Thailand education: Low ranking for quality despite high spending

[Noistar]

Instead of giving the kids tablet computers, which was just a vote catcher, they should have given them a board game called "Monopoly" so they could think about how things work.

Ok you can put Bangkok Street names on it, would Mayfair become Walking Street?

Actually, they should have spent a few million baht to run an electric wire to the 2000+ primary and high schools that remain without electricity. It is reported that a number of those schools actually received tablets which were good for about 6 hours--until they ran out of battery. No means to recharge. Now they sit in cabinets awaiting the day that their school will be brought into the TWENTIETH century.

But isn't it the case that teachers are struggling to integrate them into lessons?

A sort of "here it is, now work out what to do with them". Are these schools with tablets in the cupboard, perhaps in a better position than schools who have them on the desk?

Mind you, if they are used in lessons, perhaps now is the time to stop students wandering in and out of the classroom all lesson. If they were following a lesson on the tablet, they'd need to be at their desk rather than taking their phone to the loo and phoning their friends. Can't understand why teachers don't say "the lesson is only 1 hour, so wait til the end of class or cross your legs". Teachers can't teach students they allow to wander off.

[harryfrompattaya]

All School systems like to brag how bad students do they get money In our home country teachers do the same Name a country you live in where the Teachers do not brag their students are the worst and they need more money

Edited September 8, 2013 by harryfrompattaya

[mok199]

i know for a fact that corruption exists in even in the education system..my gal is a teacher in a private school in saigon,and she has told me that teachers intentionally hold back lessons,or give poor grades ,and offer the student ( usally a well off student) tutoring classes after hours...but again this comes down to poor wages for teachers....i was happy to see that the thai govt has spend millions on i pads for students....i hope they use them wisley..

[Noistar]

All School systems like to brag how bad students do they get money In our home country teachers do the same Name a country you live in where the Teachers do not brag their students are the worst and they need more money

It's not a label I immediately associate with Britain. Pride in success seems to come first. Salaries don't seem to be a benchmark for success. But this is an opinion based on my education, my sibling's education, my children's education and my grand-children's current education.

When I was a governor at my daughters' school, there was never a hint of teachers attempting to link student performance with their salary. Parents' evenings always concentrated on the student and positive elements to improve their success. I don't ever recall seeing a begging bowl. But this is only my humble contribution based on a minute proportion of British schools/teachers/students.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Scott

[johnnie20110]

i was happy to see that the thai govt has spend millions on i pads for students....i hope they use them wisley..

Actually they spent billions...but they got cheaply made chinese knock-off tablets instead of iPads...and they are not being used wisely.

[historyprof]

Nothing will change until they remove the old Thai teachers who still live in a communist error mentality. With their regimental military

behavior. They spend hours on the boy scout drills which I know and remember America speaking out against it because it is not voluntary it's just a cover for military training.

Teachers will come in the classrooms and interrupt the foreign teachers and if the foreign teachers are making any progress with the students, the Thai teachers will tell them they can't do it.

1.If the school does provide internet they break all the computers and pile them up at the back of the class.

2.If the school has internet they turn it on for an hour in the morning at the same time when your supposed to go out to the morning assembly. When you come back, the internet is either two slow or you just can't log on.

3.They don't offer teachers a computer. They may put 15 teachers in one office and give them two computers and printers that most often don't work correctly or the push the computers into an area that makes it impossible to use.

4. I realize this is not about foreign teachers, but some foreign teachers are teaching more than just English. For instance, the Science teacher; who they never really give a budget for equipment and supplies to work from, only a few small things then ask the teacher to buy the rest with their low salary, " don't half too tell what happens there".

.5. Most of that money that the schools are getting most likely are for ceremonies, " you know the ones" every week or so they bring out fancy couches so the detector can sit in front of everyone looking like royalty. A director is supposed to be working no putting himself and a few selected staff members up on display.

6. High ranking Thai teachers will bust into classes and disrupt them intentionally. They will play loud VERY LOUD MUSIC during class ours so that the teachers can't be heard " and I do mean Loud"

7. They will have sports in the middle of the day so all the students disappear from class, instead of having on a Friday afternoon so they only miss one or two classes which isn't a problem because by friday afternoon the students aren't really with you.

8. It seems as if they are always being tested but not until after they have been out of class for several weeks, then they are tested on stuff the hadn't learned..( This varies in some schools )

9. Some schools even allow the drivers to use the kids as target practice. Yeah ! this is true, at one school I watched in horror as a small single cab truck sitting low tot he ground try to run over two little Thai girls, it was the worst thing I had ever watched as this truck plowed through the parking are " soccer Field " where these two girls were walking, the truck came up from behind them, didn't slow down. The two girls literally had to run and jump out of the way. But I see this at many schools that I have to go to for our charity group. It just shows that even the parents don't care.

10. They beat the ADHD children hoping they will learn. While at the same time in Sattahip they dress them up as ladyboys with coconut shell bra's and grass dresses so the can walk around the school all day and beat pans. Still to the day I have not been able to figure that one out. Even worse the teacher posted pictures of these young boys online. Later only to remover because they were terrible pictures. They should be playing soccer but they are teaching them to be entertainers for the wealthy.

