The Chinese......Another View.

[Publicus]

The good thing is china has time and money to try to fix the inflated bloated economy by moving into a new direction of encouraging consumption rather than solely depending on exports ...it will take years to tweak but the massive infrastructure projects were necessary for a new economy to accelerate the pace. The west has benefited from this boom as well and will continue to depend on it as the world economies are more intertwined than self sufficient

The USA has suffered all that you predicted and still came back strong ...so there is optimism among the Chinese reformers it can be done ...at least the Chinese are in a better spot as they have the savings and the cash flow to make it happen

Bubbles never end well.

Property values are raped and personal savings are wiped out.

Beijing will have to use its FX reserves to help try to bail out the economy, which will only make things worse.

The CCP-PRC is starting from a much lower per capita income than were the United States or Japan - or Europe for that matter.

Vested interests in the CCP stand squarely and selfishly in the way of needed reforms.

Don't hold your breath.

Agree that bubbles don't end well for anyone ....most of my ex business partners were steamrolled in the USA and it was sad to see them personally suffer the bankruptcy

The lower per capita also coincides with the lower cost of living there as compared to most cities for the common folk ...fixing inflation is a government nightmare everywhere and it's not solely something the CCP is alone in

I remain optimistic that the current PM will try his best ...may not finish by the time he is done in 10 years but at lest he will lay the groundwork for it

If you read my post you know I'm talking about more than inflation or some reform.

The global banking houses and investment houses have the CCP's economy and financial system red flagged for a train wreck.

This isn't about inflation or some tinkering reforms. It's about a wrongheaded economy and financial system that is aggravated by endemic and massive corruption.

Any of the huge and serious bubbles can burst at any time which will set off a cascade of bursting bubbles that will collapse the economy and financial system in a systemic failure.

This is not about inflation.

[Publicus]

SP sorry if I missed something but what is the problem with getting taxis at 1.0am?

I have often taken taxis from Guangzhou airport at or close to midnight without any issues - or is it just Beijing?

Guangzhou airport can be awful for taxis any time of day or night. The drivers want to take you all the way deep into GZ and nothing less. I always had to get a cop to require the taxi driver next in line to accept me as a fare. That's because I never had to go all the way into central GZ. I'd show the cop my university ID card and the cop would order the taxi driver to accept me.

One driver one time decided to take me to GZ via Chongqing so I set the cops on him yet again, which after hours of his haggling with the police put him out 260 yuan and I paid the usual fare from the airport to the university (which is where I made sure I ended up anyway so the campus police would help me, which they 100% did do).

The most notable aspect of the confrontation however was when the driver tried to run me over after I refused to pay for the grand tour fare. It's a good thing for the driver a metal cage separates the driver from the passengers in the back seat. I see why it's there.

Whatever you do, don't get in a car with a couple of gangsters if you arrive at Beijing Capital at 4am having been diverted via Tianjin because of ferocious winds from Siberia.

Very unpleasant.

To be fair both could be issues at any airport

Publicus I haven't encountered it at GZ as i stay north of centre so has never been an issue. At least you do not need to (and are hardly expected) to give any tip at all.

I hear you.

My usual tip anyway is to plant your corn early this year.

[OldChinaHam]

Perhaps the Chinese don't have the recent experience of political upheaval that the Russian Empire had. So long as the emperor is far away, I don't think they care whether he wears a denim shirt or a silk robe.

SC

Putin never wears a shirt when astride his white stallion.

Every woman adores a Fascist,

The boot in the face, the brute

Brute heart of a brute like you.

― Sylvia Plath, Ariel: The Restored Edition

The man of literature, OCH, will probably know that Sylvia was married to Poet Laureate Ted Hughes, and committed suicide.

Have not read his poetry, but with his lovers dropping like flies, he must have been much like Putin in many ways.

Putin is a poet, too.

All Russians have poetry, its in their blood.

