classifier for 'hobby' please

[somchai jones]

Hi folks, can anyone help me out with this:

Is there a classifier for 'hobby'

e.g. if I say 'She has two friends', it would be 'kao mee peuan sawng kon'

So if I want to say she has two hobbies, it would be 'kao mee ngaan a-di-rayk sawng _________?

Any help much appreciated.

[eric67]

My dictionary says อัน "an" is the classifier for อดิเรก

[Mole]

hmm อัน sounds right

I suppose อย่าง could be good too.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Mole

[onthemoon]

My feeling says that 'ngaan' could also be used. Wrong?

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[somchai jones]

hmm อัน sounds right

I suppose อย่าง could be good too.

Thanks for both your replies, 'an' is the classifier I always use as an option when in doubt and I see how yaang could work in the sense of two 'kinds' of hobby. Thanks.

[somchai jones]

hmm อัน sounds right

I suppose อย่าง could be good too.

Thanks for both your replies, 'an' is the classifier I always use as an option when in doubt and I see how yaang could work in the sense of two 'kinds' of hobby. Thanks.

Just seen the 3rd reply - 'ngan' in the sense that a hobby is a task of sorts?

[DavidHouston]

Here is a sentence from the internet:

"การมีงานอดิเรก เสมือนเราได้มีพื้นที่ส่วนตัว ที่ไม่มีใครสามารถล่วงล้ำ เราอาจมีงานอดิเรกหลายอย่างในแต่ละช่วงชีวิต"

Having a hobby is like having one's own private space where no one can intrude. We might have a different hobbies during each stage of our life."

"อย่าง" as a classifier for hobbies sounds good to me.

(BTW, does anyone think that "ล่วงล้ำ" should be followed by "ได้" in this context?)

[onthemoon]

hmm อัน sounds right

I suppose อย่าง could be good too.

 

Thanks for both your replies, 'an' is the classifier I always use as an option when in doubt and I see how yaang could work in the sense of two 'kinds' of hobby. Thanks.

Yes, 'an' is the classifier to use if you don't know which classifier to use.

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[Mole]

Ironically, งาน can't be used as classifier for งานอดิเรก

[tgeezer]

Here is a sentence from the internet:

"การมีงานอดิเรก เสมือนเราได้มีพื้นที่ส่วนตัว ที่ไม่มีใครสามารถล่วงล้ำ เราอาจมีงานอดิเรกหลายอย่างในแต่ละช่วงชีวิต"

Having a hobby is like having one's own private space where no one can intrude. We might have a different hobbies during each stage of our life."

"อย่าง" as a classifier for hobbies sounds good to me.

(BTW, does anyone think that "ล่วงล้ำ" should be followed by "ได้" in this context?)

It is popular to say สามารถ---ได but สามารถ is an adjective saying ไม่มีใคร nobody is capable, so isn't ล่วงล้ำได้ repetitive.

We use อดิเรก as hobby but it is actually งานอดิเรก as in the example. งาน (สิ่งหรือเรื่องที่ทำ) so สิ่ง would appear to be the noun, in which case สิ่ง,อัน,orอย่าง could do it I should think. Certainly most English speakers see the noun 'hobby' when they use อดิเรก.

ผมมีอดิเรกที่ทำประจำสองอย่างคือการเล่นกอล์ฟกับการว่ายน้ำ.

Is that OK?

Edited August 26, 2013 by tgeezer

[Mole]

I've ever used and heard as งานอดิเรก. Although อดิเรก means hobby on its own, colloquially, it's always used as งานอดิเรก.

Only occations I've seen just อดิเรก is some dude's name.

Also, you can't use สิ่ง as classifier for งานอดิเรก.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Mole

[AyG]

According to the classifier dictionary at http://thai-notes.com (direct link http://thai-notes.com/tools/classifiers.shtml) the classifier for งาน is งาน. That would suggest that งาน is the classifier for งานอดิเรก since อดิเรก is simply qualifying งาน.

[Mole]

For just งาน, yes, but not for งานอดิเรก because in this case, the main word is อดิเรก and not งาน.

It may be the opposite, that งาน is qualifying อดิเรก.

Trust me, งาน is not used with งานอดิเรก

Also, keep in mind that งาน can be both a verb and noun which will require different classifiers.

For the noun งาน as in a party the classifier may be งาน

For example: งานเลี้ยงสามงาน

For a tangible piece of work, the classifier may be งาน อัน ชิ้น อย่าง

example เป็นงานประดิษฐ์ผมสามอัน or ชิ้น or อย่าง (but I guess for งานประดิษฐ์, the main word would be ประดิษฐ์)

So, I guess for งาน it gets a bit complicated what classifier to use because the main word may not be งาน but the word it's qualifying.