11. Sattahip the language director out there wanted the M -6 children to just learn nursery rhymes all day long, not for their English classes, but for their Thai classes as well. These students were getting ready for a university.

12. Taking test if they fail give them the answers. But first, give them the answers so their is no reason for them to fail?

13. At a high school instead of treating them as young adults they are walking around hitting students with a stick. Then walking around with blow horns, screaming at the kids everyday. The children will listen to an hour speech every morning about nothing, it's crazy. This type of mentality only exacerbates the extremely high deaf syndrome issue. They come to classes and they are tone deaf to anyone speaking with.

Bottom line they don't teach they heard them like we do with cows.

Only a teacher would be able to report what you have reported. You are not a teacher. I know the mayor of Sattahip and the education administration and have known them for a long time. You are not telling the truth. Sorry to put it so bluntly.

[historyprof]

A "teacher" married to a "policeman" lives across the street from us. She "teaches" pre-schoolers." She proudly wears her govt. uniform and makes sure her new car is always clean. The govt. made the loan for the car and requires minimal payback. But the LOOK she and other car driving teachers present is remarkable. Unfortunately they do not TEACH adequately. SHAME for their impact on the youth of Thailand and the country's forward movement into a fully modern democratic society. I'm glad I am NOT a teacher in LOS.

Yes, you are so right. I'm in my 9th year here as a teacher. This week i asked a class of 48 students aged 16/17 who the Prime Minister is. Not 1 of them could answer. The whole thing is based on a no discipline culture. The young kids being left with grandparents who themselves had no education. The 'money talks' syndrome when only rich kids get to good schools even though they are inferior to kids from less wealthy or poorer families. No punishment for absenteeism. An 'everyone passes' mandate, even if they can't tell you their name. Money allocated for teachers syphoned off by directors. The list is endless. And to cap it all ........................if you have 100 Thai teachers in a school and 1 Farang........if the kids fail, who goes? The Farang of course............it's always our fault! lol Farang no good! Thai perfect! Crazy eh?

The word for Prime Minister in Thai is "Ni Yoke" Name is "Chew Ali". Today I asked 100 students from the ages of 12 to 19 that I tutor. 100% knew it was Yingluck. You sir are not telling the truth. Sorry to be so blunt.

[historyprof]

I am still waiting for a patronizing graduate to actually explain to me how they are better than me.

Sure no problem. What do you mean by better? Give me some examples and I will be more than happy to respond.

[Scott]

Bickering and sniping at one another will get your post deleted and result in warnings and suspensions.

Please stay on-topic.

[Noistar]

A "teacher" married to a "policeman" lives across the street from us. She "teaches" pre-schoolers." She proudly wears her govt. uniform and makes sure her new car is always clean. The govt. made the loan for the car and requires minimal payback. But the LOOK she and other car driving teachers present is remarkable. Unfortunately they do not TEACH adequately. SHAME for their impact on the youth of Thailand and the country's forward movement into a fully modern democratic society. I'm glad I am NOT a teacher in LOS.

Yes, you are so right. I'm in my 9th year here as a teacher. This week i asked a class of 48 students aged 16/17 who the Prime Minister is. Not 1 of them could answer. The whole thing is based on a no discipline culture. The young kids being left with grandparents who themselves had no education. The 'money talks' syndrome when only rich kids get to good schools even though they are inferior to kids from less wealthy or poorer families. No punishment for absenteeism. An 'everyone passes' mandate, even if they can't tell you their name. Money allocated for teachers syphoned off by directors. The list is endless. And to cap it all ........................if you have 100 Thai teachers in a school and 1 Farang........if the kids fail, who goes? The Farang of course............it's always our fault! lol Farang no good! Thai perfect! Crazy eh?

The word for Prime Minister in Thai is "Ni Yoke" Name is "Chew Ali". Today I asked 100 students from the ages of 12 to 19 that I tutor. 100% knew it was Yingluck. You sir are not telling the truth. Sorry to be so blunt.

Co-incidentally I asked my step-daughter (17) the same question today. Once she understood the question she surprised me by saying 'Yingluck'.

Going back to my original question, I was merely quoting the assertion that everybody being a graduate would be beneficial. Why would this be the case?

I was also trying to get somebody to explain to me how Thai students graduate with BA and MA qualifications (although there seems to be some confusion on my part when I mention graduates, degrees and qualifications interchangeably). I think the apparent proliferation of graduates and the apparent lack of competence is on topic.

I can assure the mods and yourself that I am not 'picking a fight', I merely want to understand why my definition of qualifications seems to raise the temperature of posts

[historyprof]

Co-incidentally I asked my step-daughter (17) the same question today. Once she understood the question she surprised me by saying 'Yingluck'.

Going back to my original question, I was merely quoting the assertion that everybody being a graduate would be beneficial. Why would this be the case?

I was also trying to get somebody to explain to me how Thai students graduate with BA and MA qualifications (although there seems to be some confusion on my part when I mention graduates, degrees and qualifications interchangeably). I think the apparent proliferation of graduates and the apparent lack of competence is on topic.