I am not, though, a man of letters.

[snake24]

Perhaps the Chinese don't have the recent experience of political upheaval that the Russian Empire had. So long as the emperor is far away, I don't think they care whether he wears a denim shirt or a silk robe.

SC

Putin never wears a shirt when astride his white stallion.

Every woman adores a Fascist,

The boot in the face, the brute

Brute heart of a brute like you.

― Sylvia Plath, Ariel: The Restored Edition

The man of literature, OCH, will probably know that Sylvia was married to Poet Laureate Ted Hughes, and committed suicide.

Have not read his poetry, but with his lovers dropping like flies, he must have been much like Putin in many ways.

Putin is a poet, too.

All Russians have poetry, its in their blood.

I am not, though, a man of letters.

speaking of russians my favourite russian is yuri boyka who isn't even a real russian mind you but the protaganist from the movie undisputed 2 and 3 played by scott adkins who put on a very convincing but stereotypical russian accent.

[SinglePot]

Not sure if it's relevant, but corn season just finished up here in northern Thailand. Rice is about 60cm.

[SinglePot]

Perhaps the Chinese don't have the recent experience of political upheaval that the Russian Empire had. So long as the emperor is far away, I don't think they care whether he wears a denim shirt or a silk robe.

SC

Putin never wears a shirt when astride his white stallion.

Every woman adores a Fascist,

The boot in the face, the brute

Brute heart of a brute like you.

― Sylvia Plath, Ariel: The Restored Edition

The man of literature, OCH, will probably know that Sylvia was married to Poet Laureate Ted Hughes, and committed suicide.

Have not read his poetry, but with his lovers dropping like flies, he must have been much like Putin in many ways.

Putin is a poet, too.

All Russians have poetry, its in their blood.

I am not, though, a man of letters.

French?

[OldChinaHam]

The thing I want to know SinglePot,

Why do you keep getting in so late at night when arriving in BeiJing?

I don't think it is as bad as you say, unless you go out of your way to ride with goons.

Maybe you were interviewing one of them when the interview suddenly went sour?

If you speak Chinese though, then usually you can get a pretty good idea what people are like when in Beijing,

And I never ride with thugs there, or in the Bronx.

How do you choose your taxis?

Do you choose the ones who rush up begging for you to ride in their cars?

I know how to choose a taxi in China, and so I have not had many difficulties after a few bad rides 35 years ago before I knew better.

Taxi drivers, honestly, are usually very friendly to me because I sincerely do enjoy listening to them talk about whatever it is that they like to talk about.

Sometime in the past, I would stop halfway home and ask them to join me for a beer, or a meal of noodles.

I have become friends with a few and I still carry their cards after quite a few years.

Maybe they do not like foreigners who treat them like crap, or ones who don't much like them.

This is my surmise,

In your case.

Edited September 9, 2013 by OldChinaHam

[SinglePot]

If I had the capability with this iPad I'd post a pic of my half Russian granddaughter who has just started school very close to GCHQ in Cheltenham, UK

Pretty as a picture.

How many children and grandchildren does a Chinese man have?

[harrry]

If I had the capability with this iPad I'd post a pic of my half Russian granddaughter who has just started school very close to GCHQ in Cheltenham, UK

Pretty as a picture.

How many children and grandchildren does a Chinese man have?

However many or few he has he values them at least as much as you do.

[SinglePot]

A message for the good man theblether and his dinner party friends in Chiang Mai.

The CCP-PRC is toxic.

The epicentre is Beijing.

I have no wish to be banned from TVF so will leave this in the capable hands of the OP and other good men.

E. Burke.

[LawrenceChee]

The good thing is china has time and money to try to fix the inflated bloated economy by moving into a new direction of encouraging consumption rather than solely depending on exports ...it will take years to tweak but the massive infrastructure projects were necessary for a new economy to accelerate the pace. The west has benefited from this boom as well and will continue to depend on it as the world economies are more intertwined than self sufficient

The USA has suffered all that you predicted and still came back strong ...so there is optimism among the Chinese reformers it can be done ...at least the Chinese are in a better spot as they have the savings and the cash flow to make it happen

Bubbles never end well.

