The Chinese......Another View.

[LawrenceChee]

The topic was a good discussion till you joined in...your extreme views and opinions seem to mirror the fenqing except you probably don't eat congee for brekkie and can't speak a word of mandarin.

Again the fenqing group is a small minority and you can find this anywhere in the world including the USA if you go to the right places

Did you repeat you hate china this much to their face while they were using the "f" word ...must have got you a free badaling Great Wall tour....

The fenqing are the extreme and militant representatives of the view of the general population as daily propagandized and indoctrinated by the CCP.

Your soft soaping approach doesn't change the fact.

In your little world ...seems only the Chinese is bad or has a militant arm...silly really. Every country has them and the majority of the population ignores them or think they are silly to overdo the patriot card.

Soft Soaping ? my respect for elders as taught by my Chinese family (even for bigots) dictates I bite my tongue rather than say something foolish to hurt your fingers from typing.

For your own generations ahead of you, you would be better served if there were more moderates within the CCP who can easily fend off a western supremacy thinking process by some and again loo at the bigger picture of trade

On the meantime for yourself , have a look around your house and start a bonfire in your yard for anything made in china ...you hate the country, the culture and people so much ...

surely you won't be a cheap Charlie and bought something MIA ...that would be a disgrace to everything you posted on this topic and the others where you openly bash China and is race

The least you could do is to pay all the import taxes and make sure our house is filled with western goods and its superior innovation

Wonder what phone or computer u use for TV ...you may have to burn it too

Don't presume to accuse me of hate.

I'm reacting to the highly objectionable views, attitudes and state of mind I encountered first hand while spending an appreciable time in the CCP-PRC with and among many PRChinese I got to know and spend a lot of time with.

The revelations over time of the Chinese character, traits, attitudes and mindset - not to mention their expectation of violent world conquest as their rightful purpose and end goal - has given me a firm and tough minded reaction to the insanity of a people who have been closed to the world culturally and intellectually for many millennia.

The Chinese always have lived life in their own minds, never in the actual and real world. This has made them detached and not in contact with reality. And I have seen the consequence, i.e., in the present world of nuclear, chemical, biological weapons of mass destruction, the CCP Chinese are dangerous in the extreme.

Hahahahah remind me again about TSA / CBP and how they treat the aliens who visit when they land :-) seems to got your descrip here.

[harrry]

@Publicus, your post #200, Superb Sir.

Every Chinese apologist should read that and weep

I am beginning to think that we would need a very very wide table but what a night. If a night like that could be organised somewhere in Chianmai please make sure it is wheelchair accessible so that if my health permits I could come. Hint Hint Lawrence.

I would enjoy that too Harrry and I know the very place. If our CM colleagues would like to join us for an evening that would be a real pleasure.

Be a pleasure to organize it for the CM colleagues next week after I'm back and it will be wheel chair accessible (blast that knocks the Fujian off for dimsum)

The blether would help for a suggestion ...be a real pleasure to meet some of the members here to talk about our views on china without throwing pots or statues :-)

Please let me know by PM in advance as if I can come I will have to try to arrange for my wifes girlfriend to drive us down and arange to get the room in the hotel I can stay in as my wife cannot drive and she does not like me driving much in case I get sick. I think she is too protective but it is good to have someone who really cares,

[theblether]

I fly out on October 3rd Harrry, arrange a date with Lawrence prior to that and I will be there. I'll also verify where I have in my mind is wheelchair friendly.

@Onionluke, that young lady is fantastic, very funny.

[OldChinaHam]

Iowa, UK.

Edited by Publicus, 55 minutes ago.

Iowa, USA, is a great town with many educated farmers, who also deal daily millions of dollars of important products in places like China.

The people there are probably less biased by their views than most.

They are open and friendly people.

I am sure that Iowa, UK is just the same,

But they do not deal in corn, except maybe the corn liquor?

And they do not export to Beijing as much as does Iowa USA.

[Publicus]

Chee's soft soaping dried up so now he's trying his hand at sad and sorry attempts to ridicule.

This is getting more revealing all the time.

[Publicus]

I fly out on October 3rd Harrry, arrange a date with Lawrence prior to that and I will be there. I'll also verify where I have in my mind is wheelchair friendly.

