Bangkok: Expat shocked by 'foam-filled' condominium wall

[moe666]

At least it didn't collapse like they do in india

[trainman34014]

Not so much of a 'shock' really is it in this country. It's all in a days experience if you understand 'Thainess'.

[moe666]

Years ago they were building a major highway in New Mexico after the inspectors left the contractor would remove the rebar to the next section of highway and then pour the section inspected. He was finally caught.

[Robby nz]

On a project the size of a condo there must be an architect or project manager employed to be in charge and they should have an office on site with a member of the management team there every day.

Something that size can not just be allowed to be left to a contractor or subby, there must be constant supervision if the company who is building these things wants to gain or keep a good reputation.

There must also be original plans around somewhere, they surely would have to have been submitted with specifications and site plan to some authority in order to get permission to build.

Now would be a good time for the relevant authority ( if there is any honest people there) to check to see if the thing is built to the original plans and specs, that should have been done before the thing was signed off but well..... money could have talked.

I subcontracted to the building trade for many years so have some idea of how things should work.

[ginjag]

We live in a Sansiri house now for 8 years. Superficially all looks very good, but beneath the surface we have problems that stem from substandard construction. One only finds them, when a little repair is needed, or something goes wrong.

I found wood used in parts of the roof where there should be steel, I found electric switches wrongly wired, plumbing issues, terraces going down, low quality materials as it turned out etc.etc.

Of course all that starts to surface after warranty period is over...

We have decided the next time we buy a house, we built it ourselfs.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

RENT/LEASE you guys, I built 2 places here and had problems, had to be around 24/7 staff here are IFFY to say the least.

At least with rent you have choices to stay or walk away, and that can be as good as a rest.

I bought a condo to visit when I wish, or for visiting friends, this place was an older building but well established over 20 years. but RENT my bungalow, the best thing I ever did was sell my houses.

[gemini81]

On a project the size of a condo there must be an architect or project manager employed to be in charge and they should have an office on site with a member of the management team there every day.

Something that size can not just be allowed to be left to a contractor or subby, there must be constant supervision if the company who is building these things wants to gain or keep a good reputation.

There must also be original plans around somewhere, they surely would have to have been submitted with specifications and site plan to some authority in order to get permission to build.

Now would be a good time for the relevant authority ( if there is any honest people there) to check to see if the thing is built to the original plans and specs, that should have been done before the thing was signed off but well..... money could have talked.

I subcontracted to the building trade for many years so have some idea of how things should work.

Sansiri's site visits by inspectors had to have revealed it; I am sure they knew darn well.

[asdecas]

It's when they add illegal floors on top of your building that you really have to start worrying: http://www.nytimes.com/1993/08/15/world/death-toll-rises-to-88-in-thailand-hotel-collapse.html

[PoorSucker]

Remember the secret hotel room meeting at the Four Seasons Hotel last year.

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra (left) and Sansiri president Srettha Thavisin

[technologybytes]

I don't think it's unusual to find building rubble inside a cavity wall, and I'm not really sure it's so much of a quality issue.

Assuming the actual wall is OK, and that the interior gypsum is OK, it's just an annoyance really.

[Docno]

Rumor on facebook is saying the development is part of the Shin family business.

Yep, right, Thaksin must be behind everything bad and corrupt in Thailand. Looks like the Bogeyman is out of a job...

[hellodolly]

Rumor on facebook is saying the development is part of the Shin family business.

Well it is in line with their government policy. Fill your pockets and damn the consequences.

[samuibruno]

We live in a Sansiri house now for 8 years. Superficially all looks very good, but beneath the surface we have problems that stem from substandard construction. One only finds them, when a little repair is needed, or something goes wrong.

I found wood used in parts of the roof where there should be steel, I found electric switches wrongly wired, plumbing issues, terraces going down, low quality materials as it turned out etc.etc.

Of course all that starts to surface after warranty period is over...

We have decided the next time we buy a house, we built it ourselfs.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

if you have been around construction in thailand you will know that this is normal practice

theres very little in the way of qualified building inspectors /project managers to look after these things

as for the original post theres nothing said about how the actual problem is going to be resolved?

just blacklist the contractor?????[that will work]

nothing like

ok we will get some qualified people in to rectify the problem, thanks for pointing this out , and we will try to fix it in the future

normal construction procedure in thailand is to take the money and never return

ive built many houses here and oversee them all myself

would never buy a finished property without watching the construction

[charmonman]

I have been asked many times over the years, why I didn't buy a condominium in Bangkok given the amount of time I spend there.

This answers the question. There is simply no way to be sure of the quality of what you are buying.

[hellodolly]

it is a very well run company

Based on this story apparently not, irrespetive of who the subcontractor is...this company is accountable for the actions of their subby's, and obviouly there is no effective QC or QA by the development company, if there is foam in the wall, what other short cuts have been taken ?

One or a number incidents like this does not mean it is poorly run. Every company in the world has issues with service, but if they take the appropriate measures to remedy and the appropriate measures to reduce the instances of problems for me it is sign of a good company. It is physically impossible to oversee every second of work of every subby. The very fact that one of the most senior persons in the company is straight away facing up to the issue and not hiding again is a good sign. However i do note his comment regarding that unit being the only one was a bit stupid, but that is just corporate PR. Either way, they are a very successful company and very well thought of by the Thai buyers, so that in itself shows me that whatever they are doing they are doing successfully.