Property values are raped and personal savings are wiped out.

Beijing will have to use its FX reserves to help try to bail out the economy, which will only make things worse.

The CCP-PRC is starting from a much lower per capita income than were the United States or Japan - or Europe for that matter.

Vested interests in the CCP stand squarely and selfishly in the way of needed reforms.

Don't hold your breath.

Agree that bubbles don't end well for anyone ....most of my ex business partners were steamrolled in the USA and it was sad to see them personally suffer the bankruptcy

The lower per capita also coincides with the lower cost of living there as compared to most cities for the common folk ...fixing inflation is a government nightmare everywhere and it's not solely something the CCP is alone in

I remain optimistic that the current PM will try his best ...may not finish by the time he is done in 10 years but at lest he will lay the groundwork for it

If you read my post you know I'm talking about more than inflation or some reform.

The global banking houses and investment houses have the CCP's economy and financial system red flagged for a train wreck.

This isn't about inflation or some tinkering reforms. It's about a wrongheaded economy and financial system that is aggravated by endemic and massive corruption.

Any of the huge and serious bubbles can burst at any time which will set off a cascade of bursting bubbles that will collapse the economy and financial system in a systemic failure.

This is not about inflation.

Perhaps you have a recommendation for them on how to fix it ?

Balance social health and happiness , a crippling looming economy according to you, mass corruption and a party system that is not democratic and fencing off western powers who hate you to the core and protect your own interests in preserving your own identity

it is obvious the ways of the west has not inspired much confidence seeing all these predicted has already happened

Be interesting to hear how you think there is a better way to manage this 1.3 billion population that is not homogenous in the first place and has huge cultural differences within the different provinces

I sit in a few provincial government discussions and with its mass population, not one policy will please everyone ...it's a headache and they already know it...the critical mass is as much part of the problem as the solutions are.

I believe in the steps they are taking is in the right direction and although it may not solve all issues, I hope to see a stronger and happier china before I die.

[CHRISTIANa9]

The good thing is china has time and money to try to fix the inflated bloated economy by moving into a new direction of encouraging consumption rather than solely depending on exports ...it will take years to tweak but the massive infrastructure projects were necessary for a new economy to accelerate the pace. The west has benefited from this boom as well and will continue to depend on it as the world economies are more intertwined than self sufficient

The USA has suffered all that you predicted and still came back strong ...so there is optimism among the Chinese reformers it can be done ...at least the Chinese are in a better spot as they have the savings and the cash flow to make it happen

Bubbles never end well.

Property values are raped and personal savings are wiped out.

Beijing will have to use its FX reserves to help try to bail out the economy, which will only make things worse.

The CCP-PRC is starting from a much lower per capita income than were the United States or Japan - or Europe for that matter.

Vested interests in the CCP stand squarely and selfishly in the way of needed reforms.

Don't hold your breath.

Agree that bubbles don't end well for anyone ....most of my ex business partners were steamrolled in the USA and it was sad to see them personally suffer the bankruptcy

The lower per capita also coincides with the lower cost of living there as compared to most cities for the common folk ...fixing inflation is a government nightmare everywhere and it's not solely something the CCP is alone in

I remain optimistic that the current PM will try his best ...may not finish by the time he is done in 10 years but at lest he will lay the groundwork for it

If you read my post you know I'm talking about more than inflation or some reform.

The global banking houses and investment houses have the CCP's economy and financial system red flagged for a train wreck.

This isn't about inflation or some tinkering reforms. It's about a wrongheaded economy and financial system that is aggravated by endemic and massive corruption.

Any of the huge and serious bubbles can burst at any time which will set off a cascade of bursting bubbles that will collapse the economy and financial system in a systemic failure.

