1 million baht a year saved in the Bank , stop wasting your time in Thailand !

[bermondburi]

This isn't meant as a dig at people teaching in Thailand because I taught there myself for many years and I know that everyone's situation is different . Older people will be less inclined to move somewhere else ect.

I have a degree in a non-related subject and a TESOL , that's it . When I was teaching in Thailand I was probably earning about 70,000 a month by the time I left including private teaching at a language school at the weekend . But I have a wife and 2 kids and we never saved that much , and obviously I was working 7 days a week too. At this stage in my life I need to be saving for the future . something that far too many teachers in their 30s and 40s in Thailand need to be thinking about .

Anyway , about a year ago I moved to Saudi Arabia to start teaching in an international program there. Best thing I ever did . Great free 2 bedroom apartment , no bills and a good salary . There is also a lot of work on the side at 30-35 GBP an hour . In fact , my whole family lives off the private tuition and I bank all of my salary each month ! Saudi Arabia may seem like an extreme option but it's okay here really . If you want to get your head down and save for a few years then there can't be many places where you can do as well as here .

So to those people who feel that they are stuck in a rut in Thailand , look at you options . There are alternatives . I only have a degree in Fine Art and a TESOL . If I can do it then you can too.

[pastafarian]

Reminds me of an American friend who left to teach in Kuwait for 1yr to clear his student debts, he hated every minute of it and couldn't wait to leave, now back living/working in Thailand where he's happy. Definitely an option for those that want to save some money but for many being happy and enjoying life is more important.

[bermondburi]

I never said I wasn't happy hear , I quite like it here in many ways . Everyone's situation is different though. I have my wife and 2 kids with me too which makes a difference. I also have a lot more freetime here than I did in Thailand . I've noticed that the people who find it difficult here are those in their 20s and those who are single . Also those who have issues with Islam . I wouldn't want to stay here for ever but when we do go back to Thailand it's nice to know that we're going to be in a great position financially . The reason I made this post was that I came across so many teachers in Thailand who just seemed to be drifting through life with hardly any thought as to what they were going to do later on . Do you really want to be working for 30-40K a month in your 30s and 40s when these should be some of your best earning years .

[sirchai]

A great post, indeed! It's time to wake up for some people who might think somebody will come to rescue them, once the wife's gone and times are pretty rough.

Let's face it. A teaching salary in Thailand is mostly barely enough to pay for monthly expenses, including having a family, car, etc...

I just got hit with a 3,600 baht car repair bill ( sounds like such a freaking small amount, what I'd spent 15 years ago in half a day here) and can already imagine that I won't be able to see the ocean in October.

Considering that so many people in LOS don't even have a health insurance, a real good point. I'll win the lottery, our local monk has a good connection to the other world.-

Edited September 4, 2013 by sirchai

[Phuket electrician]

Good post, where did you find this job?

Sounds interesting.

[aTomsLife]

I'm moving on myself. Honestly, the money comes second for me to the school/classroom environment. Don't want to highjack the thread so, in short, let me just say I don't like teaching here -- at all. Not even if I was making 60K+ a month.

How are the students in Saudi? Are they diligent, respectful? Are your bosses willing to engage you in constructive conversations?

I'm applying to an M.Ed program right now, but if my plan falls through, I am giving serious consideration to taking a job in Saudi, or somewhere else in the M.E. Any other info you can share is much appreciated. Thanks.

[smccolley]

I spent 18 months on and off in Riyadh and Jeddah, and I can't think of a salary that would make me want to spend any time there again. There is not enough disk space in this forum to contain all the attrocities and ignorance I experienced while I was there. Life is to short to put up with the kind of predjudice and criminal stupidity in the name of religion I experienced there. Even Kuwait was better!

I took a huge pay cut to move to thailand and I have never regretted it. I probably can never retire, but the work is not bad and the life in thailand blows away north america.

What do others think?

[aTomsLife]

There is not enough disk space in this forum to contain all the attrocities and ignorance I experienced while I was there. Life is to short to put up with the kind of predjudice and criminal stupidity in the name of religion I experienced there.

Is there enough disk space for at least one example? Thanks.

[Suradit69]

How are the students in Saudi? Are they diligent, respectful?

Teaching in the Middle East can mean teaching national students or teaching students whose parents are expat workers. Totally different situations.

