Syria's Assad says Western strike could trigger regional war

[SinglePot]

So Syria becomes a modern day VietNam.

Only this time the enemy is Islam instead of Communism.

[boomerangutang]

Our Middle Eastern brethren get creative:

* Iran's INSA news service reported in January that officials in

Shiraz had acquired a finger-amputation machine to perhaps

streamline the gruesome punishment often meted out to convicted

thieves. (A masked enforcer turns a guillotine-like wheel to slice

off the finger in the manner of a rotary saw.) Iran is already known

for its reliance on extreme Islamic Sharia, which prescribes

amputations, public lashings, and death by stoning, and Middle East

commentators believe the government will now step up its

amputating of fingers, even for the crime of adultery. [Daily

Telegraph (London), 1-28-2013]

[Scott]

Post about moderation has been deleted as well as numerous replies to it.

[simple1]

*Deleted post edited out*

How long do you think this loose political coalition will hold together? The Tawheed Brigade (moderates) who made the announcement has previously proposed an Islamist state governed by Sharia Law, so nothing new in that regard.

They will hold together long enough to get Sharia law established, knock off all the un believers then move on to another country to take over.

Seems that's what you would like.

The various factions are constantly changing alliances & launching attacks on each other for control of territory. The current opposition leader, Ahmad Jarba, represents a powerful tribal group (Shamma), supported by Saudi Arabia & by extension the US, so we will see how events unfold. Your comment of a personal nature is rubbish.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Scott

[LawrenceChee]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24051440

This article highlights the plight of the Christians which make up about 10% of the population in Syria

At the start of the conflict, they were very reluctant to take sides but as this civil war continues, it seems the majority of the Christians are taking the due of Assad and even assisting the government forces in the fight as they fear the Islamists taking over and forcing them our of the country, similar to Iraq situation in 2003.

And in another story today, 11 Islamists group has rejected the move to recognize the freedom fighters as they were not representative of their views

It's a complex one for anyone to wrangle out without the spillover effect on the neighboring countries

[boomerangutang]

Three growth businesses in Syria:

>>> medical bandages

>>> glass for windows, vehicles and buildings

>>> flags. It seems each neighborhood, even down to house-to-house level, has its own exclusive alliance. Perhaps it would ease ID matters if they had their own flags. One problem though; alliances are mutable, sometimes changing day to day.

[FDog]

Three growth businesses in Syria:

>>> medical bandages

>>> glass for windows, vehicles and buildings

>>> flags. It seems each neighborhood, even down to house-to-house level, has its own exclusive alliance. Perhaps it would ease ID matters if they had their own flags. One problem though; alliances are mutable, sometimes changing day to day.

Plenty of work for bricklayers as well.

[FDog]

Looks like the permanent members of the UN are on the brink of an agreement on the chemical weapons issue in Syria. Well done, nearly

[simple1]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24051440

This article highlights the plight of the Christians which make up about 10% of the population in Syria

At the start of the conflict, they were very reluctant to take sides but as this civil war continues, it seems the majority of the Christians are taking the due of Assad and even assisting the government forces in the fight as they fear the Islamists taking over and forcing them our of the country, similar to Iraq situation in 2003.

And in another story today, 11 Islamists group has rejected the move to recognize the freedom fighters as they were not representative of their views

It's a complex one for anyone to wrangle out without the spillover effect on the neighboring countries

The Syrian Christians have for a long time been a part of the Assad dictatorship with MPs & Ministers in the Assad government. Syrian Christians are officers & fighters in the Syrian Army, they have been identified in Syrian Army attacks on Israel.

I understand the Syrian Christians would be motivated to protect their position within society & the dictatorship, but they are not an innocent party to the conflict.

Edited September 26, 2013 by simple1

[Chicog]

That RT cracks me up. They should just call it VPT and be done with it.

[boomerangutang]

That RT cracks me up. They should just call it VPT and be done with it.

r u playing with your alphabet soup pieces again?

[Chicog]

That RT cracks me up. They should just call it VPT and be done with it.

r u playing with your alphabet soup pieces again?

Oh sorry, I should elaborate.

RT=Russia Today

VPT= Take a wild guess.

[Sing_Sling]

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

Edmund Burke

Irish orator, philosopher, & politician (1729 - 1797)

And in the meantime, the Obama bashers criticise for lack of action.

PS. Don't hold your breath waiting for the nations of the Arab League.

I guess we can take Burke at his word . . . selectively . . . like Ruanda, El Salvador, Ethiopia etc.... or does it only count in this instance?

Arab League? These tinpot despots are too afraid to do much as they are as bad or worse than Assad . . . and as for Obama inaction bashers? Hardly. I'm glad he isn't bombing.

