Negative tactics by Thai Democrat Party not winning it many fans

[gerry1011]

BURNING ISSUE

Negative tactics by Democrat Party not winning it many fans

Samudcha Hoonsara

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- These days, many people are closely watching the steps that Thailand's oldest political party, the Democrats, will take. This is because the party seems to be taking a totally different course from its rival, the ruling Pheu Thai Party.

Although the Cabinet led by Yingluck Shinawatra is seen as vastly inferior to previous cabinets under her brother Thaksin, the Democrat Party has failed to undermine it effectively, despite the obvious weaknesses.

On the other hand, the opposition party is doing all it can by whatever means to overthrow the Yingluck administration. Its efforts have reached the point where many observers simply shake their heads in disapproval at some of the party's actions, which have been deemed as overstepping democratic behaviour.

Former Democrat leader Chuan Leekpai once famously said, back in 1992: "I believe in the parliamentary system."

Today, there are people who mock that remark, saying the party is no longer following that path because of claims that some key party figures are now colluding with various groups such as the yellow-shirt People's Alliance for Democracy in a bid to overthrow the government via extra-parliamentary means.

This fits the red-shirt leaders' repeated claim that the Democrat Party does not play by the rules, such as the time when Abhisit Vejjajiva's cabinet was arranged inside a military barracks and its dependency on the so-called independent state agencies and the Army to oust Thaksin-led governments.

Some of these allegations were even admitted to be true by key figures within the Democrat Party.

While it seems the party has no way of gaining more seats in Parliament than Pheu Thai, the Democrats ought to try to come up with a new strategy.

Deputy party leader Alongkorn Ponlaboot has a theory that the Democrats are like a frog trapped in slowly boiling water. However, reforms he proposed have been rejected by party heavyweights.

The party also lacks a catchy motto that could energise voters like that of the Pheu Thai - "Thaksin thinks, Pheu Thai acts", or "Rethink and re-do" by the now-defunct Thai Rak Thai, Thaksin's initial political entity.

Instead, the Democrats seem trapped in the old game of mud-slinging, daily pedantic verbal retaliation and harsh verbal comments made on social media. Its Blue Sky satellite TV channel, meanwhile, repeatedly attacks Thaksin and the red shirts without offering anything new to convince the non-converted.

Filibusters, including irrational protests during parliamentary deliberation, that drag on overnight have also left people fed up and not wanting to follow the debate. The Democrats also rejected all alternatives offered by opponents including the latest political reform forum, even though they could gain political points from the public if they just listened to what the government has to offer - and pull out when it's obvious that it's not going to work.

Their attitude - being too eager to get what they want - could hurt the party if they don't get what they want, and end up alienating supporters who are not partisan fans. Their actions seem like a nagging child who cries loudly without caring when his or her parents refuse to buy a toy.

The party ought to reform, if possible, before it's too late, and its chances in the next election disappear.

-- The Nation 2013-08-23

I could not add anything more. In my opinion, this article says everything about the state of the democrat party.

There are some very capable and good people within the democrats. It just seems that their obsession about Thaksin alienates their judgement. They do not make politics anymore. They just play dirty games and spread rumors. The behavior they show to the public is really immature. They are irrational. Their strategy is doomed.

There will be a day the Dems will have to come back to the real world.

[Robby nz]

I could not add anything more. In my opinion, this article says everything about the state of the democrat party.

There are some very capable and good people within the democrats. It just seems that their obsession about Thaksin alienates their judgement. They do not make politics anymore. They just play dirty games and spread rumors. The behavior they show to the public is really immature. They are irrational. Their strategy is doomed.

There will be a day the Dems will have to come back to the real world.

Hear we go again from the same poster .

The Dems have an obsession with Thaksin

Who was it that offered to have his head cut off if he didn't get Thaksin back free of all charges by the end of the year?

Now that is an obsession.

[Noistar]

I could not add anything more. In my opinion, this article says everything about the state of the democrat party.

There are some very capable and good people within the democrats. It just seems that their obsession about Thaksin alienates their judgement. They do not make politics anymore. They just play dirty games and spread rumors. The behavior they show to the public is really immature. They are irrational. Their strategy is doomed.

There will be a day the Dems will have to come back to the real world.

Hear we go again from the same poster .

The Dems have an obsession with Thaksin

Who was it that offered to have his head cut off if he didn't get Thaksin back free of all charges by the end of the year?

Now that is an obsession.

I assume that offer remains on the books. Unless he qualified it by saying 'unless KT shafts me first'.

[Noistar]

Will Thailand's voting pattern just be 'Thaksin or not Thaksin'?

In which case any opinion about the Democrats is superfluous.

The anti-Thaksin electorate will use their intelligence to vote strategically. Opinion about the way the Democrats perform, or even what policies they have, must be secondary to what is a national obsession.

Take Thaksin out of the equation and the topic is meaningful. Until then, it doesn't matter.

People, the electorate, are not sitting there thinking, umm, who shall I vote for?

