House Owners Reporting Non Thai Tennants

[Roger13]

Many countries require Hotel Owners to report

details of Alien Guests to the Authorities.

It has been mentioned in another thread that

in Thailand, Property Owners are required to report

renting their proprty to Non Thais.

And to report each time the Non Thai returns to

the Property after leaving the Kingdom.

Can anybody quote the required Law / Regulation?

Does the one covering Hotels also cover this situation?

If you Rent a property - do you know if Your Property

Owner reports your Presence / Arrival?

If this is indeed a requirement is there any liability on

the part of the Tennant to ensure that the Owner

complies? (I wouldn't have thought so)

One Member reported that his house owner

(His Wife) was fined for not making such a Report.

Roger

[lopburi3]

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the following :

1. Shall not engage in the occupation or temporary or employment unless authorized by the Director General. or competent official deputized by the Director General . If , in any case , there is a law concerning alien employment provided hereafter , the granting of work privileges must comply with the law concerned.

2. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place.

3. Shall notify the police official of the local police station where such alien resides, within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival. In the case of change in residence in which new residence is not located the same area with the former police stations , such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival.

4. If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours from the time of arrival.

5. If the alien stays in the Kingdom longer than ninety days, such alien must notify the competent official at the Immigration Division , in writing , concerning his place of stay , as soon as possible upon expiration of ninety days. The alien is required to do so every ninety days. Where there is an Immigration Office , the alien may notify a competent Immigration Official of that office.

The provision of ( 3 ) and ( 4 ) shall not apply to any cases under Section 34 by any conditions as prescribed by the Director General.

In making notification under this Section , the alien may make notification in person or send a letter of notification to the competent official , in accordance with the regulations prescribed by the Director General .

Source: Laws of Thai Immigration at Division 3 Immigration Police

[Roger13]

Hi Lopburi,

Your post is interesting - never seen that before

AND - I was quite unaware of the Reporting

Requiremnts to Local Police (3 & 4).

What is the exception mentioned in

"The provision of ( 3 ) and ( 4 ) shall not apply

to any cases under Section 34 by any conditions

as prescribed by the Director General."

Can you post Sec 34 please?

BUT - your post makes no reference to this topic

on PROPERTY OWNERS

Roger

[lopburi3]

BUT - your post makes no reference to this topic

on PROPERTY OWNERS

For full section 34 go to the link and read chapter 4 (section 34 is a list of all valid reason to be in Thailand so believe the meaning to be the reporting law (sections 3/4) can be applied or not applied at the discretion of the Director of Immigration.

You may find the property owners information somewhere on the Interior Ministry site but maybe not - I did see it many years ago. But these are laws that are not normally enforced so please don't get anyone too interested in dusting them off.

[parryhandy]

2. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place.

3. Shall notify the police official of the local police station where such alien resides, within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival. In the case of change in residence in which new residence is not located the same area with the former police stations , such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival.

4. If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours from the time of arrival.

well reading these rules there must be millions of tourists a year that stay here illegally.How many tourists report to the local police station on arriving in a resort here ?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

2. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place.

3. Shall notify the police official of the local police station where such alien resides, within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival. In the case of change in residence in which new residence is not located the same area with the former police stations , such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival.

4. If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours from the time of arrival.

well reading these rules there must be millions of tourists a year that stay here illegally.How many tourists report to the local police station on arriving in a resort here ?

The resort will do the reporting, as do hotels etc. That is why you have to hand over the passports on checkin. Nevertheless, the regulations must be much honoured in the breach.

[Thetyim]

Roger, in reply to your question

I have rented properties here for many years and the landlord has never reported it to the police.

I have, so far, had no problems

[astral]

The law is quite clear.

If you are only a tenant then you must report every 90 days. Or on arrival if this is not the address you gave at the airport/border on your TM (Immigration) card. See earlier quote of Section 37 of the Immigration Act.

The other resposibility is for the landlord, who must report your presence within 24 hours of arrival.

