Russia will enforce anti-gay propaganda law at Sochi Olympics, govt says

[sustento]

Someone asked about the World Cup, back somewhere around page 1 of this thread.

That was me and I was actually asking about the 2022 World Cup in Qatar...

Ah yes, now I specifically recall Qatar being mentioned.

Well, it looks like Christmas came early 'cause FIFA stepped right into the present Olympic Games spat and its possible impact on the future World Cup competition in Russia.

We're talking a lot of money for Russia from the two events.

Putin needs to start listening to some grown ups.

But do you think we ought to boycott the 2022 World Cup in Qatar?

[F430murci]

Publicus:

Vague laws in Russia? Uneven application of the laws in Russia? Who would have thunk it! That's mother Russia. Ask 10 officials and you can get 10 different interpretations with the final deciding vote based on how much money you paid to what official. Putin and Russia don't care and Putin probably enjoys what you view as negative press about issues such as these.

People in Moscow back in July were laughing about Putin's little law to mess with Olympians from the West.

This may be messed up but wow about the struggles in Egypt right now.

Edited August 14, 2013 by F430murci

[Publicus]

The law sucks, but if you are a guest in Russia perhaps prudent to respect their laws even if they suck and you don't agree with them. Not that hard. At least Russians don't throw acid on your arse if they don't agree with you like some cultures.

Spoken like a lawyer.

Been wondering where you went.

Trouble is we don't know the law or how it's being enforced. The law we know no specifics about will impact the entire international community during the Olympic Games.

That the law per se is offensive to so many of us and thus invites comment and being challenged complicates the matter.

It's a bad law period but an even worse one given the timing and the upcoming event. Its spotty enforcement is probably a model case study of how not to enforce a law.

I feel like I need a team of Russian lawyers in order to post reasonably accurately to this thread. So I've been sticking pretty much to posing news pieces and analysis written in the MSM.

Actually, the more I think about the law the more I want to wave a Rainbow flag in Putin's provocative face.

[Publicus]

Someone asked about the World Cup, back somewhere around page 1 of this thread.

That was me and I was actually asking about the 2022 World Cup in Qatar...

Ah yes, now I specifically recall Qatar being mentioned.

Well, it looks like Christmas came early 'cause FIFA stepped right into the present Olympic Games spat and its possible impact on the future World Cup competition in Russia.

We're talking a lot of money for Russia from the two events.

Putin needs to start listening to some grown ups.

But do you think we ought to boycott the 2022 World Cup in Qatar?

Ask me Christmas time 2021.

Or when a thread topic is opened on it.

Cheers.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Publicus

[Jingthing]

American athlete, Nick Symmonds, medal winner, makes a statement of protest in Moscow.

More to come.

Kudos!

American runner Nick Symmonds became the first foreign athlete to criticize Russia's new anti-gay law on Russian soil shortly after winning a silver medal at the World Athletics Championships in Moscow.

"I disagree with their laws and I disagree with their views," he told ABC News.

Symmonds said he would like to wear a rainbow flag pin during competitions to show his support for gay rights in Russia and around the world, but quickly added, "They've made it very clear that will land you in jail."

"I'm trying to tread that fine line of being respectful as a guest in this country and also speaking against some serious injustices that I see," he said. "As adamant as I am about this issue, I don't know what me sitting in jail is good for."

On Tuesday night, Symmonds burst out of the pack after the final turn to snag the silver medal in dramatic fashion in the 800 meters final. Afterward, he dedicated his medal to his gay and lesbian friends.

"I believe that all humans deserve equality as however God made them," he told the Russian sports website R-Sport, according to RIA Novosti.

Symmonds has long been a vocal supporter of gay rights.

"This has been an issue that has been personal for me. From day one I've always spoken out against this one. It's just so ludicrous you would give rights to some people and not to others," he told ABC News.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/american-runner-wins-russia-criticizes-anti-gay-law/story?id=19955724

Edited August 14, 2013 by Jingthing

[F430murci]

The law sucks, but if you are a guest in Russia perhaps prudent to respect their laws even if they suck and you don't agree with them. Not that hard. At least Russians don't throw acid on your arse if they don't agree with you like some cultures.