Humblest etc

[Siripon]

BURNING ISSUE

Negative tactics by Democrat Party not winning it many fans

Samudcha Hoonsara

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- These days, many people are closely watching the steps that Thailand's oldest political party, the Democrats, will take. This is because the party seems to be taking a totally different course from its rival, the ruling Pheu Thai Party.

Although the Cabinet led by Yingluck Shinawatra is seen as vastly inferior to previous cabinets under her brother Thaksin, the Democrat Party has failed to undermine it effectively, despite the obvious weaknesses.

On the other hand, the opposition party is doing all it can by whatever means to overthrow the Yingluck administration. Its efforts have reached the point where many observers simply shake their heads in disapproval at some of the party's actions, which have been deemed as overstepping democratic behaviour.

Former Democrat leader Chuan Leekpai once famously said, back in 1992: "I believe in the parliamentary system."

Today, there are people who mock that remark, saying the party is no longer following that path because of claims that some key party figures are now colluding with various groups such as the yellow-shirt People's Alliance for Democracy in a bid to overthrow the government via extra-parliamentary means.

This fits the red-shirt leaders' repeated claim that the Democrat Party does not play by the rules, such as the time when Abhisit Vejjajiva's cabinet was arranged inside a military barracks and its dependency on the so-called independent state agencies and the Army to oust Thaksin-led governments.

Some of these allegations were even admitted to be true by key figures within the Democrat Party.

While it seems the party has no way of gaining more seats in Parliament than Pheu Thai, the Democrats ought to try to come up with a new strategy.

Deputy party leader Alongkorn Ponlaboot has a theory that the Democrats are like a frog trapped in slowly boiling water. However, reforms he proposed have been rejected by party heavyweights.

The party also lacks a catchy motto that could energise voters like that of the Pheu Thai - "Thaksin thinks, Pheu Thai acts", or "Rethink and re-do" by the now-defunct Thai Rak Thai, Thaksin's initial political entity.

Instead, the Democrats seem trapped in the old game of mud-slinging, daily pedantic verbal retaliation and harsh verbal comments made on social media. Its Blue Sky satellite TV channel, meanwhile, repeatedly attacks Thaksin and the red shirts without offering anything new to convince the non-converted.

Filibusters, including irrational protests during parliamentary deliberation, that drag on overnight have also left people fed up and not wanting to follow the debate. The Democrats also rejected all alternatives offered by opponents including the latest political reform forum, even though they could gain political points from the public if they just listened to what the government has to offer - and pull out when it's obvious that it's not going to work.

Their attitude - being too eager to get what they want - could hurt the party if they don't get what they want, and end up alienating supporters who are not partisan fans. Their actions seem like a nagging child who cries loudly without caring when his or her parents refuse to buy a toy.

The party ought to reform, if possible, before it's too late, and its chances in the next election disappear.

-- The Nation 2013-08-23

I could not add anything more. In my opinion, this article says everything about the state of the democrat party.

There are some very capable and good people within the democrats. It just seems that their obsession about Thaksin alienates their judgement. They do not make politics anymore. They just play dirty games and spread rumors. The behavior they show to the public is really immature. They are irrational. Their strategy is doomed.

There will be a day the Dems will have to come back to the real world.

'Thaksin thinks, Pheua Thai does' was the slogan of Pheua Thai in the last election- now that's what I call an obsession, they know full well that the northern and Issan grass roots still love Thaksin and that without him Pheau Thai are doomed.

So all their MPs continue to kowtow down to him, pushing through legislation to turn the Senate into a rubber stamp of Parliament, rolling back democratic checks and balances.

The Democrats had to do what they did in Parliament last week. They have to show the dormant Thai public the authoritarian, dictatorial beast that Thaksin and Pheau Thai are.

[jayboy]

I could not add anything more. In my opinion, this article says everything about the state of the democrat party.

There are some very capable and good people within the democrats. It just seems that their obsession about Thaksin alienates their judgement. They do not make politics anymore. They just play dirty games and spread rumors. The behavior they show to the public is really immature. They are irrational. Their strategy is doomed.

There will be a day the Dems will have to come back to the real world.

'Thaksin thinks, Pheua Thai does' was the slogan of Pheua Thai in the last election- now that's what I call an obsession, they know full well that the northern and Issan grass roots still love Thaksin and that without him Pheau Thai are doomed.

So all their MPs continue to kowtow down to him, pushing through legislation to turn the Senate into a rubber stamp of Parliament, rolling back democratic checks and balances.

The Democrats had to do what they did in Parliament last week. They have to show the dormant Thai public the authoritarian, dictatorial beast that Thaksin and Pheau Thai are.

The Democrats have a decent case (particularly given the Speaker's curtailing of debate) to make but their shenanigans iin parliament weakened their position.Your post indicates the self defeating mindset that is gradually strangling them.They did not "do what thew had to do":they behaved like unruly children.The reference to the "dormant Thai public' is also revealing.When there is such a contempt for the Thai public (of which the North and North East are key constituents) there is very little hope the Democrats can make a come back under their present leadership.

