Sisters Arrested For Selling 'Counterfeit' Gold

[Replogle]

I'll stick to buying bitcoin.. it's harder to fake and easier to verify authenticity!

To be honest, I am surprised this has only just come up in Thailand. The fake bullion bars in the OP are just the absolute tip of the ice berg. If someone were so inclined they can go online now, call a number in China and order fake bars that would appear to the value of 70 mill baht for 25000 USD, that is a fact. The only common sense defence in any of this is don't buy any bars unless you have access to sophisticated technology to indicate the provenance of a bullion bar or heavy gold piece.

No expensive tests are required. I suggest you read-up. Reports of successfully passing clad as pure to someone who's gained a small bit of basic knowledge are rare.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Replogle

[GentlemanJim]

I'll stick to buying bitcoin.. it's harder to fake and easier to verify authenticity!

To be honest, I am surprised this has only just come up in Thailand. The fake bullion bars in the OP are just the absolute tip of the ice berg. If someone were so inclined they can go online now, call a number in China and order fake bars that would appear to the value of 70 mill baht for 25000 USD, that is a fact. The only common sense defence in any of this is don't buy any bars unless you have access to sophisticated technology to indicate the provenance of a bullion bar or heavy gold piece.

No expensive tests are required. I suggest you read-up. Reports of successfully passing clad as pure to someone who's gained a small bit of basic knowledge are rare.

I have read up thanks, and I am completely aware. I am involved in major investment. Where did I say expensive tests? If I handed you a 1 kg bar of pure gold in your hand and a 1kg bar with a titanium slug in the middle you would not be able to identify which one was the counterfeit. Drilling the bars in a bank or dealership is not acceptable as you would lose gold every time, I said you need sophisticated technology ie non destructive, either a hydraulic pin as previously described or a voltage analysis which would take a skilled operator 5-10 mins per bullion bar. These bars are being found in banks and reputable dealers and their 'small bit of basic knowledge' is a lot more than yours. It is very likely that a very large percentage of the worlds 400 oz bullion bars are counterfeit and it is a fraud that has been committed at Government levels. I am trying to give you a fair and free warning, take it or leave it, it's no skin off my nose

[bigbamboo]

Seems they only detected / proved it was fake when they melted it down, that's a pretty good forgery! The 2 different metals must separate under heat. I wonder how they did it in the first place?

This is actually going on on a scale that most here would find difficult to believe. There are forgeries going on and unless you are really really sharp you just wont know the difference. In China in particular they are producing masses of fake bullion bars, you can even order them. I asked on a freely available website (google is your friend) and got a quote, and a 1kg bar is 550 USD but that is low quality. They are using Gold plated Tungsten!! It is in bullion bars, coins and jewelry, and a jeweler with a pair of scales won't have a clue. Tungsten and Gold are almost identical in terms of density (to three decimal places). when you heavy plate a tungsten bar to the correct specifications, it will weigh precisely the same, it will sound the same if you drop it, it cannot be shown up on x-ray. A good way to check the bars is using a hydraulic pin or needle. This will punch a tiny hole into the bar but not lose the gold. In theory the pin would go straight through a 1kg bar, that is unless you have a bar of tungsten in the middle.

The bars can be engraved to be identical to swiss bank bars, antique bars etc etc. The even bigger scandal is that it is rumoured the fed have been working overtime producing the largest bullion bars of all. These bars sell around $400K each and there are many that are simply tungsten cores coated with around $50K worth of gold. So heavy heavy plate! But a nice return when you are producing a bar for $50500 and selling it for $400k. In the not to distant past (very recent), the US were paying China for something and sent around 400 million in Gold bullion as payment. the Chinese hydraulically tested the gold on arrival and it was the tungsten coated bars!!!! The Chinese quietly refused the shipment and it was quietly flown back to the states. The truth is out there somewhere Scully.....get researching. Any of you with 100g, 500g 1kg bars in your safe or bank boxes really do need to get it checked properly, and x-rays wont work. Coins and rings etc are also being made. They are sold as 'marketing pieces' for display purposes only and 'must not be sold on'...yeah right!

Now off you go, those concerned, your fingers have some research to input Good luck!

It would seem that Gentleman 'Goldfinger' Jim is to gold what GeriatricKid is to every other topic on TV.... our expert in residence.

