Water leak.. need help

[Jayman]

So we have a house on the darkside and our normal water bill for the past many years has been in the 300-500thb range. Now we are getting bills for 1200-1500thb a month. Something is definitely wrong. The meter is spinning all the time and this means we have a leak. We can turn off the water from a valve outside our house and then the meter stops spinning. We don't seem to have a leak inside the house anywhere and had 2 different people come look and they think it's a leak from the outside of the house where the pips come into the house. Those pips are underground (on our land) and it's believed the roots from trees have cracked the pipes.

So here is where the problem lies.... no one wants to do the repairs. The people that have come out thus far keep saying they will return but never do. We can't keep waiting while our monthly bills are so high. We turn off the water now when not being used and still this past bill was 1400thb. The place to start digging is from where we turn off the water by our water tanks and then follow that line to the house. Concrete will need to be broken to get to the earth underneath where the pipes are buried. We are not talking about a huge distance that needs to be investigated. Prob less than 20 feet.

Can anyone recommend someone to do this job? If you have some contact details for a worker then please feel free to PM me if posting in the forum is not allowed. It's so hard to get anyone to do work here. Even without discussing money the Thais that have come out never return. They keep saying they will but never do. I'm told that they don't like working on built houses and would rather lay new pipe in houses being build as it's much easier work for them. There must be some workers that need to earn money and will take on this job. I really can't see it taking more than a few days.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[BB1950]

Before you go the expensive of tearing things up, have you checked for a toliet leak? If the toilet is leaking, you can repair yourself. Just search Google for leaking toilet, you they give you intructions for testing an repairing. Usually it's just the rubber flapper in the bottom of the tank.

[Jayman]

Before you go the expensive of tearing things up, have you checked for a toliet leak? If the toilet is leaking, you can repair yourself. Just search Google for leaking toilet, you they give you intructions for testing an repairing. Usually it's just the rubber flapper in the bottom of the tank.

yes we have. All the taps inside the house that have valves like sinks and toilets have been turned off and the water meter still is turning. It does not seem to be the case of a leak inside the house plumbing but is much more likely caused by roots from a big tree in our yard cracking the pipes in the earth where it's buried.

[blackman]

assuming you are correct about the underground pipe being cracked, rather than dig it all up is it not possible to replace the pipe with an above ground one?

that's what i did, cost less than 2000

Edited August 15, 2013 by blackman

[Jingthing]

It's seems really true about a critical labor shortage of skilled plumbing tradesman to do REPAIRS. I recently had a pretty minor problem and it was major nightmare even getting someone to even have a look. When you consider they can overcharge f-rangs, that says even more.

[Jayman]

assuming you are correct about the underground pipe being cracked, rather than dig it all up is it not possible to replace the pipe with an above ground one?

that's what i did, cost less than 2000

Sure that is very possible but I still need a thai to come out and do the work. Can you recommend one or did you do all the work yourself? Unfortunately, I can mend pips but drilling through concrete and running new pips to my house are a bit beyond what I feel comfortable doing. I don't even think I can fit through the opening that gets me under my house to work on the connection of the pips to the house supply.

EDIT:

I should also add that we have 2 ways to get water into the house. Via the city water line and from our tanks (via help from our pump). The water from the city runs into our property and goes to a valve which either diverts the water to the house line or the tanks to fill them. I use that valve to chose between using the city water directly or using the tank water. It's that valve that I have been using to stop the water from going to the house lines and diverting to the tanks which keeps the meter from spinning. I also have a power switch for the pump that I leave off when doing this so that tank water is not being leaked out into the pipes. If I turn the pump on I can hear it going on/off every minute or so to compensate for the pressure being lost via the leak. This is how I know the leak is occurring after this valve rather than before is from the water meter to the valve. I will go out and take a picture of the valve and hopefully that will explain how the digging needs to start there to find the leak. We could start the digging there and cut the pipe and lay new pips to the house as suggested and that might be much better than digging up the yard to find the cracked pipe going to the house. Thanks for that suggestion.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Jayman

[blackman]

assuming you are correct about the underground pipe being cracked, rather than dig it all up is it not possible to replace the pipe with an above ground one?

that's what i did, cost less than 2000

Sure that is very possible but I still need a thai to come out and do the work. Can you recommend one or did you do all the work yourself? Unfortunately, I can mend pips but drilling through concrete and running new pips to my house are a bit beyond what I feel comfortable doing. I don't even think I can fit through the opening that gets me under my house to work on the connection of the pips to the house supply.

