Support sought for bill to curb foreign land grabbers throughout Thailand

[mrtoad]

And who is to say what is agricultural land. Its just a matter of zoning. My mate Denzil Penbirthy took a 30 year lease on 5 rai in Isaan to build a house for his Thai wife and kids to grow up on. Their neighbors grow some rice, and one neighbor has a few coconut palms and a pond they use to grow pla nin. This might make his land technically "agricultural" in an overall zoning map but he didn't think this nonsense would happen and they could get turfed out on their ear.

Makes sense to read yesterday that there is concern about the number of farang beggars. The authorities seem to be expecting an explosion in their numbers. Now we know why.

Surpised to hear that Denzil has moved from Kernow to Issan, I wonder how long he was waiting for a train at Camborne?

[jaidam]

So long as Thai citizens rights are reciprocated in the western world there will not be a problem, as ridiculous articles like this would never appear in the first place.

The most worrying piece of the article is the threat against foreigners that have leased land in Thailand. So, can't buy OK, can't lease either?? Thailand under the Shin dynasty is closing its doors.

My wife is Thai and owns 3 properties in Australia, one unit and 2 blocks and houses. Perfectly legal and anyone can buy land as long as they promise not to tow it away from Australia.

Sorry my above post was ambiguous. I meant to say that since Thai citizens are free to buy and own land and businesses under their own names in foreign countries, and many do, including members of the current govt that laws should be reciprocated. I find the idea of these people buying land in the UK for ex. fine. It benefits the economy in many ways. That is, so long as they extend the same rights to farangs from for ex. the UK to do the same in Thailand. No hypocrisy that way.

The present farce sees PTP bigwigs owning London mansions/land for ex. yet have the nerve to attack farangs that have leased/used nominee structures to safely acquire land here for whatever use. Even more hypocritical is that the CEO of Thailand actively encouraged middle east investors to lease/buy Issan land for agricultural purposes and now wants to crack down on them for having done so. Its a nonsense.

I had 2 retail outlets both under a signed 5 year lease contract. I was forced out of one at gunpoint after not agreeing to be suddenly extorted for a large sum of money by the landlady, the other outlet had the contract terms changed without my agreement midway through the 5 years and I chose to walk away from that also. I have fared better with the ownership through 49/51 which has been fine for well over a decade and refuse to enter a rental agreement again in Thailand. If its impossible to continue using the 49/51 structure or in wifes name because she married a farang we have no choice but to live in another country. Very unfortunate.

[WhingeingMoaners]

This is great news. It is about time to rid Thailand of these opportunistic, disrespectful Farangs.

[lazygourmet]

Everyone should know the biggest landowners in Thailand,are Politicians,influential people,Temples,

So best pass a law so they have no competition,the average foreigner would only like enough land

he could legally own to build a house on, and feel he has a little bit of security,

Thais can go to Europe,U.S.A. and lots of other countries and buy as much land as they want, in their

name,if they have the money.but don't want to let any of it here be bought by outsiders, it not like we

could take it with us,and if it ever got out of hand,they could just make another law,and Nationalize

any Farang owned land.

Regards Worgeordie

Biggest landowners are Crown Property Bureau and Temples

[thomash]

More countries need to do what Taiwan does, it is a reciprocation policy for land ownership so if someone from Taiwan can own land in say the US then Americans can own land in Taiwan.So Thai's cannot own land in Taiwan, if more countries did this maybe then Thailand would change its attitude andlaws about foreign land ownership!

[stevehaigh]

Quote "or by putting the land in the name of a Thai spouse."

Does this mean Thai spouses of foreigners will no longer be allowed to own land

This maybe a lucky break for some of us

that used to be the case about 20 years ago didn't it? Thais married to foreigners automatically became second class citizens.

[ginjag]

Apart from who can buy what and where, My point is that there ARE some greedy foreigners that cannot stop and be content here. I can sympathize a little with the concern about the LAND GRABBERS. I say stop their antics because it;s people like them that are irritating Thai people.