[Siripon]

I could not add anything more. In my opinion, this article says everything about the state of the democrat party.

There are some very capable and good people within the democrats. It just seems that their obsession about Thaksin alienates their judgement. They do not make politics anymore. They just play dirty games and spread rumors. The behavior they show to the public is really immature. They are irrational. Their strategy is doomed.

There will be a day the Dems will have to come back to the real world.

'Thaksin thinks, Pheua Thai does' was the slogan of Pheua Thai in the last election- now that's what I call an obsession, they know full well that the northern and Issan grass roots still love Thaksin and that without him Pheau Thai are doomed.

So all their MPs continue to kowtow down to him, pushing through legislation to turn the Senate into a rubber stamp of Parliament, rolling back democratic checks and balances.

The Democrats had to do what they did in Parliament last week. They have to show the dormant Thai public the authoritarian, dictatorial beast that Thaksin and Pheau Thai are.

The Democrats have a decent case (particularly given the Speaker's curtailing of debate) to make but their shenanigans iin parliament weakened their position.Your post indicates the self defeating mindset that is gradually strangling them.They did not "do what thew had to do":they behaved like unruly children.The reference to the "dormant Thai public' is also revealing.When there is such a contempt for the Thai public (of which the North and North East are key constituents) there is very little hope the Democrats can make a come back under their present leadership.

The Democrats had no choice but to protest aggressively after the Speaker refused to let the majority of their proposed debaters speak.

My reference to the 'dormant Thai public' is sadly based on my own observations that 90% of the Thai public have no idea, and indeed are not particularly interested in what the MPs were debating last week.

It has nothing to do with the north or Issan.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Siripon

[Robby nz]

The Democrats have a decent case (particularly given the Speaker's curtailing of debate) to make but their shenanigans iin parliament weakened their position.Your post indicates the self defeating mindset that is gradually strangling them.They did not "do what thew had to do":they behaved like unruly children.The reference to the "dormant Thai public' is also revealing.When there is such a contempt for the Thai public (of which the North and North East are key constituents) there is very little hope the Democrats can make a come back under their present leadership.

And what were they supposed to do jayboy after, as you say, the speaker had refused to let them speak?

Sit down and say thank you Mr speaker.

And then the speaker had to threaten the police.

And after that lie that the riot police that had been called were only traffic cops.

Childish behavior, threaten when you don't get your way, lie when you are caught out?

[Noistar]

The Democrats have a decent case (particularly given the Speaker's curtailing of debate) to make but their shenanigans iin parliament weakened their position.Your post indicates the self defeating mindset that is gradually strangling them.They did not "do what thew had to do":they behaved like unruly children.The reference to the "dormant Thai public' is also revealing.When there is such a contempt for the Thai public (of which the North and North East are key constituents) there is very little hope the Democrats can make a come back under their present leadership.

And what were they supposed to do jayboy after, as you say, the speaker had refused to let them speak?

Sit down and say thank you Mr speaker.

And then the speaker had to threaten the police.

And after that lie that the riot police that had been called were only traffic cops.

Childish behavior, threaten when you don't get your way, lie when you are caught out?

There's democracy and, well, Thai democracy.

Look at the record of Abhisit as PM. Look at his reconciliation speeches, asking Thais to recognise their differences but concentrate on the greater good for the people and country. Perhaps naive, but certainly better than forcing reconciliation.

The only contempt shown for the Thai electorate/people, comes from Pheu Thai. What do the Democrats propose as their vision? Who knows? They spend all their time fighting this version of parliamentary democracy to even get a debate, let alone a relaxed to and fro between Government and Opposition.

Abhisit tries to meet the people all over the country, but is faced with the bully boys enforcing their version of democracy. I don't see any sign of contempt on his part in that.

The Democrats have limited options. I would be interested to know how Democrat detractors think the Opposition can do anything, when the speaker, who should be concerned with parliamentary procedure, spends all his time shielding the Government.

[jayboy]

The Democrats have to decide what kind of party they are.The recent display of yobbery in parliament didn't serve their interests well, and probably reflects the divisions between those who wish to oppose the government by conventional means and those who want to take the battle on to the streets.Even Abhisit in public meetings now has abandoned his civilised Etonian demeanour and spews out a cruder line.All of which doesn't help their future prospects.I'm a foreigner, reasonably well off and well educated - all my natural sympathies are with the old style Democrats, a conservative by temperament.I introduce the personal note because I believe there are many Thais in my position who feel profoundly uncomfortable with the way the Democrats have tied themselves up with reactionary forces.

As to Siripon's post.In most countries, even the most developed, there's little interest in parliamentary debate.We need to be careful however in jumping to the conclusion that the mass of the people are not fit to decide.I think the key objective is to raise the standards of MPs and Senators.An aggressive stance in parliament is I think OK but it's a matter of judgement for the leadership when it goes too far.Last week it did.