But for งาน as in profession the classifer is อย่าง as in ผมทำงานสามอย่าง or คุณทำงานกี่อย่าง

Edited August 27, 2013 by Mole

[DavidHouston]

For just งาน, yes, but not for งานอดิเรก because in this case, the main word is อดิเรก and not งาน.

It may be the opposite, that งาน is qualifying อดิเรก.

Trust me, งาน is not used with งานอดิเรก

"งาน" has a number of meanings in Thai. I suspect that งาน as a classifier is used for "event" words like งานเลี้ยง and งานฉลอง.

What do you think?

[Mole]

Yes, in other words, do not focus on just the word งาน but also the word after งาน.

Most of the time you should use the classifier for the word after งาน.

[AyG]

Mary Haas's dictionary gives the classifier as อย่าง for อดิเรก mentioning that อดิเรก is a short form of งานอดิเรก.

Interestingly, the SEAlang corpus gives an example where งานอดิเรก acts its own classifier. ...ในฤดูกาล 1991 92งานอดิเรก : ดูหนัง ฟังเพลง แอนนา...

[Dag Ekeberg]

Even Thais themselves have problems with this peculiar concept (of classifiers AND of hobbies). So don’t believe everything you read. I say use อย่าง. To TYPES of free-time activities. Makes sense, too. Finally a classifier that makes sense.

[kriswillems]

I wouldn't use อัน here. I think it should be อย่าง.

I might be wrong, but when talking about อัน I immediately think about objects you can actually touch, not about abstract concepts (like hobbies or thoughts). For abstracts concepts I would use อย่าง.

Edited August 27, 2013 by kriswillems

[harrry]

extending this what would be the classifier for party .....or funeral.....

[kriswillems]

Here is a sentence from the internet:

"การมีงานอดิเรก เสมือนเราได้มีพื้นที่ส่วนตัว ที่ไม่มีใครสามารถล่วงล้ำ เราอาจมีงานอดิเรกหลายอย่างในแต่ละช่วงชีวิต"

Having a hobby is like having one's own private space where no one can intrude. We might have a different hobbies during each stage of our life."

"อย่าง" as a classifier for hobbies sounds good to me.

(BTW, does anyone think that "ล่วงล้ำ" should be followed by "ได้" in this context?)

Agree, to be 100% grammatically correct it should have ได้

[somchai jones]

Thanks for all your replies...turned into quite an interesting topic! I feel inclined to go with อย่าง

Cheers all.

[harrry]

My feeling says that 'ngaan' could also be used. Wrong?

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That is exactly what everyone I know says is right.

[Mole]

For weddings and funerals, it's งาน

[tgeezer]

Here is a sentence from the internet:

"การมีงานอดิเรก เสมือนเราได้มีพื้นที่ส่วนตัว ที่ไม่มีใครสามารถล่วงล้ำ เราอาจมีงานอดิเรกหลายอย่างในแต่ละช่วงชีวิต"

Having a hobby is like having one's own private space where no one can intrude. We might have a different hobbies during each stage of our life."

"อย่าง" as a classifier for hobbies sounds good to me.

(BTW, does anyone think that "ล่วงล้ำ" should be followed by "ได้" in this context?)

Agree, to be 100% grammatically correct it should have ได้

A sweeping statement. Out of curiosity, since grammatical correctness is not important in any language, but how do you explain that?

The definition of ได้ as in เขาเดินได้ เขาเขียนได้ มีความหมายต่าง ๆ แล้วแต่ความแวดล้อม คือ อาจ สามารถ the definition of both of these words is : มีคุณสมบัติเหมาะแก่การจัดทำสิ่งใดสิ่งหนึ่งได้ possessing the qualities sufficient to be able to do something.

So to me that means: ไครสามารถล่วงล้ำ= ไครล่วงล้ำได้ = ไครอาจล่วงล้ำ

That doesn't prove anything I know, it is quite possible that สำนวนไทย tags ได้ on the end, but that doesn't make it grammatical until it makes the dictionary; or does it?

[kriswillems]

Here is a sentence from the internet:

"การมีงานอดิเรก เสมือนเราได้มีพื้นที่ส่วนตัว ที่ไม่มีใครสามารถล่วงล้ำ เราอาจมีงานอดิเรกหลายอย่างในแต่ละช่วงชีวิต"

Having a hobby is like having one's own private space where no one can intrude. We might have a different hobbies during each stage of our life."

"อย่าง" as a classifier for hobbies sounds good to me.

(BTW, does anyone think that "ล่วงล้ำ" should be followed by "ได้" in this context?)

Agree, to be 100% grammatically correct it should have ได้

A sweeping statement. Out of curiosity, since grammatical correctness is not important in any language, but how do you explain that?