@Onionluke, that young lady is fantastic, very funny.

I love her .

What's that Elvis song, "One night with you."

[SinglePot]

I fly out on October 3rd Harrry, arrange a date with Lawrence prior to that and I will be there. I'll also verify where I have in my mind is wheelchair friendly.

@Onionluke, that young lady is fantastic, very funny.

On the contrary...I find here artificial and cold.

[SinglePot]

And if there is no throwing of statues and pots allowed what precisely is on the agenda for a discussion about China in a restaurant in Chiang Mai?

[OldChinaHam]

No problem Harrry, it didn't affect my reply.

If I can interject on behalf of SP for a moment. I can verify that SP is eminently qualified to participate in this debate, he is a China hand and his role over the last while has brought him into a contact with a rough element of the Chinese character.

We have both clocked a disturbing pattern in the Chinese psyche which bodes ill for us all.

However in saying that, I do agree with OCH that at heart we are just interested in our next meal and our next kiss. If only our common humanity could side step this unnecessary Nationalism and Patriotism on all sides that causes conflict where none should exist.

In saying that, I'm still a bit pissed off that the Emperor said that my Great Great Granny was a Barbarian. Bloody cheek that was.

By rough element, do you mean the Leather Jacket wearing 20 to 30 year olds, with sunglasses, that work for the local governments in China as enforcers protect the interests of the elite?

These are the ones that any journalist might come into conflict with most often.

And, they really are tough, and unreasonable, and closed minded.

But they are paid to be this way, and they are also kind of drunk on power.

Most people in China, though, are just your average type that you also see anywhere else.

Nationalism is often stirred up by the Government as we talked about above.

And it IS TRUE that people in China have a very poor idea of history, and you will not find very many who even know about events of 1989, which is shocking.

The sooner they change governments, the better.

I am just waiting for this to happen,

Because I really cannot tolerate living very long stretches in China when it feels so oppressive due to the lack of freedoms.

Some visitors to China, and employees who travel to work their for multinational companies are able to adjust to living under the authoritarian government there.

Sometimes they get locked up and pay a heavy price.

I do not like it when these nationalistic youths burn down my Japanese restaurants much, either.

Or attack French Hypermarkets.

[SinglePot]

Iowa, UK.

Edited by Publicus, 55 minutes ago.

Iowa, USA, is a great town with many educated farmers, who also deal daily millions of dollars of important products in places like China.

The people there are probably less biased by their views than most.

They are open and friendly people.

I am sure that Iowa, UK is just the same,

But they do not deal in corn, except maybe the corn liquor?

And they do not export to Beijing as much as does Iowa USA.

You didn't get it first time round, so here it is again.

I don't come from Iowa, and I don't like Beijing called a liar.

Freudian.

So wrap up the crap talk about ME.

[LawrenceChee]

I fly out on October 3rd Harrry, arrange a date with Lawrence prior to that and I will be there. I'll also verify where I have in my mind is wheelchair friendly.

@Onionluke, that young lady is fantastic, very funny.

Heya Harrry tried to pm you but the feature seems to be down for my app at the moment. Could you try ?

Any date before October 3rd works for me as well . Thursday and Fridays are better as I have no domestic obligations

[caykay]

Your best Chinese friend sounds like a <deleted>

[harrry]

And if there is no throwing of statues and pots allowed what precisely is on the agenda for a discussion about China in a restaurant in Chiang Mai?

Having heard theblether in his post saying he was looking forward to his next kiss I would be more worried about him...I have heard all about Glasgow kisses........Not that there was anything wrong with that Bonnie lass from Dunoon and her kisses....but that was many many moons ago...Or should I say many braw bricht moonlit nights langsaen.

Edited September 8, 2013 by harrry

[harrry]

I fly out on October 3rd Harrry, arrange a date with Lawrence prior to that and I will be there. I'll also verify where I have in my mind is wheelchair friendly.

@Onionluke, that young lady is fantastic, very funny.

Heya Harrry tried to pm you but the feature seems to be down for my app at the moment. Could you try ?

Any date before October 3rd works for me as well . Thursday and Fridays are better as I have no domestic obligations

My wife is asleep at the moment so I will have to PM you after talking to her in the morning and her friend if she will drive my car down again. I am really looking forward to it though I know little about China.