The New York Times has an interesting and relevant take

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/26/world/asia/a-staid-thai-party-takes-to-protesting-the-government.html?hp&_r=0

[Robby nz]

The Democrats have to decide what kind of party they are.The recent display of yobbery in parliament didn't serve their interests well, and probably reflects the divisions between those who wish to oppose the government by conventional means and those who want to take the battle on to the streets.Even Abhisit in public meetings now has abandoned his civilised Etonian demeanour and spews out a cruder line.All of which doesn't help their future prospects.I'm a foreigner, reasonably well off and well educated - all my natural sympathies are with the old style Democrats, a conservative by temperament.I introduce the personal note because I believe there are many Thais in my position who feel profoundly uncomfortable with the way the Democrats have tied themselves up with reactionary forces.

As to Siripon's post.In most countries, even the most developed, there's little interest in parliamentary debate.We need to be careful however in jumping to the conclusion that the mass of the people are not fit to decide.I think the key objective is to raise the standards of MPs and Senators.An aggressive stance in parliament is I think OK but it's a matter of judgement for the leadership when it goes too far.Last week it did.

Your democrat sympathies are really showing through when you start calling them yobs.

So once again what were they supposed to do when they were told they were not allowed to speak?

Didn't I read that the speaker said he didn't want to hear any more because he was bored?

The real trouble only started when the cops were called in and then they only acted after he threatened them with what would happen if they didn't throw the Dems out.

Don't you think possibly the speaker could have found a gentler more civilized way to handle things rather than just calling the cops, and the riot police as well.

As for taking to the streets, once when they led (from the front) their MP's and supporters to parliament.

Any other Dem rallies have been organized and not on the street.

However as another poster noted, the reds have been there trying to disrupt the Dems rallies and they have been blocking roads in their attempts, if you had been to a Dem rally you would have seen this

[Noistar]

The Democrats have to decide what kind of party they are.The recent display of yobbery in parliament didn't serve their interests well, and probably reflects the divisions between those who wish to oppose the government by conventional means and those who want to take the battle on to the streets.Even Abhisit in public meetings now has abandoned his civilised Etonian demeanour and spews out a cruder line.All of which doesn't help their future prospects.I'm a foreigner, reasonably well off and well educated - all my natural sympathies are with the old style Democrats, a conservative by temperament.I introduce the personal note because I believe there are many Thais in my position who feel profoundly uncomfortable with the way the Democrats have tied themselves up with reactionary forces.

As to Siripon's post.In most countries, even the most developed, there's little interest in parliamentary debate.We need to be careful however in jumping to the conclusion that the mass of the people are not fit to decide.I think the key objective is to raise the standards of MPs and Senators.An aggressive stance in parliament is I think OK but it's a matter of judgement for the leadership when it goes too far.Last week it did.

The New York Times has an interesting and relevant take

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/26/world/asia/a-staid-thai-party-takes-to-protesting-the-government.html?hp&_r=0

Perhaps you need to ask yourself WHY there's little interest in parliamentary debate. It's not a case of whether the democratic electorate are fit to decide.

In the first world, I imagine there's very little interest in actual parliamentary debate. I imagine its the media, from the Sun through to the FT which have more impact. If Thais don't follow politics on the television, do they read? I was led to believe that reading isn't at the top of a Thai's 'what shall I do now?' list.

It's not a case of whether Thais are fit to decide, it's more a case of how do they reach their decisions.

[gerry1011]

I could not add anything more. In my opinion, this article says everything about the state of the democrat party.

There are some very capable and good people within the democrats. It just seems that their obsession about Thaksin alienates their judgement. They do not make politics anymore. They just play dirty games and spread rumors. The behavior they show to the public is really immature. They are irrational. Their strategy is doomed.

There will be a day the Dems will have to come back to the real world.

Hear we go again from the same poster .

The Dems have an obsession with Thaksin

Who was it that offered to have his head cut off if he didn't get Thaksin back free of all charges by the end of the year?

Now that is an obsession.

It does not change the fact that since years the Dem's actions are only driven by their obsession about Thaksin and everything and everyone related to him. It would be difficult to argue the contrary. Bring the "Thaksin's regime" down is their only agenda.

It affects every single movement they make, everything they say, and every action they take.

I do find their attitude irrational. They keep themselves backward while everyone else moves forward. It's obviously not paying on the political level.

They are (I guess) intelligent people. Educated. Professional politicians... How comes they cannot come up with "something" different and more mature than their usual rubbish and low level political games.

I think that, apart from saying "no" to everything, they just do not have any kind of strategy.

They still fight their own "old war", while the others try to move forward.

The army sides with Yingluck, Gen Prem asks to support the prime minister, former Democrats' leader Khun Bhichai sits at the reform forum, most people want reconciliation... but the Dem's keep barking.

I understand that many on this forum also blindly side with the Dem's, no problem with that. But personally I just don't get it. This stubbornness cannot be a "strategy". It's too childish.

The only thing they do is to delay debates in the parliament, complain to the constitution court every other day, launch rumors and say half truths, ...