This is not about inflation.

Perhaps you have a recommendation for them on how to fix it ?

Be interesting to hear how you think there is a better way to manage this 1.3 billion population that is not homogenous in the first place and has huge cultural differences within the different provinces

I believe in the steps they are taking is in the right direction and although it may not solve all issues, I hope to see a stronger and happier china before I die.

Best solution is to break up china since as you said it's not homogenous. Let them be comfortable with their surroundings rather then all under one roof.

Frankly I rather not to have a strong china. With all the bullying in the South China Sea and Tibet, as far as I am concern china is not ready to be strong.

[LawrenceChee]

Tried that with Iraq and they have 3 main groups and still it remains unsafe for daily trips to markets, rides to schools and not investment safe ...

West claimed WMD and attacked them , rid of saddam ..found no WMD (guess saddam plays a good poker game in making people believed he had then...but the west gave him those chemical weapons in the first place years ago) and now they can vote for a govt that has no legitimacy depending on which of the 3 groups he comes from.

breaking up china would create a whole set of different problems.

China has about 600 ethic groups estimate and about 400 dialects. Imagine Falklands having to just choose between UK and Argentina and its such am emotive topic ...I don't believe it is feasible to imagine persuading the Chinese you can choose one or the other

[harrry]

Tried that with Iraq and they have 3 main groups and still it remains unsafe for daily trips to markets, rides to schools and not investment safe ...

West claimed WMD and attacked them , rid of saddam ..found no WMD (guess saddam plays a good poker game in making people believed he had then...but the west gave him those chemical weapons in the first place years ago) and now they can vote for a govt that has no legitimacy depending on which of the 3 groups he comes from.

breaking up china would create a whole set of different problems.

China has about 600 ethic groups estimate and about 400 dialects. Imagine Falklands having to just choose between UK and Argentina and its such am emotive topic ...I don't believe it is feasible to imagine persuading the Chinese you can choose one or the other

In 1947 the partition of India resulted in thousands, maybe millions of deaths and led to a division which split the people of three countries. Two then and three later.

Trying the same thing now with todays weapons and atitudes would be an even worse disaster.

[theblether]

It would create a calamitous knock on effect for world trade, and possibly a horrific refugee crisis. The World would struggle to cope and SE Asia would drown in a sea of misery. I think some people forget how geographically close Thailand is to China, how many million people would come crashing over the border in the event of civil war?

Not a tasty prospect. Just like Saddam, sometimes better the Devil you know...............

[Publicus]

The impending systemic economic and financial crash of the CCP-PRC is going to fracture the huge place according to region, native language(Cantonese vs Mandarin), political views, socio-economic status, ethnicity, history, attitude toward secession (generally favorable in Guangdong province) and along a dozen or more other fault lines.

What we prefer may have nothing to do with the realities that develop once the several huge bubbles burst and the economy and financial systems go bust. One can't compare the CCP-PRC economy and financial system to that of the United States - they are two different beasts entirely. The 2008 meltdown in the US was due to greed and hubris, not because of the systemic failures of fundamentally flawed concepts and institutions of society and economy as are occurring in the CCP-PRC.

The North-South differences remain particularly acute and in many ways fundamental, differences which have bedeviled dynasties for a couple of thousand years and which continue to challenge the CCP in the present time.

The initial chaos of the systemic collapse of the CCP's PRC would cause global turbulence and disruption, of that there is no doubt. But then the many republics that form from the provinces soon will be back at their production and productivity, even if most foreign capital has fled the Mainland as has in fact already occurred. Given the new realities should this occur, the needed foreign capital will return in huge volume to the many new republics

Gone would be a dictatorship that is fascist, censoring, oppressive, repressive, punishing, indoctrinating, propagandizing and that is menacing the region's peace and the world.

