Russia will enforce anti-gay propaganda law at Sochi Olympics, govt says

[Publicus]

With regard to athletes waving rainbow flags or wearing pins etc. It really has nothing to do with the Russian authorities.

It is simply against IOC rules to take part in any demonstration at any Olympic site.

So even if the Russkies did nothing, any athlete that decided to wander in waving a rainbow flag could well be sent home on the next available flight.

Russia is showing it is a terrible host country for the Olympic Games.

There's never been anything like this madness going into an Olympic Games since the Berlin Games of 1936 in Hitler's Nazi Germany.

In fact, contrast the current and ongoing chaos and hostility created by Russia for the February 2014 Games to the 2012 Summer Olympic Games Hosted by London.

The London Olympic Committee created a Rainbow Unity Pin specifically to welcome the openly gay athletes and for anyone to wear. It's was not a crime in London at the London Olympics to wear a Rainbow Unity Pin. It is not a crime in the UK to be gay, among many other Western countries.

Several athletes already said they will wear the official London Olympics Rainbow Unity Pin to the Sochi Olympic Games.

One can view the London 2012 Summer Olympic Games Rainbow Unity Pin at the following link:

London 2012 launches first rainbow Olympic pin

http://gaygamesblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/london-2012-launches-first-rainbow.html

And there's this from the warmly and openly welcoming 2012 London Olympics.

Openly gay athletes still scarce at Olympic Games

LONDON (AP) -- It has been a great games for gay Olympians -- probably.

British equestrian Carl Hester won gold in team dressage in London. Midfielder Megan Rapinoe has scored three goals for the U.S. women's soccer team and several other lesbian players are part of the Dutch field hockey team heading into Friday's final.

But it's likely there have been more triumphs by gay and lesbian competitors that the world doesn't know about.

There are more than 10,000 athletes competing at the London games, but when the gay website OutSports.com set out to count how many were openly gay, it came up with 23.

Read more: http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/world/21008225697422/#ixzz2cGlbvMhX

[NanLaew]

I am neither gay, Jewish or Russian so for some people here, I may not even have a dog in this fight. By the same token, the huge majority of people looking forward to the Olympic spectacle of Sochi, be it as participant or spectator, in the stadium or on satellite, will also be neither gay, Jewish or Russian.

It may not come as a revelation but the gay community is and always will be a minority. It's quite easy to spout statistics of how many totally disinterested young people in the US (or wherever) when asked, have approved of gay rights, gay marriage, etc.. I would wager that there wasn't a note made by the polsters of how many disinterested young people rolled their eyes before saying they approved while thinking, "Didn't I get asked this same question just last week?"

Gay rights have taken a quantum leap in the more liberal and civilized nations in the past 25 years and exponentially so in the past 5 years. The world is a much better place for it too. It is OK, it's an acceptable lifestyle choice that is not at all distasteful or harmful. So why the perpetual need for public validation of this? I am an (unfortunate?) Scotland football supporter but I stopped wearing the bloody scarf everywhere I went a long, long time ago.

It is unfortunate that the one huge nation in question is a relative newcomer to this very small aspect of the new world order. It is more unfortunate that some people lend more import to their significance in the big sphere of things and want or rather expect instant change and constant validation.

It may be a specious assertion to some that I find this arbitrary hijacking of mankind's worst atrocity quite odious. It remains distasteful no matter how many times the word 'nazi' or 'kill' is thrown in this rather circular debate with unnecessary emphasis. It is so discouraging to observe how the Russian gay community has been openly embraced as the new scapegoat of anti-Putin politics.

The so-called Berlin-Sochi relationship should be consigned to snopes where it belongs.

[sustento]

I'd rather come across as a person calling Putin out as a dictator, which he is, than as an APOLOGIST for the man, especially his despicable scapegoating of gays. Politics is part of life, can't be helped. Rational people don't even try. Gay people in Russia are not living in a political vacuum, just as any people living anywhere aren't. Expecting purity of message from human beings without any taint of politics is patently unrealistic.

