Getting an architect or just an engineer?

[Resa]

We have made our own 3D models for our house, we know where we want to put the electric, plumbing and we also know what kind of material we want to use for different parts of the house. Whats the next step?

Could we skip the architect (and save money) and just get an engineer to do the drawings and make sure the proportions of all rooms and load bearing columns are alright?

[cooked]

Architects make mistakes also, one I had gave the job to an apprentice and didn't earn his fee. I am (or was when I had a life) an engineer, we hated architects, best thing is to do as much planning as you can and be on site every day.

[Resa]

Thanks, yes we will be there every day when we start building.

[Khun Jean]

You can get some useful feedback when you post your floorplan and 3d design.

You can not think of everything and getting some unbiased input might be good.

Sometimes changing the direction a door or window opens can make a big difference.

Small things that can be overlooked easily but are obvious for a fresh pair of eyes.

[Resa]

The father of a friend here is a pretty famous Thai architect and he is going to give me feedback. I just dont know what else an architect could add to our project.

The engineer does all the drawings and probably knows a lot about what makes sense in terms of construction right? If someone could explain the differences here a bit more detailed, that would be awesome.

I also read somewhere custom house plans should be signed by a licensed architect and an engineer. Not sure if thats necessary.

[cdmtdm]

imo some architects have good ideas for aesthetics of the building , thats about it , get a good engineer and more importantly a good contractor , if the drawings are not followed correctly your money is wasted ... so dont spend money on an architect you will get more satisfaction telling people you designed the house for free !!! good luck ... during the build ,when it all gets too hard walk away before you blow your stack in front of the const crew !!

[Crossy]

What you need in order to build depends upon what you are building and where.

In Bangkok and the major cities you need drawings from a certified architect/engineer in order to get a building permit. Out in the boonies your 3Ds will probably do.

If you are building in conventional Thai post-and-beam style your contractor should be able to produce shop drawings that will suit. Or, you could adapt one of the free plans here http://www.crossy.co.uk/Thai_House_Plans/index.html if there is something near to what you are doing and save the cost of someone doing it for you. That's what we did to produce this which started life as plan No.27 :

[bbradsby]

There are so many aspects of a design/engineering/pricing/procurement/construction project that a REAL architect is a critical element in getting it Right, the first time. I will not respond to the poster here with a rusty axe to grind against architects in whatever country he used to work - that is, when he had a life... the idea that one would generalize about the entire profession reflects ignorance. Trust me, I've met more than a few 'slow' engineers, but many more bright ones who brought creative energy & expertise to their discipline and my projects. Bu they were doing their thing, and not solving my planning & design, green, roofing & waterproofing, environmental response, natural ventilation & daylighting, and aesthetic solutions with the client.

To understand what an architect brings to your project, large or small, please review the following link: http://howdesignworks.aia.org

...and then YOU decide whether your project, and your capabilities, are such that you can go it alone. Only you can answer that one... Are you a design guru and construction, negotiation & A/E/C team coordination professional and can instantly recognize good/dangerous site conditions, who is also fluent in Thai both written & spoken? Add Laotian if your project is in Issan

This IS the DIY forum, so possibly you are all the above, or don't care about the above considerations, and need nothing more than concrete & steel design - which is all you'll get from an engineer here.

[Resa]

Great answers. Thanks a lot! I ll find a good engineer (and then hopefully a good builder).

Does it make sense to look for an engineer in the area where I build (Chiang Mai) or should it be ok to go for one here in Bangkok?

Do most engineers have the right expertise that they could check on the progress of our building sometimes? In that case working with a guy from Chiang Mai would make a lot more sense of course.

[bankruatsteve]

I don't know what you or others think an "engineer" does with normal house construction but, in my experience (5 houses), I have never even seen an engineer involved. A good architect will have training in the engineering aspects for what he is designing and, unless it's a skyscraper or bridge, etc. what's an engineer going to do? I'm an engineer and even though not my field, I wouldn't bother with house construction.

Crossy and bbradsby have the best advice for you. My advice is: if you don't plan to do much yourself, get a GOOD ARCHITECT do get it done right. Unless it's a small project, then it's going to end up with problems that everyone posts here.

Good luck.

[Greenside]

We are using the same architect for our second project and my brother is an architect also, albeit on the other side of the planet. It's not simply a matter of drawing up plans - a good architect can bring in experience from all sorts of different projects and I would strongly suggest you consider the supervision angle too. Being on site daily is important but when things move fast, you need someone on your side to keep contractors doing what they should and in the right sequence. Our architect also saved about half his fee in helping us source materials and services at better prices than I could have negotiated on my own. I'm in Chiang Mai so if you want more details or to see what we're doing feel free to PM me. The Devil is in the details when it comes to building....

[thaibeachlovers]

What you need in order to build depends upon what you are building and where.

In Bangkok and the major cities you need drawings from a certified architect/engineer in order to get a building permit. Out in the boonies your 3Ds will probably do.

If you are building in conventional Thai post-and-beam style your contractor should be able to produce shop drawings that will suit. Or, you could adapt one of the free plans here http://www.crossy.co.uk/Thai_House_Plans/index.html if there is something near to what you are doing and save the cost of someone doing it for you. That's what we did to produce this which started life as plan No.27 :

1001639_1379049488978037_116312313_n.jpg

Crossy, I'm amazed that a certified anything is required to build in LOS ( other than for large buildings of course.

If that is the case, why are the electrics ( and that's the only thing I can actually see- God knows what the structure is like ) usually so bad?

[bankruatsteve]

What you need in order to build depends upon what you are building and where.

In Bangkok and the major cities you need drawings from a certified architect/engineer in order to get a building permit. Out in the boonies your 3Ds will probably do.

If you are building in conventional Thai post-and-beam style your contractor should be able to produce shop drawings that will suit. Or, you could adapt one of the free plans here http://www.crossy.co.uk/Thai_House_Plans/index.html if there is something near to what you are doing and save the cost of someone doing it for you. That's what we did to produce this which started life as plan No.27 :

1001639_1379049488978037_116312313_n.jpg

Crossy, I'm amazed that a certified anything is required to build in LOS ( other than for large buildings of course.

If that is the case, why are the electrics ( and that's the only thing I can actually see- God knows what the structure is like ) usually so bad?

Doing things "proper" is always the best course. Yes, here in LOS the "rules" change or perhaps abandoned depending on where you live. TIT

[Crossy]

As a non-Thai it's always wise to follow the correct process even though many will say 'not needed'.

Even if you do follow the process it can (and does) go wrong, take our building permit for example.

We used the free government plans as the basis for our build and submitted the unmodified plan to the local planning chap for approval, small payment, a lot of stamping and we had our building permit. I also told the man we would be modifying the roof, his response was that so long as we didn't do anything radical we could build whatever we wanted.

About 6 months into our build we had a brief panic when an official from the local Or Bor Tor office arrived and told the contractor we don't have a building permit. Apparently one of the locals had complained that 'Ban Farang' had not applied for a permit, Dusit (the contractor) called Wifey who promptly stormed to the office with the documentation. Boss Man got a serious ear-holing from my lady, he hadn't made the connection between my wife and the farang house, a serious mistake since my step-son is married to his daughter

An interesting follow up to this incident.

We got our Blue Book once the paint and doors were finished. I got our office lady to translate the address details so I can be sure to get it right for any incoming international mail. She went a step further and translated the whole details page to reveal, "House Type: 1 floor, 2 bedroom, wooden house", huh?

I suspect that anyone even glancing at the house would realise that something is amiss. Further investigation by Wifey showed that our Building Permit also has the same details despite all the attached and certified construction drawings showing a rather larger, 2 floor, concrete structure.

A trip to the local office and more bowing and scraping (from the officials) got the BP and Blue Book amended. Apparently it's actually quite common for the BP to be nothing like what's actually been built and is an easy fix.

But is definitely worth checking that all your documentation is correct as and when you receive it to avoid issues down the road when someone notices that your mansion is described as a 2 room shack.

[krisb]

What you need in order to build depends upon what you are building and where.

 

In Bangkok and the major cities you need drawings from a certified architect/engineer in order to get a building permit. Out in the boonies your 3Ds will probably do.

 

If you are building in conventional Thai post-and-beam style your contractor should be able to produce shop drawings that will suit. Or, you could adapt one of the free plans here http://www.crossy.co.uk/Thai_House_Plans/index.html if there is something near to what you are doing and save the cost of someone doing it for you. That's what we did to produce this which started life as plan No.27 :

 

1001639_1379049488978037_116312313_n.jpg

 

 

Chateaux de Crossy?

You sparkys earn too much!

[Crossy]

Chateaux de Crossy?

You sparkys earn too much!

Yes, that's our home, according to my wife I don't earn enough.

My earnings are about average for my business (no I'm not a jobbing sparks).

[passingas]

In my 30+ years as a general contrator (not just a grunt helper) in the US...we (those of us out in the field, actually putting it all together....) found that most architects don't have a clue as far as the reality of it meshing together and actually being built, and only about half of the engineers...the same. Drawing it all out on paper is one thing....making it happen is quite another. It seems like architects are only interested in how it looks in the end (a good thing). Good luck with it, especailly here in LOS, where if one can do just a wee bit with CAD...then they call themselves....an acrhitect. pg

[krisb]

In my 30+ years as a general contrator (not just a grunt helper) in the US...we (those of us out in the field, actually putting it all together....) found that most architects don't have a clue as far as the reality of it meshing together and actually being built, and only about half of the engineers...the same.  Drawing it all out on paper is one thing....making it happen is quite another.  It seems like architects are only interested in how it looks in the end (a good thing).  Good luck with it, especailly here in LOS, where if one can do just a wee bit with CAD...then they call themselves....an acrhitect.  pg

That's right. Mos architects have no real common sense how to hands on build and wouldn't have a clue what various trades do or if they're doing it right. Engineers are the same. If you want to hire someone in the know you need a building supervisor, a builder. Preferably one that knows how to swing a hammer, not one that did a degree in building only.

Architects seem to think just because you can draw a dog with 6 legs, doesn't mean it can be built. I think their alligator shoes give the game away.