I can assure the mods and yourself that I am not 'picking a fight', I merely want to understand why my definition of qualifications seems to raise the temperature of posts

I never wrote everybody being a graduate would be beneficial. Nor do I think so. It would be nice if engineers could have a conversation about the arts or literature and history. But one gets over trying to talk to them about anything except oil or gas or whatever it is they do as they are functionally illiterate in anything except engineering.

However I don't really mean Thailand. They have a problem with history because of censorship as does Japan and China. It's difficult here.

I do like the Thai method of starting doctors earlier in college in medicine and think for producing a large number of doctors it makes sense. I've also stopped trying to have an intelligent conversation with most doctors about anything except medicine.

[MrJohnson]

Response to Katanga. Schools change over time what was right 20 years ago may not be right now and of course it depends on the children. What is right for one child may not be right for all children.

I favor schools that have an admissions test to include psychological as well as academic tests and a school which prepares children for college.

I think every child should have a BA degree so they can function as a human being. After that up to them.

If I had a child who wanted to be a doctor I might suggest they stay in Thailand to study. I think Thai doctors are better than doctors in the West. They seem better adjusted.

Most Thai doctors who study in the West come back to Thailand to practice or teach; that has to tell you something because they don't make near as much money.

I assume you're joking - have Thai schools/the education system changed? The requirements remain the same, keep the population ignorant and under-the-thumb and let Thai culture and apathy prevail.

From what I have seen, there seems to be a general lack of enthusiasm in schools. Students are free to wander in and out of the class during lessons, teachers need to drag lesson participation out of students. As long as students cow-tow to the teachers, they can do anything they want it seems.

I don't know if this casual attitude to lessons is prevalent in first-world schools. Certainly not in those schools which my family and friends children attend.

Now, everybody seems to get a qualification in Thailand. What are these 'BA's you talk about?

As (almost) everybody in Thailand graduates from university, why aren't they functioning as human beings? I think you're being patronizing to non-graduates. In the same way as pee are not necessarily best, graduates also are not necessarily the best.

Btw, want the name of a non-English speaking Thai doctor? Not sure how he keeps pace with developments in medical science.

All of the Thai doctors I have met all spoke a bit of English. I don't think they could go through medical school in Thailand and not speak English. BA is a Bachelor of Arts degree. I assume liberal arts degree. I take it you have never taught in a Thai school, pity. You should try it before you become an expert on Thai education.

Prof, you are really starting to sound quite belligerent and intolerant of other people's opinions on this topic. You do not have a monopoly on knowledge of this topic. That is very clear. Accusing other posters of not being qualified to comment is stooping rather low, don't you think?

[historyprof]

I assume you're joking - have Thai schools/the education system changed? The requirements remain the same, keep the population ignorant and under-the-thumb and let Thai culture and apathy prevail.

From what I have seen, there seems to be a general lack of enthusiasm in schools. Students are free to wander in and out of the class during lessons, teachers need to drag lesson participation out of students. As long as students cow-tow to the teachers, they can do anything they want it seems.

I don't know if this casual attitude to lessons is prevalent in first-world schools. Certainly not in those schools which my family and friends children attend.

Now, everybody seems to get a qualification in Thailand. What are these 'BA's you talk about?

As (almost) everybody in Thailand graduates from university, why aren't they functioning as human beings? I think you're being patronizing to non-graduates. In the same way as pee are not necessarily best, graduates also are not necessarily the best.

Btw, want the name of a non-English speaking Thai doctor? Not sure how he keeps pace with developments in medical science.

All of the Thai doctors I have met all spoke a bit of English. I don't think they could go through medical school in Thailand and not speak English. BA is a Bachelor of Arts degree. I assume liberal arts degree. I take it you have never taught in a Thai school, pity. You should try it before you become an expert on Thai education.

Prof, you are really starting to sound quite belligerent and intolerant of other people's opinions on this topic. You do not have a monopoly on knowledge of this topic. That is very clear. Accusing other posters of not being qualified to comment is stooping rather low, don't you think?

The poster Noister wrote, " 1. there seems to be a general lack of enthusiasm in schools. 2. Students are free to wander in and out of the class. 3. As long as students cow-tow to the teachers, they can do anything they want it. 4. What are these 'BA's you talk about?"

I've taught in Thai schools for 10 years and that is utter nonsense. A week as a teacher would completely change the opinion of the poster. Don't tell me you have never taught in Thai schools too?

[The Usual Suspect]

I don't know about anyone else, but I think this topic has been run into the ground.

[MrJohnson]

I don't know about anyone else, but I think this topic has been run into the ground.

Agreed

[weecree]

"From my perspective, one of the reasons Thailand is unable to solve it's educational problems because there are no "problems", at least as far as reporting goes. The school where my wife teaches, (which is fairly average for a Thai school) makes sure that all reports to the district director are top heavy with high test scores (which are often thoroughly coached or outright fabricated) and a litany of program success stories and statistics. Always a big fat happy face on everything."

