Australian arrested in Pattaya for threatening Australian embassy

[Suradit69]

Are you telling me that Mr Michael Walther in no longer the consulate in Chiang Mai? In my infrequent dealings with the Chiang Mai consulate I have found his English to be perfect [ I believe he was born in England] and at all times very helpful. If he is no longer the consulate in Chiang Mai I would appreciate someone confirming it.

Most likely he would (or wouldn't) be the consul rather than the enitre consulate.

[marell]

I wonder what's in the photo? The offended telephone at the embassy?

No.

It's of the animals he referred the embassy people as.

Police: look at this pictures mate, did you call the counsellor a Kwai?

Aussie: I plead the 5th.

Police: you called him an idiot then?

Aussie: I still want me daughter, can you help? I ll make it worth your while.

what's the 5th?????

An off-track reference to the US fifth Constitutional Amendment. Which, among other things, declares that a person cannot be compelled to testify against himself in a criminal case. "Taking The fifth" is a common expresion in US popular culture indicating a refusal to answer questions posed by the police or asked during court proceedings.

Edited August 17, 2013 by marell

[NCFC]

I must agree in some cases your home Embassy is less than helpful is certain situations. When you are met with resistance or illogical reasoning in any situation that is already heated it can cause even the most level-headed, mild-tempered person to voice their frustration. Especially when a child is involved. I mean we are humans not robots. We have emotions yet in countries like Thailand it is looked down upon to show those emotions.

My example: I went to my embassy for an emergency ticket back to my home country for medical reasons, I filled out the application, I was approved but it was already a Friday and was told that the 3rd party travel agency they use won't be open until Monday. I was also informed that upon arrival in my home country, my passport would be confiscated until I paid back that cost.

Well we all know how Governments around the world are overcharged for practically everything. Stories of $25 a doughnut at a brunch, so I could imagine how much a travel agency would charge my embassy for a 1-way ticket . Having to pay it back anyways, I opted to book myself a round-trip ticket on KAL

So why did you go to the embassy for an emergency ticket if you could afford one anyway?

[Beetlejuice]

I sympathize with him. He's already very upset over his child custody problem and to deal with sociopathic government drones on top of that cannot be easy.

Absolutely right.

I also feel sympathy for this guy, having to deal with all this bureaucratic non-compassionate BS and getting nowhere.

I guarantee that if this would have been the mother of the child, she would have been treated much differently, with dignity, compassion and like a human being.

[fire and ice]

A child born overseas to an Australian national and registered with the Australian embassy is automatically an Australian citizen, he should have stayed cool, taken the daughter on a holiday to Grandma in oz and stayed there, chances would have been slightly better and the payoff,more affordable......anyway..

As he did not have sole custody awarded by a Thai court, requires Thai mothers written permission for the child to depart Thailand

My understanding of the law (both Thialand or Australia) is that you only need written permission from both legal parents to get a passport (Thai or Aussie) for a child. Once you have a passport its easy to take them out of the country.

My kids have flown to/from Thailand accompanied only by thier Thai grandmother (different last name) & no one asks any questions.

FYI Note that me & my wife we are not spearate etc

Not sure if once the kid has a passport if one parent can contact immigration to deny permission to travel. But by default they will not stop anyone if they have a passport(+visas if applicable but my kids all have 2 passports Thai +Aussie)

[maxman71]

What a Clown!!

Makes me almost ashamed to be Australian when creatures such as this make idiots of themselves in Thailand. However, it must be said that he "looks" like a good upstanding, clean-cut example of a young Aussie and our Embassy should fall over backwards to race to his assistance and staff at the Embassy should be more than willing to take on-board whatever foul utterances he wishes to make. Yeh, and "Pigs can fly!"

Pack him up, send him back where he came from and toss him in jail to learn a lesson in good manners.

Ah, the hang em high brigade leader?

Thanks for your insight - JOBSWORTH.

Compassion is the understanding or empathy for the suffering of others.

Compassion is often regarded as having an emotional aspect to it, though when based on cerebral notions such as fairness, justice and interdependence, it may be considered rational in nature and its application understood as a activity based on sound judgment. There is also an aspect of compassion which regards a quantitative dimension, such that individual's compassion is often given a property of "depth," "vigour," or "passion." The etymology of "compassion" is Latin, meaning "co-suffering." More involved than simple empathy, compassion commonly gives rise to an active desire to alleviate another's suffering. It is often, though not inevitably, the key component in what manifests in the social context as altruism. In ethical terms, the various expressions down the ages of the so-called Golden Rule often embodies by implication the principle of compassion: Do to others what you would have them do to you.