The definition of ได้ as in เขาเดินได้ เขาเขียนได้ มีความหมายต่าง ๆ แล้วแต่ความแวดล้อม คือ อาจ สามารถ the definition of both of these words is : มีคุณสมบัติเหมาะแก่การจัดทำสิ่งใดสิ่งหนึ่งได้ possessing the qualities sufficient to be able to do something.

So to me that means: ไครสามารถล่วงล้ำ= ไครล่วงล้ำได้ = ไครอาจล่วงล้ำ

That doesn't prove anything I know, it is quite possible that สำนวนไทย tags ได้ on the end, but that doesn't make it grammatical until it makes the dictionary; or does it?

I think it needs ได้ because every single time I forgot to add ได้ in an expression using สามารถ I got a remark from my teacher it was not correct and it's not OK to leave it out in writing language.

I think it's about the same discussion as "does กำาัง need อยู่ in a sentence in present continuous time? ". According to my Thai language teacher กำลัง needs อยู่ in correct writing language, but you hear (and sometimes see) people using it without อยู่.

Edited August 28, 2013 by kriswillems

[tgeezer]

Here is a sentence from the internet:

"การมีงานอดิเรก เสมือนเราได้มีพื้นที่ส่วนตัว ที่ไม่มีใครสามารถล่วงล้ำ เราอาจมีงานอดิเรกหลายอย่างในแต่ละช่วงชีวิต"

Having a hobby is like having one's own private space where no one can intrude. We might have a different hobbies during each stage of our life."

"อย่าง" as a classifier for hobbies sounds good to me.

(BTW, does anyone think that "ล่วงล้ำ" should be followed by "ได้" in this context?)

Agree, to be 100% grammatically correct it should have ได้

A sweeping statement. Out of curiosity, since grammatical correctness is not important in any language, but how do you explain that?

The definition of ได้ as in เขาเดินได้ เขาเขียนได้ มีความหมายต่าง ๆ แล้วแต่ความแวดล้อม คือ อาจ สามารถ the definition of both of these words is : มีคุณสมบัติเหมาะแก่การจัดทำสิ่งใดสิ่งหนึ่งได้ possessing the qualities sufficient to be able to do something.

So to me that means: ไครสามารถล่วงล้ำ= ไครล่วงล้ำได้ = ไครอาจล่วงล้ำ

That doesn't prove anything I know, it is quite possible that สำนวนไทย tags ได้ on the end, but that doesn't make it grammatical until it makes the dictionary; or does it?

I think it needs ได้ because every single time I forgot to add ได้ in an expression using สามารถ I got a remark from my teacher it was not correct and it's not OK to leave it out in writing language.

That is what I would expect; not much of an argument but with teachers there is no debate, you have adapted to the culture very well, that is what I find most difficult.

David's post prompted me to question สามารถ used with ได้ , because without that I would not have questioned it. Is it a similar to a discussion we might have about the use of 'why' in ' the reason why' ?

Just seen your edit.

กำลังอยู่ Lacking a definition of กำลัง in the RID which shows that the associated verb is in the present I am unable to comment.

Edited August 28, 2013 by tgeezer

[kriswillems]

Here's another discussion about the fact that สามารถ should be used with ได้ or not. Thai people seem not to agree about this (see post 1 and 3).

http://www.royin.go.th/th/webboardnew/answer.php?GroupID=1&searchKey=&searchFrom=&searchTo=&PageShow=&TopView=&QID=9701

Language is not like mathematics... nothing is absolute.

Edited August 28, 2013 by kriswillems

[tgeezer]

Here's another discussion about the fact that สามารถ should be used with ได้ or not. Thai people seem not to agree about this (see post 1 and 3).

http://www.royin.go.th/th/webboardnew/answer.php?GroupID=1&searchKey=&searchFrom=&searchTo=&PageShow=&TopView=&QID=9701

Language is not like mathematics... nothing is absolute.

I was lying abed when 'He has the ability to be able to do that' came to mind.

Thanks for the link, very interesting.

[Lara Alex]

To conclude:

'hobby', you should use 'อย่าง' for its classifier e.g. "ผมมีงานอดิเรกสองอย่าง นั่นคือ การปั่นจักรยานและการทำสวน"

'invention,' that means งานประดิษฐ์/สิ่งประดิษฐ์, i'd suggest 'ชิ้น' for its classifier e.g. "นี่คือสิ่งประดิษฐ์ชิ้นโบว์แดงของเขา"

the word 'งาน' both in 'งานอดิเรก' and 'งานประดิษฐ์' functions as a head noun; 'อดิเรก' and 'ประดิษฐ์' function as modifiers.

[xoxman]

my dictionary says อัน

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