EDIT:

I should also add that we have 2 ways to get water into the house. Via the city water line and from our tanks (via help from our pump). The water from the city runs into our property and goes to a valve which either diverts the water to the house line or the tanks to fill them. I use that valve to chose between using the city water directly or using the tank water. It's that valve that I have been using to stop the water from going to the house lines and diverting to the tanks which keeps the meter from spinning. I also have a power switch for the pump that I leave off when doing this so that tank water is not being leaked out into the pipes. If I turn the pump on I can hear it going on/off every minute or so to compensate for the pressure being lost via the leak. This is how I know the leak is occurring after this valve rather than before is from the water meter to the valve. I will go out and take a picture of the valve and hopefully that will explain how the digging needs to start there to find the leak. We could start the digging there and cut the pipe and lay new pips to the house as suggested and that might be much better than digging up the yard to find the cracked pipe going to the house. Thanks for that suggestion.

i had almost exactly the same problem as you at another house

after a number of growing government bills and a wildly spinning meter for no reason , it turned out not to be a pipe leak at all

it was the valve and ballcock

once replaced at 200 baht cost

problem solved, when tank full, valve closed, meter stopped

i was skeptical about this cure, as i expect you will be but it worked and that was that

for 200 baht i urge you to give it a go

good luck

[Jayman]

assuming you are correct about the underground pipe being cracked, rather than dig it all up is it not possible to replace the pipe with an above ground one?

that's what i did, cost less than 2000

Sure that is very possible but I still need a thai to come out and do the work. Can you recommend one or did you do all the work yourself? Unfortunately, I can mend pips but drilling through concrete and running new pips to my house are a bit beyond what I feel comfortable doing. I don't even think I can fit through the opening that gets me under my house to work on the connection of the pips to the house supply.

EDIT:

I should also add that we have 2 ways to get water into the house. Via the city water line and from our tanks (via help from our pump). The water from the city runs into our property and goes to a valve which either diverts the water to the house line or the tanks to fill them. I use that valve to chose between using the city water directly or using the tank water. It's that valve that I have been using to stop the water from going to the house lines and diverting to the tanks which keeps the meter from spinning. I also have a power switch for the pump that I leave off when doing this so that tank water is not being leaked out into the pipes. If I turn the pump on I can hear it going on/off every minute or so to compensate for the pressure being lost via the leak. This is how I know the leak is occurring after this valve rather than before is from the water meter to the valve. I will go out and take a picture of the valve and hopefully that will explain how the digging needs to start there to find the leak. We could start the digging there and cut the pipe and lay new pips to the house as suggested and that might be much better than digging up the yard to find the cracked pipe going to the house. Thanks for that suggestion.

i had almost exactly the same problem as you at another house

after a number of growing government bills and a wildly spinning meter for no reason , it turned out not to be a pipe leak at all

it was the valve and ballcock

once replaced at 200 baht cost

problem solved, when tank full, valve closed, meter stopped

i was skeptical about this cure, as i expect you will be but it worked and that was that

for 200 baht i urge you to give it a go

good luck

Thanks for the suggestion but that has been tested and that's not the issue of the leak. As I stated, when I turn the valve to divert city water to the tank the meter stops spinning. This means that the tank valve is not the cause of the leak. It when the city water is diverted to the house that the meter spins. That is when the tanks are out of the loop. With the tanks in the loop there is no sign of a leak.

[simple1]

OP: Have you tried approaching Nong Prue Amphur to see if you can hire one of their repair crews?

[Jayman]

OP: Have you tried approaching Nong Prue Amphur to see if you can hire one of their repair crews?

I have not. Is that done by going ot the Nong Prue Amphur office a the end of Nern Plub Wan and inquiring there?

[Gone]

First thing you need to do is have the Water Company come out to re-calibrate your meter. These need re-calibrating every so often as do Electric meters. If you go to either meter company you will see thousands of them in the repair yards waiting to be calibrated/re-calibrated.

[Jayman]

First thing you need to do is have the Water Company come out to re-calibrate your meter. These need re-calibrating every so often as do Electric meters. If you go to either meter company you will see thousands of them in the repair yards waiting to be calibrated/re-calibrated.