Section 38 : The housemaster , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. If there is no Immigration Office located in that area , the local police official for that area must be notified.

In case the house , dwelling place , or hotel where the alien has stayed under provision of Para.1 is located within the Bangkok area , such notification must be reported to the competent official at the Immigration Division.

Making notification , in reference to the Para 1 and 2 of this Section , must comply with regulations prescribed by the Director General.

If he does not do this, then that is his, worry NOT yours.

I published the info for people who live with Thai spouses, or spouse equivalents, who migh fall foul of this little know part of the law.

Note it does apply to hotels, anywhere you stay in Thailand!!

Happy days in Thailand

[george]

http://www.thaivisa.com/515.0.html

[easymoney]

The staight unabridged is that most landlaords never report because of tax issues. The Law requires them too as pointed out in the links suggested. They are right

[mrmnp]

Since we are dealing with a regulation translated from Thai, I assume, this question may be impossible to answer, but why shouldn't we ask difficult questions of our immigration regulation gurus such as george, Dr. pat, estral, et al. to keep them on their toes.

Question: Is the requirement to report to the local police waived once you are reporting regularly every 90 days? Since immigraion officers are policemen, and if you report to a local immigration office, you are, in fact, reporting to a policeman. It would seem to me you would have a very goood defense, if this issue was ever interpreted by the Thai government to be in the conjunctive

Question: Can the Thai owner of the property expect to pay a penalty for late filing of this notice, ie. farang "on board" so to speak (hehe) for two years? Does anyone have any experience in late filing by a Thai owner in Chiang Mai or anywhere?. My failure to report every 90 days was detected by the administrative section of Chiang Mai immigration when I got a residency permit for my drivers license, but they merely said, I didn't know so no penalty. I was blatantly asked for a "tip" by the young out of uniform clerk, so I gave him 100 Baht rather than cause a ripple.

[Dah fahrang]

but what about marriage?

Where the spouse is legally married to the house owner?

Does a wife have to report her husband is living with her every 90 days?

[monty]

Theoretically every owner has to report his alien tennants. If your wife is the owner, she has to report. If your house is registered on a company of which you are the director, you have to report you're living there yourself!

Yes, one can get fined for not reporting tennants, immigration did a raid on budget guesthouses on Soi Buakhao (Pattaya) not so long ago, and non-complying hotels were fined!

Pattaya Mail: Immigration officers raid tourist hotels defying immigration rules

In true Thai style, the fine was only 1000 Baht, so if this will force guesthouse to suddenly take up this load of paperwork is in serious doubt...

[astral]

As far as I can see there is no 90 day rule for house owners.

It is everytime someone arrives to stay a the house.

So if you travel in and out as I do, your wife is supposed to report your

arrival each time.........

The 90 day rule is for farangs who stay a long time.

[dkstoney]

2. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place.

There's your loophole.

[mrmnp]

dkstoney, please explain to what you refer when you imply reporting to a COMPETENT OFFICIAL is enough. Thank you.

george: How about a Headline on the home page entitled "Reporting Requirments" for visitors and long stays?

[astral]

but what about marriage?

Where the spouse is legally married to the house owner?

Does a wife have to report her husband is living with her every 90 days?

Yes your spouse must report each time you arrive in the country.

[mrmnp]

Following the advice of our forum immigration "gurus", I finally got my shy Thai to go to Chiang Mai immigration and report that this farang was staying in his house.

Reporting back after the deed was done, I was told that an immigration official, who hadn't missed his six meals a day in 20 years, advised him that he needed to come back every day to make the report, as long as farang was present in the house.

Speaking as loudly as polite Thai's are allowed, the official was asked why was it necessary as the farang was staying there for the balance of his life, which hopefully would be long after the official retired!

Fortunately, another official overheard the conversation, or maybe he was covertly listening, and over-ruled corpus grande and said here is your receipt for your report and no, you need not come back until farang moves out.

