LINE check plan gets the flak: PM and Anudith among critics of move to monitor chat users

[webfact]

FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION
Line check plan gets the flak
The Nation



PM and Anudith among critics of move to monitor chat users

BANGKOK: -- An attempt by the police's Technology Crime Suppression Division (TCSD) to exert control over Thai users of the globally popular chat application Line has been scoffed at by both by the Information and Communication Technology Ministry and the online society.

A statement by division commander Pol Maj-General Pisit Paoin that Line Corporation had agreed to cooperate contradicted an official statement by the Japan-based company, which declined to comment on the issue.

"Since Line Corporation has not received any official request from the Thai police, we cannot provide any answers to the questions on this issue at this point," a statement from the company said in response to a query from The Nation.

"Line does not collect or store any information from its users, as we protect users' privacy and maintain a global-level of security standards," the statement said.

ICT Minister Anudith Nakorn-thap said later that his ministry and the government disagreed with Pisit's initiative and they had no authority to check on private messages sent and received by Thai Line users. "It's a violation of privacy, and the ICT [Ministry] deems the initiative unnecessary," he added.

"The government has no policy to limit or violate the privacy of netizens, and in this case of Thai Line users," he said.

In another effort to discourage anti-government attempts by political rivals, TCSD commander Pisit earlier said the agency had asked Line Corp in Japan to cooperate. He said TCSD officials would be sent to Japan to seek information about "suspicious Line users" in Thailand. He did not clarify whom he meant by "suspicious Line users".

Pisit's attempt seems to have hit a snag when Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra expressed dismay about his initiative, saying the government maintained its stance on privacy and freedom of expression. "We are not emphasising [chat] applications' usage, but rather people [who slander or spread false information] who use them," she said.

Pisit's remarks, made in a radio interview yesterday morning, contradicted Line's statement in the afternoon. He said Line Corp had cooperated with his initial request, which he said was made earlier in the year. He said Line users categorised as "having potential to commit crimes" would be put on a watch list. In addition, a words-filtering tool, which would flag words like "guns", "monarchy" and "coup" for special monitoring, would be devised to work in conjunction with the Line program.

Stance softened

Pisit softened his stance in an interview at a press conference, saying it was Line's right to decide whether it wanted to cooperate. "If they do not, we have other ways to inspect Line messages. But it would be good if they do, it would be helpful" to TCSD work to check out on Line users.

The prime minister's nephew Panthongtae, who has a large number of online media followers loyal to the ruling Pheu Thai Party and his father Thaksin Shinawatra, also dismissed Pisit's initiative. He said he disagreed strongly with the idea, as that would only turn away netizens and public members.

Panthongtae said he had contacted Aunt Pou (Yingluck's nickname) and his father on a daily basis through Line and had not heard any of them criticising this chat app. "Chat apps act merely like a road that serves motorists, who should be dealt with individually in case they travel on this road to commit crimes," he said on Facebook.

Cyber lawyer Paiboon Amonpinyokeat said the TCSD had the right to request information but companies would normally refuse to oblige, especially taking into account Japanese and South Korean laws. Also, such international requests for information would need a court order. The agency can request information if it clearly involves crimes, but it is up to Line to decide.


-- The Nation 2013-08-14

[Chao Lao Beach]

Edited - due thought police.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Chao Lao Beach

[Thai at Heart]

Deleted. Freedom of speech and all that....

[Songhua]

Someone is telling "white lies". It must be LINE

Maybe he misinterpreted 'we might be willing to assist with information in a criminal case' as 'please feel free to undertake blanket surveillance of your citizens'.

An honest mistake.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Songhua

[Chittychangchang]

Pisit couldn't organize a pisup in a brewery.

CCC

[jaidam]

Interesting to see Pantongtae being groomed for his role as future dear leader of Thailand. I thought possibly one of the daughters would be installed in that role, especially after she was married off to the Cambodian elite. Pantongtae proves a problem as producing an heir could be difficult.

[chainarong]

The Question remains in the smoking mirrors, what else has this department been up to ,TCSD needs to be disbanded , they act like they have the moral right to choose on behalf of the people of Thailand, Democracy, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, is all about freedom , not telling the good people of Mongolia your interpretation.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Monumental loss of face for Pisit..

Common sense from the government; especially happy with Panthongtae. They're on the right track.

[Thai at Heart]

Monumental loss of face for Pisit..

Common sense from the government; especially happy with Panthongtae. They're on the right track.

He was on TV just now. Dsi has a line account.....

[boomerangutang]

Panthongtae said he had contacted Aunt Pou (Yingluck's nickname)

If he walks, talks, and acts like a spoiled kid, it's reasonable to assume he's a spoiled kid.

[Thai at Heart]

Panthongtae said he had contacted Aunt Pou (Yingluck's nickname)

If he walks, talks, and acts like a spoiled kid, it's reasonable to assume he's a spoiled kid.

Hey, he's the only person outside government or media who has bothered to voice an opinion against it.

Irony.

[RickeyParkany]

Reason--for whatever reason---prevails...for now. ;-} rap.