[SinglePot]

And while you old guys are cosying up in a restaurant in Chiang Mai intellectualising about the virtues of China, a delightful couple in Beijing who love the Chinese dream of shopping malls, counterfeit Gucci handbags and McDonalds are planning their state owned only child.

Make sure you use the chopsticks the Japanese way.

[OldChinaHam]

Iowa, UK.

Edited by Publicus, 55 minutes ago.

Iowa, USA, is a great town with many educated farmers, who also deal daily millions of dollars of important products in places like China.

The people there are probably less biased by their views than most.

They are open and friendly people.

I am sure that Iowa, UK is just the same,

But they do not deal in corn, except maybe the corn liquor?

And they do not export to Beijing as much as does Iowa USA.

You didn't get it first time round, so here it is again.

I don't come from Iowa, and I don't like Beijing called a liar.

Freudian.

So wrap up the crap talk about ME.

I can understand that.

But, as for me, I do not mind being called a liar, just a different point of view probably.

I think I get it though. You do not come from Iowa.

Got it.

[snake24]

The thread has been very interesting to read, and many of the contributions have been insightful and revealing. Unfortunately a couple of members have posted in regards to racism and to be brutal about it, they have humiliated themselves.

The entire cause of the downfall of China from it's preeminent and dominant World position was Nationalism and Racism.

King George III sent an emissary to the Imperial Court to request that China consider trading with the West. What happened next is one of the most appalling misjudgments in human history.

The Emissary requested an audience. For two whole years negotiations took place as to the court protocol. It began with a demand that the Emissary should prostrate himself in front of the Emperor and crawl towards him. There was no way a Royal Emissary of the British Court was going to do that.

Arguments went back and forth as the Chinese were intent on ramming their superiority down the throats of any visiting diplomats. They regarded these individuals with contempt, convinced that the Middle Kingdom was the centre of Planet Earth and that every other country in the World should bow obediently to their gracious power.

They enforced this policy throughout Asia, Japan, Korea and other nations would bow to the Chinese Emperor, and be regarded as inferior childling nations by the Chinese. Another example of Institutionalized Nationalist Racism.

Anyway, the issue was trade, vast quantities of Chinese goods were flowing to the West, the simple question was, how about buying some stuff from us?

After two years an agreement was reached, a painting of King George III was placed behind the Emperor, hidden behind a silk screen. The Emissary approached and bowed deeply. Those watching ( that didn't know about the painting ) were of the opinion that the King of Britain was kowtowing to the Emperor, as an Emissary represents the Regent. This farce suited the Face issue that the Chinese Emperor was trying to present. It was essential for him to portray himself as the leader of men, the Most Powerful, Most Blessed Regent in the World.

The Emissary wasn't bowing deeply to the Emperor at all, he was bowing deeply to the hidden portrait. After listening to the request made on friendly terms for China to consider trading with the West, and the UK in particular, the Emperor dismissed the Emissary with a contemptuous " We are the Middle Kingdom, you have nothing that we want or need ".

Yup, that's what he said to the UK Emissary right on the cusp of the Industrial Revolution. When word got back to the British Royal Court they were enraged. Instead of a situation where silk, tea and porcelain would cross the oceans one way, while wool and industrial technology would flow the other between friendly trading nations. Chinese Nationalism and Racism caused a split.

It was essential that the West force open trade with China, China was sucking in all of the capital in the form of silver. It was effectively bleeding the West dry.

You can date the downfall of China from the moment that Emperor opened his mouth. He sealed the fate of his nation that day. If China had traded, they would have built themselves up to being the preeminent manufacturing power in the World in the early 1800's. Could you picture the Chinese getting their hands on rail and steam technology back in the day? No one would have come close to overcoming their trading power.

What really happened was that the Brits rolled out their arms manufacturing, steam ships, incredible naval resources et al. They forced open the market and the rest of the Western countries rejoiced. I'm delighted to say it was two Scotsmen, Jardine and Mathieson who were at the forefront of this trading conquest.