One of the foreign professors at my university did a funded research project on the problems of students' inability to speak English (in the English major). Much of the hard data pointed to problems with ineffective pedagogy and lack of decent class materials. Before the report was published, the Thai department head got wind of the research results. The professor's funds were frozen, he was instructed to cease his research activity, and the report never saw the light of day. Since then, all his requests for funding of subsequent research projects have been denied.

The report was just too much loss of face to bear; and that, in Thai education, is the most important thing.

I recently did a test of all grades i taught (p4-m3), because i was relatively new, i based the test around what a Japanese student shoudl know at that grade (bearing in mind that japanese english education doesnt even begin until P5 and that M1 is in effect a repetition of everything they learned in p5 and p6 only with writing" - they go all the way back to my name is... i am... i like...).

So M1 was going to be tested on some basic structures from P6 style questions, like name, age, birthday, months, days, weather, like etc. M2 was going to add in some pronouns (he likes), and a couple of new tenses (pres cont/past simple), whilst M3 was going to deal with some of the more complex tenses, passive voice, directions on top of all the other stuff. The reading passage was page 27 of the P4 smile textbook. "This is my sister, her name is... she is... she has... etc).

All incredibly simple.

It wasnt long before I had to get the best (and very good) English teacher to sit in on a few of the tests... Maybe they werent following my speech? Maybe it was too advanced? Maybe i was asking them sentence patterns they werent used to (where do you live versus where are you from? for example).

Nope, green lit. I asked her to carry out some of the tests just to check it wasnt my speaking itself that was at issue, or worse, they were just shy speaking to a foreigner in a test situation), nope. Same issues. I was shocked. She was shocked. What made her more shocked of course was that no one seemed to notice that they couldnt respond to basic questions. "but they know all this? how are they struggling with such basic questions?".

It seemed to be quite clear what was going on. Its classic "does everyone understand?" "yes teacher!" "right! next page!"

And in a way, they do. And in a way, the reading component made it blindingly clear.

Almost all the students struggled with the reading text. A p4 text just so you remember.

Of course they might. Theyre not fluent. Its a blind text. But I dont just mean they were unfamiliar with the rhythms or intonation. I mean they really couldnt recognise the words or how to make out the sounds so they could connect it to a concept. They couldnt read basic everyday words that should have been second nature to them as Middle school students.

I had a hunch and gave some of them their text book and asked them what theyd recently learned. This textbook is DENSE. Its wall to wall english and even the grammar explanations are in L2. This is not made with low level students in mind. Yet with absolute ease, almost to a man, they breezed through it only tripping up here and there.

Well this is odd... they cant read a very easy passage, but they can read a very convoluted one! Clearly this doesnt make sense. I mean i can read very simple hangul and very simple kanji. If you repeat yama enough, youre going to recognise it without thinking, so why are my students struggling over common words like study/studies or "years old" but they can bash through a piece on whatever the heck it was full of throwaway language theyll never see again?

Tangent!

Theres the case of the 9 year old kid doing her speech contest on the important benefits to the economic future of Thailand and why they should all embrace it. This girl memorised a speech that almost everyone i know would struggle to remember. Shes 9. Shes talking about concepts WAY beyond her comprehension. Clearly she doesnt understand a word shes saying. And yet, there she was knocking it out the park with perfect intonation and fluency. She must be gifted i thought! Shes maybe fluent!

But nope, when it came time for her reading test (p4 test is literally alphabet and a listof subject words (english, math, science, pe, art, music), she couldnt read the words science or maths. I tried to see if she could read the passage on the next page because science is a bit tricky ill grant you! (my name is, i am... ) and though she could do it, and she should have been practicing it in her English class, she still nevertheless struggled. Great kid, definitely strong at English, but far from fluent. So the pieces were all dropping into place im afraid.

You see, these children cannot read. They can repeat. But they cannot read. Now you might think "why is this important? theres more to fluency than just reading?"

Youre right, but go and have a look at their middle school textbooks again and ask yourself what this will do to the motivation, desire, and interest of any student trying to progress in English? The most serious issue of course is that this comes as a surprise to their Thai English teachers. It took me to sit them in my test and watch their faces drop in absolute horror when students couldnt respond to even the most basic formulations of structures theyd assumed the students understood intuitively.

Once they hit Middle school the level (and interest levels of the students - at least in my school), drops sharply. it picks back up slightly by M3, but youre still dealing with questions that a first grade middle schooler in Japan can respond to as the EASY part of a speaking test. And theyre still kinda struggling with it. Its pure golf clap stuff. So the question really is, how on earth has that come about? I know the teachers are busting their ass. The students are also trying hard, and honestly, theyre the nicest students ive taught and theres nothing at all that would suggest that these kids COULDNT achieve the same results of students in Korea and Japan. Theres no difference in intelligence or aptitude. But something is broken somewhere, and my honest opinion is that the people who designed this curriculum are out of their dam_n minds. Whether through political posturing or naive optimism, they seem to place far too steep a learning curve on the syllabus. Bear in mind that at grade 4 my students were still wrapping their heads around question forms (ive also had the pleasure of teaching in other schools as part of my tefl course here on KS, and grade 4 here seem to kinda get it, but grade 3 and below definitely dont - the best way to explicate this for them that dont teach is that its like the dog looking at your finger instead of what its pointing to - ask them a question and they think youre just naming another object).

