear Leader are brushed away as if their opinion means nothing. His ego is so big that he had a tantrum when a psychic told him that he may pass away this year. A truly confident and stable man would have simply smiled and left it at that. Instead he insisted that this well known psychic must renounce his job if Dear Leader is alive at the end of the year. Just like a little kid... Dear Leader is obviously an excellent businessman and he should go back to running the empire and leave Thailand alone. Although, it seems that being PM does wonders for one's businesses. AIS has posted a 63% rise in profits. I wonder why... As for Purachai, I once came face to face with him in a market here. He honestly looks like a sad and angry man. I imagine that he was one of those kids in school who got picked last for basketball, who never went out on Friday nights and was and is massively insecure. The moral crusade must give his life a feeling of purpose and importance. Thailand will be far better off when these two idiots are out of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plachon Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Dear Leader is obviously an excellent businessman and he should go back to running the empire and leave Thailand alone. Although, it seems that being PM does wonders for one's businesses. AIS has posted a 63% rise in profits. I wonder why...Thailand will be far better off when these two idiots are out of power. CMT, get real..............you think Tox would be satisfied with just CEOing Shincorp now? His "empire" is Thailand. He bought a country and now it's his to do as he wants with. When you get your head around that concept, then you'll appreciate the current state of play in the country. The only thing that will see him toppled, is the impending crash, which as you'll recall was debated to death about 6 -8 months ago by Mrentoul, Butterfly, myself and a few others. Nothing's changed on that scenario, only the stakes have got a bit higher since the stock market boomed beyond even the most optimisitc predictions - all the further to fall now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 I am sorry but I am of the opinion that many of you are a bit hard on the guy. I always said that if a lot of people complain then that means that you are doing something. It is impossible to please everyone. I see him as doing his best, although he may lack political experince and the diplomatic finesse we require of our leaders, he certainly is a leader. He eradicated drugs, he has helped many poor people avoid the Chinese Loan Sharks and he is constantly striving to make Thailand a better place for the little guy. He eraticated drugs? Oh God.... Do you really believe that? There may be a lull in sales and availability, but it will be back. His solution to every problem is to make more laws and throw more money at it. He is a self righteous bastard. He can never do wrong. Thai experts (who have been in their given field for a couple decades) who disagree with Dear Leader are brushed away as if their opinion means nothing. His ego is so big that he had a tantrum when a psychic told him that he may pass away this year. A truly confident and stable man would have simply smiled and left it at that. Instead he insisted that this well known psychic must renounce his job if Dear Leader is alive at the end of the year. Just like a little kid... Dear Leader is obviously an excellent businessman and he should go back to running the empire and leave Thailand alone. Although, it seems that being PM does wonders for one's businesses. AIS has posted a 63% rise in profits. I wonder why... As for Purachai, I once came face to face with him in a market here. He honestly looks like a sad and angry man. I imagine that he was one of those kids in school who got picked last for basketball, who never went out on Friday nights and was and is massively insecure. The moral crusade must give his life a feeling of purpose and importance. Thailand will be far better off when these two idiots are out of power. HEAR HEAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trangfarang Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Let’s start with the obvious - Khunt Toxin is first and foremost a businessman. That is, he believes in the inevitable truths of competition, free markets and globalization. He believes that abstract measurements such as G.D.P growth and the share market are indicators of progress and prosperity. Someone with such a myopic version of the world is unable to realize that what directly benefits him doesn’t benefit the majority of the Thai people. The welfare of his fellow countrymen, which is incidentally the reason he was elected Prime Minister, is seen as a minor inconvenience. The solution is to mouth populist platitudes to placate the masses so he can get back to the business of making the country over in his own image. To his dismay his methods are often confronted with criticism – this requires more stringent measures such as having people and institutions threatened and silenced. The grand vision for Thailand as expounded by the Thai Fuk Thai party is to be a leader in technology and communications. Remind me again who the largest investor in technology in Thailand is and therefore best poised to reap the greatest benefits of such a grand vision? Toxin’s agenda was borne out clearly in the Amateur hour antics of the recent Bird Flu outbreak. Preservation of the Chicken industry was the highest priority. The fear of losing half a percentage point of G.D.P much greater than the loss of human life. His own words are eloquent proof of his priorities; “bird flu not only poses a grave economic threat, forcing