So Syria becomes a modern day VietNam.

Only this time the enemy is Islam instead of Communism.

It could well, but the enemy is whatever is the soup du jour

[Sing_Sling]

That RT cracks me up. They should just call it VPT and be done with it.

r u playing with your alphabet soup pieces again?

Oh sorry, I should elaborate.

RT=Russia Today

VPT= Take a wild guess.

alt=whistling.gif width=19 height=18>

RT is obvious . . . You still haven't elaborated, despite the whistling smiley

[SinglePot]

Vermont Public Times?

[hawker9000]

That RT cracks me up. They should just call it VPT and be done with it.

r u playing with your alphabet soup pieces again?

Oh sorry, I should elaborate.

RT=Russia Today

VPT= Take a wild guess.

alt=whistling.gif width=19 height=18>

RT is obvious . . . You still haven't elaborated, despite the whistling smiley

I think he's saying RT is nothing more than a mouthpiece for a certain very prominent Russian thug...

[Sing_Sling]

r u playing with your alphabet soup pieces again?

Oh sorry, I should elaborate.

RT=Russia Today

VPT= Take a wild guess.

alt=whistling.gif width=19 height=18>

RT is obvious . . . You still haven't elaborated, despite the whistling smiley

I think he's saying RT is nothing more than a mouthpiece for a certain very prominent Russian thug...

Ah, got it. Yes, indeed . . .

[Exsexyman]

As another poster has already pointed out, eleven different factions of western backed Islamist 'rebels' have rejected out of hand that the opposition to Assad be 'moderate'. Eleven! Most, if not all, affiliated to and supporters of the doctrine of Al Qaeda, all with the same goal, ie, to install an Islamic fundamentalist regime in Syria, Sharia law, the purging of unbelievers etc etc. There were an estimated 2.5 million Christians alone in Syria, i'm sure there are not so many now! Thousands have been forced to flee, many many more have been slaughtered in the most vile manner imaginable by these Western backed Jihadist 'rebels'. Captured Christians who refused to instantly convert to Islam had their throats slit in front of their families. In the ancient town of Maaloua where the people still speak Aramaic, one of the oldest Christian languages and has 17 Christian churches is now a ghost town. All 5,000 Christians have fled, those that didn't manage to get away were killed. Churches have been damaged, Christian relics and pictures destroyed by these 'rebels' who are doing the West's bidding. Christian nuns trying to protect orphan children in a monastery attacked and pinned down by snipers.

Saudi Arabia and Qatar, (those bastions of democracy), are bankrolling these Jihadists in Syria to the tune of millions of dollars as well as arming them. Saudi Arabia have even released prisoners of various Islamic nationalities from their death row prisons, and granted them a pardon to go and join the Jihad in Syria. Cui bono!

Apart from these 'rebels' rejecting the western calls for moderation, it must not be forgotten that the day after the US - Russia - Syrian Government agreement for Syria to hand over their chemical weapons, the leaders of these 'rebels' rejected it out of hand, saying they would not co-operate, and would stop the inspectors from carrying out their work. Of course if / when the inspectors come under attack whilst carrying out their work we all know who will get the blame! And of course there will be many, including more than a few on this forum, who will don their blinkers and be falling over each other to swallow this nonsensical narrative because it suits their agenda to do so.

[SinglePot]

So the sensible pragmatic approach would be to leave Assad in power to stop the spread of this Islam fundamentalism.

Have I got the drift of this argument correct?

If I have, does it really matter if chemical weapons are being used by either party?

[MikeOboe57]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24051440

This article highlights the plight of the Christians which make up about 10% of the population in Syria

At the start of the conflict, they were very reluctant to take sides but as this civil war continues, it seems the majority of the Christians are taking the due of Assad and even assisting the government forces in the fight as they fear the Islamists taking over and forcing them our of the country, similar to Iraq situation in 2003.

And in another story today, 11 Islamists group has rejected the move to recognize the freedom fighters as they were not representative of their views

It's a complex one for anyone to wrangle out without the spillover effect on the neighboring countries

The Syrian Christians have for a long time been a part of the Assad dictatorship with MPs & Ministers in the Assad government. Syrian Christians are officers & fighters in the Syrian Army, they have been identified in Syrian Army attacks on Israel.

I understand the Syrian Christians would be motivated to protect their position within society & the dictatorship, but they are not an innocent party to the conflict.

So this makes the Christian Community in Syria a legitimate target of the Jihadist scumbags? And as we are now revitalizing the old "WWII United Nations" doctrine that the civilians of enemy states are "legitimate targets" why all the fuss about alleged "massacres" of civilians by the Syrian Government? Aren't the civilians supporting the rebels also "not an innocent party to the conflict"?