Yet at grade 4 they should be *reading* pres cont/simple tense and dealing with pronouns and conjugating the be verb, "He is, you are, i am". By M3, they still dont seem to grasp it. Its just thrown at them with no time to digest it because by M3 they need to be at a point where they can read very extensive and elaborate text on 'issues' with reams of throwaway language theyll never use again outside of that page but are crucial to comprehending the passage... eugh!

Honestly, it makes me incredibly sad. It seems everyone is trapped in a system they all know to be broken, but have to keep their heads above the water for the sake of their kids.

ETA: sorry for all the absolutes. Obviously its all circumstantial evidence based on one main school and a few little one shots in other schools.

Edited September 9, 2013 by weecree

[Lucie]

"I think every child should have a BA degree so they can function as a human being. After that up to them."

I am one of many people I know who function very well as human beings without a degree. I am a (good) teacher, a wife, a mother, an avid reader, an environmentalist, a homeowner... I could go on.

"This week i asked a class of 48 students aged 16/17 who the Prime Minister is. Not 1 of them could answer."

Would you be able to understand a similar question if you were asked in Thai? Japanese? Turkish? Pretty much all Thai people know who the Prime Minister is - they just perhaps don't know the English word for it. The PROBLEM is that a lot of Thai people don't know HOW BAD the prime minister is!

[Thai at Heart]

"From my perspective, one of the reasons Thailand is unable to solve it's educational problems because there are no "problems", at least as far as reporting goes. The school where my wife teaches, (which is fairly average for a Thai school) makes sure that all reports to the district director are top heavy with high test scores (which are often thoroughly coached or outright fabricated) and a litany of program success stories and statistics. Always a big fat happy face on everything."

One of the foreign professors at my university did a funded research project on the problems of students' inability to speak English (in the English major). Much of the hard data pointed to problems with ineffective pedagogy and lack of decent class materials. Before the report was published, the Thai department head got wind of the research results. The professor's funds were frozen, he was instructed to cease his research activity, and the report never saw the light of day. Since then, all his requests for funding of subsequent research projects have been denied.

The report was just too much loss of face to bear; and that, in Thai education, is the most important thing.

I recently did a test of all grades i taught (p4-m3), because i was relatively new, i based the test around what a Japanese student shoudl know at that grade (bearing in mind that japanese english education doesnt even begin until P5 and that M1 is in effect a repetition of everything they learned in p5 and p6 only with writing" - they go all the way back to my name is... i am... i like...).

So M1 was going to be tested on some basic structures from P6 style questions, like name, age, birthday, months, days, weather, like etc. M2 was going to add in some pronouns (he likes), and a couple of new tenses (pres cont/past simple), whilst M3 was going to deal with some of the more complex tenses, passive voice, directions on top of all the other stuff. The reading passage was page 27 of the P4 smile textbook. "This is my sister, her name is... she is... she has... etc).

All incredibly simple.

It wasnt long before I had to get the best (and very good) English teacher to sit in on a few of the tests... Maybe they werent following my speech? Maybe it was too advanced? Maybe i was asking them sentence patterns they werent used to (where do you live versus where are you from? for example).

Nope, green lit. I asked her to carry out some of the tests just to check it wasnt my speaking itself that was at issue, or worse, they were just shy speaking to a foreigner in a test situation), nope. Same issues. I was shocked. She was shocked. What made her more shocked of course was that no one seemed to notice that they couldnt respond to basic questions. "but they know all this? how are they struggling with such basic questions?".

It seemed to be quite clear what was going on. Its classic "does everyone understand?" "yes teacher!" "right! next page!"

And in a way, they do. And in a way, the reading component made it blindingly clear.

Almost all the students struggled with the reading text. A p4 text just so you remember.

Of course they might. Theyre not fluent. Its a blind text. But I dont just mean they were unfamiliar with the rhythms or intonation. I mean they really couldnt recognise the words or how to make out the sounds so they could connect it to a concept. They couldnt read basic everyday words that should have been second nature to them as Middle school students.

I had a hunch and gave some of them their text book and asked them what theyd recently learned. This textbook is DENSE. Its wall to wall english and even the grammar explanations are in L2. This is not made with low level students in mind. Yet with absolute ease, almost to a man, they breezed through it only tripping up here and there.

Well this is odd... they cant read a very easy passage, but they can read a very convoluted one! Clearly this doesnt make sense. I mean i can read very simple hangul and very simple kanji. If you repeat yama enough, youre going to recognise it without thinking, so why are my students struggling over common words like study/studies or "years old" but they can bash through a piece on whatever the heck it was full of throwaway language theyll never see again?

Tangent!

Theres the case of the 9 year old kid doing her speech contest on the important benefits to the economic future of Thailand and why they should all embrace it. This girl memorised a speech that almost everyone i know would struggle to remember. Shes 9. Shes talking about concepts WAY beyond her comprehension. Clearly she doesnt understand a word shes saying. And yet, there she was knocking it out the park with perfect intonation and fluency. She must be gifted i thought! Shes maybe fluent!