For starters Thai start to put the foot down for ALL, and make things more bad for us.

With any chance at all the last thing we need is Foreign land grabbers, I have always said it would not hurt to have a 40x40 m. plot Maximum, that's all you need for a decent house, nothing more and restricted to 1 only. Thai is not giving much away, it stops the stealing element, and cuts out a % of the homeless who got thrown out.

I cannot stand greedy people who are never content with ENOUGH, whether they are Thai or foreigner. The world is a bit unfair on it's land ownership laws, here yes they are stingy, condo's are on land, (shared) ???

Stop the greedy, let the long stay/live here type have that 40x40 meters.

Edited August 20, 2013 by ginjag

[Misterwhisper]

The most worrying piece of the article is the threat against foreigners that have leased land in Thailand. So, can't buy OK, can't lease either?? Thailand under the Shin dynasty is closing its doors.

Please reread OP. Leasing of agricultural land.

Not to be an apologist, but there are no SEA countries where foreigners can legally own land.

Speaking so emphatically yet completely incorrect. Did you search for this or just spout off at the mouth, er, fingers?

Malaysia my 2nd home allows land purchase by foreigners.

http://www.mm2h.gov.my/incentive1.php

Also in Singapore under the Residential Property Act, a foreigner can own land.

And the Philippines, too. And mind you, none of these countries - not even tiny Singapore - are whining about bad bad foreign "land grabbers". Last time I looked those countries didn't even become gradually smaller as a result of all those foreigners clandestinely shipping their purchased land back to their home countries.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Misterwhisper

[thaimlord]

I know a lot of thais who own lands and properties in different countries .... without any issues. Maybe its time for our governments to stop that practice and impose the same laws as we have here. I dont think any foreigners would leave the country with the land on the back anyway.

What an utter crock of crap. Who among us knows "lots of Thais who own land and properties in different countries"? What drivel.

I know a lot of Thais, and I don't know ANY who own lands and properties in different countries, however I'm sure there are more than a few who DO own SOME property in another country. But the fact of the matter is that most countries discourage foreign ownership of their dirt in one way or another. I don't necessarily agree with that, but it's the way it is in countries that I'm aware of.

Thailand is fantastic in that it allows us to remain in its country without having to jump through too many hoops. I wish good luck to the average Thai person who would like to stay in my country for any length of time, owning property or otherwise. It just is not going to happen.

Please give me some examples of countries where ordinary Thais can own lots of properties "without any issues" as you've stated?

TL

[kirk0233]

So afraid of losing their land and their Thainess. If persons and ideas from other cultures were accepted as useful by those in power the national mess that is Thai politics and Thai governance would be seen as disgraceful by the Thais themselves. Thus, it is necessary to vilify the foreigner to prevent any possible contamination of Thainess by the injection of new ideas. I cannot think of anything Thainess has invented or contributed to the world society that is worthy of mention. Thought is hierarchical in Thai society and there is no need to think at the top and less at the bottom since direction always comes from the top down.

[chooka]

Is this Mr Siracha the same politician who was preaching to Thai women that they should land themselves a Farang husband because they will get all the benefits of the Farang's country (Welfare etc) and the Farangs can buy homes and land for them in Thailand?

[chooka]

I know a lot of thais who own lands and properties in different countries .... without any issues. Maybe its time for our governments to stop that practice and impose the same laws as we have here. I dont think any foreigners would leave the country with the land on the back anyway.

What an utter crock of crap. Who among us knows "lots of Thais who own land and properties in different countries"? What drivel.

I know a lot of Thais, and I don't know ANY who own lands and properties in different countries, however I'm sure there are more than a few who DO own SOME property in another country. But the fact of the matter is that most countries discourage foreign ownership of their dirt in one way or another. I don't necessarily agree with that, but it's the way it is in countries that I'm aware of.

Thailand is fantastic in that it allows us to remain in its country without having to jump through too many hoops. I wish good luck to the average Thai person who would like to stay in my country for any length of time, owning property or otherwise. It just is not going to happen.