There is something wrong with these guys.

Sent from my iPhone...

[Noistar]

I could not add anything more. In my opinion, this article says everything about the state of the democrat party.

There are some very capable and good people within the democrats. It just seems that their obsession about Thaksin alienates their judgement. They do not make politics anymore. They just play dirty games and spread rumors. The behavior they show to the public is really immature. They are irrational. Their strategy is doomed.

There will be a day the Dems will have to come back to the real world.

Hear we go again from the same poster .

The Dems have an obsession with Thaksin

Who was it that offered to have his head cut off if he didn't get Thaksin back free of all charges by the end of the year?

Now that is an obsession.

It does not change the fact that since years the Dem's actions are only driven by their obsession about Thaksin and everything and everyone related to him. It would be difficult to argue the contrary. Bring the "Thaksin's regime" down is their only agenda.

It affects every single movement they make, everything they say, and every action they take.

I do find their attitude irrational. They keep themselves backward while everyone else moves forward. It's obviously not paying on the political level.

They are (I guess) intelligent people. Educated. Professional politicians... How comes they cannot come up with "something" different and more mature than their usual rubbish and low level political games.

I think that, apart from saying "no" to everything, they just do not have any kind of strategy.

They still fight their own "old war", while the others try to move forward.

The army sides with Yingluck, Gen Prem asks to support the prime minister, former Democrats' leader Khun Bhichai sits at the reform forum, most people want reconciliation... but the Dem's keep barking.

I understand that many on this forum also blindly side with the Dem's, no problem with that. But personally I just don't get it. This stubbornness cannot be a "strategy". It's too childish.

The only thing they do is to delay debates in the parliament, complain to the constitution court every other day, launch rumors and say half truths, ...

There is something wrong with these guys.

Sent from my iPhone...

Firstly, is the Democrat's apparent standing in the eyes of (who?) of any interest to the electorate? A PT voter will not vote Democrat and vice-versa IMO

Secondly, your post seems to be a rambling Democrats are bad, PT are good. You're not a member of the Chiang Mai electorate are you?

The only people keeping 'themselves backward' are PT The reconciliation bill deals with the past. There is no forward vision from PT apart from giving themselves a clean slate.

Many TV posters have criticisms about this government's interpretation of parliamentary democracy. Wanting the government to govern democratically, to put the people first, to apply the rule of law to cowards hiding overseas and people inciting violence, does not make anybody a supporter of the Democrats.

Wanting the Opposition to be allowed to perform their democratic role in parliament is not a negative wish.

A party wants to force the extremes in Thailand's population to play happily together. Anybody think there's a hope in hell it will work? As its so obvious, what is the real motive?

So forget your simplistic PT or Democrat.

[gerry1011]

I could not add anything more. In my opinion, this article says everything about the state of the democrat party.

There are some very capable and good people within the democrats. It just seems that their obsession about Thaksin alienates their judgement. They do not make politics anymore. They just play dirty games and spread rumors. The behavior they show to the public is really immature. They are irrational. Their strategy is doomed.

There will be a day the Dems will have to come back to the real world.

Hear we go again from the same poster .

The Dems have an obsession with Thaksin

Who was it that offered to have his head cut off if he didn't get Thaksin back free of all charges by the end of the year?

Now that is an obsession.

It does not change the fact that since years the Dem's actions are only driven by their obsession about Thaksin and everything and everyone related to him. It would be difficult to argue the contrary. Bring the "Thaksin's regime" down is their only agenda.

It affects every single movement they make, everything they say, and every action they take.

I do find their attitude irrational. They keep themselves backward while everyone else moves forward. It's obviously not paying on the political level.

They are (I guess) intelligent people. Educated. Professional politicians... How comes they cannot come up with "something" different and more mature than their usual rubbish and low level political games.

I think that, apart from saying "no" to everything, they just do not have any kind of strategy.

They still fight their own "old war", while the others try to move forward.

The army sides with Yingluck, Gen Prem asks to support the prime minister, former Democrats' leader Khun Bhichai sits at the reform forum, most people want reconciliation... but the Dem's keep barking.

I understand that many on this forum also blindly side with the Dem's, no problem with that. But personally I just don't get it. This stubbornness cannot be a "strategy". It's too childish.

The only thing they do is to delay debates in the parliament, complain to the constitution court every other day, launch rumors and say half truths, ...

There is something wrong with these guys.

Sent from my iPhone...

Firstly, is the Democrat's apparent standing in the eyes of (who?) of any interest to the electorate? A PT voter will not vote Democrat and vice-versa IMO

Secondly, your post seems to be a rambling Democrats are bad, PT are good. You're not a member of the Chiang Mai electorate are you?

The only people keeping 'themselves backward' are PT The reconciliation bill deals with the past. There is no forward vision from PT apart from giving themselves a clean slate.

Many TV posters have criticisms about this government's interpretation of parliamentary democracy. Wanting the government to govern democratically, to put the people first, to apply the rule of law to cowards hiding overseas and people inciting violence, does not make anybody a supporter of the Democrats.