OK, maybe there IS one country that is an exception to this:

ccl.jpg

I'd rather come across as someone who is honest about gay rights than as someone who is using them to forward their own political agenda .

Gay bashing anywhere is a political agenda. Making a law - any law - is a political process involving politicians. Choosing which laws to make comes from a political agenda.

Opposing one political agenda with a contrasting political agenda is the nature of the beast.

Late in 2012 the U.S. Senate voted 85-13 to allow gays to serve in the military. As there are 100 senators, that's a big majority The point however is that the 100 senators are elected, two from each state, to legislate in Washington DC. The vote was a political vote by politicians who voted on a political agenda item.

Russian homosexuals have been able to serve in the military since 2003:

Before 1993, homosexual acts between consenting males were against the law in Russia,^[48] and homosexuality was considered a mental disorder until adoption of ICD-10 in 1999,^[49] but even after that military medical expertise statute was in force to continue considering homosexuality a mental disorder which was a reason to deny homosexuals to serve in the military. In 2003, a new military medical expertise statute was adopted; it said people “who have problems with their identity and sexual preferences” can only be drafted during war times.^[50] However, this clause contradicted another clause of the same statute which stated that different sexual orientation should not be considered a deviation. This ambiguity was resolved by the Major-General of the Medical Service who clearly stated that new medical statute “does not forbid people of non-standard sexual orientation from serving in the military.”^[51] Thereby, as of July 1, 2003, homosexual people in Russia can serve in the military.

Israeli homosexuals have been able to serve in the military since 1993.

British homosexuals hve been able to serve i the military since 2000

Canadian homosexuals have been able to serve in the military since 1992.

Give us a shout when you've caught up....

[Jingthing]

Gay identity is not a lifestyle. Golfing is a lifestyle.

Gay is not a choice any more than straight is a choice.

Gay people don't want your validation. They want CIVIL RIGHTS and HUMAN RIGHTS.

There are more active Neo-Nazis in the world in Russia than other country, so what would you suggest we call them?

No, they don't only beat up gays, they also beat up all kinds of non-white people, especially on Hitler's birthday.

Russia has gone BACKWARDS on gay civil rights issue. Yes it was already backwards but now it has gone further.

Sorry, it's not going to be so easy to avoid hearing the Berlin-Sochi comparison, again and again. It's not going away. The reason I know this is it was brought up by mainstream right wing leaning late night talk show host JAY LENO speaking to President Obama. So it's sticky. Sorry if this embarrasses supporters of the Russian government. It should. It's their doing.

They ASKED to be on the international stage by going for these big games. If they can't take the heat about their human rights abuses, they shouldn't ever expect these kinds of games in their nation.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Jingthing

[sustento]

Gay identity is not a lifestyle. Golfing is a lifestyle.

Gay is not a choice any more than straight is a choice.

Gay people don't want your validation. They want CIVIL RIGHTS and HUMAN RIGHTS.

There are more active Neo-Nazis in the world in Russia than other country, so what would you suggest we call them?

No, they don't only beat up gays, they also beat up all kinds of non-white people, especially on Hitler's birthday.

Russia has gone BACKWARDS on gay civil rights issue. Yes it was already backwards but now it has gone further.

Sorry, it's not going to be so easy to avoid hearing the Berlin-Sochi comparison, again and again. It's not going away. The reason I know this is it was brought up by mainstream right wing leaning late night talk show host JAY LENO speaking to President Obama.

95% of the world neither know nor care about what Jay Leno nor President Obama think or say about Sochi. Mainstream right wing leaning late night talk shows tend to be confined to the USA.

[Jingthing]

...

It is so discouraging to observe how the Russian gay community has been openly embraced as the new scapegoat of anti-Putin politics.

...

I'd like to focus on that sentence.

It is the gays of Russia being scapegoated by the Russian people and government, which is headed by Putin, generally classed as a dictator by objective observers. Yes, a POPULAR dictator, if that helps his case.