Perhaps all of the units have the same wall filling but this is the only one leaking water. Not exactly sure what the problem would be if they were not leaking water. Would not the sound insulation be good.

Not being an expert on building practices it seems to me it would be hard to construct a condo building out of concrete except for one unit.

[johnefallis]

it is a very well run company

Based on this story apparently not, irrespetive of who the subcontractor is...this company is accountable for the actions of their subby's, and obviouly there is no effective QC or QA by the development company, if there is foam in the wall, what other short cuts have been taken ?

One or a number incidents like this does not mean it is poorly run. Every company in the world has issues with service, but if they take the appropriate measures to remedy and the appropriate measures to reduce the instances of problems for me it is sign of a good company. It is physically impossible to oversee every second of work of every subby. The very fact that one of the most senior persons in the company is straight away facing up to the issue and not hiding again is a good sign. However i do note his comment regarding that unit being the only one was a bit stupid, but that is just corporate PR. Either way, they are a very successful company and very well thought of by the Thai buyers, so that in itself shows me that whatever they are doing they are doing successfully.

See, not everybody that comments on Thaivisa is stupid...

[o2eZy]

why don't they have a building code like in australia

I have just had a house built and we are not happy with some of the krap that has gone on

building started off really great then hit a brickwall so to speak...we wanted qblocks(hebel) but got concrete instead

wanted plasterboard on inside walls but got render ...and the list just goes on and on

will be doing article in pantip if this is the way to blame and shame builders...we will name them and ...can't be sued if it is the truith

[bangarang]

′The Best′ building materials.

With a company like Sansiri, you would think there would be some quality assurance given the price points of their condos.

[Chazchallenger]

And he huffed and he puffed and he blew the house down

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

Mr. Uthai Uthaisaengsuk, Managing Director of the prestigious property group, insisted that his company had investigated the case and said that Mr. Houston′s room was the only room facing the problem.

Did they check every single room or were they aware of where the building rubbish was being hidden to cut costs. I will make sure I blacklist this company who build foam and paper buildings.

i personally have never blacklisted anything nor made an authoritative statement to that effect preferring rather to just withdraw my custom.

Because of my inexperience with "blacklisting", and because your blacklisting seems to carry so much weight, i must ask you how many major construction projects you undertake per year that the mere threat of your blacklist has contractors shaking in their boots?

[hellodolly]

On a project the size of a condo there must be an architect or project manager employed to be in charge and they should have an office on site with a member of the management team there every day.

Something that size can not just be allowed to be left to a contractor or subby, there must be constant supervision if the company who is building these things wants to gain or keep a good reputation.

There must also be original plans around somewhere, they surely would have to have been submitted with specifications and site plan to some authority in order to get permission to build.

Now would be a good time for the relevant authority ( if there is any honest people there) to check to see if the thing is built to the original plans and specs, that should have been done before the thing was signed off but well..... money could have talked.

I subcontracted to the building trade for many years so have some idea of how things should work.

As you say you have some idea of how things should work.

I am very sure you have some idea of how things really work.

In the 80s Vancouver B C Canada had apartment buildings and condos going up every place you looked that later turned out to leek water.

In the 70s when I first got into the construction trade in Seattle I talked to a carpenter who worked for a reputable company. His job was to follow along behind subcontractor framers. He said the amount of nails he had to hammer in was amazing they would only use one nail instead of two.

In Canada one of my favorite shows was Holmes on Holmes. He went into houses where subcontractors had made a mess and fixed them properly. It was amazing the amount of cheap shoddy work they had to replace.

Am I surprised to hear some thing was not rite here in Thailand. NO

Did any one here look up that Pantip.com I did and it was 97% Thai.

[meatboy]

We live in a Sansiri house now for 8 years. Superficially all looks very good, but beneath the surface we have problems that stem from substandard construction. One only finds them, when a little repair is needed, or something goes wrong.

I found wood used in parts of the roof where there should be steel, I found electric switches wrongly wired, plumbing issues, terraces going down, low quality materials as it turned out etc.etc.

Of course all that starts to surface after warranty period is over...

We have decided the next time we buy a house, we built it ourselfs.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

we had ours built 4yrs.ago not by sansiri,4.5mill.bht. electric not earthed,doors not hung properly,we are just having all the windows and doors changed[the wood is going rotten] and as we have a large plot and was one of the last to be built the garden you cant dig a hole its full of concrete mix,broken tiles,plastic and cement bags.you only get a one yr.warranty,yet the paint is supposed to last 10yrs.its due for its 3 repaint in nov.oh and when we have the termite people in to spray under the house we end up with half of the mixture in the tiolet/shower room.

[habfan]

We used to Dream of living in a foam filled condo!

Foam filled condo. Luxury!

[MK1]

RTH maybe within their legal rights and scope of works if they have documentation to prove they were not to be held responsible and instructed to proceed on.