Good riddance, even though we'd probably get two or three more North Koreas out of it but, conversely, we'd also get a couple of dozen South Koreas out of it too.

And the Chinese would accomplish this themselves - no Western powers and Japan carving up territories, arbitrarily creating new states. The Chinese would accomplish this internally, naturally, themselves, without any "assistance" from outside of the Mainland. Hong Kong would become a city-state such as Singapore; both HKG and Taiwan would be free to pursue their democracies and constitutional parliamentary systems that enable free enterprise and its attendant prosperity, stability, peace.

All of which would be most welcome to we bystanders and to the benefit of everyone globally, to include the Chinese themselves and the peoples they presently occupy by conquest..

[NeverSure]

Interesting perspectives. I don't want to start a debate about whether the USSR was a totalitarian dictatorship or a communist state, but I see parallels with China. The USSR broke up partly because it went broke and partly because of a variety of ethnic groups who wanted their own independent states.

My guess is that they wanted their own states more and more as the economy failed and the USSR could no longer support them.

China which is communist has 1.3 billion people to support. And you though it was expensive to feed and school your family, haha.

I agree that if China breaks up into geographical and ethnic groups, it will come from within. The motivation might be that there are two classes of people - those benefiting from capitalism and those who are outside looking in.

[LawrenceChee]

I think the points put across has to be out through a huge reality check.

Many in the west would love to see china broken up like the old USSR but in reality it would create a massive border and infrastructure demise that no Chinese would support it. Unlike USSR, most states have no natural resources.

I agree with you to a certain extent that the easiest cities HK, Taiwan and Guangzhou or even the coastal cities would relish the opportunity to establish city states and yet as my ancestry is in Guangzhou , I can tell you with a degree of certainty there are no businessman better in China than those born in the south and we are an extremely pragmatic lot.

We were born to trade and explore and the economic ties of all these 3 provinces to China means eventually the pragmatic approach will prevail.

I was invited to the Guangzhou education council when the recent debacle came about banning Cantonese and while there were protests and all, eventually a pragmatic head prevailed.

Use mandarin for state talk and Cantonese for daily use. What a lot of the western press didn't not witness behind close doors was that the CCP govt uses a lot of states for experiments and no province has been more latitude than Guangzhou and HK for their future in democracy. Giving people the free choice sounds great but the reality check of managing that is another

They have to take baby steps as every decision will dissect 1.3 billion people with different interests.

Imagine the hill tribes of Yunnan, without the economic support what will they return to ...poppy trade and of course maybe then the golden triangle will not be a tourist attraction anymore as the old drug trade returns. Imagine all the small provinces ....what would they trade on with no sea borders to transport their goods ?

Taking away all the major cities such as shanghai Tianjin shenyang and the likes ...the remaining small cities becoming countries of their own just based on language and preferences will make the refugee and economic crisis East Timor look like a cupcake.

The western folks who like to see that happen better be prepared to see their countries dragged into humanitarian aid for years and trillions of dollars used on your treasury.

It seems that there are some who have only visited Beijing GZ and like to based their opinions on that. I encourage you to visit some of the smaller ones and see the reality.

An easy example I can give is Changchun. -40 degrees winter and bordering North Korea. Every apartment there built must be connected to the city grid as during winter the government will turn the heating source on ...enabling them to walk around the house in the teeshirt while the world freezes outside.

Try telling them ...you guys can be a country on your own as you speak a different dialect and the country is now broke and make and export your own cars and now you must buy heat from us. They would instantly tell you we will take some of the BS the government throws out and enjoy the heating for the 4 miserable months

[OldChinaHam]

The idea of a communal furnace to heat community homes is a great idea that is used in China in many places I think.

If they could scrub the emissions from the coal, or use natural gas, then it would also be environmentally more acceptable.

[LawrenceChee]

The idea of a communal furnace to heat community homes is a great idea that is used in China in many places I think.

