What's Wrong with Renting?

[mesquite]

I'm seeing a few threads on owning houses, land, and condos here in Chiang Mai. There seem to be enormous problems, problems with condo associations, land purchase, 30 year leases, etc.

What is the advantage of owning a condo or house (or buying your wife a house) vs renting?

Rents are cheap here and if you get a bad neighbor, you can move. It appears to be a renter's market.

Why do so many people feel the need to own?

[CMSteve]

Its def a renter's market. Unless you simply have to "put down roots" for the family, I don't think there is any real benefit.

[proovms]

In England, and possibly other places, people seem to think that renting is a waste of money because you never own the house, somehow missing the fact that you are actually living in the place while you are renting it, and you can move at any time. Many people see having a mortgage as 'making it' in life, along with marrying someone and having a career. From a young age I was taught that renting was bad in a way, but I have since realised that is better. I have a feeling that some people prefer to buy because of what their parents said.

I could be that you can then rent it out, eventually making profit, or that you really love being able to do some DIY.

[heybruce]

When you own you have the potential to make a profit or loss, and you have a financial commitment to Thailand. If you rent you have none of these. I prefer renting.

[IsaanUSA]

If you rent and need to return home for 6+ months, what do you do with all your stuff while you are not there?

If you rent, are you able to easily upgrade appliances such as refrigerator, clothes washer, TV, etc. ?

I just ask because I am curious. It seems to me, if you owned, you would always have a place to keep your stuff. You could customize your place any way you would like. With renting it seems like you are locked into stuff that you may not want or need. I have no experience in renting a place. Does the owner let you make changes if you sign a long lease?

[worgeordie]

Renting is the best way to go especially if you are a single person, and don't expect to

end your days in Thailand.

It also gives you freedom to move around,if you buy a house(in someones name) and

there is any empty plots around, one day you could get a surprise,as there does not

seem to be any regulations in place as to what could be built next to you,and I don't

mean just another house.

owning a house you get the benefits of value increases (in the land,more than the house),

when my wife bought our land it was 2,500 bht square wah, next door ,land just sold for 28K

downside of owning a house is maintenance.

regards Worgeordie

[wolf5370]

There is also the problem with shop houses, people that live over their bars/cafes etc. Renting is fine, but a bad landlord can wipe out a business that has been built through hard work (look at the Olde Bell for an example). Buying would help that as you are not at their (or descendants should they die) whim. Having a plot to call your own and to leave for the kids is nice too - making the house the way you want it, decoration, safer wiring! ray sizes and layout (people buy land to build their own homes on). There are many reasons I guess.

[mesquite]

The idea of customizing a house or condo that you own is one thing that would be appealing to me. "Pride of ownership" was a big deal in the US when I owned. I have rented for 10 years in CM and have no regrets, though every Thai person I know tells me how sorry they feel for me because I could have bought a house and still could and they can help me find one !! (commissions).

Edited August 23, 2013 by mesquite

[hellodolly]

It is a preference. When I was raising a family it was important to me to own my own home, As years passed and a divorce I still owned my own home.

When I moved to Thailand I rented and will continue to rent I am retired on pensions have savings. I do not need to worry about making money for my old age I am already there. I refuse to buy anything I can not walk away from. I am a free man. Except for my wife. If I decide to move to some other local not a problem. I bought my own TV and refrigerator and will just give them away.

Owning does not give me a feeling of security it gives me a feeling of being owned. I don't know what will happen in the future but I will be able to deal with it. When the Wife's mother dies there is the possibility that I may move on to some where else. The wife likes Bali.

[BB1955]

I rented the first two years, nice house nice moo baan and a good landlord. My problem was after a while he wanted us to buy the house at a price which was way over the acual value. The second year he listed the house and we had a few lookers come in . That turned me off and we felt we could be homeless at anytime . Sure there are many other places to rent but up rooting every few years is a pain in the butt . I opted to buy a piece of land build a house wife and I have been together for ten years . We like it here so thats what we did . Now I went in with open eyes Im completely aware what I have invested I can not own .. I went with the rule to live by here dont not invest what you are not willing to walk away from .... As for security I know that no matter what the housing market and rental market does I will have a house to live in based on my income which is limited by pension. I can plant what ever I want paint what ever I want .

As for a single person here renting is the only way to go . Had I been single buying anything other than a car and motorbike would have been out of the question ... So I think its more what the person wants than the issues of the good the bad the ugly ....