Wanting the Opposition to be allowed to perform their democratic role in parliament is not a negative wish.

A party wants to force the extremes in Thailand's population to play happily together. Anybody think there's a hope in hell it will work? As its so obvious, what is the real motive?

So forget your simplistic PT or Democrat.

Your opinion is yours.

It does not change the fact that strategy of the Dems is not delivering any result. It probably favors their opponents. They don't go anywhere with that immature strategy.

Looks like it starts to be the opinion of The Nation too (how strange).

Sent from my iPhone...

[ThaiOats]

Your opinion is yours.

It does not change the fact that strategy of the Dems is not delivering any result. It probably favors their opponents. They don't go anywhere with that immature strategy.

Looks like it starts to be the opinion of The Nation too (how strange).

Sent from my iPhone...

The democrats are still testing out different strategies. So far their method of enlightenment only shines on those who care to listen while the rest are still behind the dark crimson veil. If you look at the Democrat Party's youtube channel (thedmpparty) you'd notice that it garnered less than a thousand views on Parliamentary debates out of how many millions of Thai people? Despite the frustration of not being able to table their criticisms, they still continue to battle in Parliament. Or least they were.

Now they're trying a different tactic by doing street politics which is more in tune with Thai people. It gets everyone involved, including students and those who are fed up with the double standards. The recent announcement of the PAD leaders retiring is actually good news for the Democrats since now they can become the beacon to shed more light. Now if the V for Thailand groups start uniting behind the Democrats, even temporarily, then there's still hope that the Thaksin Regime can be stopped.

However, the Democrats have too have to make some sacrifice. Such as getting rid of Suthep since there's a bit of stigma surround the corrupted fellow who continues to deliver BS in his speeches. They should also stop inviting bad-mouth Kaewsun or least make him wash his mouth before he gets on stage. The DP can be a force to be reckoned with only if Abhisit can truly make a stand and purge the filth from the party, but that's highly unlikely. Nonetheless, those who oppose the government have to rely on the Democrat Party and vice-versa and even Abhisit said it in his speech, "if the DP does wrong to the country, then it's the duty of the people to get rid of them".

Edited August 27, 2013 by ThaiOats

[gerry1011]

Your opinion is yours.

It does not change the fact that strategy of the Dems is not delivering any result. It probably favors their opponents. They don't go anywhere with that immature strategy.

Looks like it starts to be the opinion of The Nation too (how strange).

Sent from my iPhone...

The democrats are still testing out different strategies. So far their method of enlightenment only shines on those who care to listen while the rest are still behind the dark crimson veil. If you look at the Democrat Party's youtube channel (thedmpparty) you'd notice that it garnered less than a thousand views on Parliamentary debates out of how many millions of Thai people? Despite the frustration of not being able to table their criticisms, they still continue to battle in Parliament. Or least they were.

Now they're trying a different tactic by doing street politics which is more in tune with Thai people. It gets everyone involved, including students and those who are fed up with the double standards. The recent announcement of the PAD leaders retiring is actually good news for the Democrats since now they can become the beacon to shed more light. Now if the V for Thailand groups start uniting behind the Democrats, even temporarily, then there's still hope that the Thaksin Regime can be stopped.

However, the Democrats have too have to make some sacrifice. Such as getting rid of Suthep since there's a bit of stigma surround the corrupted fellow who continues to deliver BS in his speeches. They should also stop inviting bad-mouth Kaewsun or least make him wash his mouth before he gets on stage. The DP can be a force to be reckoned with only if Abhisit can truly make a stand and purge the filth from the party, but that's highly unlikely. Nonetheless, those who oppose the government have to rely on the Democrat Party and vice-versa and even Abhisit said it in his speech, "if the DP does wrong to the country, then it's the duty of the people to get rid of them".

"So far their method of enlightenment only shines on those who care to listen".

Personally I do listen to both.

When I say "listen" I mean listen on thai TV, both the red and blue channels, and sometimes I even spend time to watch the debate in parliament on TV too. Quite boring I must admit...

(At this point please try not to divert the thread to whatever regarding the understanding of the Thai language, so we save time and space)

I do not rely on English newspapers to make my opinion, since I find them too biased in too many articles. I do read these articles on this forum though...

In reality, my views are much closer to the views of a party like the Democrats, but it is their behavior and the way they do politics that really puts me off.

What a show they create. And honestly I don't get it (!?!)

While most on this forum, with a bizarre sense of superiority, like to put all the reds in a single bag of idiots, I don't think the same about the Dems, or even the yellows.

As I wrote, there are some really smart people in that party, and I know some. (As well as some red MPs, of course).

But the way the Dems "run" their party and their strategy is so far away from their intellectual capacities.

The party should be run like you would run a business. They need more "customers". Instead of having a strategy aimed at bringing more people on their side, they act like if they want to put off their followers.

Street politics is the worst they could do, in my opinion.