Please give me some examples of countries where ordinary Thais can own lots of properties "without any issues" as you've stated?

TL

Oh pick me pick me I do, I know a thai who owns land and property abroad, actually I know 3.

Edited August 20, 2013 by chooka

[gemini81]

More countries need to do what Taiwan does, it is a reciprocation policy for land ownership so if someone from Taiwan can own land in say the US then Americans can own land in Taiwan.So Thai's cannot own land in Taiwan, if more countries did this maybe then Thailand would change its attitude andlaws about foreign land ownership!

Makes more sense than anything the locals would think of.

[jbrain]

Maybe I am the only one but I agree with the fact that foreigners are not allowed to own land in Thailand.

For the same reason I do not agree with German nationals who own land in Switserland, English nationals who own land in New Zealand, French nationals who own land in Denmark or Swedish nationals who own land in Malaysia - I can continue for one hour but I think you go the point.

Land belongs to the people who legally live there and have a passport and it does NOT belong to people who are just have money to buy it!

Maybe people also should not be allowed any more to travel behind their country borders.

Are you part of this xenophobe government ?

[julemanden]

The most worrying piece of the article is the threat against foreigners that have leased land in Thailand. So, can't buy OK, can't lease either?? Thailand under the Shin dynasty is closing its doors.

Please reread OP. Leasing of agricultural land.

Not to be an apologist, but there are no SEA countries where foreigners can legally own land.

Speaking so emphatically yet completely incorrect. Did you search for this or just spout off at the mouth, er, fingers?

Malaysia my 2nd home allows land purchase by foreigners.

http://www.mm2h.gov.my/incentive1.php

Also in Singapore under the Residential Property Act, a foreigner can own land.

Yes, but have you seen how much you have to spend fort allowing you to own a house and land + get a 10 year visa in Malaysia... 9.7 Mil BTH...and still you need quit a sum of money in your bank account also...!

[BlackJack]

maybe the worry is about the emerging Chinese mega rich buying up all the land

it happened 30 years ago in Phuket

[impulse]

I have no opinion on Thai foreign land ownership laws, but I can't help but wonder how they would be different if there were real estate taxes like "back home"

[Chicken George]

The 51/49% ownership company thing was never meant to be a way to buy a house full stop. Dont do it... well do it if you want as its not really legal but maybe safer than putting in a wifes name. Damed if you do and damed if you dont... Barefoot and pregnant is the only way forward!!

[thaimlord]

I know a lot of thais who own lands and properties in different countries .... without any issues. Maybe its time for our governments to stop that practice and impose the same laws as we have here. I dont think any foreigners would leave the country with the land on the back anyway.

What an utter crock of crap. Who among us knows "lots of Thais who own land and properties in different countries"? What drivel.

I know a lot of Thais, and I don't know ANY who own lands and properties in different countries, however I'm sure there are more than a few who DO own SOME property in another country. But the fact of the matter is that most countries discourage foreign ownership of their dirt in one way or another. I don't necessarily agree with that, but it's the way it is in countries that I'm aware of.

Thailand is fantastic in that it allows us to remain in its country without having to jump through too many hoops. I wish good luck to the average Thai person who would like to stay in my country for any length of time, owning property or otherwise. It just is not going to happen.

Please give me some examples of countries where ordinary Thais can own lots of properties "without any issues" as you've stated?

TL

Oh pick me pick me I do, I know a thai who owns land and property abroad, actually I know 3.

Thanks. Actually the guy said "lots of Thais" and "without any issues", not, a Thai.

And as I said, I'm sure there are indeed some. Please read properly before commenting negatively.

And you didn't actually give an example anyway; you simply stated you know of 3. That doesn't tell or prove to anyone anything. Please let me know where their property is, and also understand that I don't mean property in some dumb location where no-one else wants to live, but somewhere in a respectable western country, that would provide a contrasting argument to that being posted.