So that involves calling the water company and asking them to come out and recalibrate the meter? Seems along shot to get them to come out any time soon and do more work that will only go to bring them in less money.

The fact is, we must have a leak cause I can see the meter spinning when the water is diverted to my house and no water is being used. When I divert the water to the storage tanks and they are full, no spinning meter. So even if the meter is not calibrated, I still have leak that needs to be fixed.

[transam]

I had the same problem TWICE . Under the kitchen floor . Had to cut the tiles, knock up the concrete and dig it all up. I had know idea where it was, BUT something told me where to dig . IT, was right. ...............

Actually the floor has been up THREE times, once for a drainage blockage, daft pipe routing........

[Jayman]

I had the same problem TWICE . Under the kitchen floor . Had to cut the tiles, knock up the concrete and dig it all up. I had know idea where it was, BUT something told me where to dig . IT, was right. ...............

Actually the floor has been up THREE times, once for a drainage blockage, daft pipe routing........

Just seems like if the pipes in the house are in concrete then there is little chance for them to break. The ones outside buried in the yard and subject to the other stuff in the ground like the big trees that are growing not far from them. This seems like the more likey cause of the leak but I want to get someone in to cut the pipe under the house that feeds the house and cap it and see if the meter is still moving. This would at least tell us if the problem was inside the house piping or with the piping feeding the house. It's also very cheap to cut the line, cap it, and then re connect it once we have tested.

[simple1]

OP: Have you tried approaching Nong Prue Amphur to see if you can hire one of their repair crews?

I have not. Is that done by going ot the Nong Prue Amphur office a the end of Nern Plub Wan and inquiring there?

Yes that's the location, end of Soi Nernplubwan & turn right don't know if they would undertake a private job, but worth trying

[geezer2]

jayman do you have your wife g/f famly living nearby just a thought ..

[jbrain]

With the amount of water you are losing, you should be able to detect some wet spot somewhere, even when it is under concrete.

!000 Bht worth of city water isn't a small amount anymore.

[transam]

Believe it or not, my leaks were pin holes in the plastic pipes, on close inspection there were tiny bits of metal in the plastic pipe that rusted over time and leaked. Why/how scrap metal got into the pipe is a production line mystery for me.

[jimmym40]

I know what you're going thru trying to find people to repair your problem.

Why don't you call one of the people that came out and looked at your problem. Just tell them, hey, I'll give you 1,000 baht (for your labor only) and if it takes you more than one day, I'll give you 2,000 baht to fix my problem. Give them an incentive to make a nice profit. It's worth a shot...

[4.real]

I had the same problem as have a few of my neighbours.

The builders of this estate [18 years old] used iron elbows joints and the water has rusted them under the house.

I called ESC housing maintenance [sorry ,do not have card now] and they had to put new plastic pipes around the house and join to the taps that way.They did a reasonably tidy job but I had to check all of their work and show them where they were going wrong before glueing.

I cannot remember the cost but It was reasonable ..6 years ago.I have pipes shpoeing in the bathroom and around the outside but you can pay extra and they will cut the concrete by your walls and sink the pipes if required. if required.

[Jayman]

the multi-quote function does not work for me and when I do it and try to post I get some error about incorrect image extension or something which is odd since no images are being used.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Jayman

[manarak]

I had a similar problem recently as well and as a previous poster wrote, it was the ballcock & valve in the tank.

800 baht more a month is a leak of approx. 75000 liters a month.

If the leak is underground, I would also be worried about the ground being washed-out.

[Jayman]

I had a similar problem recently as well and as a previous poster wrote, it was the ballcock & valve in the tank.

800 baht more a month is a leak of approx. 75000 liters a month.

If the leak is underground, I would also be worried about the ground being washed-out.

If the leak was the ball valve in the tank then you would see the tank overflow so that one is fairly obvious to detect. As I stated before, for me the leak is not to do with the tanks as to stop the meter moving I divert the city water to the tanks and when the tanks are full the meter stops spinning. Also, when I turn the pump on and divert the tank water to the house, I can hear the pump kicking in every minute to re pressurize the lines from the leaking pipes so that means the leak is outside the tanks on the other side of the pump. Somewhere after the pump which could be the lines to the house or a line inside the house.

[Jayman]

I know what you're going thru trying to find people to repair your problem.