I don't know what this chap said that constitutes making a threat. What I do know is when one walks into any embassy/consulate, it is wise to be on one's best behavior. Whether one likes it or not, embassy staff have a fair amount of power in how they respond to requests. I suggest when going any country's embassy, one should dress nicely, speak calmly and make your request politely. If you don't get a satisfactory response after politely, yet firmly pressing the matter, then take it up with a higher authority in the embassy pecking order.

[simple1]

A child born overseas to an Australian national and registered with the Australian embassy is automatically an Australian citizen, he should have stayed cool, taken the daughter on a holiday to Grandma in oz and stayed there, chances would have been slightly better and the payoff,more affordable......anyway..

As he did not have sole custody awarded by a Thai court, requires Thai mothers written permission for the child to depart Thailand

My understanding of the law (both Thialand or Australia) is that you only need written permission from both legal parents to get a passport (Thai or Aussie) for a child. Once you have a passport its easy to take them out of the country.

My kids have flown to/from Thailand accompanied only by thier Thai grandmother (different last name) & no one asks any questions.

FYI Note that me & my wife we are not spearate etc

Not sure if once the kid has a passport if one parent can contact immigration to deny permission to travel. But by default they will not stop anyone if they have a passport(+visas if applicable but my kids all have 2 passports Thai +Aussie)

Happened with someone I know in Australia whose Thai fiance was trying to flee the relationship & take their child back to Thailand, she & child were stopped at the airport - have to admit the guy was an arsexxxx. He eventually lost the custody battle & she remained in Australia with baby.

[hushai1]

I really feel sorry for the little girl, that probably will not receive a proper education and that will be brought up in a country that has no moral compass and no wisdom.

[jackspratt]

I really feel sorry for the little girl, that probably will not receive a proper education and that will be brought up in a country that has no moral compass and no wisdom.

I guess you meant to say "a different moral compass, and different wisdom".

That would make sense.

[attento]

I sympathize with him. He's already very upset over his child custody problem and to deal with sociopathic government drones on top of that cannot be easy.

I would say that embassy consular staff must deal with abusive calls on a regular basis when citizens are informed on what consular staff can and cannot do for them, yet no action is taken. As a complete assumption I would say that he went too far when threatening consular staff that lead them - AFP? - to decide to get the RTP involved.

I would guess that people he met in Thailand had misinformed him of his "rights" compounding his frustration and anger.

My guess is the person he spoke to may have been a Thai. Possibly an Australian citizen or someone who had studied in Australia but not someone who had lived there their whole life. When someone is upset and talking to the Australian Embassy they probably expect people to react and think in the same way as a person in an australian office does. Local staff however competant cannot give the same cultural context.

Since when did any Australian accept verbal abuse with calmness and equanimity ?

[Sayonarax]

Did he not go in to the embassy and go "i would like to speak to an Australian?" There are plenty there, doing what i have no idea. I'm sure if you had of asked the people inside the embassy to have a chat with some body who could of given him advice.

Its kinda hard to say there isn't any Australians at the embassy.. lol you guys must walk around with blinkers on.

Clearly the guy needs a lawyer and has only made an ass of himself.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Sayonarax

[ALFREDO]

A child born overseas to an Australian national and registered with the Australian embassy is automatically an Australian citizen, he should have stayed cool, taken the daughter on a holiday to Grandma in oz and stayed there, chances would have been slightly better and the payoff,more affordable......anyway..

As he did not have sole custody awarded by a Thai court, requires Thai mothers written permission for the child to depart Thailand

I went with my 6 year young Thai son on holiday to Malaysia (Moto GP event), no questions asked !

Went more than once over the land border with my different sons to Laos in Nong Khai, no questions asked!

Have the same family names in Thai- and my Passport.

But, had never any certificate, proofing my right, permission from mother with me!

Also when with the mother and children crossing borders, the children walk with me in a different queue, never questions asked.

Regarding a 8 month young Baby, even a more easy afford to bring the Baby unseen out. Details not allowed here.

What the law says is the theoretical point, the practical point is most times different! Special in SEA and TH.

Edited August 17, 2013 by ALFREDO

[tom21]

they may have told him how much child support he has to pay

[nontabury]

Not in fact true unless Thailand is a signatory to the convention. In Thailand both party have an equal right to custody unless the court decides otherwise. The mother has no more rights than he has.

