Friend fined for littering

[bharr]

A friend of mine was fined yesterday for flicking a cigarette butt into a storm drain. As soon as he did this he was set upon by three police who demanded a 10,000 Baht fine. He said that he hadn't got that much money and they dropped it to 2,000 Baht. He showed them how much money he has in his possession, about 300 Baht, and they took this. He said that the police were menacing and aggressive and dropping hints about jails in Thailand.

Is this legal and what should I or any westerner do if something similar happens. What would be the correct way to respond.

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[zeichen]

FYI Don't litter in Thailand.

Yes, it was a shakedown, but throwing cigarette butts is nasty, lucky wasn't in Singapore.

[trainman34014]

Shame they don't harass their own kind as they discharge filth on to the sides of just about every road, in every field and even their own gardens.

[steve down under]

Simple Dont flick a fag butt in the street and voila no fine

[lomatopo]

Assuming the location is Bangkok?

There have been many, many, many, many threads on this subject.

The police are "sidewalk" police, so part of the BMA rather than the RTP.

The fine for littering is 2,000 baht, although some, including Thais, negotiate this down to 200 baht.

The obvious solution is to not litter.

When I advised a girth-challenged Brit on Sukhumvit, in a nice, friendly tone, that he was being observed by the sidewalk police smoking, and that they would approach him as soon as he discarded his cigarette, he told me to "go <deleted> myself". He got hooked. Now I refrain from warning people.

Edited August 15, 2013 by lomatopo

[somtampet]

10,000 Baht isnt enough

[bharr]

Assuming the location is Bangkok?

There have been many, many, many, many threads on this subject.

The police are "sidewalk" police, so part of the BMA rather than the RTP.

The fine for littering is 2,000 baht, although some, including Thais, negotiate this down to 200 baht.

The obvious solution is to not litter.

When I advised a girth-challenged Brit on Sukhumvit, in a nice, friendly tone, that he was being observed by the sidewalk police smoking, and that they would approach him as soon as he discarded his cigarette, he told me to "go <deleted> myself". He got hooked. Now I refrain from warning people.

Thanks for this

Yes, it was Bangkok, Sukhumvit, near Soi 11 or thereabouts.

How would I recognise sidewalk police?

Cheers

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[bharr]

Funny thing is that my friend thought he was being careful and flicked it down a storm drain so he wouldn't be littering. I can understand the reasons for fining litterers though.

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[MB1]

Funny thing is that my friend thought he was being careful and flicked it down a storm drain so he wouldn't be littering. I can understand the reasons for fining litterers though.

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Safest thing to do IMHO is to take your litter home or discard it in a bin , that way you get to keep your money in your pocket and don't get a shake down...Litter bugs are all over the world and need educating especially the Thai's....

[aussieinthailand]

Funny thing is that my friend thought he was being careful and flicked it down a storm drain so he wouldn't be littering. I can understand the reasons for fining litterers though.

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yu'p littering is a problem, and your friend should have been fined, lesson lerned

[JaiLai]

Shame they don't harass their own kind as they discharge filth on to the sides of just about every road, in every field and even their own gardens.

I agree, the national symbol of thailand should be the discarded water bottle or white styrofoam (SP) somtan carton, place is a disgrace!

[Tywais]

Simple Dont flick a fag butt in the street and voila no fine

Yes but he tossed it down a storm drain so they have no proof and it is not littering the street which is what the law should be concerned about. So shake down indeed. 2000 Baht is the standard fine for this.

[johnnyj]

I got done once for $1,000 baht. Only had 1000 baht notes on me, so I negotiated first!

Nowadays I make a point of looking them in the eye as I carefully stub it out and put the ciggy butt in the bin. You know what?

Usually they smile and give me a thumbs up. I didn't complain about the fine because I was in the wrong.

I've never littered in Thailand since.

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[dave2]

re

How would I recognise sidewalk police?

they sit on mountain bikes watching everyone especially smokers from 15 to 25 yards away and as soon as you drop the dog end they rush up to you before youve got six feet away !

take you back while pointing at it and it

used to be 1000 baht

maybe its gone up ?

dave2

ps .. a favorite place of theirs is

outside limpini park on suckhamvit road !

[harrry]

Simple Dont flick a fag butt in the street and voila no fine

Yes but he tossed it down a storm drain so they have no proof and it is not littering the street which is what the law should be concerned about. So shake down indeed. 2000 Baht is the standard fine for this.

Should have been 4000 an extra 2000 for blocking the drains and causing flooding. Sorry little sympathy for this.

[Tywais]

Back on Bangkok’s streets – the ‘cigarette police’ who target foreign litter bugs

Uniformed inspectors known as Thetsakij ignore piles of vendors’ rubbish and motorcyclists using the sidewalk

By Maxmilian Wechsler

BANGKOK’S infamous “litter police” are on the prowl again – and they’re nabbing people who drop something as small as a cigarette butt and imposing a fine of up to 2,000 baht on them. These “enforcers” are stationed at booths at three locations in central Bangkok along Sukhumvit Road.

Actually, they aren’t even police, but uniformed inspectors attached to the Law Enforcement Department of the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA), known in Thai as ‘Thetsakij.’ However, tourists commonly mistake them for police because of similar uniform designs, colours and badges.

Thetsakij do nothing to dispel this impression, often telling foreigners they are “city police,” which is another name for the Metropolitan Police. In reality, the Thetsakij don’t have the same powers as the police and cannot carry firearms.

Click here toThe three booths are located between Sois 2-4, 10-12 and 22-24 (Benjasiri Park). Each has a banner in Thai that can be translated as: “If you don’t litter, and don’t get caught and fined, Bangkok smiles.” The problem, of course, is that most foreigners walking past cannot read Thai – and these are the very people who are usually apprehended.