Why don't you call one of the people that came out and looked at your problem. Just tell them, hey, I'll give you 1,000 baht (for your labor only) and if it takes you more than one day, I'll give you 2,000 baht to fix my problem. Give them an incentive to make a nice profit. It's worth a shot...

Yes I guess we will have to throw big money at them to see if they will come and do the work but even when they did come they don't seem that competent and to pay good money like that to less than competent workers seems silly. I would rather pay that amount to workers that really know what they doing and that is why I have come here looking for referrals to competent workers.

Unfortunately, not a single poster has referred anyone which kinda says something in itself.

I appreciate all the suggestions and will certainly look at the Ampur office to see if they can be hire for the job. Please keep the suggestions coming and hopefully a referral to some good workers.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Jayman

[Jayman]

Believe it or not, my leaks were pin holes in the plastic pipes, on close inspection there were tiny bits of metal in the plastic pipe that rusted over time and leaked. Why/how scrap metal got into the pipe is a production line mystery for me.

Well that certainly has me concerned then. If the problem is inside the house plumbing then the job is much bigger and more expensive, not to mention that once the tiles inside are destroyed it's often times hard to find exact replacements for them.

[manarak]

Believe it or not, my leaks were pin holes in the plastic pipes, on close inspection there were tiny bits of metal in the plastic pipe that rusted over time and leaked. Why/how scrap metal got into the pipe is a production line mystery for me.

Well that certainly has me concerned then. If the problem is inside the house plumbing then the job is much bigger and more expensive, not to mention that once the tiles inside are destroyed it's often times hard to find exact replacements for them.

one more argument in favor of building a house with a crawl space.

[Jayman]

Believe it or not, my leaks were pin holes in the plastic pipes, on close inspection there were tiny bits of metal in the plastic pipe that rusted over time and leaked. Why/how scrap metal got into the pipe is a production line mystery for me.

Well that certainly has me concerned then. If the problem is inside the house plumbing then the job is much bigger and more expensive, not to mention that once the tiles inside are destroyed it's often times hard to find exact replacements for them.

one more argument in favor of building a house with a crawl space.

We do have a crawl space under the house. Not big enough for me to get under there but certainly the thais can fit. I can put my head in there with a flashlight and see many of the incoming and exit pipes and I don't see any leaking from my vantage point. One of the workers I had come out went down there and investigated and also claimed to see no leaks. I'm still told that even with the pipes coming up through the crawl space that they run in the cement like in the bathroom and such. This would mean that tiles and cement need to be broken to access them. I don't think you can access them by breaking the concrete from the bottom.

[jbrain]

Believe it or not, my leaks were pin holes in the plastic pipes, on close inspection there were tiny bits of metal in the plastic pipe that rusted over time and leaked. Why/how scrap metal got into the pipe is a production line mystery for me.

Well that certainly has me concerned then. If the problem is inside the house plumbing then the job is much bigger and more expensive, not to mention that once the tiles inside are destroyed it's often times hard to find exact replacements for them.

As Manarak said, you lose probably 75.000 liter a month. If the leak is outside you will notice a wet spot, even if the leak is under concrete with that amount of water, but it will be difficult to notice when it's inside the house because ceramic tiles don't absorb water. May a discoloring of the grout can give you a hint.

[Jayman]

Believe it or not, my leaks were pin holes in the plastic pipes, on close inspection there were tiny bits of metal in the plastic pipe that rusted over time and leaked. Why/how scrap metal got into the pipe is a production line mystery for me.

Well that certainly has me concerned then. If the problem is inside the house plumbing then the job is much bigger and more expensive, not to mention that once the tiles inside are destroyed it's often times hard to find exact replacements for them.

As Manarak said, you lose probably 75.000 liter a month. If the leak is outside you will notice a wet spot, even if the leak is under concrete with that amount of water, but it will be difficult to notice when it's inside the house because ceramic tiles don't absorb water. May a discoloring of the grout can give you a hint.

But certainly then if the leak was from inside then we'd be able to see signs of it from in the crawl space under the house right?

[Timwin]

Thailand unemployment rate is 0.5 percent so no wonder you have trouble getting repairmen. My house roof has been now "fixed" three times because of rain water leakage but now it needs the 4th time. The trouble is the unskilled repair guy MIGHT be available next month and nobody seems to know any better guy!

Thailand seem to be a paradise for DIY guys if you want to do it right the first time I am considering putting plastic sheet or something all over the roof but probably will not be such a good idea