But nope, when it came time for her reading test (p4 test is literally alphabet and a listof subject words (english, math, science, pe, art, music), she couldnt read the words science or maths. I tried to see if she could read the passage on the next page because science is a bit tricky ill grant you! (my name is, i am... ) and though she could do it, and she should have been practicing it in her English class, she still nevertheless struggled. Great kid, definitely strong at English, but far from fluent. So the pieces were all dropping into place im afraid.

You see, these children cannot read. They can repeat. But they cannot read. Now you might think "why is this important? theres more to fluency than just reading?"

Youre right, but go and have a look at their middle school textbooks again and ask yourself what this will do to the motivation, desire, and interest of any student trying to progress in English? The most serious issue of course is that this comes as a surprise to their Thai English teachers. It took me to sit them in my test and watch their faces drop in absolute horror when students couldnt respond to even the most basic formulations of structures theyd assumed the students understood intuitively.

Once they hit Middle school the level (and interest levels of the students - at least in my school), drops sharply. it picks back up slightly by M3, but youre still dealing with questions that a first grade middle schooler in Japan can respond to as the EASY part of a speaking test. And theyre still kinda struggling with it. Its pure golf clap stuff. So the question really is, how on earth has that come about? I know the teachers are busting their ass. The students are also trying hard, and honestly, theyre the nicest students ive taught and theres nothing at all that would suggest that these kids COULDNT achieve the same results of students in Korea and Japan. Theres no difference in intelligence or aptitude. But something is broken somewhere, and my honest opinion is that the people who designed this curriculum are out of their dam_n minds. Whether through political posturing or naive optimism, they seem to place far too steep a learning curve on the syllabus. Bear in mind that at grade 4 my students were still wrapping their heads around question forms (ive also had the pleasure of teaching in other schools as part of my tefl course here on KS, and grade 4 here seem to kinda get it, but grade 3 and below definitely dont - the best way to explicate this for them that dont teach is that its like the dog looking at your finger instead of what its pointing to - ask them a question and they think youre just naming another object).

Yet at grade 4 they should be *reading* pres cont/simple tense and dealing with pronouns and conjugating the be verb, "He is, you are, i am". By M3, they still dont seem to grasp it. Its just thrown at them with no time to digest it because by M3 they need to be at a point where they can read very extensive and elaborate text on 'issues' with reams of throwaway language theyll never use again outside of that page but are crucial to comprehending the passage... eugh!

Honestly, it makes me incredibly sad. It seems everyone is trapped in a system they all know to be broken, but have to keep their heads above the water for the sake of their kids.

ETA: sorry for all the absolutes. Obviously its all circumstantial evidence based on one main school and a few little one shots in other schools.

Brilliant insight. Thanks. Explains everything

[Noistar]

"From my perspective, one of the reasons Thailand is unable to solve it's educational problems because there are no "problems", at least as far as reporting goes. The school where my wife teaches, (which is fairly average for a Thai school) makes sure that all reports to the district director are top heavy with high test scores (which are often thoroughly coached or outright fabricated) and a litany of program success stories and statistics. Always a big fat happy face on everything."

One of the foreign professors at my university did a funded research project on the problems of students' inability to speak English (in the English major). Much of the hard data pointed to problems with ineffective pedagogy and lack of decent class materials. Before the report was published, the Thai department head got wind of the research results. The professor's funds were frozen, he was instructed to cease his research activity, and the report never saw the light of day. Since then, all his requests for funding of subsequent research projects have been denied.

The report was just too much loss of face to bear; and that, in Thai education, is the most important thing.

I recently did a test of all grades i taught (p4-m3), because i was relatively new, i based the test around what a Japanese student shoudl know at that grade (bearing in mind that japanese english education doesnt even begin until P5 and that M1 is in effect a repetition of everything they learned in p5 and p6 only with writing" - they go all the way back to my name is... i am... i like...).

So M1 was going to be tested on some basic structures from P6 style questions, like name, age, birthday, months, days, weather, like etc. M2 was going to add in some pronouns (he likes), and a couple of new tenses (pres cont/past simple), whilst M3 was going to deal with some of the more complex tenses, passive voice, directions on top of all the other stuff. The reading passage was page 27 of the P4 smile textbook. "This is my sister, her name is... she is... she has... etc).

All incredibly simple.

It wasnt long before I had to get the best (and very good) English teacher to sit in on a few of the tests... Maybe they werent following my speech? Maybe it was too advanced? Maybe i was asking them sentence patterns they werent used to (where do you live versus where are you from? for example).

Nope, green lit. I asked her to carry out some of the tests just to check it wasnt my speaking itself that was at issue, or worse, they were just shy speaking to a foreigner in a test situation), nope. Same issues. I was shocked. She was shocked. What made her more shocked of course was that no one seemed to notice that they couldnt respond to basic questions. "but they know all this? how are they struggling with such basic questions?".

It seemed to be quite clear what was going on. Its classic "does everyone understand?" "yes teacher!" "right! next page!"

And in a way, they do. And in a way, the reading component made it blindingly clear.

Almost all the students struggled with the reading text. A p4 text just so you remember.