Spoken like a lawyer.

Been wondering where you went.

Trouble is we don't know the law or how it's being enforced. The law we know no specifics about will impact the entire international community during the Olympic Games.

That the law per se is offensive to so many of us and thus invites comment and being challenged complicates the matter.

It's a bad law period but an even worse one given the timing and the upcoming event. Its spotty enforcement is probably a model case study of how not to enforce a law.

I feel like I need a team of Russian lawyers in order to post reasonably accurately to this thread. So I've been sticking pretty much to posing news pieces and analysis written in the MSM.

Actually, the more I think about the law the more I want to wave a Rainbow flag in Putin's provocative face.

I don't disagree with you, but we are not talking about US or a country based on equitable laws and rights. This is a communist country run by an extremist and hard liner that will throw anyone in jail who disagrees with him, he perceives as a threat or who he dislikes. Nothing fair or just about Russia or Putin and, according to our friends in Moscow, he passed the law specifically to mess with Westerners during the Olympics. Russian lawyers won't help you as they have to follow Putin law not constitutional or any law based on justice.

I am totally cool with you waiving a rainbow flag in his face, just don't do it in person or on Russian soil because it ain't worth it. Won't change anything and we have seen what happens when people protest him whether it is a bunch of harmless girl punk rockers or whether it is high ranking public individuals or Russian lawyers with public backing.

I also get the Olympians wanting to make a statements, but doing so in Russia and only places them in peril, potentially ruins their lives and accomplishes zilch.

[Jingthing]

Russia is not a communist country.

It is, however, run by a dictator.

Dictators often find a benefit in having a scapegoat.

The current flavor in Russia is RAINBOW colored.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Jingthing

[Publicus]

American athlete, Nick Symmonds, medal winner, makes a statement of protest in Moscow.

More to come.

Kudos!

American runner Nick Symmonds became the first foreign athlete to criticize Russia's new anti-gay law on Russian soil shortly after winning a silver medal at the World Athletics Championships in Moscow.

"I disagree with their laws and I disagree with their views," he told ABC News.

Symmonds said he would like to wear a rainbow flag pin during competitions to show his support for gay rights in Russia and around the world, but quickly added, "They've made it very clear that will land you in jail."

"I'm trying to tread that fine line of being respectful as a guest in this country and also speaking against some serious injustices that I see," he said. "As adamant as I am about this issue, I don't know what me sitting in jail is good for."

On Tuesday night, Symmonds burst out of the pack after the final turn to snag the silver medal in dramatic fashion in the 800 meters final. Afterward, he dedicated his medal to his gay and lesbian friends.

"I believe that all humans deserve equality as however God made them," he told the Russian sports website R-Sport, according to RIA Novosti.

Symmonds has long been a vocal supporter of gay rights.

"This has been an issue that has been personal for me. From day one I've always spoken out against this one. It's just so ludicrous you would give rights to some people and not to others," he told ABC News.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/american-runner-wins-russia-criticizes-anti-gay-law/story?id=19955724

The statement above highlighted in red makes it pretty clear to me, thanks.

Symmonds is a Western athlete currently in Russia in a competition who says that wearing the Rainbow Pin gets you thrown in jail.

This statement comes from an athlete who has the goons of the Russian security agencies breathing down his neck.

Symmonds is being treated as a mortal threat rather than a welcome guest being tended to by a warm, pleasant and hospitable host.

The Olympic athletes who will compete in the games in February are guests in name only. They haven't any choice but to go to Russia if they want to compete in the Olympic Games. The IOC chose the venue.

The real issue is what kind of host Putin, Russia and the Russians are and will be.

[Publicus]

The law sucks, but if you are a guest in Russia perhaps prudent to respect their laws even if they suck and you don't agree with them. Not that hard. At least Russians don't throw acid on your arse if they don't agree with you like some cultures.

Spoken like a lawyer.

Been wondering where you went.

Trouble is we don't know the law or how it's being enforced. The law we know no specifics about will impact the entire international community during the Olympic Games.