Or are you simply trying to cover up the uncomfortable truth that the beloved "freedom fighters" are in fact conducting ethnic cleansing, massacres, torture and kidnappings on a large scale, willfully ignored by the Western media, who eagerly blow any "Pallywood style" reports of alleged Government massacres out of proportion?

[SinglePot]

Islam v Christians.......with Assad and Putin and their agendas mixed up in it?

Or the free world wishing to get rid of Assad and the Islam fundamentalists cashing in on the opportunity?

Clarification of this Syrian chessboard appreciated.

Anybody know the facts?

[JemJem]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24051440

This article highlights the plight of the Christians which make up about 10% of the population in Syria

At the start of the conflict, they were very reluctant to take sides but as this civil war continues, it seems the majority of the Christians are taking the due of Assad and even assisting the government forces in the fight as they fear the Islamists taking over and forcing them our of the country, similar to Iraq situation in 2003.

And in another story today, 11 Islamists group has rejected the move to recognize the freedom fighters as they were not representative of their views

It's a complex one for anyone to wrangle out without the spillover effect on the neighboring countries

The Syrian Christians have for a long time been a part of the Assad dictatorship with MPs & Ministers in the Assad government. Syrian Christians are officers & fighters in the Syrian Army, they have been identified in Syrian Army attacks on Israel.

I understand the Syrian Christians would be motivated to protect their position within society & the dictatorship, but they are not an innocent party to the conflict.

Simple1, that was quite a harsh generalisation.

Please look at Syria'a neighbor, Iraq. Just do some search about how many Iraqi Christians were killed or had to flee Iraq due to safety worries, after the fall of Saddam. The number's very high.

I want people to move away from bigotry; this is not just for Simple1; I also see posters making bigoted remarks against Muslims; against Thai katoeys, against Africans in Bangkok. Only a tiny minority of Muslims are terrorists or support terrorism; only a tiny minority of Thai transsexuals rob foreigners; only a tiny minority of Bangkok Africans are involved in illegal things. Come on; some of you folks make bigoted generalisations, and then, many people get offended and also, we don't get a fruitful discussion here.

Wouldn't it be better if we instead discussed, for example, how militant Islamism can best be fought against, how crime in Bangkok can most effectively be reduced etc.

Anyway, the situation in Syria is very sad indeed. But, I repeat, the fall of Assad is NOT the answer, at this present climate ! US, Britain, France, Russia, China, Turkey, Iran and EU must get together, try to reach some kind of agreement on a broad ceasefire plan; and then get the Assad regime and the Free Syrian Army to go to the negotiation table.

On the field, it looks like it is sort of stalemate. The parties should realise that neither side is likely to achieve a significant win anytime soon.

I don't really like the Free Syrian Army, but if Assad and FSA reach some kind of deal, at least the jihadi groups will be left out and hopefully their non-Syrian people will be forced to leave Syria, and their local people will be forced to lay down their weapons. If the jihadis decide to continue the fight in Syria, then maybe both Assad's regime and FSA can fight them; and those two together can beat the jihadis easily. If necessary, the US can be involved briefly, in order to root out the jihadis.

[Publicus]

As another poster has already pointed out, eleven different factions of western backed Islamist 'rebels' have rejected out of hand that the opposition to Assad be 'moderate'. Eleven! Most, if not all, affiliated to and supporters of the doctrine of Al Qaeda, all with the same goal, ie, to install an Islamic fundamentalist regime in Syria, Sharia law, the purging of unbelievers etc etc. There were an estimated 2.5 million Christians alone in Syria, i'm sure there are not so many now! Thousands have been forced to flee, many many more have been slaughtered in the most vile manner imaginable by these Western backed Jihadist 'rebels'. Captured Christians who refused to instantly convert to Islam had their throats slit in front of their families. In the ancient town of Maaloua where the people still speak Aramaic, one of the oldest Christian languages and has 17 Christian churches is now a ghost town. All 5,000 Christians have fled, those that didn't manage to get away were killed. Churches have been damaged, Christian relics and pictures destroyed by these 'rebels' who are doing the West's bidding. Christian nuns trying to protect orphan children in a monastery attacked and pinned down by snipers.

Saudi Arabia and Qatar, (those bastions of democracy), are bankrolling these Jihadists in Syria to the tune of millions of dollars as well as arming them. Saudi Arabia have even released prisoners of various Islamic nationalities from their death row prisons, and granted them a pardon to go and join the Jihad in Syria. Cui bono!