Yes they rammed Opium down the throats of the Chinese, however people choose to ignore the fact that it was willing throats. They wanted it. The Emperors of the day were enraged when they realized that they had fallen off their lofty perch. Little Britain could roll in at any time it wanted and boot them all over the place. The Chinese went from Omnipotent to Impotent in one wayward sentence from the Imperial Mouth.

This is the true nature of the Rage In China. They were humiliated, but to make it even worse, it was a self inflicted wound, caused by their Racist Nationalist agenda.

After the Americans sailed into Isolationist Japan and shelled them, bullied them, into submission, the Japanese grabbed hold of the technological expertise provided partly by the US and exploded into being a militarized and industrial force. It was the ultimate humiliation for China when Japan, who they regarded as being inferior monkeys, came a calling. What you saw at Nanking, disgusting as it was, was pay back for centuries of Imperial domination by China.

Payback is a bitch huh?

The Chinese and Chinese apologists date all the faults and humiliations from the first Opium War. The Chinese Communist government cannot tell the truth, and the truth is that it was China's own fault that they didn't grasp the hand of friendship when offered. They can't tell the truth that all the humiliations came as a result of their superiority complex, their nationalist, racist agenda.

They still stoke the Nationalist, Racist fire. Members here have stated that they have seen the degree of vilification directed towards the Japanese. I stand by my additional contention that there is institutional hatred of the West in the system too.

My OP addressed the issue of racism in China right away. I explained that was behind a lot of the dynamic that you see with the Chinese here in Thailand. They are disdainful of the Thais, they don't hate them, they just regard them as inferior.

Talk of White Supremacy is dribbling garbage. It's intellectually vacuous to argue that point. The real danger is the return of a centuries old Racial Supremacy mindset in China. The Chinese Communist party has been fertilizing that crop for decades, you better hope that we don't one day reap what they have sowed.

Here's the full text of the letter Chinese Emperor Long sent to George III of Great Britain in response to the king's offer of trade relations with China.

The letter is replete with references to the superiority and supremacy of the Chines in all of the world and in the affairs of all the world.

It represents the 5000 year history of Chinese racism that the world is facing in the present.

In accordance with the "fair use" rule of TVF, I present three choice lines from the smugly and self-satisfied supremacist letter that makes clear the historical Chinese state of mind that they are the undoubted and unquestioned supreme overlords of the world.

Emperor Qian Long: Letter to George III, 1793

http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/core9/phalsall/texts/qianlong.html

Swaying the wide world, I have but one aim in view, namely, to maintain a perfect governance and to fulfil the duties of the State: strange and costly objects do not interest me.

As your Ambassador can see for himself, we possess all things. I set no value on objects strange or ingenious, and have no use for your country's manufactures.

It behoves you, O King, to respect my sentiments and to display even greater devotion and loyalty in future, so that, by perpetual submission to our Throne, you may secure peace and prosperity for your country hereafter.

thank you for an interesting link. I see the letter totally diferently to you as in fact a very complete measured and polite response to a King of a foreign country whose letters contained always a list of his majesty and that of his county his subject and his widespread realm.

Opps better be careful remember you cannot write anything good about the chinese and even if you somehow managed to prove that he was really polite that idiot will still give an excuse why it is perfectly fine for britain to invade china. Of course were the situation reversed he would change his stance completely showing his biasness.

[snake24]

wow china has the 2nd largest GDP in the world http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29

This is in response to someone that wrote about india having 10th largest gdp. Hey china is even bigger now we will see excuses as to why china is still somehow <deleted> up despite having 2nd largest gdp and why it doesn't apply to other countries.

[SinglePot]

Iowa, UK.

Edited by Publicus, 55 minutes ago.

Iowa, USA, is a great town with many educated farmers, who also deal daily millions of dollars of important products in places like China.

The people there are probably less biased by their views than most.

They are open and friendly people.

I am sure that Iowa, UK is just the same,

But they do not deal in corn, except maybe the corn liquor?

And they do not export to Beijing as much as does Iowa USA.

You didn't get it first time round, so here it is again.

I don't come from Iowa, and I don't like Beijing called a liar.

Freudian.

So wrap up the crap talk about ME.

I can understand that.

But, as for me, I do not mind being called a liar, just a different point of view probably.

I think I get it though. You do not come from Iowa.

Got it.

How about being called manipulative and perverse?