If they could scrub the emissions from the coal, or use natural gas, then it would also be environmentally more acceptable.

Shanghai has been asking for that for years but as they are a tier 1 city they are deemed unsuitable from the median income

Be interesting to see when the gas pipes turn on in Myanmar and Indonesia if there will be a reduction in the reliance in coal

However lots of cheap coal up north and the car manufacturing hub there means it will take a lot of political will to make it happen as it is financially not feasible.

[harrry]

The idea of a communal furnace to heat community homes is a great idea that is used in China in many places I think.

If they could scrub the emissions from the coal, or use natural gas, then it would also be environmentally more acceptable.

I understand nuclear is used for this purpose in some of the oold USSR countries.

Edited September 10, 2013 by harrry

[Publicus]

Not every province needs to become its own republic should the CCP-PRC dissolve due to its wrongheaded and passe' political economy.

First, subtract from a collapsed CCP-PRC present regions occupied by conquest, specifically Tibet and Xinjiang. They would return to their previous status as sovereign independent nation states.

Then subtract already autonomous Hong Kong and Macau. Each could become its own city-state or the two could unite as one city state.

Taiwan is and has been a sovereign republic, its own nation state - that is the reality on the ground as the CCP-PRC has in fact no sovereign jurisdiction in or over Taiwan. The CCP is deluded when it thinks and believes otherwise. The CCP is anyway deluded across the board. And you Lawrence Chee are making CCP sheeple noises about Taiwan.

In a dissolved or disintegrated CCP-PRC, which is a foreseeable event, several provinces can join as one new republic. This can be done throughout the fractured CCP-PRC. This would create a dozen or so new sovereign republics from the artificial and enforced extant CCP-PRC.

The PRChinese do not want yet another civil war. No one wants the conflict and the loss of life that would cause. Further, the eastern half of the present country has begun to develop and has too much new public and private infrastructure for the Chinese to tolerate such physical destruction.

The Chinese themselves can and, I believe would, analyze, discuss and negotiate the incorporation of several provinces into one new republic. This would be done throughout the fractured PRC based on the strengths and weaknesses of the various extant provinces with an emphasis on the major metropolitan areas that would anchor each new republic. The process would include which new republics would get which major metro areas and also get which backward, poor in many ways, rural provinces. There are plenty of rational Chinese people and leaders despite the irrationality of the CCP and its fundamentally flawed and massively corrupt systems.

I myself know I'm not thinking or talking about each province only becoming its own republic only. That would be irrational and would only create unnecessary and unwise new problems, some of which are consistent with the matters Chee discusses in his post above. I'd thought that was obvious but I guess I have to point out that fact specifically.

After my having spent three years in Guangzhou City, I am well aware of the entrepreneurship of the people there. I'm also well aware that Guangdong province, the capital city of which is Guangzhou, is the most developed province as a province. I'm well aware GD province gets special treatment by Beijing because GD people have attitudes and beliefs that are far advanced of those held by the mass of the CCP-PRC sheeple. The whole of the province would not be adverse to becoming its own republic, taking Taiwan as its model of political economy. GD province is the export powerhouse of the CCP-PRC and has a significant percentage of the entire GDP of the country itself.

I was present in Guangzhou at the time of the protests against Beijing's mandate that Mandarin supplant Cantonese as the language of GZ, which is the old Canton, and of Guangdong province and the South of China in general, to include Hong Kong which also had massive public demonstrations against the mandate. Beijing had no choice but to compromise in the ways that it did. The people of GZ and GD simply are not going to stop using their native Cantonese language which I also have pointed out is the original native Chinese language due to Mandarin originating as a Mongolian language, not a Chinese one.

In short, a dissolved CCP-PRC can rationally reorganize itself into a dozen or so new republics. Each new republic can be rationally organized based on many factors. One chief factor would be determining which metro areas would anchor each of the new republics. Each new republic also would necessarily include certain specified backward areas of the extant CCP-PRC so the burden of further development can be shared and so that more Chinese can be included in the modern world.