I taught for about 10 years at the UAE University and Higher Colleges of Technology and was head at an international school in another country for another couple of years. For the most part I enjoyed the experience, the free housing and other perks, but it can wear you down. Many of the students are anything but diligent. They can be quite polite and engaging, but many people find them to be quite difficult to deal with. The students in the UAE were generally regarded as better than in some of the other countries in terms of being polite and somewhat cooperative. Kuwait was generally regarded as the worst. Most of the really good male, and to a lesser degree female, students got funding to attend universities outside the country. Those who attended post secondary institutions in the country were often the less able and less motivated students. Women are greatly restricted In terms of personal freedom, so they were less likely to be allowed to travel abroad for schooling.

Ultimately, it's largely a matter of your personality, as is the case in any classroom situation. I enjoyed the experience and now regret that I chose to leave when I did rather than stay on for a few more years.

On the other hand I saw a fair number of people who hated every minute of the time they were there, who had endless problems with students and administration, and some who just took off before their contracts ended. When I first went there the salary, housing, automobile, furniture & travel allowances, medical coverage & all were excellent, and the out-of-pocket cost of living was pretty low, so most of my salary and gratuity went into the bank and investments. By the time I left, the reduced perks, small salary adjustments and the increased cost of living was nowhere near as great, especially for new hires.

If you enjoy it, life in that part of the world can be very nice and you'll be a short flight away from Thailand for holidays. But the money won't mean much if you find the work unpleasant ... and there are so many different situations you might find yourself in, it's hard to predict how things will work out for you.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Suradit69

[aTomsLife]

Thanks for the detailed reply, Suradit69. I assume there isn't a no-fail policy in place in the UAE. I can't help but think that would motivate students to at least do the bare minimum.

Maybe I've just been unlucky in Thailand, but the students I've taught here are some of the laziest, most undisciplined people I've ever met in my life. I feel like just about anywhere else would be an improvement. (I'm not talking about life in Thailand in general. Only about teaching here.)

Edited September 4, 2013 by aTomsLife

[Suradit69]

Thanks for the detailed reply, Suradit69. I assume there isn't a no-fail policy in place in the UAE. I can't help but think that would motivate students to at least do the bare minimum.

Maybe I've just been unlucky here in Thailand, but the majority of the students I've taught are the laziest most undisciplined people I've ever met in my life. I can't help but feel that just about anywhere else would be an improvement. (I'm not talking about life in Thailand in general. Only about teaching here.)

Our intake at the first year level at the Higher Colleges of Technology supposedly filtered out the poorer students and set minimum expectations in English language ability, but we got a fair number of students who could speak no English and weren't that great shakes in any other subject either. They didn't survive the first year, but depending on who their fathers were they sometimes were allowed several attempts to complete the first year. Obviously the testing at secondary school was sometimes not the most meaningful with school teachers assisting students or students sitting exams in place of their friends or relatives.

Being lesser human beings, one was never permitted to record or report a failing mark for a royal personage, but that diplomatic two-step was left to others.

So failing did occur, but it didn't occur as soon as might have been wished. Thinking mainly of the male post secondary students, many of those who drifted away did so out of personal frustration rather than institutional policy.

The staff and student parking lots put things in perspective. Most of the staff drove Hondas and Toyotas, while the student parking lots were chock-a-block with Hummers, Lexuses, Benzes and a good deal more that I wouldn't be able to name. There's not much to motivate guys who have never had to lift a finger and who had everything handed to them and who were pretty much assured of a good paying job regardless.

As I say it can wear you down, but if you keep your sense of humor and get lucky with where you land, it can be a really nice life. And I really mean it when I say that the people there can be quite respectful, polite and generous. And oddly, most students were very keen to get good exam results and to be praised by the teacher for their performance ... but their ideas on how to achieve those happy outcomes rarely involved hard work or diligence.

And don't forget to apply for a government license that will permit you to buy booze from the few places allowed to sell it. You'll need it.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Suradit69

[sirchai]

Good post, where did you find this job?

Sounds interesting.

Have you been here recently?>

[bermondburi]

Good post, where did you find this job?

Sounds interesting.

Got it through an agency based in the UK.

[bermondburi]

I'm moving on myself. Honestly, the money comes second for me to the school/classroom environment. Don't want to highjack the thread so, in short, let me just say I don't like teaching here -- at all. Not even if I was making 60K+ a month.