Aren't we lucky, boys and girls.

[EyesWideOpen]

"Mr. Chaichana Prapruettipong, Managing Director of Gold Dealers Association in Nakhon Ratchasima, said that the fraudulent gold might have been manufactured abroad and smuggled into the Kingdom."

Of course it's from abroad, Thai's never make counterfeit, it have to be a falang mastermind behind this crime?

Wouldn't be surprised if the BIB found the counterfeiter and finger pointing him in the next couple of days

China appears to be the hub of fake gold, so it may have come from there. Wait, is China considered

to be abroad ??

Edit : Just went on Alibaba site in China, and there are a bunch of businesses selling fake gold coins.

Wow, too funny....

Here is from the fake coin site...... Looks like they had a bit of trouble on spelling discipline.... wonder

if they can do a better job on the gold bars.

Edited August 30, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[GentlemanJim]

Seems they only detected / proved it was fake when they melted it down, that's a pretty good forgery! The 2 different metals must separate under heat. I wonder how they did it in the first place?

This is actually going on on a scale that most here would find difficult to believe. There are forgeries going on and unless you are really really sharp you just wont know the difference. In China in particular they are producing masses of fake bullion bars, you can even order them. I asked on a freely available website (google is your friend) and got a quote, and a 1kg bar is 550 USD but that is low quality. They are using Gold plated Tungsten!! It is in bullion bars, coins and jewelry, and a jeweler with a pair of scales won't have a clue. Tungsten and Gold are almost identical in terms of density (to three decimal places). when you heavy plate a tungsten bar to the correct specifications, it will weigh precisely the same, it will sound the same if you drop it, it cannot be shown up on x-ray. A good way to check the bars is using a hydraulic pin or needle. This will punch a tiny hole into the bar but not lose the gold. In theory the pin would go straight through a 1kg bar, that is unless you have a bar of tungsten in the middle.

The bars can be engraved to be identical to swiss bank bars, antique bars etc etc. The even bigger scandal is that it is rumoured the fed have been working overtime producing the largest bullion bars of all. These bars sell around $400K each and there are many that are simply tungsten cores coated with around $50K worth of gold. So heavy heavy plate! But a nice return when you are producing a bar for $50500 and selling it for $400k. In the not to distant past (very recent), the US were paying China for something and sent around 400 million in Gold bullion as payment. the Chinese hydraulically tested the gold on arrival and it was the tungsten coated bars!!!! The Chinese quietly refused the shipment and it was quietly flown back to the states. The truth is out there somewhere Scully.....get researching. Any of you with 100g, 500g 1kg bars in your safe or bank boxes really do need to get it checked properly, and x-rays wont work. Coins and rings etc are also being made. They are sold as 'marketing pieces' for display purposes only and 'must not be sold on'...yeah right!

Now off you go, those concerned, your fingers have some research to input Good luck!

It would seem that Gentleman 'Goldfinger' Jim is to gold what GeriatricKid is to every other topic on TV.... our expert in residence.

Aren't we lucky, boys and girls.

Does it leave you feeling inadequate bigbamboo? It may surprise you to know that there are many people on here who's lives and experiences have consisted of much more than sitting in a bar getting pissed all day chain smoking tabs between thumb and index finger, inventing the next excuse as to why their experiences as an ex member of the SAS cannot be told because of the official secrets act. Anyway, if you are about to buy gold bars or coin then by heeding the totally free advice you don't need to be 'lucky'

[bangon04]

Seems they only detected / proved it was fake when they melted it down, that's a pretty good forgery! The 2 different metals must separate under heat. I wonder how they did it in the first place?

I thought the point about gold is that it has a specific weight? unless the fake bar was much bigger than the real thing.....

[bigbamboo]

Seems they only detected / proved it was fake when they melted it down, that's a pretty good forgery! The 2 different metals must separate under heat. I wonder how they did it in the first place?

