Child visa refusal appeal representation

[ccfc1927]

Hi

Just had a child visa refused for wifes daughter to come to the UK, was a tricky one as there had been a gap of six years so knew it could go either way but felt we provided strong evidence.

Anyway, I will be appealing the decision as there are lots of errors in the decision notice and key things not addressed, I feel confident doing this myself, therefore not getting any legal representative, but my worry is if they see there is no legal representative maybe it is easier for them to dismiss the case more so than if there is legal representation do you think this would be the case or am I being over paranoid?

[7by7]

There is no requirement for the appellant to have legal representation at the appeal; but I would strongly advise it; as I would for any court.

This representative will be able to advise you on what you need to do to have the refusal overturned.

Unless UKV&I (previously the UKBA) decide to overturn the refusal themselves before it gets that far, the case will be decided by an independent tribunal.

See Immigration and Asylum Tribunal guidance.

If you want advice from members here, then you need to post the full refusal notice; having first deleted all names and any other information which could identify you or the child(ren).

[7by7]

One other thing.

It is often the case that the refusal is based upon what was said in interviews with the child and/or the child's current carer(s).

This will be mentioned in the refusal notice if so.

In which case you must get hold of a copy of the full transcript of those interviews.

The embassy wont give them to you unless you ask; but if you do ask then they must give them to you.

Remember you must submit the notice of appeal within 28 days of the refusal.

[ccfc1927]

Thanks 7by7, I will look to post it on here later, I am tempted to do this myself taking into account the timescales allowed for an appeal to be submitted, it has taken a while to get all the paperwork back and I am trying to get a copy of the phone interview transcript, so not sure if the timescales will allow the option of getting legal representation.

I am pretty sure I know what they would say anyway in terms of challenging the decision, I know you cannot really comment without seeing the refusal notice but as an example one of the strong reasons we believe the visa should be granted is that one of the grandparents (grandfather) passed away a couple of years ago and this has put a strain on the grandmother especially in controlling the applicant, not only was this not referred to in the decision, but in their response to the applicant they said

"you are currently living with your maternal grandparents" in other words they have not even acknowledged one of them is dead!

Another example, "your grandmother states you send x amont each month for the upkeep of you, there is little evidence to support this only Western Union receipts from 2007-2009"

In the paperwork provided we supplied bank statements from 2009- to date (every month) which shows payments (highlighted in each case) to the grandmother, I can only assume they have not bothered looking at the paperwork that was provided!!

Anyway will scan document on later, rant over for now

[Kevin1908]

I also have had the wife's son's application refused. I am using a visa appeal service as I simpley don't trust UKBA based on the pig's ear of a mess that they made of the application. They seem to put all the emphasis on what the kids says and nothing on what the parents say. Personally I think it is wrong to base the decision on a telephone interview, a mobile phone interview at that. They interviewed the wife's son while he was in school, he could barely hear what was being asked, he was confused but didn't have the bottle to tell the interviewer that it was inconvenient to interview him while he was at school.

I have got him to make a statement about the interview and that contradicts what UKBA are saying. If need be I want the boy to attend the hearing.

Needless to say both parents statements appeared to have been ignored. I find it odd that what is in the best interest of the child doesn't factor into the UKBA decision. In UK law everything to do with kids is centred on the best interests of the child. How leaving a child thousands of miles from the parent who provides support in the care of a single elderly grandparent beggers belief. Can you imagine a UK court giving custody of a child in a divorce battle on that basis. Heaven forbid what happens if the other grand parent dies. I suppose the kid lives on the street.

[hearditallbefore]

@ kevin, if they remove the child, they take away the grandparents meal ticket and income that comes from you. When she dies, they will be happy to let you have him.

[theoldgit]

Heaven forbid what happens if the other grand parent dies. I suppose the kid lives on the street.

And I think this is the issue that the UKBA (as was) fails to address, Grandparents do get old and will not be around forever.

Some people will critise mothers who make tremendous sacrifices, put their kids first and build a new life overseas with the expectation that the kids will join them when they can properly take care of them.

Likewise the grandparents,who have probably had their fill of child rearing, look after their grandchildren, sometimes for extended periods.

I believe that it's morally wrong for the UKBA to suggest that as a grandparent has looked after a child for a period of time that they should be expected to carry on doing so in their latter years, when their own mother wants to resume responsibilty.

Of course some people would abuse the system, and I don't know what category Kevins wife falls into, though I suspect his wife isn't out to abuse the system, but I don't think it's unreasonable for a child to be reunited with their mother when the mother is able to take care.

[7by7]

Heaven forbid what happens if the other grand parent dies. I suppose the kid lives on the street.

And I think this is the issue that the UKBA (as was) fails to address, Grandparents do get old and will not be around forever.

That is true, OG, but as I understand it the ECO has to make their judgement based upon the circumstances at the time of the application, not on what may happen in the future.

Also, whilst I don't want to start another cat fight with him, I think it's important to remember that in Kevin's stepson's case everything he has posted, such as

Needless to say both parents statements appeared to have been ignored.

(My emphasis)

indicates that the boy's father is still taking an active role in the decisions over the boy's life.

Indeed, before submitting the application Kevin admitted that there was confusion over who actually had legal custody of the boy; the father or the mother.

Whether he got this sorted, as advised, before submitting the application he's never said.

Whether it played a part in the refusal we'll never know because he wont tell us the full details of the GV51.

[theoldgit]

You're totally correct 7by7, as usual, but as you know I have always been concerned that whilst the ECO's have to take account of the current position, Grandparents are never going to be around forever, so what's the position when the inevitable comes?

I do know that you can't be expected to answer that.

[7by7]

I guess the official thinking is that when that occurs the child will either be over 18 and so an adult, or that the child applies then.

Having said that, I have never heard of a situation where a child who has been in the care of their maternal grandparents being refused permission to join their mother in the UK when all the criteria have been met; especially sole responsibility. No matter the age or health of the grandparents.

Have you?

Except in cases like the OP's where, from what he has said, it appears mistakes have been made by the ECO; though we'll have to wait for him to post the GV51 to determine that for sure.

N.B. I say 'maternal' and 'mother' as this is the usual situation we hear about. It could equally, of course, be 'paternal' and 'father.'

[Kevin1908]

@ kevin, if they remove the child, they take away the grandparents meal ticket and income that comes from you. When she dies, they will be happy to let you have him.

Who are "they"?