[jaidam]

Panthongtae said he had contacted Aunt Pou (Yingluck's nickname)

If he walks, talks, and acts like a spoiled kid, it's reasonable to assume he's a spoiled kid.

Hey, he's the only person outside government or media who has bothered to voice an opinion against it.

Irony.

I'm normally in full agreement with your postings, but Oak is outside the government in the same way that Willie Wales is outside the UK royal family. There is not a single MP in Thailand that doesn't answer "How shiny sir?" when he tells them to polish his mirror.

[lomatopo]

Pretty sure these ubiquitous IM/Chat apps like LINE, WahtsApp! are un-encrypted.

LINE's privacy policy:

Provision of Information http://line.naver.jp/line_rules/en/

The Company will never provide user information to any third parties except under the following circumstances:

•when the user personally agrees to such provisions in advance

•when the law requires the Company to do so

•when the Company finds sufficient enough reasons to believe that the user is violating the Terms of Service and the Company is forced to disclose the user's personal information in order to protect the Company's rights, properties, and/or services

•when it is necessary for the protection of a person's life, body, or property, and at such a time, when obtaining the user's prior consent is difficult

•when it is especially necessary for the improvement of public health or to promote the sound growth of children, and at such a time, when obtaining the user's prior consent is difficult

•when the Company is required to cooperate with a state institution, a local government, or an individual or a business operator entrusted by one in executing the affairs prescribed by laws and regulations, and at such a time, when obtaining the users prior consent could impede the aims of the authorities

•in cases where the user's personal information is revealed as a result of the succession of the Company's business in a merger, demerger, or business transfer, etc.

[dcutman]

Pisit's attempt seems to have hit a snag when Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra expressed dismay about his initiative, saying the government maintained its stance on privacy and freedom of expression. "We are not emphasising [chat] applications' usage, but rather people [who slander or spread false information] who use them," she said.

This is dismay by our champion of Democracy? It sounds just like what this lunatic Pisit has been saying for the last week or so.

Edited August 14, 2013 by dcutman

[Thai at Heart]

Panthongtae said he had contacted Aunt Pou (Yingluck's nickname)

If he walks, talks, and acts like a spoiled kid, it's reasonable to assume he's a spoiled kid.

Hey, he's the only person outside government or media who has bothered to voice an opinion against it.

Irony.

I'm normally in full agreement with your postings, but Oak is outside the government in the same way that Willie Wales is outside the UK royal family. There is not a single MP in Thailand that doesn't answer "How shiny sir?" when he tells them to polish his mirror.

Well he's a private citizen, who has a voice loud enough that he's said.

Hey, monitoring chat programmes isn't on.

The fact that he's part of the family that everyone is claiming is setting this up to control Thailand, makes it even more prescient. Nice to see unity of policy among the family.

Could you imagine if the children of western pms or presidents had t tweeted.

Hey daddy, do we need a war in Iraq?

I await abac saying "88% of respondents were scared to voice an opinion whether or not monitoring line was a violation of their rights".

As I wrote, it appears dsi Bangkok has a line account. I suggest everyone in Thailand drop them a line.

[gemini81]

This man makes absolutely no sense; who would believe him over the credibility of Line company? 555

Wonder if he did an intern with Chalerm in the past?

Edited August 14, 2013 by gemini81

[Yunla]

If you buy a PC and pay your ISP charges, or just pay for a webcafe session, you are a customer, and customers occupy the higher position over the supplier in all cases. That means you have rights to not have your privacy and enjoyment violated.

What all this 'we have the right to snoop you' nonsense totally ignores is that the internet is self-regulating along common-sense, rational and humane lines. For example if somebody in Chatroom X were to say "I'm going to commit this <violent crime> <abuse> etc. tonight" then the other chat users WILL report him/her and that is when the Chatroom security can start taking action and reporting that individual to police. The internet is a self-regulating system, by the users and for the users. Only when a user steps out of the lines of accepted decency and human norms, will s/he be reported by other users and become a target for surveillance/prosecution. That is how it should be, innocent until proven guilty. Especially as all serious crime is organised offline in signal-swept backrooms anyway.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Yunla

[Thai at Heart]

If you buy a PC and pay your ISP charges, or just pay for a webcafe session, you are a customer, and customers occupy the higher position over the supplier in all cases. That means you have rights to not have your privacy and enjoyment violated.

What all this 'we have the right to snoop you' nonsense totally ignores is that the internet is self-regulating along common-sense, rational and humane lines. For example if somebody in Chatroom X were to say "I'm going to commit this <violent crime> <abuse> etc. tonight" then the other chat users WILL report him/her and that is when the Chatroom security can start taking action and reporting that individual to police. The internet is a self-regulating system, by the users and for the users. Only when a user steps out of the lines of accepted decency and human norms, will s/he be reported by other users and become a target for surveillance/prosecution. That is how it should be, innocent until proven guilty. Especially as all serious crime is organised offline in signal-swept backrooms anyway.