The new republics of course would be predicated on democracy and market economics as their political economy due to lessons learned from the miserably failed and reprehensible existence of the CCP-PRC.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Publicus

[LawrenceChee]

You have been to china for a few years and I have been a Chinese all my life and ancestry.

You obviously believe you understand the Chinese better than being an American which probably means the deluded title should stay with you

At the heart of being an Asian and Chinese, its a selfish pragmatic culture where nothing is more important than the family unit and its well being.

The government can be corrupt, we can be pissed with it , we can get angry with it but at the end of the day, the welfare of the family and its future generation is more important than a few political points or reforms.

We don't like our politicians like many nations hate their own government but who cares about them when the most important people are right next to you.

The west place a huge bearing on the importance of self appraisals and the need to extol your thoughts and the freedom to critique.

The east does the same but in the safety of our best friends and family. It's the same really just a different way to express our thoughts and to who

Your ideals of seperating HK, guangzhou and taiwan is simplistic but the logistical nightmare of seperation is beyond the dreamers ...so sorry.

[Publicus]

You have been to china for a few years and I have been a Chinese all my life and ancestry.

You obviously believe you understand the Chinese better than being an American which probably means the deluded title should stay with you

At the heart of being an Asian and Chinese, its a selfish pragmatic culture where nothing is more important than the family unit and its well being.

The government can be corrupt, we can be pissed with it , we can get angry with it but at the end of the day, the welfare of the family and its future generation is more important than a few political points or reforms.

We don't like our politicians like many nations hate their own government but who cares about them when the most important people are right next to you.

The west place a huge bearing on the importance of self appraisals and the need to extol your thoughts and the freedom to critique.

The east does the same but in the safety of our best friends and family. It's the same really just a different way to express our thoughts and to who

Your ideals of seperating HK, guangzhou and taiwan is simplistic but the logistical nightmare of seperation is beyond the dreamers ...so sorry.

The family unit will endure the collapse of the CCP-PRC.

Are you faithless concerning the durability of the nuclear and extended, three-generation family unit? Do you see it as so weak and feeble that it could not survive or endure the collapse of the CCP-PRC?

The nuclear family unit itself, and its East Asian model of the three-generation family unit, have existed for millennia. It has existed and endured throughout the world under all the different forms of government, and despite war, famine, pestilence, disease.

(And not every region of the world has the nuclear family unit exclusively. It's not the only form of the family unit.)

What anyway ties and binds the family unit and its East Asian three-generation family model so inextricably and so vitally and critically to the existence of the CCP-PRC? Or to the CCP itself?

Where's your rationality?

Are you a CCP?

Edited September 10, 2013 by Publicus

[livinthailandos]

I must say im quite fascinated with this posting and thread but mostly due to the insights that are being provided.

I have a particular interest in learning as much as I can from some of you as I have year round chinese tourists.

Thanks for all the posts

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[LawrenceChee]

PM me mate...I work in the tourism business and be happy to assist.

[topt]

You have been to china for a few years and I have been a Chinese all my life and ancestry.

You obviously believe you understand the Chinese better than being an American which probably means the deluded title should stay with you

At the heart of being an Asian and Chinese, its a selfish pragmatic culture where nothing is more important than the family unit and its well being.

The government can be corrupt, we can be pissed with it , we can get angry with it but at the end of the day, the welfare of the family and its future generation is more important than a few political points or reforms.

We don't like our politicians like many nations hate their own government but who cares about them when the most important people are right next to you.

The west place a huge bearing on the importance of self appraisals and the need to extol your thoughts and the freedom to critique.

The east does the same but in the safety of our best friends and family. It's the same really just a different way to express our thoughts and to who

Your ideals of seperating HK, guangzhou and taiwan is simplistic but the logistical nightmare of seperation is beyond the dreamers ...so sorry.