How are the students in Saudi? Are they diligent, respectful? Are your bosses willing to engage you in constructive conversations?

I'm applying to an M.Ed program right now, but if my plan falls through, I am giving serious consideration to taking a job in Saudi, or somewhere else in the M.E. Any other info you can share is much appreciated. Thanks.

I think a lot of it depends where you end up . It seems that prep year programs for uni can be a bit of a nightmare . I think I got lucky working in a school . I like the kids . They're quite nice in many ways and they're good fun .Yes you have bad and tiring days but that happens everywhere .

AS far as management goes , the Arab way of doing things can be frustrating at times , the wheels turn very slowly in Admin . They make your Thai admin look positively hyper !

My own school is in a period of big changes as it grows and hopefully changes for the better .

I think a lot of it depends on the type of person you are . Some people can put up with things and some can't . Some people hate the sound of the mosque and others sleep right through it . Some people get pissed off with the shops shutting for prayers others don't mind. It's not an easy place to live in some ways but it can be very easy in others . If I didn't have a family here I don't think I could do it ( for long anyway ) .

[bermondburi]

I spent 18 months on and off in Riyadh and Jeddah, and I can't think of a salary that would make me want to spend any time there again. There is not enough disk space in this forum to contain all the attrocities and ignorance I experienced while I was there. Life is to short to put up with the kind of predjudice and criminal stupidity in the name of religion I experienced there. Even Kuwait was better!

I took a huge pay cut to move to thailand and I have never regretted it. I probably can never retire, but the work is not bad and the life in thailand blows away north america.

What do others think?

Where were you working in Riyadh and what went wrong ?

[bermondburi]

Thanks for the detailed reply, Suradit69. I assume there isn't a no-fail policy in place in the UAE. I can't help but think that would motivate students to at least do the bare minimum.

Maybe I've just been unlucky here in Thailand, but the majority of the students I've taught are the laziest most undisciplined people I've ever met in my life. I can't help but feel that just about anywhere else would be an improvement. (I'm not talking about life in Thailand in general. Only about teaching here.)

Our intake at the first year level at the Higher Colleges of Technology supposedly filtered out the poorer students and set minimum expectations in English language ability, but we got a fair number of students who could speak no English and weren't that great shakes in any other subject either. They didn't survive the first year, but depending on who their fathers were they sometimes were allowed several attempts to complete the first year. Obviously the testing at secondary school was sometimes not the most meaningful with school teachers assisting students or students sitting exams in place of their friends or relatives.

Being lesser human beings, one was never permitted to record or report a failing mark for a royal personage, but that diplomatic two-step was left to others.

So failing did occur, but it didn't occur as soon as might have been wished. Thinking mainly of the male post secondary students, many of those who drifted away did so out of personal frustration rather than institutional policy.

The staff and student parking lots put things in perspective. Most of the staff drove Hondas and Toyotas, while the student parking lots were chock-a-block with Hummers, Lexuses, Benzes and a good deal more that I wouldn't be able to name. There's not much to motivate guys who have never had to lift a finger and who had everything handed to them and who were pretty much assured of a good paying job regardless.

As I say it can wear you down, but if you keep your sense of humor and get lucky with where you land, it can be a really nice life. And I really mean it when I say that the people there can be quite respectful, polite and generous. And oddly, most students were very keen to get good exam results and to be praised by the teacher for their performance ... but their ideas on how to achieve those happy outcomes rarely involved hard work or diligence.

And don't forget to apply for a government license that will permit you to buy booze from the few places allowed to sell it. You'll need it.

Booze is totally illegal in Saudi but most people make their own . I'm quite proud of my quality of wine . Not bad at all.

[wooloomooloo]

Maybe I've just been unlucky in Thailand, but the students I've taught here are some of the laziest, most undisciplined people I've ever met in my life. I feel like just about anywhere else would be an improvement

I'm not a teacher, but, isn't it teacher's job to motivate the pupils? If they don't inspire, has teacher failed or the pupil?

[BruceSmith]

Maybe I've just been unlucky in Thailand, but the students I've taught here are some of the laziest, most undisciplined people I've ever met in my life. I feel like just about anywhere else would be an improvement

I'm not a teacher, but, isn't it teacher's job to motivate the pupils? If they don't inspire, has teacher failed or the pupil?