[WinnieTheKhwai]

downside of owning a house is maintenance.

No, the *advantage* of owning a house is maintenance. Because it actually happens.

The idea of customizing a house or condo that you own is one thing that would be appealing to me. "Pride of ownership" was a big deal in the US when I owned.

Well, don't care much about pride; you can't eat or sell the stuff. But to be able to improve and customize a place does really improve your quality of life directly. Some people also do that with a rental house, but that's a lot more iffy.

Edited August 23, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[crusader79]

I bought but regret it. There are too many things that can go wrong in Thailand, within and around your buildiing, in your life, in the country itself. Better to stay mobile.

[masuk]

I'm with the obvious majority here. Rent and you can move. I'd have hated to try to sell the house I was renting, which I left 2 months early because of an ignorant neighbour who felt it was her God-given right to have 3 untrained dogs which barked through the night.

I was back there last weekend mowing the lawns, as it's mine to the end of this month. Horrified to see a large metal dog pen has been constructed, right outside the bedrooms. That's going to put off any prospective renter, unless of course they're the type who can't hear dogs, karaoke, loud TV.

I'm sure glad that I'm out of there.

[surfinglife]

As my dear old granny used to say: "If it flies, floats or f@#%s - rent it". So I own my condo and rent my "wives" and boats...Works for me.

[LivinLOS]

I have been a lifelong renter... I love the freedom and in Thailand I have had a terrible run of luck with poor quality building.. One multi million dollar villa slid off the cliff in Phuket !!

That said.. I have purchased a largish land plot (many rai) and am in the designing stage of a villa.. I like the north, I will have full insulation for neighbours, its just the right distance from town and it will have what I want in it.. Frankly its not possible to find a house to find my desires (cinema, games room, study / office. pool, sauna, hot tub.. Workshops for my bikes and projects, garaging.. Second house for my brother to long stay visit... etc etc) the only way to get what I want is to build it.. If all I wanted was your usual moobaan detached, theres no way in hell I would consider it.

Its value or cost equation v renting is irrelevant.. Its never going to be sold, should I travel this will be my base of operations to return to, to have the dogs and gardens etc.

[morpho]

When I first moved to Chiang Mai 2 years ago, I probably thought that I would own a house by now. But for many reasons, I continue to rent an apartment. As you pointed out, there is a plethora of rental units (both houses and condos) here that are readily available at cheap prices. On the flip side, there are also a lot of nice houses available here at low prices but the exchange rate over the past 2 years has not been favorable for me to make a big financial commitment by purchasing a house (or condo). Security has also been an issue for me since I have been traveling for about 3-4 months each year and I never have to worry about the security of my apartment. If I owned a house, I would only feel comfortable if I had a reliable house sitter who could stay in the house while I was away (also a reason I don't rent a house but instead rent an apartment). Flexibility is also important for me...I only have to give a 30-day notice here if I want to move out and move to a new place here or head to Vietnam, Cambodia or the Philippines to set up shop.

Edited August 23, 2013 by morpho

[oneday]

Maybe this thread should have been a poll.

I rent here in Pattaya for half the cost of what I'd pay is the US. If I moved back to the US I'd buy.

Edited August 23, 2013 by oneday

[JulesMad]

In my view and situation, renting is THE way

Renting buys a lot of freedom and mostly it is no hassles.... Sh*t happens and you just move to a better place!

I will never buy a house in Thailand; I can not take it with me when I die

[Thighlander]

As far as maintenance; never assume just because you are renting, your landlord will fix anything with one phone call. Foreigner cannot own land in Thailand, though. Real estate is how most millionaires in America became millionaires; it wasn't earning wages. That being stated, they didn't buy in Thailand. Avoid being a sheep, like Warren Buffet (who seems to have lost his mind) says: "Buy when there is blood in the street." Use extreme caution when there is optimism. Only buy something you would be willing to live in yourself. If you can't get 1% of purchase price per month, you are probably paying too much, and a few vacancies or major repairs will give you buyer's remorse. I've bought and sold 8 homes over the years. It's been 50 times better than the people I've had to deal with doing part-time education jobs.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2223-Cedley-St_Baltimore_MD_21230_M65033-23167?row=46

Here is what you can get in America for 725,000 THB....waterview. Oh, and a billion dollar project across the street, and a multi-billion dollar Light Rail system 300 feet away.