The family unit will endure the collapse of the CCP-PRC.

Are you faithless concerning the durability of the nuclear and extended, three-generation family unit? Do you see it as so weak and feeble that it could not survive or endure the collapse of the CCP-PRC?

The nuclear family unit itself, and its East Asian model of the three-generation family unit, have existed for millennia. It has existed and endured throughout the world under all the different forms of government, and despite war, famine, pestilence, disease.

(And not every region of the world has the nuclear family unit exclusively. It's not the only form of the family unit.)

What anyway ties and binds the family unit and its East Asian three-generation family model so inextricably and so vitally and critically to the existence of the CCP-PRC? Or to the CCP itself?

Where's your rationality?

Are you a CCP?

Publicus - out of curiosity do you have a timeframe for this?

I only have 5 years here in GZ and as previously mentioned associating more at the grass roots level and I just cannot see this "separation" occurring as things stand. I tend to agree more with LC's view based on what I see and the complete lack of political interest from the majority of the Chinese people I speak to. As long as things are good for them and they are not adversely affected they simply accept....

Yes if there was a major meltdown some changes would happen but my view is that is not going to happen.

Can I say you seem to have a real issue with the CCP and I am curious why?

[SinglePot]

It's toxic.

[OldChinaHam]

You have been to china for a few years and I have been a Chinese all my life and ancestry.

You obviously believe you understand the Chinese better than being an American which probably means the deluded title should stay with you

At the heart of being an Asian and Chinese, its a selfish pragmatic culture where nothing is more important than the family unit and its well being.

The government can be corrupt, we can be pissed with it , we can get angry with it but at the end of the day, the welfare of the family and its future generation is more important than a few political points or reforms.

We don't like our politicians like many nations hate their own government but who cares about them when the most important people are right next to you.

The west place a huge bearing on the importance of self appraisals and the need to extol your thoughts and the freedom to critique.

The east does the same but in the safety of our best friends and family. It's the same really just a different way to express our thoughts and to who

Your ideals of seperating HK, guangzhou and taiwan is simplistic but the logistical nightmare of seperation is beyond the dreamers ...so sorry.

The family unit will endure the collapse of the CCP-PRC.

Are you faithless concerning the durability of the nuclear and extended, three-generation family unit? Do you see it as so weak and feeble that it could not survive or endure the collapse of the CCP-PRC?

The nuclear family unit itself, and its East Asian model of the three-generation family unit, have existed for millennia. It has existed and endured throughout the world under all the different forms of government, and despite war, famine, pestilence, disease.

(And not every region of the world has the nuclear family unit exclusively. It's not the only form of the family unit.)

What anyway ties and binds the family unit and its East Asian three-generation family model so inextricably and so vitally and critically to the existence of the CCP-PRC? Or to the CCP itself?

Where's your rationality?

Are you a CCP?

Publicus - out of curiosity do you have a timeframe for this?

I only have 5 years here in GZ and as previously mentioned associating more at the grass roots level and I just cannot see this "separation" occurring as things stand. I tend to agree more with LC's view based on what I see and the complete lack of political interest from the majority of the Chinese people I speak to. As long as things are good for them and they are not adversely affected they simply accept....

Yes if there was a major meltdown some changes would happen but my view is that is not going to happen.

Can I say you seem to have a real issue with the CCP and I am curious why?

Are you SERIOUS?

A "real issue" with the CCP?

Why?

Oh, my lord!

If you read Chinese, I have the original Chinese version of the book:

"Tombstone: The Great Chinese Famine, 1958-1962 "

By Yang JiSheng

Read this book in English or in the PDF Chinese version I will be happy to send you anytime if you PM me,

And you will never need to ask why again.

Edited September 10, 2013 by OldChinaHam

[SinglePot]

PM me mate...I work in the tourism business and be happy to assist.

Thought you worked with provincial Chinese government?

Guanxi?