[SinglePot]

and as the chinaman said: how many children do you have?

[OldChinaHam]

Iowa, UK.

Edited by Publicus, 55 minutes ago.

Iowa, USA, is a great town with many educated farmers, who also deal daily millions of dollars of important products in places like China.

The people there are probably less biased by their views than most.

They are open and friendly people.

I am sure that Iowa, UK is just the same,

But they do not deal in corn, except maybe the corn liquor?

And they do not export to Beijing as much as does Iowa USA.

You didn't get it first time round, so here it is again.

I don't come from Iowa, and I don't like Beijing called a liar.

Freudian.

So wrap up the crap talk about ME.

I can understand that.

But, as for me, I do not mind being called a liar, just a different point of view probably.

I think I get it though. You do not come from Iowa.

Got it.

How about being called manipulative and perverse?

How about Machiavellian and Obtuse?

It is all the same to me.

Ho hum.

[onionluke]

http://youtu.be/04QoA44c23A

[Publicus]

Iowa, UK.

Edited by Publicus, 55 minutes ago.

Iowa, USA, is a great town with many educated farmers, who also deal daily millions of dollars of important products in places like China.

The people there are probably less biased by their views than most.

They are open and friendly people.

I am sure that Iowa, UK is just the same,

But they do not deal in corn, except maybe the corn liquor?

And they do not export to Beijing as much as does Iowa USA.

You didn't get it first time round, so here it is again.

I don't come from Iowa, and I don't like Beijing called a liar.

Freudian.

So wrap up the crap talk about ME.

I can understand that.

But, as for me, I do not mind being called a liar, just a different point of view probably.

I think I get it though. You do not come from Iowa.

Got it.

Iowa, USA is a state, not a town or a municipality; neither is it a county.

Iowa is one of the 50 states.

It's named after the Ioway Native American tribe, the people Columbus erroneously called Indians.

And when you find Iowa, UK, on a map, let me know.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Publicus

[OldChinaHam]

Iowa, UK.

Edited by Publicus, 55 minutes ago.

Iowa, USA, is a great town with many educated farmers, who also deal daily millions of dollars of important products in places like China.

The people there are probably less biased by their views than most.

They are open and friendly people.

I am sure that Iowa, UK is just the same,

But they do not deal in corn, except maybe the corn liquor?

And they do not export to Beijing as much as does Iowa USA.

You didn't get it first time round, so here it is again.

I don't come from Iowa, and I don't like Beijing called a liar.

Freudian.

So wrap up the crap talk about ME.

I can understand that.

But, as for me, I do not mind being called a liar, just a different point of view probably.

I think I get it though. You do not come from Iowa.

Got it.

Iowa, USA is a state, not a town or a municipality; neither is it a county.

Iowa is one of the 50 states.

QUICK!

Name the provinces of China, one after the other!

You can leave your hat on.

[onionluke]

I fly out on October 3rd Harrry, arrange a date with Lawrence prior to that and I will be there. I'll also verify where I have in my mind is wheelchair friendly.

@Onionluke, that young lady is fantastic, very funny.

http://dangerousminds.net/comments/acappella_abbey_road_sixteen_glorious_minutes_of_isolated_beatles

[harrry]

And if there is no throwing of statues and pots allowed what precisely is on the agenda for a discussion about China in a restaurant in Chiang Mai?

Ming Vases........

[onionluke]

The future will provide many shards , Ming Vegas ,

[LawrenceChee]

And if there is no throwing of statues and pots allowed what precisely is on the agenda for a discussion about China in a restaurant in Chiang Mai?

Ming Vases........

Those are a beauty and a marvel to watch and admire

[Publicus]

And if there is no throwing of statues and pots allowed what precisely is on the agenda for a discussion about China in a restaurant in Chiang Mai?

Ming Vases........

Those are a beauty and a marvel to watch and admire

Highly worthwhile time spent to behold those and other such sights.

I've been through many museums (and Buddhist temples) in parts of the PRC and never fail to be amazed or even stunned by some of the beauty of the work done so long ago.

[theblether]

Here's an interesting article from the Telegraph today.......

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/10294488/China-embraces-British-Model-ditching-Mao-for-Edmund-Burke.html