Since when did the rights of customers outweigh the rights of the supplier and the country, in Thailand. This is a fundamental cultural point of view in Thailand. Benefitting companies at the expense of the Thai consumer is virtually a national law, there are no monopoly laws, they prevent extra competition by preventing liberalisation, hence why companies are able to basically dictate to the market the price they will charge. I mean what is the point in opening a company if you have to take a risk and face a packed market?

The people are subjegated to the will of the government and companies. Not the other way round.

Then if you complain or challenge the service you will get, you essentially have little right to complain, then take it public and you will get walloped with a defamation suit.

[webfact]

ICT Ministry opposes Line censorship
By English News



BANGKOK, Aug 14 – Thailand's Information and Communication Technology Ministry (ICT) has objected to an attempt by a police agency to interfere in the public's use of Line, a highly popular world communication application.

ICT Minister Anudith Nakornthap stressed his disagreement with the Technology Crime Suppression Division (TCSD) in checking people’s communications on Line application, saying it would be an infringement of the individual’s right to communication.

“Line has been widely used worldwide and everyone is entitled to it. I assure that the government does not have any policy of violating an individual’s right. Checking chats on Line must be approved by the developer of the programme,” he said.

About 7.3 million people in Thailand have registered with Line and the application has been downloaded by at least 15 million people from the total 200 million users worldwide. Line users in Thailand are the third highest in the world.

TCSD chief Pisit Pao-in said the measure was to monitor offences concerning weapons trading, drug trafficking, prostitution and violation of intellectual property through communication on Line.

He denied allegations that the TCSD was finding fault among people chatting on Line and ruled out an allegation that it would violate human rights.

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said it was not the government’s intention to restrict people’s freedom of expression and the use of the application should not be related to national security.

“If the agency is checking or following (someone), it should be on an individual basis,” she said. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2013-08-14

[boomerangutang]

Wonder if he did an intern with Chalerm in the past?

They keep talking about "people who break laws" or who are morally incorrect. Why do I not get that warm and fuzzy feeling when whiskey-guzzling VIPs are self-appointed to make off-the-cuff judgements on who is morally correct, and who isn't.

[rametindallas]

Interesting to see Pantongtae being groomed for his role as future dear leader of Thailand. I thought possibly one of the daughters would be installed in that role, especially after she was married off to the Cambodian elite. Pantongtae proves a problem as producing an heir could be difficult.

Thaksin's niece to wed son of Cambodian MP

http://ki-media.blogspot.com/2012/07/thaksins-niece-to-wed-son-of-cambodian.html

[rametindallas]

General Pisit has stepped in it. He is obviously not in the inner circle or he would know all the cool people associated with the Yingluck government use Line extensively. They do not want him going on a fishing trip through their communications. If he did, he would be as powerful/untouchable as Chalerm, who has dirt on anyone/everyone of importance. One Chalerm is enough and General Pisit must be brought up short.

[MikeOboe57]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[tominbkk]

Interesting, the V for Thailand group uses line to announce when and where meet-ups are held. suppose that could have been one group of suspects, 555.

[webfact]

UPDATE:
LINE Corporation refuses to give up users information for Cyber Crime Police

BANGKOK, 14 Aug 2013 (NNT) - Line Corporation, a popular online text messaging service provider, reaffirms its stance on its user's privacy, refusing to give up its user data to police while disclosing that it has not been officially contacted by the Technology Crime Suppression Division (TCSD) regarding the matter.

Commander of the TCSD, Police Major General Pisit Pao-in, commented on the division's policy to curb cyber crimes by inspecting social media application such as LINE, Whatsapp, and Facebook on smart phones and personal computer, saying that the measure would only be applied to suspects of a cyber crimes only.

He explained that only those whose actions may compromise the 3 national security principles would be subjected to the division's proposed social media probe. The 3 principles are national security, public peace & order, and social morals.

Police Major General Pisit reiterated that the probe would not violate the basic human right, stressing the TCSD's jurisdiction only covers the inspection of application's contact list which would be used to identify law offenders. He ensures officials would not intrude personal conversations.

The TCSD commander said that the division is currently coordinating with the Royal Thai Police's social media monitoring center in hunting down those responsible for advertising illegal goods and services such as prostitution, drugs and firearms through the use of social media like Facebook and Twitter.

Meanwhile, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra commented on the matter saying that she has not yet received details of the TCSD’s action. She however chimed in her opinion that when it comes to the delicate issue of violating human right and upholding national security, the proceeding of the policy has to be done in a case by case manner.

Human Right Committee member, Medical Dr. Nirun Pitakwatchara, called on the TCSD not to use its power to violate human rights, pointing out concerns that by interfering with Line Corp.'s operation and obtaining its user database, the TCSD may violate Section 38 of the Constitution which protects Thai citizen's communication privacy from the government's interference.


-- NNT 2013-08-14

[pattayaorganic]

Try Viber...

[Emess]

Whatever, no more line for me

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[tominbkk]

Whatever, no more line for me

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Unless you are doing something illegal with line, no problem in using it.

[Cnxforever]

"He did not clarify whom he meant by "suspicious Line users"."

His Mia Noi suspected to have a younger boyfriend she is chatting with???