That the law per se is offensive to so many of us and thus invites comment and being challenged complicates the matter.

It's a bad law period but an even worse one given the timing and the upcoming event. Its spotty enforcement is probably a model case study of how not to enforce a law.

I feel like I need a team of Russian lawyers in order to post reasonably accurately to this thread. So I've been sticking pretty much to posing news pieces and analysis written in the MSM.

Actually, the more I think about the law the more I want to wave a Rainbow flag in Putin's provocative face.

I don't disagree with you, but we are not talking about US or a country based on equitable laws and rights. This is a communist country run by an extremist and hard liner that will throw anyone in jail who disagrees with him, he perceives as a threat or who he dislikes. Nothing fair or just about Russia or Putin and, according to our friends in Moscow, he passed the law specifically to mess with Westerners during the Olympics. Russian lawyers won't help you as they have to follow Putin law not constitutional or any law based on justice.

I am totally cool with you waiving a rainbow flag in his face, just don't do it in person or on Russian soil because it ain't worth it. Won't change anything and we have seen what happens when people protest him whether it is a bunch of harmless girl punk rockers or whether it is high ranking public individuals or Russian lawyers with public backing.

I also get the Olympians wanting to make a statements, but doing so in Russia and only places them in peril, potentially ruins their lives and accomplishes zilch.

Agreed that nothing Olympians may do in Sochi will change the law in Russia, or change Putin or change anything in Russia. Certainly not in the short term (which in reality is a long term).

The question is what kind of host country to the international community does Russia want to be?

Yes, I get you - Putin doesn't care. Putin in fact enjoys seeing the commotion throughout the West and elsewhere that his recent, purpose-specific little law has precipitated. Putin is perverse and we already know this. Putin's gang is perverse, but we already know this too. Having lived four years in the CCP-PRC I have considerable experience with leaders who are politically perverse.

The Boyz in Beijing, Putin's buddies at the UNSC especially, don't care what the world thinks of them either. The result is self-isolation and self-containment. Whether it's the Boyz in Beijing or the Gang in Moscow led by Putin, there is a cumulative effect of being rotten towards neighbors and toward the world in general that costs in the long term.

Yes, Putin suckered the IOC and the FIFA into Russia and now they're both locked in to Russia as a venue. Which is why I'd like to see the IOC relocate the February games to the most recent city to host the winter Olympics, which is Vancouver in 2012. I'd already posted about this so I'll not make redundant arguments about it here.

My point is that Putin and his gang have to see there are consequences to being mean for the sake of being mean, and for being arbitrary, whimsical, capricious. Not to mention perverse towards the IOC and the FIFA and the global athletes and nations they represent, interact with and whose trust they have.

[F430murci]

Russia is not a communist country.

It is, however, run by a dictator.

Dictators often find a benefit in having a scapegoat.

The current flavor in Russia is RAINBOW colored.

Haha, I hear what you are saying and call it what you like . . . The mentality is still communist then with a dictator running. Even though they should be mutually exclusive or diametrically opposed principles, in Russia it just equates to a mess.

[Publicus]

Russia is not a communist country.

It is, however, run by a dictator.

Dictators often find a benefit in having a scapegoat.

The current flavor in Russia is RAINBOW colored.

Haha, I hear what you are saying and call it what you like . . . The mentality is still communist then with a dictator running. Even though they should be mutually exclusive or diametrically opposed principles, in Russia it just equates to a mess.

One thousand years of tsars and tsarism remains deeply ingrained in the culture of the Russian people, and in their psyche.

Seventy-four years of communism under the CCCP further reinforced the totalitarian mentality of the tsar and the tsarism that it replaced.

The Russian people are trapped in their own cultural quagmire of political dictatorship.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies have been deleted. This discussion is about Russia and the upcoming Olympic games. Further baiting of posters into off-topic discussions will earn suspensions.

[geriatrickid]

Whatever, you want to call Russia, doesn't matter to me. However, I do think about the plight of some adolescent struggling with his/her sexual identity and the environment in which that struggle occurs. If anyone has a shred humanity, he/she will understand this issue from a compassionate and caring perspective.

