TV licence required for public viewing

[CMKiwi]

Well fellow TV members, I have a question. This is brought about because the girlfriend is opening a restaurant but with a beer garden incorporated that I want to include screenings of any sports thats live (I cant call it a Pub but thats what Id like it to be). There have been so many stories about music police and no doubt there are bound to be tv sports police too.

I dont want the hassle of these a###holes asking for fines etc etc so Im trying to ensure the GF pays all the relevant licences.

The question (Or questions) is/are this/these:

1. Is there a place that you buy a TV licence for public viewing?
2. What does one cost per TV set?
3. Where do you buy the 'music' licence?
4. And what does the music licence cost?

The missus wants to open asap but Im hesitant until all the ducks are in a row, thus Id have great delight in telling the TV or music police to piss off should they turn up. Im also very aware that opposition businesses would have no hesitation in making our life difficult by dobbing us in if we dont have relevant licences. However with that said, we do get along fine with these people......but I know how most Thai business people work. Just like the Japs, Id never turn my back on them!

We are out in Mae Rim and although its pretty quiet, it is starting to grow. Good times ahead I think.....

Cheers for your positive replies

[FolkGuitar]

but I know how most Thai business people work. Just like the Japs, Id never turn my back on them!

We are out in Mae Rim and although its pretty quiet, it is starting to grow. Good times ahead I think.....

I doubt you'll be getting much of the rapidly growing Japanese ex-pat community. And if word spreads to your Thai neighbors, they won't be around much either.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

The music police are scam artists.

It doesn't matter what regulations you comply with, they will still ask for money.

The "music police" did Mae Rim last month.

Why not open now, but don't play music or TV.

Edited September 3, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[CMKiwi]

but I know how most Thai business people work. Just like the Japs, Id never turn my back on them!

We are out in Mae Rim and although its pretty quiet, it is starting to grow. Good times ahead I think.....

I doubt you'll be getting much of the rapidly growing Japanese ex-pat community. And if word spreads to your Thai neighbors, they won't be around much either.

Lol, its a phrase (That was used a lot during a certain war. At that time it was not wise to trust someone of Japanese decent.)

Im not aware of any Japanese expat community here or in fact anywhere in CM, and I dont really have any problems with them as people.... or where you just being sarcastic?

No worries

[CMKiwi]

The music police are scam artists.

It doesn't matter what regulations you comply with, they will still ask for money.

The "music police" did Mae Rim last month.

Why not open now, but don't play music or TV.

Cheers for the reply, I did try and find something on TV re music and television licences. Well aware of the music scam but at least some form of official paper may keep them from trying it on at the GFs place. I have informed her about the scam and how to deal with it.

I may ask a few other sports bars in town/city about the television licence and see what they do.

Would like to show televised sports at this venue when it opens, as thats one thing that is missing out here.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Cheers for the reply, I did try and find something on TV re music and television licences. Well aware of the music scam but at least some form of official paper may keep them from trying it on at the GFs place. I have informed her about the scam and how to deal with it.

I may ask a few other sports bars in town/city about the television licence and see what they do.

Would like to show televised sports at this venue when it opens, as thats one thing that is missing out here.

I can 100% assure you "some form of official paper" will not stop them.

They will either say, it's the wrong paper, or it's a forgery.

The only way to avoid problems is to refuse to go with them and call the real police.

Your gf will be the weak point, as she will surely go with them, forcing you to pay whatever they want.

[CMKiwi]

Points noted and passed on....its what I had already told her. Dont let them into the premises unless they have a search warrant and certainly refuse to go to any police station. Kick up living hell would also likely help as all the surrounding businesses are sure to come look see.

As you say the GF would possibly be the weak link as she doesnt like others to lose face. I just pray it doesnt happen...for her sake.

[FolkGuitar]

Lol, its a phrase (That was used a lot during a certain war. At that time it was not wise to trust someone of Japanese decent.)

There are many phrases. And the people who are the butt of them don't care for them, regardless of their commonality or if they are said with a smile. As a business owner, it's a good idea not to offend any particular group. It just doesn't pay in the long run.