[ozyjon]

Yes i agree with the putting down roots theory but i am a westerner and to put down roots in another country where i am suppose to invest all my savings for the next 30 years is not a very good investment in my book because who will inherit the property when you die ? Your wife and her family, if she dies before you then the family will move in and kick you out,,, if you have a child the family might kick you out and keep the child in the home,,,, for me i've done it both ways and now anywhere in the world i would never buy, i would only rent the best house in the street and enjoy my life,,, have a good think about the situation financially and good luck.

[manarak]

The main problem with renting is that if you want a nive place, the rent is too expensive.

Small and low standard places are ok to rent (cost about 4 to 5%) , but a nice house costs about 7 to 9%, I calculated that if renting, one pays off the whole current sale price in only 10 to 14 years of time. So if one stays 30 years, that's the same as paying the property, twice, and I don't count compounded interest which would probably pay another round.

Renting is financially ruinous if renting something nice - unless settling for something under your standard.

Also, the landlord will raise the rent when he feels like it.

And what about doing modifications to the property...

Most of the stuff coming with rental property is crap or average. Kitchen appliances... crap. bathrooms... crap. insulation... crap. windows... crap.

If one wants something good, one has to buy or pay a hideous amount of money to achieve the same.

Edited August 23, 2013 by manarak

[Chicken George]

I have rented for 12 years.. worked out well.. but now after realising I want to end my days here with my wife and kids it time to buy.. no kids but you have something to leave the wife at the end then keep on renting... if single then buy a condo.. or rent and you can move around.

[bangkokstick]

555+ all the cheap charlies renters...

Anywhere I have stayed more than 6 months I bought the place and I now have rental money of many condos that I could easily sell with a profit.

Renters I love you !

Also, don't you get bored to leave and move everytime a landlord ask you to leave ? But maybe you have nothing else to do in your life ?

But I'm sorry, I'm too busy and leave a place when I DECIDE, not anybody else...

Edited August 23, 2013 by bangkokstick

[JepSoDii]

As my dear old granny used to say: "If it flies, floats or f@#%s - rent it". So I own my condo and rent my "wives" and boats...Works for me.

Many a well-paid airline pilot say this to almost any dude who will listen: if it flies floats or f&^%s it's cheaper to rent. Of course real estate does none of the above. I own property in the US already, so I'm in the real estate market and able to benefit from valuation gains. But I am not prepares to buy here anytime soon. The rental income from back home should increase close enough to rent increases I will have to pay here in future years, so that's a bit of a guard against inflation. It's good for most people to own real estate as an investment, if it was a wide purchase. But there is too much unknown for me to want to buy anything here, except maybe a cheap studio at most.

[slipperylobster]

1. If you rent and need to return home for 6+ months, what do you do with all your stuff while you are not there?

2. If you rent, are you able to easily upgrade appliances such as refrigerator, clothes washer, TV, etc. ?

1. Leave your situff in your rented house same as you would if you (or the bank/wife) owned it.

2. Yes, you can upgrade whatever you like, Just document your additions and take them with you if you vacate.

Good advice: Pay far in advance and you can negotiate your way out of a deposit and get a better deal. I paid 24,000 baht (one year in advance) and got a 3 bedroom/3 bath older style house on 2 rai. I think I got the best deal in Thailand! Owner is a Thai who lives in Germany. I fix the house as I like it My rent (2000 baht a month is lower than interest on a loan for purchase. lol !!!!!!!!!!!! Cannot own.

[umbanda]

Buying a house only is a good deal if renting the same property will cover the mortgage payments or the bank interest of the money in the bank or any safe investment.....That never will happen with a new construction, only with a old house or foreclosure, because those devalues a lot. Thailand people do not like to buy preo-wned houses.

Typical example in Thailand: a 2.000.000 thb house mortgage will demand a 15.000 thb monthly payment + taxes + maintenance.. You can rent a house or condo in that value for not more than 4.000 thb/month...sometimes furnished. Only in prime locations the rent will be higher than that,

Will take 10 years for a house to appreciate enough to cover the 10.000 thb a month wasted in the mortgage payment or lost in interest, and... if you move and rent it, having a mortgage, you will have to pay the difference to the bank anyway.