[LeCharivari]

"Don't make a fuss and the people who hate us will let us be." Extraordinary.

Stay at the back of the bus Rosa!

The NAACP's handling of the Montgomery bus issue after the Browder vs Gale ruling is particularly relevant to both Russia's anti-gay propaganda law and any action taken over the Sochi Olympics, and there's a lot we can and should learn from it.

As far as I am aware it is one of the best examples of how activism done in the RIGHT WAY and at the RIGHT TIME can achieve positive results.

1. Nothing was done in haste or to "rush" things counter-productively. The bus boycott was nearly ten years after the first NAACP-sponsored bus segregation case (Irene Morgan vs Commonwealth of Virginia).

2. They picked what particular individual or case to support and who to pass over, regardless of the merits of their particular case or their affiliation with the NAACP (Rosa Parks after and over Claudette Colvin, even though both were actively involved in the NAACP - http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/26/books/26colvin.html?_r=2&hp& )

3. They kept it a human rights/civil liberties issue, separate from party political issues.

4. They pursued legal cases exhaustively and extensively to the highest courts available as well as "direct action".

5. Most importantly, they had very broad based support, not only of their own group ("CP") but of others, and unquestionably represented the people they were campaigning for.

I will NOT enter into any discussion of the "blame game" here as it is not relevant and this post is NOT about that, but evidently activism CAN work and CAN achieve positive results IF it is done in the right way and it can also lead to disasters if it is done in the wrong way. Before anyone makes their mind up about what action should be taken at Sochi (or against the laws, or anywhere else) it could be a good idea to think about what has worked in the past and why.

[Jingthing]

"Don't make a fuss and the people who hate us will let us be." Extraordinary.

Stay at the back of the bus Rosa!

The NAACP's handling of the Montgomery bus issue after the Browder vs Gale ruling is particularly relevant to both Russia's anti-gay propaganda law and any action taken over the Sochi Olympics, and there's a lot we can and should learn from it.

...

More apt to the real spirit of civil disobedience resistance in the story of Rosa Parks, this clip from Harvey Fierstein:

"When evil shows it's face, you have to answer!"

In the VIDEO portion:

http://www.advocate.com/politics/2013/08/15/watch-harvey-fierstein-dan-savage-equate-russia-1933-nazi-germany

Edited August 15, 2013 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

A comedic take on the current Gay Sochi situation:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/428600/august-14-2013/sochi-2014-winter-olympics

[Publicus]

"Don't make a fuss and the people who hate us will let us be." Extraordinary.

Stay at the back of the bus Rosa!

The NAACP's handling of the Montgomery bus issue after the Browder vs Gale ruling is particularly relevant to both Russia's anti-gay propaganda law and any action taken over the Sochi Olympics, and there's a lot we can and should learn from it.

As far as I am aware it is one of the best examples of how activism done in the RIGHT WAY and at the RIGHT TIME can achieve positive results.

1. Nothing was done in haste or to "rush" things counter-productively. The bus boycott was nearly ten years after the first NAACP-sponsored bus segregation case (Irene Morgan vs Commonwealth of Virginia).

2. They picked what particular individual or case to support and who to pass over, regardless of the merits of their particular case or their affiliation with the NAACP (Rosa Parks after and over Claudette Colvin, even though both were actively involved in the NAACP - http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/26/books/26colvin.html?_r=2&hp& )

3. They kept it a human rights/civil liberties issue, separate from party political issues.

4. They pursued legal cases exhaustively and extensively to the highest courts available as well as "direct action".

5. Most importantly, they had very broad based support, not only of their own group ("CP") but of others, and unquestionably represented the people they were campaigning for.

I will NOT enter into any discussion of the "blame game" here as it is not relevant and this post is NOT about that, but evidently activism CAN work and CAN achieve positive results IF it is done in the right way and it can also lead to disasters if it is done in the wrong way. Before anyone makes their mind up about what action should be taken at Sochi (or against the laws, or anywhere else) it could be a good idea to think about what has worked in the past and why.