Mr. Houston, could also held accountable for revealing this issue by not following due legal process. Moreover, there is virtually no Building code or Standards in Thailand so you have to wonder how he can prove the foam, should not have been there, even though we all know it’s not right?

[GuestHouse]

Has the Prestigious Property Group taken legal action against Mr Houston yet?

[Halion]

it is a very well run company

Based on this story apparently not, irrespetive of who the subcontractor is...this company is accountable for the actions of their subby's, and obviouly there is no effective QC or QA by the development company, if there is foam in the wall, what other short cuts have been taken ?

One or a number incidents like this does not mean it is poorly run. Every company in the world has issues with service, but if they take the appropriate measures to remedy and the appropriate measures to reduce the instances of problems for me it is sign of a good company. It is physically impossible to oversee every second of work of every subby. The very fact that one of the most senior persons in the company is straight away facing up to the issue and not hiding again is a good sign. However i do note his comment regarding that unit being the only one was a bit stupid, but that is just corporate PR. Either way, they are a very successful company and very well thought of by the Thai buyers, so that in itself shows me that whatever they are doing they are doing successfully.

From a QA/QC standpoint the majority of local company's view supervision and quality control as an incumbance in profitability. Good PR rhetoric would have been an undretaking to review other units that were constructed by the same sub contractor along with a promise to make good on any substandard work. The arms lenght small sub contracor is a standard ploy by these company's in order to cut costs and avoid blame for negligent work. Bullshit like this is an everyday occurance in Thailand and regardless of how they are thought of by the Thai buyers they are by no stretch of the immagination compotent or good and the only thing I see them doing succesfully is enhancing profitabiity and dodging the bullet.

[Antathome]

We used to Dream of living in a foam filled condo!

And if you tell the young people that today, they won't believe you!!! :-)

[DeepSea]

We live in a Sansiri house now for 8 years. Superficially all looks very good, but beneath the surface we have problems that stem from substandard construction. One only finds them, when a little repair is needed, or something goes wrong.

I found wood used in parts of the roof where there should be steel, I found electric switches wrongly wired, plumbing issues, terraces going down, low quality materials as it turned out etc.etc.

Of course all that starts to surface after warranty period is over...

We have decided the next time we buy a house, we built it ourselfs.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

*Important Information for Housebuyers in the ABAC Bang Phli Area*

As this thread is getting sidewide attention at the moment, I'd like to bring the following to the attention of any Expats who are currently looking at buying a new house close to ABAC university in Bang Phli (Bang Bo)... and also Mr. Uthai Uthaisaengsuk at Sansiri if he happens to read this post (yeah right...).

My office relocated to Bang Phli a couple of years ago, and I began renting a house here (if you look on Google Maps, the road which runs past ABAC university is called 'Rural Road Samut Prakan 2003' )

I live in a small housing community at the end of that road (well it was at the end of the road a couple of years ago, but the road seems to be getting longer). Since that time, property development has exploded in this area, with condos and housing projects popping up all over the place. The road has been destroyed by the hundreds of double trailers hauling fill which travel back and forth along this road every day (another issue is the degree to which the existing infrastructure is able to support the massive growth in traffic resulting from all of this additional property).

To my point; Sansiri have just completed buidling a few acres of housing further along the road from me. I exercise by running along this road everday and I can report that 4 months ago, this was swamp land (still is in fact, including the surrounding area). I watched day by day, as they bermed and drained the land, cleared it, then brought in truck after truck, after truck of fill. After letting all that fill settle for a mammoth month or six weeks, they merrily began building houses and now there they sit, shiny and new waiting for their new owners to roll up.

Swampland is swampland after all, whether you throw a bunch of dirt on top of it or not. I understand that non-ethical business practice and **cking your customers are the norm in Thailand, but I'm sure Mr. Uthai Uthaisaengsuk wont have any issues with paying for the repairs required to fix the never ending list of problems they will experience once subsidence begins in earnest. My advice to any would be Expat buyer would be to steer a very wide course around this place.

Regards...

[YeaBiGgiEs]

Well I guess foam is better than finding a body in the wall

[mmushr00m]

When I was in BKK a few months back, the missus and I looked at a Sansiri condo (its next to a BTS station and a hotel).

Since it was a Sansiri it looked very nice, beautiful amenities, landscaping, lobby etc and of course the price to go with it.

The unit I looked at was on the 25th floor, I looked up at a corner and saw water damage. Not a good sign on a brand new condo, especially not on the 25th floor. I was told that they will repaint that ceiling area and its a quick easy fix.

I am no engineer but I doubt water damage, coming in from the outside on a 25th floor, is an easy fix.

I pity the person who buys/bought that unit.

Edited September 2, 2013 by mmushr00m

[Time Traveller]

The only thing surprising with this story is that it made it into the media. My wife and I had a complaint against another well know large property company, and presented them with an engineers report about cracks in load bearing pillars and the walls. The company's answer was that it was too long after the construction had been completed for them to offer any compensation.

This story is just the tip of the iceberg of incompetent and dangerous building construction in this country. Unless you're prepared to supervise the entire construction yourself there is no guarantee that anything you buy is safe and meets proper building standards.