Conclusion: Not enough Thai owners make this report so the official had no experience in the matter or his mind was so dulled by his last repast that he missed the point that it was a residence, not a hotel , involved. No fine for reporting farang two years late was mentioned.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Following the advice of our forum immigration "gurus", I finally got my shy Thai to go to Chiang Mai immigration and report that this farang was staying in his house.

Reporting back after the deed was done, I was told that an immigration official, who hadn't missed his six meals a day in 20 years, advised him that he needed to come back every day to make the report, as long as farang was present in the house.

Speaking as loudly as polite Thai's are allowed, the official was asked why was it necessary as the farang was staying there for the balance of his life, which hopefully would be long after the official retired!

Fortunately, another official overheard the conversation, or maybe he was covertly listening, and over-ruled corpus grande and said here is your receipt for your report and no, you need not come back until farang moves out.

Conclusion: Not enough Thai owners make this report so the official had no experience in the matter or his mind was so dulled by his last repast that he missed the point that it was a residence, not a hotel , involved. No fine for reporting farang two years late was mentioned.

Sanity prevailed...good for you

[et33.com]

confusing...

[dr_Pat_Pong]

confusing...

I thought that it came out well in the end. The first part might have been confusing.

[BillyZ]

Just to add my experience to this:

About 6 months ago, a couple of nice, middle-aged ladies asked us about taxes for the house we rent. (The house is jointly owned by a Chinese and a Thai). We told them we don't own the place, just rent.

A few weeks later, the Chinese owner came over saying that we'd ratted them out on the tax issue, as they'd been saying the house was a primary residence and not a rental. The tax on the fomer is much less than on the latter. We'd never been told anything about the taxes. And it's not for us to worry about, anyway.

Of course, both owners had the gall to ask that we pay for the last year's tax and that they wanted us to pay for the tax from here on out. Once we said that we'd rather move, they backed down.

[mrmnp]

I much prefer "stories" in these pages than "advice" so here is mine:

Not trusting what relatives might do if my Thai died, or ran off, or whatever, I had a lawyer create a thirty year lease, although referred to as a lifetime lease in the documents recorded at the land office when the purchase of my house was completed.

It was about a year later that the "tax man cometh". He first called my Thai to his office and demanded 240,000 Baht in taxes based on the two million baht lifetime lease amount (value of house and land at the time) (ie. mortgage value). My Thai told him no money changed hands in the lease transaction, it was merely created to protect farang from relatives and besides he had no money.

Three months later, tax man showed up unannounced at the door, had advised that he had negotiated with his boss, and if we would agree to pay $300 baht a year for 30 years, payable in a lump sum in the first year, the tax issue would be solved. He even had thirty documents, each dated a further year in the future for thirty years hence.

He also insisted on Chivas Regal as a gift for his services.

No time to argue. In the interim I had learned that the Vat on rental proceeds is payable whether the rent is payed or not, assumeing their is a lease agreement. Land office visit with the money generated thirty receipts for each yearly payment, one to be presented to the land office yearly until thirty years were up.

Wiser farang than I give the land to their significant other, and keep ownerhip of the house to themselves, understating the value of the house substantially and rarely having a porblem.

[opalhort]

No time to argue.  In the interim I had learned that the Vat on rental proceeds is payable whether the rent is payed or not, assumeing their is a lease agreement.  Land office visit with the money generated thirty receipts for each yearly payment, one to be presented to the land office yearly until thirty years were up.

Wiser farang than I give the land to their significant other, and keep ownerhip of the house to themselves, understating the value of the house substantially and rarely having a porblem.

can somebody please advise if my understanding is correct (we as a company lease land from an individual - my wife)?

1. if the lessor is a company, VAT has to be paid

2. if the lessor is an induvidual but the lessee a company, 5% withholding tax has to be deducted and paid by the company. the lessor has to declare the income on form 90 by every March 31, deducting the tax already withheld. (this is our case).

3. if lessor and lessee are individuals, no VAT or withholding tax is involved but lessor has to declare the income on form 90/91.

opalhort