Alchemists tried turning lead into gold - did they ever succeed?

BS

[wooloomooloo]

Maybe I've just been unlucky in Thailand, but the students I've taught here are some of the laziest, most undisciplined people I've ever met in my life. I feel like just about anywhere else would be an improvement

I'm not a teacher, but, isn't it teacher's job to motivate the pupils? If they don't inspire, has teacher failed or the pupil?

Alchemists tried turning lead into gold - did they ever succeed?

BS

Don't teach in Thailand if you gain no satisfaction or unable to make a change for the better.

[nottocus]

Million baht a year is good. You can save more than that in Hong Kong though if money is a major factor in where you work.

[krisb]

 

Thanks for the detailed reply, Suradit69.  I assume there isn't a no-fail policy in place in the UAE.  I can't help but think that would motivate students to at least do the bare minimum.  

 

Maybe I've just been unlucky here in Thailand, but the majority of the students I've taught are the laziest most undisciplined people I've ever met in my life.  I can't help but feel that just about anywhere else would be an improvement.  (I'm not talking about life in Thailand in general.  Only about teaching here.) 

 

Our intake at the first year level at the Higher Colleges of Technology supposedly filtered out the poorer students and set minimum expectations in English language ability, but we got a fair number of students who could speak no English and weren't that great shakes in any other subject either. They didn't survive the first year, but depending on who their fathers were they sometimes were allowed several attempts to complete the first year. Obviously the  testing at secondary school was sometimes not the most meaningful with school teachers assisting students or students sitting exams in place of their friends or relatives.

 

Being lesser human beings, one was never permitted to record or report a failing mark for a royal personage, but that diplomatic two-step was left to others.

 

So failing did occur, but it didn't occur as soon as might have been wished. Thinking mainly of the male post secondary students, many of those who drifted away did so out of personal frustration rather than institutional policy.

 

The staff and student parking lots put things in perspective. Most of the staff drove Hondas and Toyotas, while the student parking lots were chock-a-block with Hummers, Lexuses, Benzes and a good deal more that I wouldn't be able to name. There's not much to motivate guys who have never had to lift a finger and who had everything handed to them and who were pretty much assured of a good paying job regardless.

 

As I say it can wear you down, but if you keep your sense of humor and get lucky with where you land, it can be a really nice life. And I really mean it when I say that the people there can be quite respectful, polite and generous. And oddly, most students were very keen to get good exam results and to be praised by the teacher for their performance ... but their ideas on how to achieve those happy outcomes rarely involved hard work or diligence.

 

And don't forget to apply for a government license that will permit you to buy booze from the few places allowed to sell it. You'll need it.

 

Booze is totally illegal in Saudi but most people make their own . I'm quite proud of my quality of wine . Not bad at all.

 

 

i remember the episode of Banged up abroad about the guy who got caught making his own wine in Saudi Arabia. Be careful.

Op, how does your wife and kids find life there?

[pastafarian]

I spent 18 months on and off in Riyadh and Jeddah, and I can't think of a salary that would make me want to spend any time there again. There is not enough disk space in this forum to contain all the attrocities and ignorance I experienced while I was there. Life is to short to put up with the kind of predjudice and criminal stupidity in the name of religion I experienced there. Even Kuwait was better!

I took a huge pay cut to move to thailand and I have never regretted it. I probably can never retire, but the work is not bad and the life in thailand blows away north america.

What do others think?

That concurs with what my friend that taught in Kuwait said, he wanted to leave after just a few months but completed the full year contract for the money. He said the students were much worse than any he'd encountered in Thailand, quality of life was zero, the heat was unbearable and the atrocious religious laws he witnessed on a daily basis made moving there the worst decision he'd ever made.

His wife joined him at first but returned, neither of them wanted her to live there and this was in Kuwait which isn't even as bad as Saudi Arabia! Fair enough recommend SA as a place to go to earn good money but to pretend it's a nice place to live with your wife and kids, I think the OP isn't being entirely honest!

[smccolley]

There is not enough disk space in this forum to contain all the attrocities and ignorance I experienced while I was there. Life is to short to put up with the kind of predjudice and criminal stupidity in the name of religion I experienced there.

Is there enough disk space for at least one example? Thanks.