Exactly - you require both parents approval (until the age of 20) to get a Thai passport. You also have to have the approval of both parents to take the kid out of Thailand, without that it is KIDNAPPING - a crime. It does NOT require Thailand to be a signatory, it is an international convention that Australia has signed and as such Australia is bound. The only way Australian courts would not implement that is if it was shown (proof) that the child was in danger by returning to Thailand.

A friend of mine has joint custody of his child with the Thai mother, the child liveing with him, but during school holidays the child stayed with the mother. He was worried that during one of these holidays she would obtain a passport for the child And take it out of the country. So what did he do, he contacted two different passport offices, both of whom assured him that it would be impossible for her to be issued with a passport for the child without his consent. What happened, yes your right, she did infact obtain the passport and then tried to leave the country, only to be stopped, when my friend got wind of what was afoot and appeared at the airpost as she was about to board.

[ALFREDO]

I would have hated to have gone through what you did, I walked out of Thailand in December 2012 with my 11 month old with only his passport and birth certificate. Both the Thai and Australian embassies told me it was legal for me to do so

Regarding my post before, I must commit, I had my sons birth certificate with me as backup at my lone trips with my son(s).

But nobody asked me for it.

[ALFREDO]

One of the primary rules to observe when in Thailand. NEVER lose your temper. Not only is it counter productive but you'll be considered a fool.

When water cooks the steam has to go somewhere! I not care than what others think ! Considered a fool? Who cares!?

You see what that guideline makes the Thais, completely unpredictable time bombs!

Who often cannot stop their anger until somebody is dead!

So better some hot water spilling!

Edited August 17, 2013 by ALFREDO

[hlfourie]

A child born overseas to an Australian national and registered with the Australian embassy is automatically an Australian citizen, he should have stayed cool, taken the daughter on a holiday to Grandma in oz and stayed there, chances would have been slightly better and the payoff,more affordable......anyway..

The child maybe an Australian citizen but the person named on the birth certificate as the father is not legally recognised in Thailand as such until you have made application through the courts and a judge deems you to be the lawful father. Those that have family visa's will know this process takes at least 3 months. If the guy hasn't been through this procedure then he is no more the father than Bill Smith of Kooweerup. The Embassy wouldn't touch him with a barge pole if he doesn't have this court document.

You obviously have no idea what you'r talking about because I have two daughters in Thailand and my name is on the birth certificate...Legally recognized, I never went through the 3 month process that u mention. My wife would need to go through a 3 month process if not longer to change the fact that I'm not the father as stated on the birth certificate. What is the point of having your name there then, somebody has bs you somewhere down the line. Oh and by the way, have the family visa too..

[GrantSmith]

And thank god the BiB got to him before he further delved into depression and took a long walk off a short balcony...

[Satcommlee]

The guy may have been at his Witt's end, he must love his kid and he choose to take out his frustrations on the Embassy. The Embassy should have been more "thick skinned"! I can't understand why they got him arrested, the bloke was clearly in distress.. It's not like he actually posed a threat to embassy security, these embassies are geared up to prevent attacks from the likes of Al Qaeda.. not distraught Australian Nationals.

I can't condone his actions but I don't think the embassy should have taken such drastic action, are they so stupid to believe the bloke actually posed a threat??

Probably like most embassies if there is not a fee involved, they don't want to know... All he needed was a bit of counselling probably.

-1 to the Ozzie Embassy!

[chooka]

A child born overseas to an Australian national and registered with the Australian embassy is automatically an Australian citizen, he should have stayed cool, taken the daughter on a holiday to Grandma in oz and stayed there, chances would have been slightly better and the payoff,more affordable......anyway..

The child maybe an Australian citizen but the person named on the birth certificate as the father is not legally recognised in Thailand as such until you have made application through the courts and a judge deems you to be the lawful father. Those that have family visa's will know this process takes at least 3 months. If the guy hasn't been through this procedure then he is no more the father than Bill Smith of Kooweerup. The Embassy wouldn't touch him with a barge pole if he doesn't have this court document.

You obviously have no idea what you'r talking about because I have two daughters in Thailand and my name is on the birth certificate...Legally recognized, I never went through the 3 month process that u mention. My wife would need to go through a 3 month process if not longer to change the fact that I'm not the father as stated on the birth certificate. What is the point of having your name there then, somebody has bs you somewhere down the line. Oh and by the way, have the family visa too..

I actually do know what I am talking about because I had to go through it to be legally recognised as my sons father here in Thailand and yes I am on the birth certificate also but the birth certificate means very little in Thailand when a farang father is concerned. The mother has to personally state to the court that I am the father Try getting a one year extention for child without a court document stating that you are the legal father.