You describe a highly disciplined, organized and systematic campaign conceived and implemented by a determined people who, because of their color were readily identifiable and who were united and believed their time had come to assert themselves against prejudice, discrimination, hate.

Yes, a highly organized well conceived and implemented campaign can be effective. Of course. But not every time or in every place or in every circumstance. So if you might be suggesting that Russian gays undertake to imitate the U.S. Civil Rights Movement of 60 years ago, you would be both out of place and out of time, at a minimum.

For one thing, Russia doesn't have the Bill of Rights to its Constitution, which of course includes the First Amendment right of freedom of speech and the right to petition the government for redress of grievances, i.e., the right to protest and to demonstrate. The Russian law is an "anti-propaganda" law which would never get past a U.S. District Court Judge but which flourishes in Russia.

If you are suggesting gays globally and in general adopt this approach then you'd be talking about trying to herd cats.

If you might be suggesting gay athletes and their supporters who go to the Sochi Olympics undertake such an effort you'd be out of step, inconsistent to their primary purpose and mission over the past several years - they are Olympians going to an Olympic Games focused on competing and to win medals.

The post is an excellent summary of the principles, methods, techniques of the U.S. Civil Rights Movement of 60 years ago. Beyond that, it exists in a vacuum because you haven't tried to apply it to anything else, anywhere else, in any other time or circumstance. That of course includes the present.

In other words, I don't know to whom you are speaking, why, where, when, or to what purpose. I don't know why I should give any serious consideration to your glittering generality. It just hangs out there.

[Publicus]

The reality is that the Russian people have the view that existed in the West in general until 40 years ago, perhaps until 60 years ago in the instances of certain identifiable cultures.

Russians continue to see homosexuality as a disease, a mental illness, as morally repugnant and as the result of some failure of parents or of the individual.

Russians also see the civilized attitude of the West towards gays as some sort of foreign invasion of their mother Russia. Russians consider they are standing up to the degenerates of the West on this issue.

In short, the Russian government and the mass of its population continue to live in the Dark Ages on this issue.

As people in the West in particular react more strongly to the Russian law, Russians can feel more Russian by standing up to the foreign barbarians. No organized campaign is going to change the thinking of Russians who continue to be locked into the 1000 year old mentality of tsarist Russia.

The best and only thing the West can do its to make itself clear on the issue anytime it can, every time it can and to remain consistent about it. The anti gay law has brought some considerable focus to the issue because it's connected to the Olympic Games and to Russia and to Putin.

Let's make the most of it.

Anti-Gay Olympic Policies Spur a Backlash Among Russian Athletes

http://news.yahoo.com/anti-gay-olympic-policies-spur-backlash-among-russian-221451064.html

The rainbow—the official symbol of LGBT equality everywhere—has been making quite a splash since Russian President Vladimir Putin signed anti-gay propaganda legislation last month criminalizing public expression of "nontraditional" relationships.

On August 15 at a competition in Moscow, Swedish gymnast Emma Green-Tregaro sported rainbow nails while trying for an Olympic-qualifying high jump - her gesture echoed a recent move by activists in her home country, who painted a rainbow crosswalk near the Russian embassy.

From the other side, Russian pole-vaulter Yelena Isinbayeva said at a Luzhniki Stadium championships news conference that she saw Green-Tregaro’s move as disrespectful:. "We consider ourselves like normal, standard people," she said. "We just live boys with women, girls with boys...it comes from the history.”

[Jingthing]

...

In other words, I don't know to whom you are speaking, why, where, when, or to what purpose. I don't know why I should give any serious consideration to your glittering generality. It just hangs out there.

Indeed!

My take on that essay is that if protests against Russian homophobia can't be like that, and they CAN'T, then better to do NOTHING. In summary, an overblown apologia for doing NOTHING.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Jingthing

[Publicus]

...

In other words, I don't know to whom you are speaking, why, where, when, or to what purpose. I don't know why I should give any serious consideration to your glittering generality. It just hangs out there.

Indeed!