According to them - the most important people in the world are Saudi males. Anyone else has little or no value.

Example 1: A Sri Lankan maid managed to escape her "employer" while I was living there. She made it to her embassy where she was immediately airlifted to a hospital in Colombo. They had to remove 18 nails ranging from 1 to 3 inches from her body, including her skull. When her "employer" got angry he had his wife hold the maid down while he used a hammer to pound in hot nails into her. The penalty imposed to the "employer" was a strict warning not to have any more maids (unless he really wanted to).

Example 2: When her family became trapped in a flood in Jeddah, a teenage Suadi girl saw then struggling and ran home. She drove the family Suburban to the flood area and threw them a rope, pulling them out of the flooded area. She then pulled out 8 other cars full of people. Her reward? The Department of Prevention of Vice and Promotion of Virtue (the Thought Police) attempted to arrest her for driving a car. Only the enormous puplic outcry prevented her from serious punishment.

Example 3: Reported in the Saudi Times newspaper, in an article about the Saudi's building a 2b USD clock in Meccah, they stated that the world should abandon GMT in favor of Meccah time because "Saudi scientists had proved scientifically that Meccah was the center of the earth".

If just keeps going and going. If you happen to be in the Pattaya area, feel free to come and buy me a beer - I will rant on all evening.

[Loaded]

I find that people moaning about living in Thailand rarely find that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. If going back to the UK for a couple of weeks depresses me, I can't imagine how I would respond to a year in Saudi. There would be money in my bank account but it would also be a year of my life I could never have back. When people become jaded with Thailand, I always suggest a few weeks back in their home country. That puts perspective on their complaints. Thailand has many faults and frustrations but for me, and many others, it's a place we call home.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Loaded

[aTomsLife]

Maybe I've just been unlucky in Thailand, but the students I've taught here are some of the laziest, most undisciplined people I've ever met in my life. I feel like just about anywhere else would be an improvement

I'm not a teacher, but, isn't it teacher's job to motivate the pupils? If they don't inspire, has teacher failed or the pupil?

Surely, it's my failure, good sir.

I failed miserably at transforming a culture that seems to pride itself on its xenophobia. I failed to reform an education system that passes its students, thus giving them a sense of accomplishment, regardless of whether they've achieved academic competence in their classes. I failed to contradict all the adults who've told my students they're Thai and don't need to speak English. Most of all, I failed to transmit the western value of learning from one's mistakes; instead, I can but watch each day as my students continue the farce that is "face", at the expense of acquiring and education, because after all that's their culture.

That you would even pose such a question demonstrates your complete and utter ignorance to the realities of the education system here, much less the challenges associated with teaching English to Thais.

[aTomsLife]

There is not enough disk space in this forum to contain all the attrocities and ignorance I experienced while I was there. Life is to short to put up with the kind of predjudice and criminal stupidity in the name of religion I experienced there.

Is there enough disk space for at least one example? Thanks.

According to them - the most important people in the world are Saudi males. Anyone else has little or no value.

Example 1: A Sri Lankan maid managed to escape her "employer" while I was living there. She made it to her embassy where she was immediately airlifted to a hospital in Colombo. They had to remove 18 nails ranging from 1 to 3 inches from her body, including her skull. When her "employer" got angry he had his wife hold the maid down while he used a hammer to pound in hot nails into her. The penalty imposed to the "employer" was a strict warning not to have any more maids (unless he really wanted to).

Example 2: When her family became trapped in a flood in Jeddah, a teenage Suadi girl saw then struggling and ran home. She drove the family Suburban to the flood area and threw them a rope, pulling them out of the flooded area. She then pulled out 8 other cars full of people. Her reward? The Department of Prevention of Vice and Promotion of Virtue (the Thought Police) attempted to arrest her for driving a car. Only the enormous puplic outcry prevented her from serious punishment.

Example 3: Reported in the Saudi Times newspaper, in an article about the Saudi's building a 2b USD clock in Meccah, they stated that the world should abandon GMT in favor of Meccah time because "Saudi scientists had proved scientifically that Meccah was the center of the earth".

If just keeps going and going. If you happen to be in the Pattaya area, feel free to come and buy me a beer - I will rant on all evening.

Ok, fair enough -- Saudi is off the list, for sure. I wouldn't last in a place like that either.