Apology accepted and no offence taken.

[simple1]

A child born overseas to an Australian national and registered with the Australian embassy is automatically an Australian citizen, he should have stayed cool, taken the daughter on a holiday to Grandma in oz and stayed there, chances would have been slightly better and the payoff,more affordable......anyway..

The child maybe an Australian citizen but the person named on the birth certificate as the father is not legally recognised in Thailand as such until you have made application through the courts and a judge deems you to be the lawful father. Those that have family visa's will know this process takes at least 3 months. If the guy hasn't been through this procedure then he is no more the father than Bill Smith of Kooweerup. The Embassy wouldn't touch him with a barge pole if he doesn't have this court document.

You obviously have no idea what you'r talking about because I have two daughters in Thailand and my name is on the birth certificate...Legally recognized, I never went through the 3 month process that u mention. My wife would need to go through a 3 month process if not longer to change the fact that I'm not the father as stated on the birth certificate. What is the point of having your name there then, somebody has bs you somewhere down the line. Oh and by the way, have the family visa too..

Think again in the context of the OP. The Australian father, if the wife had refused to signoff a Thai passport application, would need to obtain Court recognition of sole custody for a Thai passport to be issued so the child can depart Thailand. In addition, if the father had not obtained an Australian passport for the child, would need to have signed permission from the ex wife for a visa to be issued for the child to enter Australia on a Thai passport. If the guy was also trying to obtain an Australian passport the application must be signed by both parents named on the birth certificate. If consent is not provided by one of the parents their is a process to apply that is outlined at: https://www.passports.gov.au/Web/Newppt/Consent.aspx

[ikbenhet]

He should have known that very strong reasons for taking custody away from the birth mother are needed in most countries and Thailand is no different. Also it is not the Embassy that can arrange for that anyway. It is the Thai courts.

I can see nothing in this report that states the daughter was born to a Thai mother, nor do I see any reference that the mother and daughter are actually in Thailand.

From another news source.......

He claimed that his former wife beat the child regularly before they were separated.

But police investigations found that Mr Moore's ex-wife provides good care to their child.

Mr Moore told police he used to be a soldier in Australia but had suffered a leg injury and left the military. He travelled to Thailand in 2010 and met his former wife.

Unless he met a farang wife in Thailand I would only assume that his ex is Thai.

Thailand...the last refuge of the scoundrel...nutjob...criminal...loser...coward?

what is that saying again?

something like it takes a thief to catch one?

[laislica]

What a Clown!!

Makes me almost ashamed to be Australian when creatures such as this make idiots of themselves in Thailand. However, it must be said that he "looks" like a good upstanding, clean-cut example of a young Aussie and our Embassy should fall over backwards to race to his assistance and staff at the Embassy should be more than willing to take on-board whatever foul utterances he wishes to make. Yeh, and "Pigs can fly!"

Pack him up, send him back where he came from and toss him in jail to learn a lesson in good manners.

Ah, the hang em high brigade leader?

Thanks for your insight - JOBSWORTH.

Compassion is the understanding or empathy for the suffering of others.

Compassion is often regarded as having an emotional aspect to it, though when based on cerebral notions such as fairness, justice and interdependence, it may be considered rational in nature and its application understood as a activity based on sound judgment. There is also an aspect of compassion which regards a quantitative dimension, such that individual's compassion is often given a property of "depth," "vigour," or "passion." The etymology of "compassion" is Latin, meaning "co-suffering." More involved than simple empathy, compassion commonly gives rise to an active desire to alleviate another's suffering. It is often, though not inevitably, the key component in what manifests in the social context as altruism. In ethical terms, the various expressions down the ages of the so-called Golden Rule often embodies by implication the principle of compassion: Do to others what you would have them do to you.

I don't know what this chap said that constitutes making a threat. What I do know is when one walks into any embassy/consulate, it is wise to be on one's best behavior. Whether one likes it or not, embassy staff have a fair amount of power in how they respond to requests. I suggest when going any country's embassy, one should dress nicely, speak calmly and make your request politely. If you don't get a satisfactory response after politely, yet firmly pressing the matter, then take it up with a higher authority in the embassy pecking order.

I do so agree with you, getting angry seldom helps.

I think the real clue here is that counter staff at embassies and consulates are often locals rather than Nationals of the unit concerned.

They have a job to do, rules to follow and don´t necessarily understand the National(s) customs and practice.