Im not aware of any Japanese expat community here or in fact anywhere in CM,

There is a rather large Japanese expat community in Chiang Mai, and it's growing daily. There are several Japanese factories outside of Chiang Mai that all have Japanese middle management, with these managers and their families living in Hillside 4, Nakornping Condo, Riverside Condo, etc. There is the "Japanese Long Stay Culture Organization" on the lobby floor of Nakornping Condo. According to the Japanese Consulate, there are almost 4,000 Japanese currently living in Chiang Mai.

Edited September 3, 2013 by FolkGuitar

[alant]

the music licence was. I think, introduced in 2008, maybe 2009 by Chiang mai city authorities as things started to get a little tough with the global recession etc and fewer establishments were, I suspect remaining open and therefore paying their licence fee. It was then 5000 thb, quite expensive when compared to the liquor licence. obtained I believe at the same place but not required for TV or radio I also believe. Sorry not much further info.

[Suradit69]

but I know how most Thai business people work. Just like the Japs, Id never turn my back on them!

We are out in Mae Rim and although its pretty quiet, it is starting to grow. Good times ahead I think.....

I doubt you'll be getting much of the rapidly growing Japanese ex-pat community. And if word spreads to your Thai neighbors, they won't be around much either.

Lol, its a phrase (That was used a lot during a certain war. At that time it was not wise to trust someone of Japanese decent.)

Im not aware of any Japanese expat community here or in fact anywhere in CM, and I dont really have any problems with them as people.... or where you just being sarcastic?

No worries

"At that time it was not wise to trust someone of Japanese decent"

I'm sure it's safe now to trust people of Japanese descent, especially the decent ones, but given that you're apparently trapped in some time-warp I'm assuming they'll have to use some back entrance and have separate facilities at this establishment? Sounds like it should be a resounding success, regardless of licensing requirements.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Suradit69

[BudRight]

There was a French restaurant (French owned) in Bang Rak that was raided by the music police. All the music played at the restaurant was from legally purchased CDs that were stored digitally. The music police raided the place and claimed that practice was illegal - which it is definitely not.

They are more of an extortion gang than police and they do not care about the law. As AnotherOneAmerican said, if they show up, call the real police.

[Chicog]

There was a French restaurant (French owned) in Bang Rak that was raided by the music police. All the music played at the restaurant was from legally purchased CDs that were stored digitally. The music police raided the place and claimed that practice was illegal - which it is definitely not.

They are more of an extortion gang than police and they do not care about the law. As AnotherOneAmerican said, if they show up, call the real police.

I think if you read the small print on most CDs, you are not legally authorised to play them in a public place without permission. In fact I don't think you're even legally allowed to rip them, although not sure if that's been tested in court.

As for TV, if you have the appropriate venue license from the TV provider, that should be enough.

If you buy a home subscription and try and use it for your customers, then you are on thin ice.

And then of course there is the fact that you're in Thailand.

[Cuban]

You are wise to investigate the various licences that you will require to operate legally as you can be sure that your farang association with the business will attract attention, not least from a point of view about having or not having a work permit etc etc. So no wiping tables down or putting chairs back in order, this is why all farang bar owners in Pattaya drink at "their" bar with their own little bamboo pot check-bin in front of them, every time, as they are only a customer.

I can not help on your direct question, it was some years since I had involvement in Pattaya and connections with a music and drink sales licences, but I recall that difference licences were required for beer sales and high proof spirits sales and for consumption at your address vs take-away sales. Be mindful of local rulings on the sales of alcohol in terms of hours and days of religious observance. Yes, small shops sell at all times but your farangness makes you a tasty target, even if you are not there at the time of the raid.

We had copies made of all the company licences (real licences locked away - good copies on display) and fancy framed details of our farang work permits for the businesses at the different locations compiled and notarized (company lawyer put a rubber stamp on them in Thai and stapled his business card to each) that comprised The Raid Action Pack! All staff were briefed that should a raid take place their were to not admit anything but call one of the senior Thai staff who would invoke our police contact. On the one time it occurred (can't recall who turned up) no farang were there and the raiders were turned away by phone call because our police contact was bigger than their police contact.