Of course they might. Theyre not fluent. Its a blind text. But I dont just mean they were unfamiliar with the rhythms or intonation. I mean they really couldnt recognise the words or how to make out the sounds so they could connect it to a concept. They couldnt read basic everyday words that should have been second nature to them as Middle school students.

I had a hunch and gave some of them their text book and asked them what theyd recently learned. This textbook is DENSE. Its wall to wall english and even the grammar explanations are in L2. This is not made with low level students in mind. Yet with absolute ease, almost to a man, they breezed through it only tripping up here and there.

Well this is odd... they cant read a very easy passage, but they can read a very convoluted one! Clearly this doesnt make sense. I mean i can read very simple hangul and very simple kanji. If you repeat yama enough, youre going to recognise it without thinking, so why are my students struggling over common words like study/studies or "years old" but they can bash through a piece on whatever the heck it was full of throwaway language theyll never see again?

Tangent!

Theres the case of the 9 year old kid doing her speech contest on the important benefits to the economic future of Thailand and why they should all embrace it. This girl memorised a speech that almost everyone i know would struggle to remember. Shes 9. Shes talking about concepts WAY beyond her comprehension. Clearly she doesnt understand a word shes saying. And yet, there she was knocking it out the park with perfect intonation and fluency. She must be gifted i thought! Shes maybe fluent!

But nope, when it came time for her reading test (p4 test is literally alphabet and a listof subject words (english, math, science, pe, art, music), she couldnt read the words science or maths. I tried to see if she could read the passage on the next page because science is a bit tricky ill grant you! (my name is, i am... ) and though she could do it, and she should have been practicing it in her English class, she still nevertheless struggled. Great kid, definitely strong at English, but far from fluent. So the pieces were all dropping into place im afraid.

You see, these children cannot read. They can repeat. But they cannot read. Now you might think "why is this important? theres more to fluency than just reading?"

Youre right, but go and have a look at their middle school textbooks again and ask yourself what this will do to the motivation, desire, and interest of any student trying to progress in English? The most serious issue of course is that this comes as a surprise to their Thai English teachers. It took me to sit them in my test and watch their faces drop in absolute horror when students couldnt respond to even the most basic formulations of structures theyd assumed the students understood intuitively.

Once they hit Middle school the level (and interest levels of the students - at least in my school), drops sharply. it picks back up slightly by M3, but youre still dealing with questions that a first grade middle schooler in Japan can respond to as the EASY part of a speaking test. And theyre still kinda struggling with it. Its pure golf clap stuff. So the question really is, how on earth has that come about? I know the teachers are busting their ass. The students are also trying hard, and honestly, theyre the nicest students ive taught and theres nothing at all that would suggest that these kids COULDNT achieve the same results of students in Korea and Japan. Theres no difference in intelligence or aptitude. But something is broken somewhere, and my honest opinion is that the people who designed this curriculum are out of their dam_n minds. Whether through political posturing or naive optimism, they seem to place far too steep a learning curve on the syllabus. Bear in mind that at grade 4 my students were still wrapping their heads around question forms (ive also had the pleasure of teaching in other schools as part of my tefl course here on KS, and grade 4 here seem to kinda get it, but grade 3 and below definitely dont - the best way to explicate this for them that dont teach is that its like the dog looking at your finger instead of what its pointing to - ask them a question and they think youre just naming another object).

Yet at grade 4 they should be *reading* pres cont/simple tense and dealing with pronouns and conjugating the be verb, "He is, you are, i am". By M3, they still dont seem to grasp it. Its just thrown at them with no time to digest it because by M3 they need to be at a point where they can read very extensive and elaborate text on 'issues' with reams of throwaway language theyll never use again outside of that page but are crucial to comprehending the passage... eugh!

Honestly, it makes me incredibly sad. It seems everyone is trapped in a system they all know to be broken, but have to keep their heads above the water for the sake of their kids.

ETA: sorry for all the absolutes. Obviously its all circumstantial evidence based on one main school and a few little one shots in other schools.

Brilliant insight. Thanks. Explains everything

My words exactly - slots what I'm experiencing into place

[Thai at Heart]

"From my perspective, one of the reasons Thailand is unable to solve it's educational problems because there are no "problems", at least as far as reporting goes. The school where my wife teaches, (which is fairly average for a Thai school) makes sure that all reports to the district director are top heavy with high test scores (which are often thoroughly coached or outright fabricated) and a litany of program success stories and statistics. Always a big fat happy face on everything."

One of the foreign professors at my university did a funded research project on the problems of students' inability to speak English (in the English major). Much of the hard data pointed to problems with ineffective pedagogy and lack of decent class materials. Before the report was published, the Thai department head got wind of the research results. The professor's funds were frozen, he was instructed to cease his research activity, and the report never saw the light of day. Since then, all his requests for funding of subsequent research projects have been denied.

The report was just too much loss of face to bear; and that, in Thai education, is the most important thing.

I recently did a test of all grades i taught (p4-m3), because i was relatively new, i based the test around what a Japanese student shoudl know at that grade (bearing in mind that japanese english education doesnt even begin until P5 and that M1 is in effect a repetition of everything they learned in p5 and p6 only with writing" - they go all the way back to my name is... i am... i like...).