What might be helpful, in a situation like this is that there is a way for counter staff to escalate to a "national" who can take the person into an interview room, give him a cuppa and listen, listen, listen. They help if possible or at least refer them to someone else who can genuinely help - even if that means spending cash, but most of all at least appear to be a last resort lifeline and shoulder to cry on.

We spent many weeks jumping through hoops to get my Thai wife a visa to come to Spain with me.

Then many more hoops to get her registered as a resident in Spain. It involved Embassies/consulates x 2 in Thailand, plus the Thai Min of Foreign Affairs. Then Spanish Local Foreign Office, the one in Madrid and the Brit Consul in Malaga.

We would like to visit my new Grandson in the UK and guess what? More hoops. Visa application with fee´s, a trip to Madrid to give biometric data for a multiple entry 6 mth visa Oh, and this has to be repeated for every proposed visit!

(How to spell <deleted>?)

My friends and rellies cannot understand how we have managed to remain calm throughout these processes - ongoing since February this year!

They have all said that they would have lost the plot at some point so I can really empathize with this poor chap.

I hope he is able to apologize for his irrational behaviour and get back on track.

Then I hope thay will forgive him and offer at least a shoulder to cry on.....

This is a snip from the Brit Border Control website:-

This page explains what we expect from our customers in their dealings with us.

We will do our best to provide you with the services you need, when you want them. In return, we ask that you:

• have all necessary documents available for us to inspect when you pass through border control points;
• use the correct and most up-to-date forms, which you can find (with the relevant guidance notes) in our Apply online section - handwritten application forms should be completed clearly, in black ink and in English (or in Welsh, if you are living in Wales);
• make your application in good time, enclosing the full and correct fee and any evidence we need;
• do not contact us to ask about the progress of your application unless we have failed to meet our published service standards;
• send all further correspondence to the relevant visa application centre or named caseworker in the first instance before contacting another official;
• tell us if you have special needs;
• tell us if you need an interpreter to use our services;
• give us all the information we ask for and tell us about any relevant changes in circumstances (such as a change of address) as soon as possible;
• treat our staff politely and with respect;
• provide complete and accurate information and not deliberately mislead us in any way; and
• keep to all relevant laws.

When you contact or communicate with us (face to face, by phone, by letter or online), our staff will be polite to you and will expect the same from you. We will not tolerate:

• abusive, intimidating or threatening behaviour;
• swearing and offensive language;
• conduct amounting to harassment based on a person's actual or perceived gender, age, gender reassignment, race, religion or belief, sexual orientation or disability;
• shouting;
• insults about our procedures, our staff or other people; or
• attempts to use pressure or bribery to get information.

Our contact centre staff may end a phone conversation if the caller uses inappropriate language or aggressive behaviour. We will ask the caller to stop that behaviour and, if it continues, we will end the call.

[dawing]

A lesson in good manners in Oz?

[HerbalEd]

he does not look like a PhD...

I know a lot of PhDs and not all are the suit & tie type. I have one friend who's a raving genius PhD, and has dread locks and dresses like a bum. Geniuses are often very eccentric and not the suit and tie type.

[HerbalEd]

The guy was obviously very frustrated, but threatening people ... esp. an embassy ... is sure as hell not helping his custody battle.

[mickjn]

He thratened the Australian staff off the Australian Essmassy in Thailand.The people who have helped me on several occassions.I went with a friend when he renewed recentley a passport,the photos werent the right size.He had to to down to road to get the right ones.The girl said to me,to far for you Sir,you wait here for your friend would you like a coffee.I sat there and watched,very proffesional people.Pack your bag son,go home,mark the immigration papers never to return,fight your battle from Australia

[catweazle]

Looking at "Travis", and reading that he verbally abused the people he asked to help him to an extend that made officials sending police after him, even a blind, deaf and comatose person should see that his daughter is probably off a thousand times better staying with her mom.

In addition I am quite certain that his ex-wife had good reasons for leaving him. My gut feeling tells me things I can't discuss here. Just hope for the girl and her mother that "Tantrum Travis" will be send to Australia with a red stamp in his passport to never return.

No sympathy for him from my side at all.

Edited August 18, 2013 by catweazle

[F4UCorsair]

Just another bogan!!!

[chooka]

Just another bogan!!!

I don't know about that. Have you had a look at his facebook page and that of his exwife/mother of his child? Nothing really bogan like on his fairly normal really, couple of religious pics, cats and dogs. The ex wife's page tho shows her holding and displaying firearms. Female version of Chopper Read.