I'm in central Thailand, otherwise I would've taken you up on your offer for a beer.

[pastafarian]

There is not enough disk space in this forum to contain all the attrocities and ignorance I experienced while I was there. Life is to short to put up with the kind of predjudice and criminal stupidity in the name of religion I experienced there.

Is there enough disk space for at least one example? Thanks.

According to them - the most important people in the world are Saudi males. Anyone else has little or no value.

Example 1: A Sri Lankan maid managed to escape her "employer" while I was living there. She made it to her embassy where she was immediately airlifted to a hospital in Colombo. They had to remove 18 nails ranging from 1 to 3 inches from her body, including her skull. When her "employer" got angry he had his wife hold the maid down while he used a hammer to pound in hot nails into her. The penalty imposed to the "employer" was a strict warning not to have any more maids (unless he really wanted to).

Example 2: When her family became trapped in a flood in Jeddah, a teenage Suadi girl saw then struggling and ran home. She drove the family Suburban to the flood area and threw them a rope, pulling them out of the flooded area. She then pulled out 8 other cars full of people. Her reward? The Department of Prevention of Vice and Promotion of Virtue (the Thought Police) attempted to arrest her for driving a car. Only the enormous puplic outcry prevented her from serious punishment.

Example 3: Reported in the Saudi Times newspaper, in an article about the Saudi's building a 2b USD clock in Meccah, they stated that the world should abandon GMT in favor of Meccah time because "Saudi scientists had proved scientifically that Meccah was the center of the earth".

If just keeps going and going. If you happen to be in the Pattaya area, feel free to come and buy me a beer - I will rant on all evening.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg, sick crimes against females of any age go unpunished on a daily basis there, I wouldn't live/work there regardless of how much I could save and there is no way I'd take my wife or daughter there!

http://www.examiner.com/article/saudi-arabia-islamic-cleric-rapes-tortures-kills-daughter-pays-fine

[bermondburi]

Thanks for the detailed reply, Suradit69. I assume there isn't a no-fail policy in place in the UAE. I can't help but think that would motivate students to at least do the bare minimum.

Maybe I've just been unlucky here in Thailand, but the majority of the students I've taught are the laziest most undisciplined people I've ever met in my life. I can't help but feel that just about anywhere else would be an improvement. (I'm not talking about life in Thailand in general. Only about teaching here.)

Our intake at the first year level at the Higher Colleges of Technology supposedly filtered out the poorer students and set minimum expectations in English language ability, but we got a fair number of students who could speak no English and weren't that great shakes in any other subject either. They didn't survive the first year, but depending on who their fathers were they sometimes were allowed several attempts to complete the first year. Obviously the testing at secondary school was sometimes not the most meaningful with school teachers assisting students or students sitting exams in place of their friends or relatives.

Being lesser human beings, one was never permitted to record or report a failing mark for a royal personage, but that diplomatic two-step was left to others.

So failing did occur, but it didn't occur as soon as might have been wished. Thinking mainly of the male post secondary students, many of those who drifted away did so out of personal frustration rather than institutional policy.

The staff and student parking lots put things in perspective. Most of the staff drove Hondas and Toyotas, while the student parking lots were chock-a-block with Hummers, Lexuses, Benzes and a good deal more that I wouldn't be able to name. There's not much to motivate guys who have never had to lift a finger and who had everything handed to them and who were pretty much assured of a good paying job regardless.

As I say it can wear you down, but if you keep your sense of humor and get lucky with where you land, it can be a really nice life. And I really mean it when I say that the people there can be quite respectful, polite and generous. And oddly, most students were very keen to get good exam results and to be praised by the teacher for their performance ... but their ideas on how to achieve those happy outcomes rarely involved hard work or diligence.

And don't forget to apply for a government license that will permit you to buy booze from the few places allowed to sell it. You'll need it.

Booze is totally illegal in Saudi but most people make their own . I'm quite proud of my quality of wine . Not bad at all.

i remember the episode of Banged up abroad about the guy who got caught making his own wine in Saudi Arabia. Be careful.

Op, how does your wife and kids find life there?

I think that guy was selling it which is something completely different .

As far as my wife and kids go , for the kids it's fine . They are nearly 6 and 7 and for them it's just another place . So long as they have mum and dad and food and a bed and toys they're happy . Funnily enough they complained about the cold in the winter as it did get a bit nippy . They saw their own breath for the first time too which amazed them .