Look at this picture..You financed a 2.000.000, you paid 15.000/month for 5 years, but now you have to change town....You will rent it for 5.000 thb to somebody, rent or buy another house in your new town, but paying also 10.000 thb every month for the former house....Look around...and you will see many abandoned houses in nice locations..for years...for sale by the lenders.....Ask yourself why?

Conclusion: Buying a house only makes sense if it is a bargain, or you have a big family and you are sure that NEVER will have to move.

Thai people likes to own a house because most of the times will be shared with many relatives.

If you are married with a Thai woman, and you "own" a big house...sooner or later...you will have a lot of "roommates"....do you like it or not.

Wants to buy anyway?...Buy an apartment in your name......A house?.....Will be your wife's house not yours....

[Balance]

If you are 40-45 and you plan to have a family here, owning makes sense and is quite necessary if you are married to a Thai women as it is expected that you will accumulate assets to ensure her future and that of the children if something happens to you. I hear stories all of the time about Thai men who die and leave nothing but a lot of debt. Generally, life insurance is not something that Thai's purchase. I came to Thailand with no intention of buying a home (buying is used because you cannot own a house and land; life tenancy is the best you can do).

On the financial side owning makes no sense at all. I rent a 3bd,2b in a large Moo Ban with a nice 25 m pool and well maintained roads and grounds for 8500 Bt a month including air con. A tiny lot in the same Moo Ban would be 1 million and another 2 million to build the house. Plus Thai banks limit the term of the mortgage depending on your age and the age of your wife. I rent on two year leases and so far the rent has not gone up. Thais do not like pre-owned houses because of superstition about ghosts, etc. but that does not make them cheaper than building.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Balance

[Thighlander]

A lot of landlords are landlords by circumstance. Now, they are just trying to cover their payments, and they are strapped for cash. Even if you want to stay for several years, the choice may not be yours to make. The house I leant my attorney the money to buy, was owned by a Thai couple, who had been transferred to Lopburi. It was their first house, they had bought brand new. They had paid 1.1, and were renting it to a Brit and his Thai wife and baby for 7000 THB. They were having a lot of septic problems. Turned out, it was just one of those push air-fresheners that had fallen into the toilet, and them being renters, just thought they could flush it through. I think those were the problems that led to the couple deciding to get rid of it to me for 915,000. Most people have no idea of how to fix something like that. To me it's just not rocket science. But if your a landlord, those are the calls you don't want to get; the septic is backed up. The renters even left a syringe in the bathroom window sill, between the screen. Totally trashy people. But, as the law reads: Foreigner cannot own land, period.

[toenail]

It is a fact (except with ??? 10% of the condos one buys) that when you sell a condo, you will not make a profit ...10 years down the road. People who have sold their condos that have been honest with me have admitted to that. A couple owners broke even (not counting the monthly maintenance fee) and others have lost more. The problem in this country is that every one wants something new.... the older condo buildings start to show their "age" since there is no real maintenance made on the exterior or interior.... or after the condo building has been standing around, noisy bars, or other condo towers have been built to bloc the view. In the West, it is a different story, older condos or houses will retain their value, infact, increase. With the condo glut in Pattaya, don't expect any profit what so ever. Next, if you are an older guy...does it make since to buy a place when you may croak within 20 years? Rent out a nice place and party.

[elektrified]

If you are 40-45 and you plan to have a family here, owning makes sense and is quite necessary if you are married to a Thai women as it is expected that you will accumulate assets to ensure her future and that of the children if something happens to you. I hear stories all of the time about Thai men who die and leave nothing but a lot of debt. Generally, life insurance is not something that Thai's purchase. I came to Thailand with no intention of buying a home (buying is used because you cannot own a house and land; life tenancy is the best you can do).

On the financial side owning makes no sense at all. I rent a 3bd,2b in a large Moo Ban with a nice 25 m pool and well maintained roads and grounds for 8500 Bt a month including air con. A tiny lot in the same Moo Ban would be 1 million and another 2 million to build the house. Plus Thai banks limit the term of the mortgage depending on your age and the age of your wife. I rent on two year leases and so far the rent has not gone up. Thais do not like pre-owned houses because of superstition about ghosts, etc. but that does not make them cheaper than building.

Actually Thais purchase lots of life insurance. Premiums are cheap. I once attended (along with a g/f at the time) a meeting/party/award presentation for reps of Allianz and was amazed at the amount of full-time and part-time sellers in C.M. alone. I was impressed with the sales. Lots of Thais are buying.