My take on that essay is that if protests against Russian homophobia can't be like that, and they CAN'T, then better to do NOTHING. In summary, an overblown apologia for doing NOTHING.

The people who have a hundred qualifiers and who identify a hundred limits and limitations to what one can do are engaged in excess. They have excessive reluctance, excessive hesitation, excessive caution, all of which are self-limiting and are self restricting.

Any plan or program they would present would not be much of a program of action. It would be too self limiting and too self restricting. When one sets small goals and very narrowly defined purposes, one gets even smaller results, if any.

The Civil Rights Movement didn't get overly specific. The Constitution of the U.S. is not overly consumed with massive amounts of particulars or details. The U.S. Gay Rights Movement succeeded with only one encompassing statement, "Someone in your life is gay."

That changed the U.S. overnight.

That's all it took.

One true statement that affected everyone, whether they liked it or not. Most people came to accept and even to like recognizing the fact.

[F430murci]

The reality is that the Russian people have the view that existed in the West in general until 40 years ago, perhaps until 60 years ago in the instances of certain identifiable cultures.

Russians continue to see homosexuality as a disease, a mental illness, as morally repugnant and as the result of some failure of parents or of the individual.

Russians also see the civilized attitude of the West towards gays as some sort of foreign invasion of their mother Russia. Russians consider they are standing up to the degenerates of the West on this issue.

In short, the Russian government and the mass of its population continue to live in the Dark Ages on this issue.

As people in the West in particular react more strongly to the Russian law, Russians can feel more Russian by standing up to the foreign barbarians. No organized campaign is going to change the thinking of Russians who continue to be locked into the 1000 year old mentality of tsarist Russia.

The best and only thing the West can do its to make itself clear on the issue anytime it can, every time it can and to remain consistent about it. The anti gay law has brought some considerable focus to the issue because it's connected to the Olympic Games and to Russia and to Putin.

Let's make the most of it.

Anti-Gay Olympic Policies Spur a Backlash Among Russian Athletes

http://news.yahoo.com/anti-gay-olympic-policies-spur-backlash-among-russian-221451064.html

The rainbowthe official symbol of LGBT equality everywherehas been making quite a splash since Russian President Vladimir Putin signed anti-gay propaganda legislation last month criminalizing public expression of "nontraditional" relationships.

On August 15 at a competition in Moscow, Swedish gymnast Emma Green-Tregaro sported rainbow nails while trying for an Olympic-qualifying high jump - her gesture echoed a recent move by activists in her home country, who painted a rainbow crosswalk near the Russian embassy.

From the other side, Russian pole-vaulter Yelena Isinbayeva said at a Luzhniki Stadium championships news conference that she saw Green-Tregaros move as disrespectful:. "We consider ourselves like normal, standard people," she said. "We just live boys with women, girls with boys...it comes from the history.

Great, so you had to go talk about the pole vaulter in this thread.

[Publicus]

The reality is that the Russian people have the view that existed in the West in general until 40 years ago, perhaps until 60 years ago in the instances of certain identifiable cultures.

Russians continue to see homosexuality as a disease, a mental illness, as morally repugnant and as the result of some failure of parents or of the individual.

Russians also see the civilized attitude of the West towards gays as some sort of foreign invasion of their mother Russia. Russians consider they are standing up to the degenerates of the West on this issue.

In short, the Russian government and the mass of its population continue to live in the Dark Ages on this issue.

As people in the West in particular react more strongly to the Russian law, Russians can feel more Russian by standing up to the foreign barbarians. No organized campaign is going to change the thinking of Russians who continue to be locked into the 1000 year old mentality of tsarist Russia.

The best and only thing the West can do its to make itself clear on the issue anytime it can, every time it can and to remain consistent about it. The anti gay law has brought some considerable focus to the issue because it's connected to the Olympic Games and to Russia and to Putin.

Let's make the most of it.

Anti-Gay Olympic Policies Spur a Backlash Among Russian Athletes

http://news.yahoo.com/anti-gay-olympic-policies-spur-backlash-among-russian-221451064.html

The rainbowthe official symbol of LGBT equality everywherehas been making quite a splash since Russian President Vladimir Putin signed anti-gay propaganda legislation last month criminalizing public expression of "nontraditional" relationships.