This is actually going on on a scale that most here would find difficult to believe. There are forgeries going on and unless you are really really sharp you just wont know the difference. In China in particular they are producing masses of fake bullion bars, you can even order them. I asked on a freely available website (google is your friend) and got a quote, and a 1kg bar is 550 USD but that is low quality. They are using Gold plated Tungsten!! It is in bullion bars, coins and jewelry, and a jeweler with a pair of scales won't have a clue. Tungsten and Gold are almost identical in terms of density (to three decimal places). when you heavy plate a tungsten bar to the correct specifications, it will weigh precisely the same, it will sound the same if you drop it, it cannot be shown up on x-ray. A good way to check the bars is using a hydraulic pin or needle. This will punch a tiny hole into the bar but not lose the gold. In theory the pin would go straight through a 1kg bar, that is unless you have a bar of tungsten in the middle.

The bars can be engraved to be identical to swiss bank bars, antique bars etc etc. The even bigger scandal is that it is rumoured the fed have been working overtime producing the largest bullion bars of all. These bars sell around $400K each and there are many that are simply tungsten cores coated with around $50K worth of gold. So heavy heavy plate! But a nice return when you are producing a bar for $50500 and selling it for $400k. In the not to distant past (very recent), the US were paying China for something and sent around 400 million in Gold bullion as payment. the Chinese hydraulically tested the gold on arrival and it was the tungsten coated bars!!!! The Chinese quietly refused the shipment and it was quietly flown back to the states. The truth is out there somewhere Scully.....get researching. Any of you with 100g, 500g 1kg bars in your safe or bank boxes really do need to get it checked properly, and x-rays wont work. Coins and rings etc are also being made. They are sold as 'marketing pieces' for display purposes only and 'must not be sold on'...yeah right!

Now off you go, those concerned, your fingers have some research to input Good luck!

It would seem that Gentleman 'Goldfinger' Jim is to gold what GeriatricKid is to every other topic on TV.... our expert in residence.

Aren't we lucky, boys and girls.

Does it leave you feeling inadequate bigbamboo? It may surprise you to know that there are many people on here who's lives and experiences have consisted of much more than sitting in a bar getting pissed all day chain smoking tabs between thumb and index finger, inventing the next excuse as to why their experiences as an ex member of the SAS cannot be told because of the official secrets act. Anyway, if you are about to buy gold bars or coin then by heeding the totally free advice you don't need to be 'lucky'

I can assure you GJ that nothing you say has ever left me feel inadequate in any way!

[hawker9000]

Seems they only detected / proved it was fake when they melted it down, that's a pretty good forgery! The 2 different metals must separate under heat. I wonder how they did it in the first place?

I thought the point about gold is that it has a specific weight? unless the fake bar was much bigger than the real thing.....

...except that gold & tungsten are about the same. I've read that indications on a digital scale will be the same to about 3 decimal places! If what you have is tungsen (or maybe the Chinese are alloying tungsten with something else to get even more precise) clad with gold, it's going to be difficult for the individual average buyer to test (without doing something destructive). I've read the recent counterfeit 1oz coins will pass a 'ring' test, and even a good eye for the engraving. I don't know if the average coin shop selling precious metal coins & bars can afford to have the equipment it takes to tell the difference non-destructively, or not. Plenty of videos about all this (and testing kits) on the web.

'Don't know about this "hydraulic pin" test posters are talking about here. It doesn't sound non-destructive if it's punching a hole, even a small one, into the coin's core. (I mean I realize it doesn't "destroy" the coin. But it sounds like it would mar it, and degrade the overall value, esp if it was bought in fine condition to begin with). Have read some stuff about XRF Analyzers. They apparently costs thousands of dollars (like around $35K); a couple of thousand a month just to rent. And I don't think they "age" well.

[Replogle]

Has anyone even seen or bought clad gold marked as 96.5 pure in Thailand?

[ingvar]

he decided to burn the gold in 3,000 degree celcius heat, and learned that the gold was not pure.

Say what? That's well above the boiling point for gold, it would had vaporized it.

I assume he melted a small part (microscopic) and analysed the gas in a gas chromatograph.

[hawker9000]

he decided to burn the gold in 3,000 degree celcius heat, and learned that the gold was not pure.

Say what? That's well above the boiling point for gold, it would had vaporized it.

I assume he melted a small part (microscopic) and analysed the gas in a gas chromatograph.

'

Again, for gold, not for tungsten, which remains solid at 3000deg C. 'Sounds like that's the tip-off that the specimen was not really gold. And tungsten is what fake gold coins & bars are typically cored with, since its specific weight is very close to gold. (Gold: 19320; Tungsten 19600 kg/cu.m)