It all started with the yellows going to the streets and, apart from putting the country on hold for years, it did not bring anything positive.

They should sit at the table with the others, find a way out of the present conflict, start to behave like adults, and then reform themselves into an opposition party which could appeal to more people. There is a lot of work for sure, but in the long run it would pay.

I am speaking about "strategy for the party".

Of course, if the Dems feel like it is God himself who gave them the sacred mission to fight their opponent till their death, then they have the right strategy

Sent from my iPhone...

[Robby nz]

Your opinion is yours.

It does not change the fact that strategy of the Dems is not delivering any result. It probably favors their opponents. They don't go anywhere with that immature strategy.

Looks like it starts to be the opinion of The Nation too (how strange).

Your opinion is your own also Gerry and that of the same few red supporters who post on here.

You don't seem to be able to see just how obsessed PT are with Thaksin, right from "Thaksin thinks PT acts" up to the present with MPs and cabinet members flying off to see him in different parts of the world, no doubt at tax payers expense.

We see now that even the army have to beg to Thaksin for promotion as reported elsewhere :

The source said a group of military officials had travelled to London to lobby Thaksin in support of their being promoted in the reshuffle.

You talk about the Dems being ineffective, well they seem to have been able to win some by-elections, the most recent by a swing of around 12% from the general election result.

Big sister only won her safe seat by a reduced majority, even her driver got more votes than her in the general election.

Then there was the BKK mayor election, Ok the Dems only won because PT didn't put up the power pole as Thaksin suggested, they should have listened to him.

Did you know that your smiling PM has visited 41 countries since she has been in office, one every two and a half weeks.

It would appear she hasn't been in parliament that many times.

Last visit to the house for a photo op she was asked a question which was evaded, was reported that after the Dem chief whip went and talked to he for a couple of minutes she left.

A great way to run the country, right?

Have you not noticed the growing number of demos going on around the place?

You don't think that could indicate some sort of a dissatisfaction with PT do you?

I suggest if you want to be looking at anyone's performance and being critical you should try PT they are stuffing up far more things then anyone else.

[gerry1011]

Your opinion is yours.

It does not change the fact that strategy of the Dems is not delivering any result. It probably favors their opponents. They don't go anywhere with that immature strategy.

Looks like it starts to be the opinion of The Nation too (how strange).

Your opinion is your own also Gerry and that of the same few red supporters who post on here.

You don't seem to be able to see just how obsessed PT are with Thaksin, right from "Thaksin thinks PT acts" up to the present with MPs and cabinet members flying off to see him in different parts of the world, no doubt at tax payers expense.

We see now that even the army have to beg to Thaksin for promotion as reported elsewhere :

The source said a group of military officials had travelled to London to lobby Thaksin in support of their being promoted in the reshuffle.

You talk about the Dems being ineffective, well they seem to have been able to win some by-elections, the most recent by a swing of around 12% from the general election result.

Big sister only won her safe seat by a reduced majority, even her driver got more votes than her in the general election.

Then there was the BKK mayor election, Ok the Dems only won because PT didn't put up the power pole as Thaksin suggested, they should have listened to him.

Did you know that your smiling PM has visited 41 countries since she has been in office, one every two and a half weeks.

It would appear she hasn't been in parliament that many times.

Last visit to the house for a photo op she was asked a question which was evaded, was reported that after the Dem chief whip went and talked to he for a couple of minutes she left.

A great way to run the country, right?

Have you not noticed the growing number of demos going on around the place?

You don't think that could indicate some sort of a dissatisfaction with PT do you?

I suggest if you want to be looking at anyone's performance and being critical you should try PT they are stuffing up far more things then anyone else.

I was commenting about the strategy of the Democrats... a strategy that does not pay.

Whatever is your opinion about Yingluck and her government, the Dems still should have a better strategy if they want to counter the other political parties (in parliament and in elections).

The rest has been said countless times, I don't want to lose time arguing about it.

Sent from my iPhone...

[Thai at Heart]

Other than korn and abhisit, ptp aren't individually more politically capable than the dems. Thaksin has employed consultancies to deliver strategies and political plans.

The dems genuinely believe they are politically capable. That is their downfall. They can't strategize or plan anything. Actually, basically like the entire population.

Whether there are others in the Dems capable of anything is a moot point if there are it isn't showing at present.

However there must be some in there who have expertise in some fields but if there are, they are not it seems being used effectively.

Looks to me that the Dems never had much of a fair go when they were in power.

First they had to appease the parasite parties who they needed to form a Govt and who were really no use at all for anything other than getting as much out of it as possible for themselves.

We see the same lot now in with PT for the same reason, even though some of them said in the election that they would never go along with Thaksin.

Then there were the red riots arranged by you know who.

As well as the death and destruction that must have cost the country dearly not only in cash but in progress and overseas confidence and investment.

Then there was the Cambodian incursion which must only have compounded the problems.

Yet through it all and a world economic downturn they still managed to keep the countries economy going.