One of the responsibilities of the BMA inspectors is to keep Bangkok footpaths and streets clean and tidy. Littering in public places is an offence in nearly every city and offenders are liable to fines.

What’s troubling in this case is that the inspectors seem to only target and apprehend foreigners in three areas that measure several hundred square meters out of Bangkok’s total area of about 1,500 square kilometers. The overwhelming majority of the city’s litterbugs are simply ignored by the Thetsakij. Walk the streets of central Bangkok and beyond, and piles of garbage are more often than not in evidence.

Read more

My comment: Bottom line, they are not police but seem to have taken up the scam baton.

[Tywais]

An article in the Bangkok Post (search for it) stated an investigative team (Spectrum) monitored them for several weeks and found not a single Thai was fined, all were foreigner. They consider it a money making scheme only. Many more articles out there saying the same thing, targeting foreigners/tourists.

[Tywais]

The “Litter Scam” in Bangkok

After the Bangkok Post article came out there were a lot of comments about it in their letter’s page and also on Internet forums. Many people came out to say that they were fined 2,000 baht by these officials and were never given a receipt. They were hassled and told that if they didn’t pay the fine on the spot then they would have to go to the local police station where they would have to pay more. Interestingly, Manit Techa-apichoke, the deputy director of the City Law Enforcement Department, told the the Bangkok Post a few days later “foreigners who feel they have been unfairly targeted by the thetsakij should refuse to pay the fines”. Really? How many tourists know the difference between a police uniform and the one of the “thetsakij”. Most are too scared and just pay the fine.

More here

[I Like Thai]

The problem, of course, is that most foreigners walking past cannot read Thai

The shouldn't need to be able to read Thai, they should already know that they should not litter.

[MB1]

An article in the Bangkok Post (search for it) stated an investigative team (Spectrum) monitored them for several weeks and found not a single Thai was fined, all were foreigner. They consider it a money making scheme only. Many more articles out there saying the same thing, targeting foreigners/tourists.

That's exactly what it is IMO, a money making scheme targeted at tourists only, they don't want to fine their own breed or face the wrath of the Thai's if they try, it's wrong but TIT, the best thing for tourists is to not litter but that aint ever going to happen 100% and someone will always fall into the trap, best thing we can do is to keep reminding people not to litter and keep their money in their pockets rather than giving it to the shakedown brigade..

[besth]

Putting something down a storm drain is considered littering?

[robblok]

My mom smokes but just brings a portable ashtray that can be closed and disposes of them back home. Its not that hard smoking is a dirty enough habit as is. I also keep my trash with me till I find a bin, quite normal though it does take long to find bins over here.

[harrry]

Putting something down a storm drain is considered littering?

yes,

and while you have every right to smoke in private and away from me this site may explain about cigarette buts in storm drains.

http://www.preventcigarettelitter.org/why_it_matters/environment.html

You will get fined in many countries for it if caught and it has consequences.

[besth]

Putting something down a storm drain is considered littering?

yes,

and while you have every right to smoke in private and away from me this site may explain about cigarette buts in storm drains.

http://www.preventcigarettelitter.org/why_it_matters/environment.html

You will get fined in many countries for it if caught and it has consequences.

Thank you for the information.

I do not smoke, but I thought storm drains were fine to dispose of light items. paper tissues and things like that. There are so few right places to dispose of things that it very much invites to get rid of them in any way you can.

[Puyai]

I got stopped, after I flicked my cigarette but down a storm drain while waiting for a bus at Victory Monument. The first thing the officer asked me was, "do I speak Thai". I answered him in Thai. He then went on to ask me where I live and what I do. I answered him politely. He then went on to point out what I did wrong. I said sorry and gave him a nice wai. That was it, he let me go. So it is a scam but one you can talk your way out of.

And yes, before anyone starts, I was a bad boy and I will never do it again.

[evadgib]

Funny thing is that my friend thought he was being careful and flicked it down a storm drain so he wouldn't be littering. I can understand the reasons for fining litterers though.

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What evidence did they have? If they had video footage how could they justify the THB 10k? If they didn't have any why did the victim cough?

Something doesn't add up.

Edited August 15, 2013 by evadgib

[MB1]

Funny thing is that my friend thought he was being careful and flicked it down a storm drain so he wouldn't be littering. I can understand the reasons for fining litterers though.

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What evidence did they have? If they had video footage how could they justify the THB 10k? If the didn't have any why did the victim cough?

Something doesn't add up.

Where did the OP mention video footage, ?, he mentioned FINING, did you think he meant FILMING....?....He paid three hundred baht not the 10000 the OP said they asked for initially and 2000 baht seems to be the norm for the litter police for tourists so he got off very lightly paying 300...

[Tywais]

An inappropriate and off topic post and replies removed.

[yourauntbob]

As much as i agree that people should not litter they should inforce these laws uniformly across everyone. Recently I have given up (mostly) smoking but when i did i always put the cig out and threw them in the bins, carrying them for as long as needed.

A friend visiting once had these people come up to him and threaten him as well. He dropped a cig on the ground and they were demanding 2000 baht from him. He called me to ask if this was legit and I put the Ms. Auntbob on the phone with them. She laid into them pretty good as why they dont enforce this against Thai people, what their badge number was and who they report to. By the time she was done with them they told her to tell our friend to just not do it again and walked away haha.

I am all for cleaning up the city, but lets stop harrasing and blaming the farangs. i am starting to think they keep us around so they have someone to blame.

[tartempion]

Nasty farangs!!!

Thais don't litter, thus no need to chase them to fine them but follow a farang: they litter as rabbits, sad, very sad.