TL

[chrisrazz]

Please read the headline containing the words 'support sought'. As the people who have profited from the nominee loophole are in fact Thai lawyers, among whose fraternity, many are politicians, one would expect little support, either political or legal, from a group who are in effect a closed shop. Xenophobia is prevelant in all countries, particularly when a soft target scapegoat is sought to deflect attention from the real issues.

I watched an interview conducted in English with the former Asean General Secretary, Surin Pitsuwan. Khun Pitsuwan, a Thai, indicated that Thailand needs to embrace radical change in order to fully realise the opportunity Asean offers. One issue he raised was the fact that Thailand, having never been colonised, and due to the closed history of Thailand, is way behind the Asean partners regarding business practice, open competition, education and language integration. He didn't add law enforcement and corruption as being the major obstacle to effective regional integration, though in the ad break, there was an anti curruption message. He talked about how the South Thais, many of whom speak Malay should become the focal point of potential as Bahasa is the most common language within the Asean group. I felt very optimistic for Thailand having witnessed this interview, though, this thread and pretty much all threads on TV i find deeply depressing. On the one hand, there are decent honest people throughout Thai society, yet it appears that the old adage 'scum always rises to the top' applies to the past and particularly the present. If the future of this country is left in the hands of the crooks and gangsters, whatever the colour shirt, it is bleak future, for sure.

Edited August 20, 2013 by chrisrazz

[attento]

Two thoughts:

If , as the article suggests, it is illegal for foreigners to own land, that implies there is existing legislation. Doesn't "illegal" mean, against the Law? What is the need for another Law?

However, If there is need for a new Law, that would imply it is not illegal currently.

When does land ownership become land grabbing ? In most cases, a sale occurs between a willing seller and a willing buyer? Will the Thai national who makes an "illegal" sale to a foreigner, himself become subject to penalties under the proposed new Law ?

[ginjag]

And who is to say what is agricultural land. Its just a matter of zoning. My mate Denzil Penbirthy took a 30 year lease on 5 rai in Isaan to build a house for his Thai wife and kids to grow up on. Their neighbors grow some rice, and one neighbor has a few coconut palms and a pond they use to grow pla nin. This might make his land technically "agricultural" in an overall zoning map but he didn't think this nonsense would happen and they could get turfed out on their ear.

Makes sense to read yesterday that there is concern about the number of farang beggars. The authorities seem to be expecting an explosion in their numbers. Now we know why.

Surpised to hear that Denzil has moved from Kernow to Issan, I wonder how long he was waiting for a train at Camborne?

Remember on Des O'conner show, was it Jethro ?? joke about -this train don't stop at Taunton" ha Ha. sorry off topic.

Give the option either to give the mini plot back to the Thai partner after you die, or back to the state, or whatever even a clause to say can only sell to a Thai, so while we are alive and spending all our cash with you Thailand give a bit back in return let us live without fear of being chucked out.

[attento]

I know a lot of thais who own lands and properties in different countries .... without any issues. Maybe its time for our governments to stop that practice and impose the same laws as we have here. I dont think any foreigners would leave the country with the land on the back anyway.

What an utter crock of crap. Who among us knows "lots of Thais who own land and properties in different countries"? What drivel.

I know a lot of Thais, and I don't know ANY who own lands and properties in different countries, however I'm sure there are more than a few who DO own SOME property in another country. But the fact of the matter is that most countries discourage foreign ownership of their dirt in one way or another. I don't necessarily agree with that, but it's the way it is in countries that I'm aware of.

Thailand is fantastic in that it allows us to remain in its country without having to jump through too many hoops. I wish good luck to the average Thai person who would like to stay in my country for any length of time, owning property or otherwise. It just is not going to happen.

Please give me some examples of countries where ordinary Thais can own lots of properties "without any issues" as you've stated?

TL

Oh pick me pick me I do, I know a thai who owns land and property abroad, actually I know 3.

Thanks. Actually the guy said "lots of Thais" and "without any issues", not, a Thai.

And as I said, I'm sure there are indeed some. Please read properly before commenting negatively.