And that is the best investment you can make; nurture a powerful a friendly local person of influence. You need to balance the depth of this in terms of return on investment or whether you will self-insure which can mean a working slush fund or every licence you might be expected to have and legal funds to fight a case.

There are plenty of cases of music licence (Thai music vs farang music and live vs broadcast or CD) scam raids to read up in this forum and others and in general (IMHO) it's a bluff game that scammers do well because they are well rehearsed in it's execution and are playing from a mob handed crew normally against only a few lowly paid staff and a farang up against a wall. Who do you think is going to win?

So being prepared in terms of having photocopies to give with something fancy written on it - our old lawyer's card look great with the Thai embalms in embossed gold and a rubber stamp neatly marking each page. Probably meant little in legal terms but when you are facing scammers if you don't behave like every other easy target you are not so tempting any more. If your response is to call your lawyer or the police contact again you are not acting like a subservient puppy showing his belly to pacify a soi dog, so include these ideas in your response plan in which your Thai partner needs to buy into even through their response will be "oh we are a small business no one will bother us".

In my office I had something of an ace card directly visible as anyone came in, a picture of me sitting next to the Mayor of Pattaya at a wedding party. Something to consider that Thailand is not all about pieces of paper and licences, but contacts and nurturing relationships. In our village I have always ensured that when necessary we provide lifts by car to various old ladies that are friends of the MIL, not always convenient but they are the mothers of the local builder, village head and a few other people that are useful to me. Cost to my wife and I is minimal yet the payback is valuable.

So when you neuterer you contacts don't be so blunt as to go straight for cash or Blue Label, consider if their kids support a particular football team or something like that.

Word of warning, I've been close to similar small shop enterprises (I.E. they are friends of ours) that have experienced a few thefts where the perpetrators could only have been regular customers; expensive mobiles on two occasions and once 7,000 Baht from an unlocked cash drawer. Most thieves are opportunistic so don't give them the opportunity.

BTW I don't think getting a legal TV licence for public showing of sports will be viable - as I recall the cost is high and in many cases the events are licensed per game/match/race. Paying the ranking local police boss is probably cheaper in the long run.

I also recall a "fee" for displaying advertising in any non-Thai language, that might have been a Pattaya City local scam, but for a little thought advertising in a non-linguistic graphic can save some money.

PM if you want a few more thoughts.

[BruceSmith]

The music police are scam artists.

It doesn't matter what regulations you comply with, they will still ask for money.

The "music police" did Mae Rim last month.

Why not open now, but don't play music or TV.

The music police may be scam artists, but the licence for playing music is for real.

I didn't read all of the other answers before posting.......

Edited September 3, 2013 by BruceSmith

[CMKiwi]

Thanks for the replies guys, it seems that the best bet is to baffle them with bullshit or play the ¨My pop is bigger than your pop¨ routine. I do realise TIT and are trying to play by their rules..... knowing full well that they change the rules with every breath of wind.

[Gonzo the Face]

On behalf of your Thai Ms/partner , you are to be commended for looking into the details as you have outlined.

Having said that I am a bit concerned by your thought process.

Someone going into such detail as you have, surely has a capable lawyer. Why are you asking these questions to the members of this forum? Many of the Tv'ers on this forum are my customers and you no doubt have followed the forum for some time, would you not think it wiser to get legal advice from your lawyer than our expat or non legalese fellow members???

Just as a hopeful suggestion, I would be concerned more about your personal involvement. in the operation. Strongly suggest you look into a work permit , if you do not yet have one. Over the many years I have known quite a few expats who were just "advisors" and got caught with a towell or some such , and were shuttled out.

Please be careful and best of luck to you and the Ms.

[sawadee1947]

I hope it's NOT PUBLIC VIEWING......this takes place at FUNERALS....!

[sustento]

Lol, its a phrase (That was used a lot during a certain war. At that time it was not wise to trust someone of Japanese decent.)

There are many phrases. And the people who are the butt of them don't care for them, regardless of their commonality or if they are said with a smile. As a business owner, it's a good idea not to offend any particular group. It just doesn't pay in the long run.