And where are Newins lot in all of this, are they not supposed to be part of the opposition also?

Yet not a peep out of them, possibly sitting on the sideline looking on in envy hoping not to upset PT so they might get a suck at the honey pot in the future.

There is the guy who was at the UN who proposed reform and got roundly squished.

Beyond him and korn and abhisit, let's think if a few that are capable and untainted?

Suthep or kasit? Lololol

[ThaiOats]

Your opinion is yours.

It does not change the fact that strategy of the Dems is not delivering any result. It probably favors their opponents. They don't go anywhere with that immature strategy.

Looks like it starts to be the opinion of The Nation too (how strange).

Sent from my iPhone...

The democrats are still testing out different strategies. So far their method of enlightenment only shines on those who care to listen while the rest are still behind the dark crimson veil. If you look at the Democrat Party's youtube channel (thedmpparty) you'd notice that it garnered less than a thousand views on Parliamentary debates out of how many millions of Thai people? Despite the frustration of not being able to table their criticisms, they still continue to battle in Parliament. Or least they were.

Now they're trying a different tactic by doing street politics which is more in tune with Thai people. It gets everyone involved, including students and those who are fed up with the double standards. The recent announcement of the PAD leaders retiring is actually good news for the Democrats since now they can become the beacon to shed more light. Now if the V for Thailand groups start uniting behind the Democrats, even temporarily, then there's still hope that the Thaksin Regime can be stopped.

However, the Democrats have too have to make some sacrifice. Such as getting rid of Suthep since there's a bit of stigma surround the corrupted fellow who continues to deliver BS in his speeches. They should also stop inviting bad-mouth Kaewsun or least make him wash his mouth before he gets on stage. The DP can be a force to be reckoned with only if Abhisit can truly make a stand and purge the filth from the party, but that's highly unlikely. Nonetheless, those who oppose the government have to rely on the Democrat Party and vice-versa and even Abhisit said it in his speech, "if the DP does wrong to the country, then it's the duty of the people to get rid of them".

"So far their method of enlightenment only shines on those who care to listen".

Personally I do listen to both.

When I say "listen" I mean listen on thai TV, both the red and blue channels, and sometimes I even spend time to watch the debate in parliament on TV too. Quite boring I must admit...

(At this point please try not to divert the thread to whatever regarding the understanding of the Thai language, so we save time and space)

I do not rely on English newspapers to make my opinion, since I find them too biased in too many articles. I do read these articles on this forum though...

In reality, my views are much closer to the views of a party like the Democrats, but it is their behavior and the way they do politics that really puts me off.

What a show they create. And honestly I don't get it (!?!)

While most on this forum, with a bizarre sense of superiority, like to put all the reds in a single bag of idiots, I don't think the same about the Dems, or even the yellows.

As I wrote, there are some really smart people in that party, and I know some. (As well as some red MPs, of course).

But the way the Dems "run" their party and their strategy is so far away from their intellectual capacities.

The party should be run like you would run a business. They need more "customers". Instead of having a strategy aimed at bringing more people on their side, they act like if they want to put off their followers.

Street politics is the worst they could do, in my opinion.

It all started with the yellows going to the streets and, apart from putting the country on hold for years, it did not bring anything positive.

They should sit at the table with the others, find a way out of the present conflict, start to behave like adults, and then reform themselves into an opposition party which could appeal to more people. There is a lot of work for sure, but in the long run it would pay.

I am speaking about "strategy for the party".

Of course, if the Dems feel like it is God himself who gave them the sacred mission to fight their opponent till their death, then they have the right strategy

Sent from my iPhone...

They're not exactly acting like children, if you want childish actions and mentality, look at the present government. Anyway, the DP are trying to bring out intellectual debates but the government keep dodging. Remember when the Association of Journalism wanted to hold a live debate between the DP and PTP, the government initially agreed and then refused. They know they cannot defeat the Democrats in an adult like debate, so they prefer the bully tactics. The Democrats previous strategies by relying on debates and exposing the government in hopes of having the people protest for transparency is too slow. History has shown that street politics works best for Thailand, which is why we still Thailand as Demo-crazy and some will argue that Thailand's mentality isnt quite yet matured enough for a democracy. Look at the the PM's behaviour, cronyism, NEPOTISM and the laughable justice system that rulings get overturned more than van accidents and the wealthy gets off scott free. Again, street politics work even though it's not exactly mature but previous governments rely on their rally stages and hate speeches to build up people's emotions which is why there are stupid defamation laws. Thai politicians throw garbage at each other all the time.

Listen to Chuan Leek Pai's speeches, compare them to Abhisit, Jatuporn, Kaewsun or any other major speakers and you'll see why the former isn't exactly an entertainer. Thai solidarity seems to work best when riled up and not to sit there to work out the information.

You'd have to pardon the DP for stooping down to the PTP level, but it's the only way they're going to stop the bigger problem of being childish. They're trying to save public debt and the country from being a family owned cartel. If they are perceived as being childish, so be it.