And you didn't actually give an example anyway; you simply stated you know of 3. That doesn't tell or prove to anyone anything. Please let me know where their property is, and also understand that I don't mean property in some dumb location where no-one else wants to live, but somewhere in a respectable western country, that would provide a contrasting argument to that being posted.

TL

There are many examples of Thais owning property in the UK.

[gemini81]

Two thoughts:

If , as the article suggests, it is illegal for foreigners to own land, that implies there is existing legislation. Doesn't "illegal" mean, against the Law? What is the need for another Law?

However, If there is need for a new Law, that would imply it is not illegal currently.

When does land ownership becomeNow land grabbing ? In most cases, a sale occurs between a willing seller and a willing buyer? Will the Thai national who makes an "illegal" sale to a foreigner, himself become subject to penalties under the proposed new Law ?

Now you're thinking, they don't like that. That's why they wanna chase us out.

[harryfrompattaya]

Funny people in the year of 2013 they havent noticed that the Chineese own the gold buissness, the rice mills, the big shopping malls, hotels and just about all the land in the entire country, all big companies i could go on. Oh i forgot the are naturalized they are dual citizen. Its not the Thais screaming about this, its the Chineese scared that the farangs should manage to buy a small plot of land they have set their eyes on. I might start to become colour blind after all this years in the heat, but buggerf me if i dont see the red chineese coulors over just about every shop of a certain size, be it motorcycle or car dealers, Big C, Seven 11 and so on. My poor mother in law every year manages to sell to much of her harvest of rice to the local Chineese dealer for about 11 to 14 bth for so in mai or june sending me to town to bye rice back from the Chineese shop at about 30 bth. Yes i must definitly be coulor blind, or i might have come down with some other tropical sickness.

Maybe by foreigners they mean new Chinese coming to Thailand

[Arjay]

So long as Thai citizens rights are reciprocated in the western world there will not be a problem, as ridiculous articles like this would never appear in the first place.

The most worrying piece of the article is the threat against foreigners that have leased land in Thailand. So, can't buy OK, can't lease either?? Thailand under the Shin dynasty is closing its doors.

Whenever the flow of power and loot slows, he pulls out the threat of invasion... like a burglar pulling out his pistol. This he waves in front of the public... inspiring fear and loathing. The good man sees his mother raped before his eyes by a horde of foreigners. The bad man merely loathes the foreigner; he cannot abide the idea of the outsider getting away with something. Soon, they are all approving plans to transfer more of the nation's wealth and treasure to those that supply them...

[PoodMaiDai]

xenophobia

xen·o·pho·bi·a

noun

an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange.

Edited August 20, 2013 by PoodMaiDai

[harryfrompattaya]

"Mr Siracha became the centre of a heated debate in March last year when he claimed that foreigners owned 30 per cent of all the land in Thailand."

As with all other official statements, there is zero evidence to back up the claim. Perhaps the government should aks Mr. Siracha to provide some form of proof before wasting everyones time on it?

If asked, Mr. Siracha will of course claim that he cannot prove it, as the foreigners are hiding behind Thais in 49/51 partnerships, or through their wives etc. To counter that, I suggest Mr. Siracha simply include all land owned by companies where there are foreign partners, and all land owned by Thais married to foreigners, then to be on the safe side we can simply assume it is all controlled by foreigners.

It will not be anywhere near 30%, not even 3%, but perhaps somewhere around 0.3%.

Once we have the facts on the table, and it becomes clear to everyone, including the government, that Mr. Siracha is an idiot whose "study" was wrong by a factor of around 100, perhaps Ms. Yingluck can do what she should have done long ago, and fire this moron, or even better put him in jail for providing the government with information he knows to be false!

Cousin Le Roy and I feel he is right it is about 30 per cent We travel in those circle.

[bangkokstick]

Are we allowed to start a condo are better than houses thread ?

:-)

[tonneke breda]

I think the Thais completely forget the meaning of OMBUDSMAN.......

How can he puts a law forward to the government???