Im not aware of any Japanese expat community here or in fact anywhere in CM,

There is a rather large Japanese expat community in Chiang Mai, and it's growing daily. There are several Japanese factories outside of Chiang Mai that all have Japanese middle management, with these managers and their families living in Hillside 4, Nakornping Condo, Riverside Condo, etc. There is the "Japanese Long Stay Culture Organization" on the lobby floor of Nakornping Condo. According to the Japanese Consulate, there are almost 4,000 Japanese currently living in Chiang Mai.

And then there's all the golfers...

[scorecard]

On behalf of your Thai Ms/partner , you are to be commended for looking into the details as you have outlined.

Having said that I am a bit concerned by your thought process.

Someone going into such detail as you have, surely has a capable lawyer. Why are you asking these questions to the members of this forum? Many of the Tv'ers on this forum are my customers and you no doubt have followed the forum for some time, would you not think it wiser to get legal advice from your lawyer than our expat or non legalese fellow members???

Just as a hopeful suggestion, I would be concerned more about your personal involvement. in the operation. Strongly suggest you look into a work permit , if you do not yet have one. Over the many years I have known quite a few expats who were just "advisors" and got caught with a towell or some such , and were shuttled out.

Please be careful and best of luck to you and the Ms.

Agree with gonzo, get some advice from a lawyer.

Since your focused on details (getting all the ducks in a row, as you mentioned), I'm guessing your getting all the official / correct business registrations processed, and you do need some advice to ensure you have all the registrations, they are all in the correct categories etc., (can be a bit of a minefield).

So surely the lawyer knows the answers about TV, music, etc., or knows how to find the correct answers to these questions.

And best wishes for success in your new venture, perhaps later (if allowed by TV rules) you could share your address.

Edited September 3, 2013 by scorecard

[CMKiwi]

How stupid of me to not remember the golfers..... the wealthy Japanese love the game. And they are welcome to it. Id rather watch paint dry.

Im not a bigot nor am I prejudice, but was simply using an old well known saying. Yes time has moved on etc etc

If my comment offended some people then so be it. Whats the other saying? You cant please all the people all the time and I must admit I am well sick of all this PC <deleted>. Its the missus business and Im supporting her, heaven help anyone that tries to get in her way!

Thanks to all those with positive comments and Gonzo your points are truly noted.

[monty]

Licenses for music are rather easy.

For Western music the main company is : http://www.mpcmusic.co.th/en/index.php?menu=

For TV, they do not have a license per se. Basically you need to get a special subscription with a content provider, for public showing.

The main player at the moment is CTH, due to them carrying all the EPL games.

It has been reported that prices depend on the size of your screens, with most big flatscreens coming in at 3,500 Baht/month, and a projector at 5,000 Baht/month (instead of the 899/month for home viewing).

Call them directly for more info.

Truevisions has similar commercial subscriptions. Although True never made a problem installing a set in a commercial place on a home subscription!

It seems CTH is more pro-active, in refusing to do installations in public places unless the proper commercial package is subscribed to!

They are probably trying to maximize revenue, trying to recoup their huge investment in the EPL rights!

Also stands to reason that sometime in the future they will start to actively find out places showing the EPL through different sources then their feeds.

[ableguy]

Too cheap to talk to a lawyer ???

[CMKiwi]

Interesting to hear you backing up what Ive been told about TV licences. I too learnt that CTH is now pretty much the only outfit to show the league games. True used to have some games but obviously didnt bid enough to carry on with their 'ownership' of broadcasting.

Thanks for your input.....off to see the lawyer in a few days and get everything sorted prior to opening.

Thanks everyone for your input and influence..... much appreciated.

[monty]

Too cheap to talk to a lawyer ???

Unfortunately the advice lawyers give is not always reliable.

[Chicog]

Interesting to hear you backing up what Ive been told about TV licences. I too learnt that CTH is now pretty much the only outfit to show the league games. True used to have some games but obviously didnt bid enough to carry on with their 'ownership' of broadcasting.

Thanks for your input.....off to see the lawyer in a few days and get everything sorted prior to opening.

Thanks everyone for your input and influence..... much appreciated.

And the bit about charging per TV and size of TV is also true.