My wife found it more difficult . It took here a few months to get used to it , wearing the abaya out still annoys her and a lot of the Arabs tend to look down on her if she's not with me because they think she is the Filipino servant or something like that . I wouldn't say she's a great fan of the place but she's adapted . Thais can find it hard to travel and for a woman it's not an easy place to come to . It's probably reaffirmed in her mind how great a country Thailand is !!

[bermondburi]

I spent 18 months on and off in Riyadh and Jeddah, and I can't think of a salary that would make me want to spend any time there again. There is not enough disk space in this forum to contain all the attrocities and ignorance I experienced while I was there. Life is to short to put up with the kind of predjudice and criminal stupidity in the name of religion I experienced there. Even Kuwait was better!

I took a huge pay cut to move to thailand and I have never regretted it. I probably can never retire, but the work is not bad and the life in thailand blows away north america.

What do others think?

That concurs with what my friend that taught in Kuwait said, he wanted to leave after just a few months but completed the full year contract for the money. He said the students were much worse than any he'd encountered in Thailand, quality of life was zero, the heat was unbearable and the atrocious religious laws he witnessed on a daily basis made moving there the worst decision he'd ever made.

His wife joined him at first but returned, neither of them wanted her to live there and this was in Kuwait which isn't even as bad as Saudi Arabia! Fair enough recommend SA as a place to go to earn good money but to pretend it's a nice place to live with your wife and kids, I think the OP isn't being entirely honest!

Personally I find the students better than in Thailand , a lot of that could have to do with where you work , have worked ect .

I think I have a better quality of life here in many ways . I have a lot more freetime . I'm home earlier every day and travelling to work takes less time. Most importantly for me ,I get to spend more time with my family . If you like parties and nightclubs and bars then Saudi isn't the place for you . But if you're a stay at home kind of person who doesn't mind a quiet drink at home then it's fine. I don't really do much different on an everyday basis to how we used to live in Bangkok really .

As far as the heat goes , where I am in Riyadh it is only really hotter than Thailand from June to September , 2 months of that is holiday so I'm not there . It is also a dry heat so in many ways a lot more bearable than the humidity of Thailand . Winter gets quite cool here . It went down to 7-10 degrees for a while and a lot of the winter was very nice . It was good to go out for a walk in jeans , jumper , jacket ect .

As far as religious stuff goes , I'm sure that some crazy thing happen here but it doesn't really have anything to do with me . Crazy things happen in Thailand too . We have had no problems with the religious police at all . Hardly ever see them where we live.

As for as the last point ,different folks different strokes . Depends how you live and what you enjoy doing . We do have a better standard of living here than in Thailand though.

[bermondburi]

There is not enough disk space in this forum to contain all the attrocities and ignorance I experienced while I was there. Life is to short to put up with the kind of predjudice and criminal stupidity in the name of religion I experienced there.

Is there enough disk space for at least one example? Thanks.

According to them - the most important people in the world are Saudi males. Anyone else has little or no value.

Example 1: A Sri Lankan maid managed to escape her "employer" while I was living there. She made it to her embassy where she was immediately airlifted to a hospital in Colombo. They had to remove 18 nails ranging from 1 to 3 inches from her body, including her skull. When her "employer" got angry he had his wife hold the maid down while he used a hammer to pound in hot nails into her. The penalty imposed to the "employer" was a strict warning not to have any more maids (unless he really wanted to).

Example 2: When her family became trapped in a flood in Jeddah, a teenage Suadi girl saw then struggling and ran home. She drove the family Suburban to the flood area and threw them a rope, pulling them out of the flooded area. She then pulled out 8 other cars full of people. Her reward? The Department of Prevention of Vice and Promotion of Virtue (the Thought Police) attempted to arrest her for driving a car. Only the enormous puplic outcry prevented her from serious punishment.

Example 3: Reported in the Saudi Times newspaper, in an article about the Saudi's building a 2b USD clock in Meccah, they stated that the world should abandon GMT in favor of Meccah time because "Saudi scientists had proved scientifically that Meccah was the center of the earth".

If just keeps going and going. If you happen to be in the Pattaya area, feel free to come and buy me a beer - I will rant on all evening.

but how did any of these things affect you ?

bad things happen everywhere.