On August 15 at a competition in Moscow, Swedish gymnast Emma Green-Tregaro sported rainbow nails while trying for an Olympic-qualifying high jump - her gesture echoed a recent move by activists in her home country, who painted a rainbow crosswalk near the Russian embassy.

From the other side, Russian pole-vaulter Yelena Isinbayeva said at a Luzhniki Stadium championships news conference that she saw Green-Tregaros move as disrespectful:. "We consider ourselves like normal, standard people," she said. "We just live boys with women, girls with boys...it comes from the history.

Great, so you had to go talk about the pole vaulter in this thread.

[Jingthing]

This Op-Ed piece explains well that this all is bigger than Sochi and bigger than only the newer anti-gay propaganda laws in Russia. For example the Pride House was disallowed well before the more recent anti-gay laws. The author makes a passionate case for boycott, which of course is not going to happen, but the content of the arguments sheds more light on why this is such a big deal:

http://www.advocate.com/commentary/2013/08/16/op-ed-why-we-should-ditch-sochi-olympics

The law basically paints LGBT people as sexual predators who are looking to brainwash Russian children into joining their “lifestyle.” Call this law ignorant, misguided, or just a fantastic way to create a fantasy enemy, but it passed without one vote of opposition.

...

Russian officials believe the matter is a domestic issue that is of no concern to foreigners or the IOC. The problem is, by inviting and soliciting the Olympics to be held in Russia, the government embraced each and ever element of the games. By making discrimination lawful, Russia violates its promises to the IOC. Does this mean that the Olympics should change venues or that the Russian Olympic Committee be sanctioned?

Edited August 16, 2013 by Jingthing

[JemJem]

Another huge backward step by Putin.I say Putin rather than the Russians because he sure does not have the interests of the population at heart.

But these laws are VERY POPULAR according to surveys, and the vast majority of Russian people are homophobic. So he is reflecting the public's hatred of gay people which of course continues to prop him up politically. Those are the best kinds of groups to SCAPEGOAT, groups that the public already hates.

Very popular according to surveys, just about says it all! I think most Russian people don't give a dam_n either way as they are just getting on with their lives. The right wing groups will of course do the necessary when called upon to assist in enforcing these archaic laws.

Can you just imagine these thugs attacking the visiting athletes and supporters during the Olympics. Ferking outrageous in my opinion and the games should be relocated.

".... these archaic laws"

They were passed last month and have yet to be implemented - hardly "archaic".

One thing you can rest assured of is that Russia will showcase the games and do everything possible to prevent any "thugs attacking the visiting athletes and supporters during the Olympics". It simply won't happen, and as grounds for relocating the games its baseless.

Maybe they will take steps to ensure nothing discriminatory happens just before and during the Olympics so that they won't lose further face or take criticism BUT what about, for example, after the Olympics ?!

Don't you care about human rights ?! I guess you probably don't because you seem to be a Putin supporter.

Russia under Putin has become a semi-dictatorial state with fascist tendencies. I am sure you have read about the high number of racist attacks that have happened in the last decade or so, by an increasing number of Neo-Nazi and similar thugs in Russia.

[Credo]

Russia may be willing to overlook a few transgressions of the law, but I don't think they are going to tolerate much dissent on the issue of gay rights. There thinking is 50 years behind on the issue and if people look back at that time in their own history, people thought that what they were doing was right. It wasn't, but they thought it was. Even psychiatrists thought gays should be treated for their disease.

I hope that the Olympics helps Russia move through those dark decades a little quicker.

[cdnvic]

Some people are fighting their battles with the report button again. From now on frivolous reports about people you have an obvious beef with will be met with a suspension. Grow up and act like adults.

[Publicus]

Russia is a terrible host country to anything international, global.

Putin suckered in the IOC and the FIFA and then was happy to stick it to 'em.

Can't trust Putin even when he's standing right in front of you smiling and agreeing.

[Jingthing]

Russia is a terrible host country to anything international, global.