Apart from these 'rebels' rejecting the western calls for moderation, it must not be forgotten that the day after the US - Russia - Syrian Government agreement for Syria to hand over their chemical weapons, the leaders of these 'rebels' rejected it out of hand, saying they would not co-operate, and would stop the inspectors from carrying out their work. Of course if / when the inspectors come under attack whilst carrying out their work we all know who will get the blame! And of course there will be many, including more than a few on this forum, who will don their blinkers and be falling over each other to swallow this nonsensical narrative because it suits their agenda to do so.

And exactly what is the agenda that suits "more than a few on this forum?"

Also, the 11 factions your refer to are not, contrary to your assertion, "western backed." Some have been affiliated with the Free Syrian Army but are not a part of it and certainly are not receiving Western arms, equipment or support. This is the dangerous matter everyone speaks about, I.,e., the West supporting the FSA but its advanced weapons to the FSA falling into the hands of the militant groups such as Liwaa al-Tawheed among the others.

The break by what are now 13 militant rebel groups is anyway against the Western backed political leaders based in Turkey. It is not a military schism among the varied rebel groups in Syria, to include several militant groups affiliated with the Western and Arab supported Supreme Military Council whose principal force is the FSA and its affiliated militant groups.

In short, the break is a political one - it is not a military break.

Just earlier this week the al-Tawheed force based in and around Aleppo relocated to another northern city to join the FSA to drive Jihadists out of the city just days after they had taken control of the lightly defended center. This demonstrated a new cooperation and strategy among the rebel groups to move decisive force to where it is needed rather than to continue to work separately and without coordination.

The 13 rebel groups made the break with the Western-Arab supported Syrian Opposition Coalition in Turkey because they feared it is moving toward negotiations and that it is not in realistic contact with the fighting on the ground in Syria, and is therefore operating based on unrealistic information, assumptions, perspectives.

The militant rebels may well have a point.

[boomerangutang]

Islam v Christians.......with Assad and Putin and their agendas mixed up in it?

Or the free world wishing to get rid of Assad and the Islam fundamentalists cashing in on the opportunity?

Clarification of this Syrian chessboard appreciated.

Anybody know the facts?

'Chessboard' is a nice way to frame it. I see it more as an on-going back alley dog fight, involving every mongrel within yelping distance. Jem Jem reasonably suggests we posters shouldn't devolve to bias and type-casting. I can be that way if I choose to show my decent side, but in the case of Syria, it's a chore to be nice. Those folks are stuck in a messed up region, bereft of habitat and natural resources. It's a relatively small bit of real estate, and they've been at each others' throats, constantly, since before they invented writing on clay tablets.

[simple1]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24051440

This article highlights the plight of the Christians which make up about 10% of the population in Syria

At the start of the conflict, they were very reluctant to take sides but as this civil war continues, it seems the majority of the Christians are taking the due of Assad and even assisting the government forces in the fight as they fear the Islamists taking over and forcing them our of the country, similar to Iraq situation in 2003.

And in another story today, 11 Islamists group has rejected the move to recognize the freedom fighters as they were not representative of their views

It's a complex one for anyone to wrangle out without the spillover effect on the neighboring countries

The Syrian Christians have for a long time been a part of the Assad dictatorship with MPs & Ministers in the Assad government. Syrian Christians are officers & fighters in the Syrian Army, they have been identified in Syrian Army attacks on Israel.

I understand the Syrian Christians would be motivated to protect their position within society & the dictatorship, but they are not an innocent party to the conflict.

Simple1, that was quite a harsh generalisation.

Please look at Syria'a neighbor, Iraq. Just do some search about how many Iraqi Christians were killed or had to flee Iraq due to safety worries, after the fall of Saddam. The number's very high.

I want people to move away from bigotry; this is not just for Simple1; I also see posters making bigoted remarks against Muslims; against Thai katoeys, against Africans in Bangkok. Only a tiny minority of Muslims are terrorists or support terrorism; only a tiny minority of Thai transsexuals rob foreigners; only a tiny minority of Bangkok Africans are involved in illegal things. Come on; some of you folks make bigoted generalisations, and then, many people get offended and also, we don't get a fruitful discussion here.

Wouldn't it be better if we instead discussed, for example, how militant Islamism can best be fought against, how crime in Bangkok can most effectively be reduced etc.

Anyway, the situation in Syria is very sad indeed. But, I repeat, the fall of Assad is NOT the answer, at this present climate ! US, Britain, France, Russia, China, Turkey, Iran and EU must get together, try to reach some kind of agreement on a broad ceasefire plan; and then get the Assad regime and the Free Syrian Army to go to the negotiation table.