Here goes, you're gonna love it. Your assertion above is as patently ridiculous as in 1936 saying this:

It is so discouraging to observe how the German Jewish community has been openly embraced as the new scapegoat of anti-Hitler politics.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Jingthing

[sustento]

As has been said before Russia is about 50 years behind the west as far as gay rights are concerned. Expecting them to travel thos 50 years in 6 months is futile. Trying to force them to travel those 50 years in 6 months is counterproductive and is likely to hurt gays who live in Russia. It's easy to push for rights when you're 5000 miles away.

[Scott]

Some off-topic posts and replies have been deleted. Please stay on the topic, which is the Olympics in Russia and the law concerning anti-gay propaganda.

[Jingthing]

95% of the world neither know nor care about what Jay Leno nor President Obama think or say about Sochi. Mainstream right wing leaning late night talk shows tend to be confined to the USA.

That's not really the point. It's international now. The Berlin-Sochi link is now a strong meme. You can't wish it away. It's not going away. Depending on what happens at Sochi, it might possibly NEVER go away.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

As has been said before Russia is about 50 years behind the west as far as gay rights are concerned. Expecting them to travel thos 50 years in 6 months is futile. Trying to force them to travel those 50 years in 6 months is counterproductive and is likely to hurt gays who live in Russia. It's easy to push for rights when you're 5000 miles away.

News flash. Many strong gay voices in Russia are saying: we WANT this international attention and pressure now. Do you know better than them what they want?

[Publicus]

With regard to athletes waving rainbow flags or wearing pins etc. It really has nothing to do with the Russian authorities.

It is simply against IOC rules to take part in any demonstration at any Olympic site.

So even if the Russkies did nothing, any athlete that decided to wander in waving a rainbow flag could well be sent home on the next available flight.

If the IOC did not prevent gay athletes from wearing the London 2012 Summer Olympics Rainbow Unity Pin during the Summer Olympics there, then how and why should it prevent athletes from wearing the official Olympic Unity Pin now?

Probably not while competing, but to wear it during the opening and closing ceremonies, in the Olympic Village or out and about the dismal city of Sochi.

The IOC can overrule a National Olympic Committee, as in the instance of the Russian one. The IOC needs some gonads, that's all.

The Russian Olympic Committee is violating the Olympic Charter by sanctioning discrimination and by practicing it.

Russia just has plain turned out to be a terrible host to the Olympic Games, worse than when the USSR existed there. It seems only Putin could make the communists look relatively good.

London 2012 launches first rainbow Olympic pin

http://gaygamesblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/london-2012-launches-first-rainbow.html

London 2012 have become the first Olympics and Paralympics to launch a special pin badge aimed at the gay community.

The first "Pride Pin Badge" was presented to former Welsh rugby star Gareth Thomas, who recently announced that he was gay, at a special ceremony at the London 2012 headquarters in Canary Wharf attended by Stephen Frost, the head of diversity and inclusion for LOCOG.

There are two badges - one for the Olympics and one for the Paralympics - which combines the London 2012 logos with a rainbow flag, which is used to represent gay pride.

Edited August 18, 2013 by Publicus

[Credo]

Russian children are probably really, really attentive and they will all notice those little pins, and so the gov't will have to do something about all the propaganda.

[Jingthing]

Russian children are probably really, really attentive and they will all notice those little pins, and so the gov't will have to do something about all the propaganda.

I hear its the carrots.

[Publicus]

Russia is a terrible host country to anything international, global.

Putin suckered in the IOC and the FIFA and then was happy to stick it to 'em.

Can't trust Putin even when he's standing right in front of you smiling and agreeing.

The gay American ANDY COHEN who was slated to be host of the Miss Universe pageant in Moscow is now boycotting the event in reaction to Russia's anti-gay regime. There is a related protest to pressure Donald Trump (who owns the pageant) to move it out of Russia. Considering Trump is not a friend of gay rights, I'd say the pageant will remain in Russia.

Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin, now there's a pair hanging together.

We'll see what surprises may await us in the Miss Universe pageant in Moscow.

Fallout comes down in a lot of different places.

[NanLaew]

Just a tad off topic, but maybe not.

How did the gay Chinese community fare in the run-up to their rather sterile but pretty impressive Olympiad?

How are they doing now?

No answers claiming this debate is ONLY about the so-called Berlin-Sochi relationship please.

[Credo]

That's an interesting comparison. The Chinese tend to not like activism of any kind. In my experience, gays were treated pretty much like any other group they didn't particularly care about. They tend to leave you alone if you are not real visible and causing concern. The Chinese people aren't particularly tolerant of gays, though.

[Publicus]

I am neither gay, Jewish or Russian so for some people here, I may not even have a dog in this fight. By the same token, the huge majority of people looking forward to the Olympic spectacle of Sochi, be it as participant or spectator, in the stadium or on satellite, will also be neither gay, Jewish or Russian.

It may not come as a revelation but the gay community is and always will be a minority. It's quite easy to spout statistics of how many totally disinterested young people in the US (or wherever) when asked, have approved of gay rights, gay marriage, etc.. I would wager that there wasn't a note made by the polsters of how many disinterested young people rolled their eyes before saying they approved while thinking, "Didn't I get asked this same question just last week?"

Gay rights have taken a quantum leap in the more liberal and civilized nations in the past 25 years and exponentially so in the past 5 years. The world is a much better place for it too. It is OK, it's an acceptable lifestyle choice that is not at all distasteful or harmful. So why the perpetual need for public validation of this? I am an (unfortunate?) Scotland football supporter but I stopped wearing the bloody scarf everywhere I went a long, long time ago.

It is unfortunate that the one huge nation in question is a relative newcomer to this very small aspect of the new world order. It is more unfortunate that some people lend more import to their significance in the big sphere of things and want or rather expect instant change and constant validation.

It may be a specious assertion to some that I find this arbitrary hijacking of mankind's worst atrocity quite odious. It remains distasteful no matter how many times the word 'nazi' or 'kill' is thrown in this rather circular debate with unnecessary emphasis. It is so discouraging to observe how the Russian gay community has been openly embraced as the new scapegoat of anti-Putin politics.

The so-called Berlin-Sochi relationship should be consigned to snopes where it belongs.

How about London-Sochi contrast?

I reiterate, there hasn't been anything like this madness that's currently occurring in Russia over the Olympic Games since 1936.

There were objections to the 2008 Beijing Olympics because of Tibet in particular, but to include Darfur and some other worthy matters, yet there just hasn't been anything like this one, in Russia, ruled by Vladimir Putin.

Not for a very long time.

Since 1936.

[NanLaew]

How about London-Sochi contrast?

I reiterate, there hasn't been anything like this madness that's currently occurring in Russia over the Olympic Games since 1936.

There were objections to the 2008 Beijing Olympics because of Tibet in particular, but to include Darfur and some other worthy matters, yet there just hasn't been anything like this one, in Russia, ruled by Vladimir Putin.

Not for a very long time.

Since 1936.

Now that IS original. I am pretty sure someone is working on copywriting the so-called Berlin-Sochi thingumabob already.

As I see it, the madness is outside Russia at the moment.

Is the end game a homeland for gay people from all over the world?

I thought not. It's just hard to see where to draw the line when you start arbitrarily likening vastly incomparable events in human history just to gain bandwidth.

[Publicus]

That's an interesting comparison. The Chinese tend to not like activism of any kind. In my experience, gays were treated pretty much like any other group they didn't particularly care about. They tend to leave you alone if you are not real visible and causing concern. The Chinese people aren't particularly tolerant of gays, though.

I would generally confirm that, based on my four years there.

As long as gay people in the CCP-PRC stay quiet and out of public view there's no problem.