Putin suckered in the IOC and the FIFA and then was happy to stick it to 'em.

Can't trust Putin even when he's standing right in front of you smiling and agreeing.

The gay American ANDY COHEN who was slated to be host of the Miss Universe pageant in Moscow is now boycotting the event in reaction to Russia's anti-gay regime. There is a related protest to pressure Donald Trump (who owns the pageant) to move it out of Russia. Considering Trump is not a friend of gay rights, I'd say the pageant will remain in Russia.

[NanLaew]

To be honest, regardless of the Russian legal view or their own personal feelings, I am a bit dismayed that some gay athletes have already stated their intention to 'fly their flag', be it a button or whatever, as a higher priority in Sochi.

I always thought that a true sportsman and athlete, after all that training, the pain, the blood, sweat and tears, was inclined to be an Olympian first, a human being celebrating their sport among their peers at the very highest level of the game.

The opening parades have standard bearers flying the flags of the participating nations. I can't find the gay nation anywhere in my atlas and I was bloody good at Geography in school.

I commend some of the more moderate voices here who have tried to make a reasoned case about these new Russian laws and what they may or may not allow, versus those that simply trot out the western mainstream media's rather glib 'interpretation' of these laws. The interpretation that conveniently fits like a glove on the current frisson in US and Russian relations. The moderates here have made some effort to think for themselves, do some research and to me have clearly stated how, based on the nations own tormented history, the natural progression of gay tolerance in modern Russia was turned on its ear by a few impatient, externally politicized and noisome radicals. From the moderate voices here, I have learned a lot and it is much appreciated. From the more radical who inevitably end up imploring us to 'learn from the past' with repeated references to neo-nazi thugs, Hitler and the Berlin Olympics, I can't help but feel that these repeated allusions to some impending pseudo Holocaust are an insult to most reasonable people's intelligence as well as the Jewish faith.

I honestly can't begin to understand why Stephen Fry, whom I enjoy and admire greatly, chose this latter argument as the linchpin of his recent (first draft?) open letter to David Cameron and the IOC here, now since heavily redacted to remove these offences to sensibilities here.

Someone also mentioned the fact that both the IOC and FIFA have suddenly joined arms and are openly questioning Russia on it's intent vis-à-vis these new anti-gay laws. Anyone that is so naive as to think that these two hugely corrupt money mills are taking up the cudgel on behalf of a Russian 'Rainbow Nation' is seriously disillusioned IMHO. These Russian laws and the western world's overreaction to them is a threat to their expensive retirement plans, nothing more.

Edited August 17, 2013 by NanLaew

[Jingthing]

Who was predicting a holocaust in Berlin 1936? Not many people were there? This is the mistake of the people who don't get the Berlin-Sochi comparison. There are indeed parallels between Hitler's treatment of Jews at that stage and Putin's treatment of gays NOW. It's so easy and convenient to say it could never happen in Russia. It would have also been easy to say the same thing in Germany 1936. The world did NOTHING then and the worse happened. So NOTHING is not a smart choice. Yes being gay and Jewish informs my reaction as well it should. No, it's no coincidence at all that some of strongest international voices of opposition to the scapegoating of gays in Russia are gay Jews such as Harvey Fierstein. Don't forget that Hitler also exterminated gays.

The Jews should be pissed off card about holocaust comparisons is a cheap shot and totally specious. There are protests now happening in Israel against Putin's persecution of gays. Yes, Jews would and should be pissed off if people were saying that there is an equivalency between the persecution of gays in Russia NOW and the actual holocaust. NOBODY is saying that so there is nothing to be pissed off about. Get the distinction? One thing is not another. Before is not after.

To stress again, many people have grossly misinterpreted the Berlin-Sochi link as an assertion that gays in Russia are being massacred NOW. Nope. Read above.

I agree the IOC is caving totally to Putin. So something's got to give. I find it hard to believe Sochi can happen without some very visible protest but I also think it's important that global attention on the persecution of gays in Sochi doesn't begin and end with Sochi because the actual persecution won't. Sochi is only an opportunity to focus attention.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Jingthing