On the field, it looks like it is sort of stalemate. The parties should realise that neither side is likely to achieve a significant win anytime soon.

I don't really like the Free Syrian Army, but if Assad and FSA reach some kind of deal, at least the jihadi groups will be left out and hopefully their non-Syrian people will be forced to leave Syria, and their local people will be forced to lay down their weapons. If the jihadis decide to continue the fight in Syria, then maybe both Assad's regime and FSA can fight them; and those two together can beat the jihadis easily. If necessary, the US can be involved briefly, in order to root out the jihadis.

Can I suggest you read the article at the URL below which talks to the matter of Iraqi Christians? I do not agree with all the commentary, you may be surprised as to the realities of failure of action when events were unfolding, by the coalition, to protect the Iraqi Christians. Interestingly it is alleged in the article that the Iraqi majority Muslim Kurds provided most of the assistance to fleeing Iraqi Christians.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/how-the-iraq-war-became-a-war-on-christians/

Non-combatants being slaughtered by both sides in Syria is terrible, but it seems the Syrian Army and the militias are currently the primary guilty party by numbers killed. I don't get why the Syrian Christian community should be specifically singled out for compassion when they have been fighting with Assad regime's very cruel dictatorship for years, providing political support etc.

As you say & others say let's hope a political solution can be negotiated, but with Assad's repeated statements that he will not step-down and the rebel moderate leaders saying they will not negotiate with Assad, currently a major challenge

[SinglePot]

Islam v Christians.......with Assad and Putin and their agendas mixed up in it?

Or the free world wishing to get rid of Assad and the Islam fundamentalists cashing in on the opportunity?

Clarification of this Syrian chessboard appreciated.

Anybody know the facts?

'Chessboard' is a nice way to frame it. I see it more as an on-going back alley dog fight, involving every mongrel within yelping distance. Jem Jem reasonably suggests we posters shouldn't devolve to bias and type-casting. I can be that way if I choose to show my decent side, but in the case of Syria, it's a chore to be nice. Those folks are stuck in a messed up region, bereft of habitat and natural resources. It's a relatively small bit of real estate, and they've been at each others' throats, constantly, since before they invented writing on clay tablets.

Thanks.

Given the history and the nature of the problem, unlikely therefore that the West will be able to sort it.

Apart from by raising the whole bl**** place to the ground and starting again.

So. Leave em to it, protect economic interests as best we can and walk out of this bl**** mess.

As for protecting economic interests, wheel and deal. Play a canny game.

Forget Western ideals of democracy and human rights.

Assad and his enemies don't get it.

[hawker9000]

Islam v Christians.......with Assad and Putin and their agendas mixed up in it?

Or the free world wishing to get rid of Assad and the Islam fundamentalists cashing in on the opportunity?

Clarification of this Syrian chessboard appreciated.

Anybody know the facts?

'Chessboard' is a nice way to frame it. I see it more as an on-going back alley dog fight, involving every mongrel within yelping distance. Jem Jem reasonably suggests we posters shouldn't devolve to bias and type-casting. I can be that way if I choose to show my decent side, but in the case of Syria, it's a chore to be nice. Those folks are stuck in a messed up region, bereft of habitat and natural resources. It's a relatively small bit of real estate, and they've been at each others' throats, constantly, since before they invented writing on clay tablets.

Thanks.

Given the history and the nature of the problem, unlikely therefore that the West will be able to sort it.

Apart from by raising the whole bl**** place to the ground and starting again.

So. Leave em to it, protect economic interests as best we can and walk out of this bl**** mess.

As for protecting economic interests, wheel and deal. Play a canny game.

Forget Western ideals of democracy and human rights.

Assad and his enemies don't get it.

Now I understand the view that says this is a situation that threatens to spill over borders and inflame the entire ME, but pick any border at most any time and that seems to be perenially true of this part of the world; if not today then tomorrow, and if not then, then for sure the day after that... Time to change the paradigm and NOT involve ourselves for once; maybe time to give the America-haters a break from their ceaseless toil. ...or at least not spend American lives and money serving only to stir them up further. If the feared regional conflagration happens, it's most likely a bomb that would have gone off anyway, with or without our help.

[SinglePot]

And I ain't going there on holiday.

Shame. Damascus used to be wonderful I am told.

Holy Land?

Jeez.

[Scott]

Damascus is a lovely and interesting city, but it might be best to wait a while to plan a holiday there.

[hawker9000]

And I ain't going there on holiday.

Shame. Damascus used to be wonderful I am told.

Holy Land?

Jeez.

I've heard the same said, many times, about Beirut.