The CCP-PRC has no laws about being gay. It's not legal, it's not illegal. The law, as the lawyers say, is "silent" on the matter. Gay PRChinese need to return the "favor" by being "silent" too. Traditional Chinese society, culture would not understand or comprehend making gay relations or relationships legal.

However, the topic of gays and the Sochi Olympics is anyway blocked, i.e., censored on the news and internet in the CCP-PRC. Can't be allowing people to get stirred up.

At the same time it is discussed at certain, select internet sites the CCP does not much block or censor, two sites the CCP specifically leaves open in most matters so it can read the actual mood of the People of the People's Republic. The great number of postings to the two sites show the PRChinese gays don't understand what Putin is all about or what he's trying to do or to prove, so they see nothing good in it. The CCP-PRC had its own troubles during the lead up to the 2008 Beijing Summer Games, but nothing about this.

Edited August 18, 2013 by Publicus

[Scott]

A post has been deleted. It is pretty obvious that it's a personal conversation when the core issue of the thread is no longer discussed, but an argument between a couple of posters continue. There is a PM function for your personal communication. The forum rules apply.

Stop the combative argument and stay on the topic of this thread.

Further such posts will be deleted.

[jamhar]

I'm thinking instead of the rainbow,

people that are in favor of gay rights should wear red

like the Swedish high-jumper recently did.

Lets see what Putin does with THAT!

I'd like to see the athletes themselves decide to hold the games elsewhere

and let Russians compete with Russians. And watch all that 50billion in investment go south.

but i'm just daydreaming.

[LeCharivari]

(edited) It's was not a crime in London at the London Olympics to wear a Rainbow Unity Pin. It is not a crime in the UK to be gay, among many other Western countries.

It will NOT be a crime in Sochi to wear a rainbow pin, nor is it a crime in Russia now.

It is NOT a crime in Russia to be gay.

The unspoken implication that because they are not crimes in London that they are in Russia is totally misleading.

Edited August 18, 2013 by LeCharivari

[Publicus]

(edited) It's was not a crime in London at the London Olympics to wear a Rainbow Unity Pin. It is not a crime in the UK to be gay, among many other Western countries.

It will NOT be a crime in Sochi to wear a rainbow pin, nor is it a crime in Russia now.

It is NOT a crime in Russia to be gay.

The unspoken implication that because they are not crimes in London that they are in Russia is totally misleading.

Gay "propaganda."

The law is against "propaganda" and you know that.

One's human rights is another's propaganda.

Russia is a miserable host of the Olympic Games. Just terrible. The IOC couldn't have done worse. And it's exposing serious flaws in the IOC.

[LeCharivari]

(edited) It's was not a crime in London at the London Olympics to wear a Rainbow Unity Pin. It is not a crime in the UK to be gay, among many other Western countries.

It will NOT be a crime in Sochi to wear a rainbow pin, nor is it a crime in Russia now.

It is NOT a crime in Russia to be gay.

The unspoken implication that because they are not crimes in London that they are in Russia is totally misleading.

Gay "propaganda."

The law is against "propaganda" and you know that.

One's human rights is another's propaganda.

Russia is a miserable host of the Olympic Games. Just terrible. The IOC couldn't have done worse. And it's exposing serious flaws in the IOC.

Correct - the law is against "propaganda" and I know that.

What I didn't know was that this included wearing rainbow pins - since this is a very specific item and it is being raised repeatedly and very specifically here and elsewhere could you PLEASE give ANY link showing that their wearing either in Russia generally or at Sochi in particular is a crime, that anyone has ever been arrested or will be arrested for it, or that the IOC have also banned them. Not someone's opinion in the media of what they think MIGHT happen, but ANYTHING factual.

Athletes competing at the IAAF World Championships are competing with rainbow painted fingernails (and apparently wearing rainbow pins, although that is unclear) NOW. They are NOT being arrested or threatened.

Edited August 18, 2013 by LeCharivari

[LeCharivari]

I'm thinking instead of the rainbow,

people that are in favor of gay rights should wear red

like the Swedish high-jumper recently did.

Lets see what Putin does with THAT!

I'd like to see the athletes themselves decide to hold the games elsewhere

and let Russians compete with Russians. And watch all that 50billion in investment go south.

but i'm just daydreaming.

Spectators could, but its unlikely anyone would know what it represented.

Athletes, when competing or representing their country (in the opening ceremony, for example) don't get a choice - they have to wear national "uniform", except for things like shoes, and any added weight like pins, chains, etc.

This entire line of argument is based on the line that rainbow pins and anything with a rainbow are/will be banned. It simply isn't true and there's NOTHING beyond speculation to indicate that it ever will be - athletes are having no problem wearing gay "adornments" (whatever you like to call them) NOW at the World Athletics Championships in Moscow. NOW - FACT, not speculation.

Not detracting from gay athletes (the only athlete I would say is worthy of "hero" status, Lee Pearson, is gay, as are other outstanding athletes) but this is likely to turn out to be a non-issue as far as the majority of athletes are concerned at Sochi; so far, although its early days, only one openly LGBT athlete has qualified for the Winter Olympics and he's as likely to get on the podium as Eddie "the Eagle" Edwards.

Edited August 18, 2013 by LeCharivari

[Publicus]

(edited) It's was not a crime in London at the London Olympics to wear a Rainbow Unity Pin. It is not a crime in the UK to be gay, among many other Western countries.

It will NOT be a crime in Sochi to wear a rainbow pin, nor is it a crime in Russia now.

It is NOT a crime in Russia to be gay.

The unspoken implication that because they are not crimes in London that they are in Russia is totally misleading.

Gay "propaganda."

The law is against "propaganda" and you know that.

One's human rights is another's propaganda.

Russia is a miserable host of the Olympic Games. Just terrible. The IOC couldn't have done worse. And it's exposing serious flaws in the IOC.

Correct - the law is against "propaganda" and I know that.

What I didn't know was that this included wearing rainbow pins - since this is a very specific item and it is being raised repeatedly and very specifically here and elsewhere could you PLEASE give ANY link showing that their wearing either in Russia generally or at Sochi in particular is a crime, that anyone has ever been arrested or will be arrested for it, or that the IOC have also banned them. Not someone's opinion in the media of what they think MIGHT happen, but ANYTHING factual.

Athletes competing at the IAAF World Championships are competing with rainbow painted fingernails (and apparently wearing rainbow pins, although that is unclear) NOW. They are NOT being arrested or threatened.

Yes, you need to know more. Some facts, for instance.

We all need to know more before any of us can make definitive declaratory or summary pronouncements of certainty.

It's still not clear what may or may not happen.

All we know is that the Russian government says repeatedly it will enforce the law against all Olympians, and that the IOC has asked for clarifications of the government's statements, as has FIFA.

The Russian Sports Minister Vitaly Mutko just said yesterday that he’d throw Olympians like U.S. Bronze figure skater Johnny Weir in jail if they dare do anything “gay” in public during the Olympics. A new Russian law bans anything perceived as pro-gay, including speech or articles of clothing. Weir at the Vancouver Olympics wore a black and pink vest jacket with a deep open V front and a high open collar - izzat gay "propaganda?" If you are convinced you can say with certainty, then good for you.

Presently, it sounds like anything that constitutes an open statement of being gay will put you in jail. The "propaganda" law is vague - while it would not get past a U.S. District Court Judge, it however presents no problems of jurisprudence or law enforcement in Russia.

I generally apply the "reasonable person" theory of society. That is, what would a "reasonable person:" do? The real question is what will the wack job Russian authorities do?

The first time a host government has ever threatened to arrest Olympic athletes, in masse if it decides to do so. Russia is the worst host government in the history of the Modern Olympiad. Absolutely horrendous. Abominable.

Worse than Hitler at the 1936 Berlin Olympic Games.

American runner says he's afraid he'll be jailed for speaking out on Russian anti-gay law

• US runner Nick Symmonds fears he will be imprisoned for denouncing Russia's ban on 'gay propaganda'
• He dedicated his silver medal in the 800m in Moscow yesterday to the gay and lesbian community

American runner Nick Symmonds has become the first international athlete to speak out against Russia's ban on 'gay propaganda', but fears he'll 'get put in jail for it'.

'As much as I can speak out about it, I believe that all humans deserve equality however God made them,' Symmonds said after the race at Luzhniki stadium.

Symmonds' comments could contravene the new law which bans statements maintaining the 'equivalence of traditional and non-traditional sexual relations', according to The Guardian.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2394031/Nick-Symmonds-says-hes-afraid-hell-jailed-speaking-Russian-anti-gay-law.html#ixzz2cHptzRfN

As Gay Athletes Prepare To Take A Stand In Sochi, The Question Is How To Do It

http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-gay-sochi-olympics/25077420.html

What will be allowed by the Russian authorities -- and by the International Olympic Committee, itself -- also remains to be seen.

For athletes, as well as coaches, trainers, supporters, and journalists coming to Sochi, the most immediate concern is the law's vagueness as to what constitutes "propaganda" -- and the room left for potentially haphazard application. Technically, millions of minors will be watching the Olympics in person or on television.

Could Skjellerup's [2012 London Olympics Rainbow Unity] pin earn him a fine and time in jail?

Russia may be 1st Olympic host to ever threaten to jail Olympians

http://americablog.com/2013/08/russia-safety-olympic-athletes-sochi-2014-gay.html

When I see people talk about “the spirit of the Olympics,” and how the entire point of the Olympic Games is for enemies to put down their swords for two weeks and join together in sport, I have to chuckle.

Why? Because the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi, Russia may be the first Olympic Games in recent memory – if not all history – where the host country has threatened to arrest the athletes.

Russia’s threat to jail Olympic athletes, visitors and media is unprecedented in the history of the Olympics.

Gay Olympians to fly rainbow flag despite Putin's plan

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/gay-olympians-to-fly-rainbow-flag-despite-putins-plan/story-fnb1brze-1226694491932

New Zealand speed skater Blake Skjellerup says he, too, just wants to be himself in Sochi and he will be wearing a celebratory rainbow pin.

"I don't care if I get in trouble," says Skjellerup, of wearing the pin, which was created by the London 2012 Olympic Games organisers to promote diversity.

U.S. Bronze Olympic Figure Skater Johnny Weir in Vancouver 2010

Edited August 18, 2013 by Publicus

[boomerangutang]

As usually happens, in these scenarios, the Ruskies are drawing more attention to something they want to sweep under the carpet. It's similar to books or movies getting banned. After awhile, many more folks are taking notice - than would do so ordinarily. Dumb move by Russian authorities.

[LeCharivari]

(edited)

Yes, you need to know more. Some facts, for instance.

I think we ALL need to know more, and we would ALL do well to consider the facts, particularly if something we say is factually incorrect.

A few facts, all of which I can verify and some of which I have given links to, and all of which are relevant to the law and the Winter Olympics, are as follows:

No one has ever been charged in Russia just for wearing a rainbow pin 1, or waving a rainbow flag.

No one has ever been charged in Russia just for the clothes they wear, 2 including gays who have attended rallies deliberately wearing wedding dresses to provoke such a reaction.

All male ice dancers, gay or straight, including Russians, wear clothing similar to that ascribed to Johnny Weir. 3 His costumes are completely "normal" by those standards.

The "propaganda" law is considerably less "vague" than a number of laws in the USA involving "moral turpitude" 4 , which even extends to acts done in private which constitute "conduct that is considered contrary to community standards of justice, honesty or good morals."

A number of athletes competing at the IAAF World Championships in Moscow have already competed wearing rainbow nail polish 5 - no action was taken by the Russian authorities, and although the IAAF gave athletes a general warning of the rules they were allowed to compete wearing it.