the elimination of millions of chickens, but also poses a serious threat to public health” This is a perfectly rational response from a mind devoid of the normal regulating qualities of common sense, ethics, memory and imagination. Instead of acknowledging responsibility like a mature adult he resorts to blaming everyone but himself. Then by some osmosis transforms himself into a spokesman for promoting better standards of safety and disclosure. But what can you expect of someone who possesses a narrow range of technical skills and the ability of a child in most other areas? Certain farangs look on in disbelief and wonder when Thais will wake up and smell the roses. What they seem to miss is that they come from countries where politicians and leaders have been getting away with similar behaviour for centuries. Given the short attention span given to highly politicized events and the apathetic nature of Thais, it would be a fair bet that the Thai con Thai party will breeze into it’s next term. Although tragic, it will provide some amusing entertainment for those of us watching from the sidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabaijai Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Davidm, your thoughts cut with diamond clarity. The only thing I can add is, we weathered Thanom, Praphat, Kriangsak, Banharn, and Suchinda (I may have left a few out <g>), we'll make it through Thaksin, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidm Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Sabaijai, I wish I could agree with you. Those who have residence or citizenship and want to stay probably can. For the rest of us, I suspect the party is almost over. Still, I've had a good innings, so not too many complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilson steer Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 There were reports in recent months that P.M. Thaksin was interested in buying into Fulham Football Club, then Sunderland F.C. I suggest that this was just a vote-winning idea aimed at Thais who love English football and would consider Thaksin 'a jolly sporting chap' if he bought in. I am cynical, it always makes me laugh when he assures everyone in Thailand, that if he remains in power 'There will be no poor people in Thailand within six years'. Sad really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted February 23, 2004 Author Share Posted February 23, 2004 I suspect the party is almost over. Still, I've had a good innings, so not too many complaintsgood innings? is this in reference to baseball or soi nana?There were reports in recent months that P.M. Thaksin was interested in buying into Fulham Football Club, then Sunderland F.C. fulham was never for sale, thaksin sometimes doesn't understand things. Thaksin, a self-made billionaire who founded a telecommunications empire before entering politics, caused a stir last October when he held talks with Fulham owner Muhammed Al Fayed about buying the London squad. Al Fayed quickly denied the club was for sale. Thai PM eyeing purchase of Liverpool"The press thinks I am interested in Liverpool because I watch their matches," he told reporters. "I will not say whether I will buy (Liverpool) or not," he added. "We may not have to buy, we may cooperate with them by setting up a football academy instead." he doesn't care about liverpool as a real owner would, he just wants to purchase a english league club. his real goal is to get thailand players on a professional team, he doesn't care which one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plachon Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 trangfarang - IO think you've just about hit the nail on the head with Tox's intentions and outlook on life. Don't forget, most Chinese believe that you can take what you acquire in this life on to the next. That's why they burn the piles of paper money and model Merc when they snuff it. So he's got oodles of dosh, land, a few multi-national telecom companies, a country and now he wants to take a premiership club with him. Just hope the fans don't complain too much, when Anfield is lifted aloft to the heavens.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 I am cynical, it always makes me laugh when he assures everyone in Thailand, that if he remains in power 'There will be no poor people in Thailand within six years'. Sad really. And don't forget that Thailand On Verge Of `First World' Status ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabaijai Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Davidm, time will tell. I've lived here 27 years, seen policies and PMs come and go. When Thaksin and his cronies, eg, Purachai, have moved on I'm betting it'll be back to business as usual as far as the status of expats-on-tourist/non-B/non-O visas go. Hey I could be wrong, but that's my take on the medium-term future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiangMaiThai Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Davidm, time will tell. I've lived here 27 years, seen policies and PMs come and go. When Thaksin and his cronies, eg, Purachai, have moved on I'm betting it'll be back to business as usual as far as the status of expats-on-tourist/non-B/non-O visas go. Hey I could be wrong, but that's my take on the medium-term future. Do you think Thailand will eventually have a real night life again too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axel Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Do you think Thailand will eventually have a real night life again too? Perhaps, but by that time I might be so old that I wish to go home by 8:00 pm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts