Bangkok: Expat shocked by 'foam-filled' condominium wall

[rametindallas]

I don't think it's unusual to find building rubble inside a cavity wall, and I'm not really sure it's so much of a quality issue.

Assuming the actual wall is OK, and that the interior gypsum is OK, it's just an annoyance really.

Thailand does not build 'cavity walls'. The U.S. does not build cavity walls with concrete; only wood frame construction has 'cavity walls'. The thickness of the walls is carefully engineered to support 'X' load. This calculation is based on the wall being entirely composed of a certain strength of pure concrete with suitable steel reinforcing bars (rebar). Ask any first year engineering student if you don't believe me. Just because the interior gypsum is OK does not mean the wall has strength. If the building falls down, will you call that an annoyance? These are the kind of loose building controls that happen in India, Pakistan, Egypt, etc. Do you really want to add Thailand to that list?

[Briandajew]

Thai Thermalite!

[Artisi]

QC and QA - come on people, we are talking about Thailand, aren't we?

[rametindallas]

why don't they have a building code like in australia

I have just had a house built and we are not happy with some of the krap that has gone on

building started off really great then hit a brickwall so to speak...we wanted qblocks(hebel) but got concrete instead

wanted plasterboard on inside walls but got render ...and the list just goes on and on

will be doing article in pantip if this is the way to blame and shame builders...we will name them and ...can't be sued if it is the truith

Sorry to tell you, but you can be sued in Thailand for telling the truth. You will be in court for years and spend lots of money and, after all that, you will eventually win your case. Is it worth it. When Dr. Thaksin was PM he sued reporters for writing the truth on a weekly basis. He could bankrupt you in court costs and if you do not run out of money first, you would win. My advise to anyone wanting to tell the truth publicly in Thailand is to marry a woman whose brother is a lawyer who like you and you also need deep pockets.

[tominbkk]

When we were having our house built, we had our own inspectors come out every 4-5 days to see what was up. Kept everyone honest!

[MyFriend You]

Polystyrene can be used in wall cavities if constructed correctly. However in this case they probably should have used brick.

Why?? so it can give off Noxious fumes that will incpacitate anyone rying to get out of a burning apartment?? I wouldn't want you to do my interior house work..........I would be just waiting for the . fiberglass insulation is the only way to go.

[Sung Ham]

Showed this to a Thai and they said 'Som Nam Na'.

In fairness though that Thai isn't shy about voicing their bitterness and hate of farangs.

[rametindallas]

Rumor on facebook is saying the development is part of the Shin family business.

Facts show that Sansiri is a public company. Did you make an effort to see who the major shareholders were, before spreading an unsubstantiated rumour?

Would it have killed you to go and look at who the directors are of the company?

Please tell who of these major shareholders holds the controlling interest for the "Shin family business".

http://www.sansiri.com/en/investor/major.aspx

Thailand, the hub of nominees. Nominees are to disguise the true ownership. Dr. Thaksin hid his assets with his maid and chauffeur when he first ran for office. Don't believe everything you read.

[bigbamboo]

Discovering the foam inside the wall is scary enough.

Just hope no one find the words 'LEGO' on the bricks.

Edited September 2, 2013 by bigbamboo

[rametindallas]

Styrofoam is commonly used as a thermal insulator in wall cavities and as a sound deadener in walls and ceiling cavities in multistorey buildings in Australia, however it's strictly non structural/no load bearing.

The article doesn't say if it was bearing a load or just in the cavity.

Maybe they rushed the job, didn't put in the extra leaf of brickwork and skimmed over the styrofoam with cement render?

Usually large multistorey condos have few load bearing walls internally, the main "frame" is reinforced pre-stressed concrete beams between external concrete posts with internal elevator/service shafts . The dividing walls are just light brick or steel frame.

Without more detail, it's hard to work out what went on there.

Polystyrene can be used in wall cavities if constructed correctly. However in this case they probably should have used brick.

I beg to differ. In an all concrete building, all walls are load bearing. Only steel frame construction with curtain walls do not need internal load bearing walls. Because of my extensive experience in both home construction and commercial (hotel, hospital, and condominium) I take a keen interest in ongoing construction sites in Bangkok. These condos are all concrete and are not supported by a network of steel piers and beams. Every interior wall is integral to the strength of the entire building. These walls may be brick or steel reinforced concrete, depending on the overall height. Taller building must have steel reinforced concrete. Foam is a cheap filler and used to cut corners and is unsafe. No getting around this being shoddy construction.

[mania]

I beg to differ. In an all concrete building, all walls are load bearing.

Sorry that is not true afaik but perhaps our terminology differs? Or I misunderstand your intent?

One can see how they build. They can construct basically the whole condo & add brick later only as shelter & perhaps

in some cases as shear but they are not "all" load bearing by the definition I think of when saying a wall is load bearing.

If they were "all" load bearing they would need to complete the lower load bearing wall/brick work

before going up to the next floor. Otherwise how is it bearing the load of many more floors being built

above it before enclosing the exterior walls?

Yes of course it is steel reinforced concrete & you see the forms

as they form up with the columns & tie beams

Because they are using a skeletal or column & beam if you will style of building.

The loads are spread by the tie beams & not carried by the exterior walls

You could not go up like this if the walls which you see are not there

yet were "all" load bearing as it would not stand

Edited September 2, 2013 by mania

[Sung Ham]

Why aren't all the walls made of foam and why are Sansiri apologizing and blacklisting the contractor if it's all the norm and makes no difference?

[Maigret]

The stories I could tell regarding another "prestigious" Thai Developer called Pace Development. These developers go out of their way to hire the worst contractors and then feign ignorance and shock when confronted with the shoddy realities of their choices. The quality control function at these companies are comical and downright worthless!

[Sailingbum1]

Polystyrene can be used in wall cavities if constructed correctly. However in this case they probably should have used brick.

Styro-foam sheets as pictured is a commonand effective insulation Most building codes alloW and is more effective thne fiberglass roles.. It is not structural. There is a polystyrene building block material . Very expensive that is structural and will stand up to typhoon strength winds.

This looks like rofing insulation. LET's SEE WHAT THE BUILDING INSPECTOR SAYS before the Thai bashing begins.

[Sailingbum1]

I hear the Japanese live in paper houses. A step up to be sure.

[BarryM]

My condo windows leaked in Pattaya, despite the promise of german "engineering"

Investigation found they were installed with newspaper to keep them level

The roof leaked, the wiring was condemned bu the bangkok surveyor, actually the whole build was a joke- even the bangkok survey team laughed.

This is thailand. You farang you pay or shut up

[ratcatcher]

′The Best′ building materials.

With a company like Sansiri, you would think there would be some quality assurance given the price points of their condos.

The actual name of the condominium in question is "The Base"

http://www.sansiri.com/condominium/thebase_parkeast_sukhumvit77/en/fact-sheet.aspx

[Thai at Heart]

′The Best′ building materials.

With a company like Sansiri, you would think there would be some quality assurance given the price points of their condos.

The actual name of the condominium in question is "The Base"

http://www.sansiri.com/condominium/thebase_parkeast_sukhumvit77/en/fact-sheet.aspx

Must be fun getting there by taxi.

Bed, best, base, bet, bait,

[hellodolly]

Rumor on facebook is saying the development is part of the Shin family business.

Well it is in line with their government policy. Fill your pockets and dam_n the consequences.

Yeah...no one else in Thailand ever did nor ever will do it. Just Thaksin and the PT!

Sorry about that but I just double checked and I am rite. Well it is in line with their government policy. Fill your pockets and dam_n the consequences

What has that got to do with other companies. Are you one of those who says well they did it so it is OK for me.

I just replied to the post about a rumor on facebook.

[ozyjon]

Is this a new building technique of uniqueness only to Thailand,, and in the future we can get a jumping castle,, cement render the walls and call it a palace fit for a wealthy king, what next have we seen it all, i don't think so,,,,

[flyingdoc]

I agree with Jeeze that foam insulation can be used in cavity walls, but this is clearly not the case here. Lucky this was the only apartment found to be defective, or is the only one detected so far ?

[growe237]

We used to Dream of living in a foam filled condo!

The best skit Monty Python ever did!

[bangkokpoppys]

And I'll huff, and I'll puff......

[rametindallas]

I beg to differ. In an all concrete building, all walls are load bearing.

Sorry that is not true afaik but perhaps our terminology differs? Or I misunderstand your intent?

One can see how they build. They can construct basically the whole condo & add brick later only as shelter & perhaps

in some cases as shear but they are not "all" load bearing by the definition I think of when saying a wall is load bearing.

If they were "all" load bearing they would need to complete the lower load bearing wall/brick work

before going up to the next floor. Otherwise how is it bearing the load of many more floors being built

above it before enclosing the exterior walls?

Yes of course it is steel reinforced concrete & you see the forms

as they form up with the columns & tie beams

Because they are using a skeletal or column & beam if you will style of building.

The loads are spread by the tie beams & not carried by the exterior walls

You could not go up like this if the walls which you see are not there

yet were "all" load bearing as it would not stand

Your photo is 'pier and beam' and there are no load bearing walls, The condos I have helped build were built with no piers or beams to create as much inside space as possible (2-19 story and one 21 story and only limited in height because we were under the flight path of a large airport). Also to keep the floor plan as open as possible, minimum number of walls were used so that each wall was load bearing. If the wall in the OP were just a partition or outside 'curtain' wall, the only problem would be the foam is flammable and gives off poisonous fumes when it burns; think of the Santika Night Club fire. In any case, foam is unacceptable in a residential construction wall.

[Soutpeel]

Styrofoam is commonly used as a thermal insulator in wall cavities and as a sound deadener in walls and ceiling cavities in multistorey buildings in Australia, however it's strictly non structural/no load bearing.

The article doesn't say if it was bearing a load or just in the cavity.

Maybe they rushed the job, didn't put in the extra leaf of brickwork and skimmed over the styrofoam with cement render?

Usually large multistorey condos have few load bearing walls internally, the main "frame" is reinforced pre-stressed concrete beams between external concrete posts with internal elevator/service shafts . The dividing walls are just light brick or steel frame.

Without more detail, it's hard to work out what went on there.

Polystyrene can be used in wall cavities if constructed correctly. However in this case they probably should have used brick.

I beg to differ. In an all concrete building, all walls are load bearing. Only steel frame construction with curtain walls do not need internal load bearing walls. Because of my extensive experience in both home construction and commercial (hotel, hospital, and condominium) I take a keen interest in ongoing construction sites in Bangkok. These condos are all concrete and are not supported by a network of steel piers and beams. Every interior wall is integral to the strength of the entire building. These walls may be brick or steel reinforced concrete, depending on the overall height. Taller building must have steel reinforced concrete. Foam is a cheap filler and used to cut corners and is unsafe. No getting around this being shoddy construction.

I beg to differ..A typical construction method in Thailand is RC beam and column and the brick walls built in between the column's are what is know as an "in-fill panel"..these in fill panels only carry their own weight or the weight of doors, windows etc...the RC carries the structural loading.

[Sung Ham]

The stories I could tell regarding another "prestigious" Thai Developer called Pace Development. These developers go out of their way to hire the worst contractors and then feign ignorance and shock when confronted with the shoddy realities of their choices. The quality control function at these companies are comical and downright worthless!

There's a gruesome thread on another Thai forum about a 4.2m baht house being built. Foundations and base included paper bags and plastic in the cement (a different type of cement to that promised in the contract).

1m baht paid and wasted as the initial foundation and pillars built would not have been safe to use.

Live and learn in Thailand.

Forget the name of the developer, but it's on another Thai forum that is more centered on the building trade (or was, at least).

Edited September 3, 2013 by Sung Ham

[navara]

At first the construction wasn't that good, so the original bricks fall out. The repair was done by some amateur, probably no real construction repairman had time to do so. The condo had to be rented.... It isn't "new" for the farang guy, because in the west, we liked to use newspaper and plaster to repair such holes. Nothing to worry about, simply get the right worker.

[Sailingbum1]

Why aren't all the walls made of foam and why are Sansiri apologizing and blacklisting the contractor if it's all the norm and makes no difference?

Just a knee jerk reaction to the publicity and a lack of knowledge buildin technics and codes.. Nw. Styrofoam GOOD insulation. esphestis bad.

[Sailingbum1]

At first the construction wasn't that good, so the original bricks fall out. The repair was done by some amateur, probably no real construction repairman had time to do so. The condo had to be rented.... It isn't "new" for the farang guy, because in the west, we liked to use newspaper and plaster to repair such holes. Nothing to worry about, simply get the right worker.

Exactly it is a nne load bearinf space covered up fo cosmetic reasons. They were kind enough to fill in the space with foam panel sections. This would avid numerous problems that culd be caused by a large open cavity. It ain't no thing

[chooka]

I agree with Jeeze that foam insulation can be used in cavity walls, but this is clearly not the case here. Lucky this was the only apartment found to be defective, or is the only one detected so far ?

More pics here.

Apparently many thais are just as disgusted with this company as T.V members are.

http://www.stock2morrow.com/showthread.php?t=49395