After winning silver in the 800m at the IAAF World Championships Nick Symmonds did speak out in an uncensored televised interview on RIA Novosti saying: 6 "I believe that all humans deserve equality as however God made them ... Whether you're gay, straight, black, white, we all deserve the same rights." RIA Novosti is the Russian Information Agency, Russia's largest news agency, fully state owned. He was not arrested or jailed.

LGBT rights issues are regularly discussed in the Russian media and on Russian state TV and have been broadcast state wide at prime time 7

No main Russian LGBT groups I am aware of, such as the Russian LGBT Network or the LGBT Human Rights Project/Gayrussia.ru have asked for the games to be boycotted or moved, and many of the most prominent Russian gay activists such as Anton Krasovsky have come out in the strongest terms against a boycott of the Sochi games 8 :

"Russian gay people need international support, but international support is not a boycott of Sochi Olympic games, because Olympic games is an international event. It's not a Russian event, it's not a personal event of Putin, it's an event of millions and millions of people ... 7 million people in Russia are gay. If you want to boycott Olympic games in Russia, you're trying to boycott 7 million gay people in Russia. You want to boycott me."

1 & 2 Sorry, I can't provide links to something that hasn't happened - if it had I think there would be some; some wearing rainbow items have been charged under public order acts for illegal demonstrations, but none for the items worn/carried

3 http://www.cbc.ca/sports-content/figureskating/opinion/2012/12/even-great-skaters-make-puzzling-costume-decisions.html

4 http://www.answers.com/topic/moral-turpitude?cat=biz-fin

5 http://www.thelocal.se/49682/20130816/

6 http://en.rian.ru/sports/20130813/182748399/In-Russia-American-Runner-Dedicates-Silver-Medal-to-Gay-Friends.html

7 http://www.ntv.ru/peredacha/

8 http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/08/15/anton-krasovsky-russian-tv-presenter-sacked-after-coming-out-as-gay-on-air_n_3760386.html

No opinions, no "bashing", just plain old facts

[Credo]

The FACT is that yesterday I was speeding. I didn't get stopped. Does that mean the law doesn't exist?

Because the Russians haven't arrested anybody doesn't mean that they can't or won't.

You mentioned a number of points, but didn't mentioned what happens if you have done a number of them in tandem.

You seem to want us to think that this really isn't happening and that all these people are just making it up. The Russian gov't is really nice and has a good and accepting attitude towards gays?

[Jingthing]

Also keep in mind, Sochi isn't what matters in the long run.

Certainly rainbow pins are only a symbol.

Sochi is a focal point, yes, but the real issue is the way gay people are now being treated in Russia.

As I've already detailed they've basically outlawed gay civil rights organizations with these laws.

Comparing to blacks in the USA, it would be like outlawing the NAACP.

OK, technically it sounds like they can exist, but not actually DO ANYTHING to promote gay civil rights. So they might as well not exist.

Gay youth in Russia are probably feeling the same thing, that their government and countrymen don't even want them to exist.

Saying "Gay is Normal" within view of minors is under this law gay propaganda and a crime.

Saying gay composer Tchaikovsky was an interesting gay man to minors is under this law gay propaganda and a crime.

Recently a famous Russian t.v. personality came out on the air.

He was fired INSTANTLY.
Videos of his work were removed from access.

Now that famous man is wealthy so he will be OK and not starve, but imagine if you were a gay schoolteacher in Russia and someone outs you.

You'd be totally screwed.

Gay Russians are being pushed into a DEEP CLOSET.

Yes, Virginia, they are being scapegoated and persecuted for POLITICAL purposes of the Putin dictatorship.

Yes I have experience of this kind of thing in the USA as the right wing has TRIED to scapegoat American gays for political purposes in a similar way in the past, but happily they never achieved the massive power that Putin has to pull it off at the national level.

Edited August 18, 2013 by Jingthing