So M1 was going to be tested on some basic structures from P6 style questions, like name, age, birthday, months, days, weather, like etc. M2 was going to add in some pronouns (he likes), and a couple of new tenses (pres cont/past simple), whilst M3 was going to deal with some of the more complex tenses, passive voice, directions on top of all the other stuff. The reading passage was page 27 of the P4 smile textbook. "This is my sister, her name is... she is... she has... etc).

All incredibly simple.

It wasnt long before I had to get the best (and very good) English teacher to sit in on a few of the tests... Maybe they werent following my speech? Maybe it was too advanced? Maybe i was asking them sentence patterns they werent used to (where do you live versus where are you from? for example).

Nope, green lit. I asked her to carry out some of the tests just to check it wasnt my speaking itself that was at issue, or worse, they were just shy speaking to a foreigner in a test situation), nope. Same issues. I was shocked. She was shocked. What made her more shocked of course was that no one seemed to notice that they couldnt respond to basic questions. "but they know all this? how are they struggling with such basic questions?".

It seemed to be quite clear what was going on. Its classic "does everyone understand?" "yes teacher!" "right! next page!"

And in a way, they do. And in a way, the reading component made it blindingly clear.

Almost all the students struggled with the reading text. A p4 text just so you remember.

Of course they might. Theyre not fluent. Its a blind text. But I dont just mean they were unfamiliar with the rhythms or intonation. I mean they really couldnt recognise the words or how to make out the sounds so they could connect it to a concept. They couldnt read basic everyday words that should have been second nature to them as Middle school students.

I had a hunch and gave some of them their text book and asked them what theyd recently learned. This textbook is DENSE. Its wall to wall english and even the grammar explanations are in L2. This is not made with low level students in mind. Yet with absolute ease, almost to a man, they breezed through it only tripping up here and there.

Well this is odd... they cant read a very easy passage, but they can read a very convoluted one! Clearly this doesnt make sense. I mean i can read very simple hangul and very simple kanji. If you repeat yama enough, youre going to recognise it without thinking, so why are my students struggling over common words like study/studies or "years old" but they can bash through a piece on whatever the heck it was full of throwaway language theyll never see again?

Tangent!

Theres the case of the 9 year old kid doing her speech contest on the important benefits to the economic future of Thailand and why they should all embrace it. This girl memorised a speech that almost everyone i know would struggle to remember. Shes 9. Shes talking about concepts WAY beyond her comprehension. Clearly she doesnt understand a word shes saying. And yet, there she was knocking it out the park with perfect intonation and fluency. She must be gifted i thought! Shes maybe fluent!

But nope, when it came time for her reading test (p4 test is literally alphabet and a listof subject words (english, math, science, pe, art, music), she couldnt read the words science or maths. I tried to see if she could read the passage on the next page because science is a bit tricky ill grant you! (my name is, i am... ) and though she could do it, and she should have been practicing it in her English class, she still nevertheless struggled. Great kid, definitely strong at English, but far from fluent. So the pieces were all dropping into place im afraid.

You see, these children cannot read. They can repeat. But they cannot read. Now you might think "why is this important? theres more to fluency than just reading?"

Youre right, but go and have a look at their middle school textbooks again and ask yourself what this will do to the motivation, desire, and interest of any student trying to progress in English? The most serious issue of course is that this comes as a surprise to their Thai English teachers. It took me to sit them in my test and watch their faces drop in absolute horror when students couldnt respond to even the most basic formulations of structures theyd assumed the students understood intuitively.

Once they hit Middle school the level (and interest levels of the students - at least in my school), drops sharply. it picks back up slightly by M3, but youre still dealing with questions that a first grade middle schooler in Japan can respond to as the EASY part of a speaking test. And theyre still kinda struggling with it. Its pure golf clap stuff. So the question really is, how on earth has that come about? I know the teachers are busting their ass. The students are also trying hard, and honestly, theyre the nicest students ive taught and theres nothing at all that would suggest that these kids COULDNT achieve the same results of students in Korea and Japan. Theres no difference in intelligence or aptitude. But something is broken somewhere, and my honest opinion is that the people who designed this curriculum are out of their dam_n minds. Whether through political posturing or naive optimism, they seem to place far too steep a learning curve on the syllabus. Bear in mind that at grade 4 my students were still wrapping their heads around question forms (ive also had the pleasure of teaching in other schools as part of my tefl course here on KS, and grade 4 here seem to kinda get it, but grade 3 and below definitely dont - the best way to explicate this for them that dont teach is that its like the dog looking at your finger instead of what its pointing to - ask them a question and they think youre just naming another object).

Yet at grade 4 they should be *reading* pres cont/simple tense and dealing with pronouns and conjugating the be verb, "He is, you are, i am". By M3, they still dont seem to grasp it. Its just thrown at them with no time to digest it because by M3 they need to be at a point where they can read very extensive and elaborate text on 'issues' with reams of throwaway language theyll never use again outside of that page but are crucial to comprehending the passage... eugh!

Honestly, it makes me incredibly sad. It seems everyone is trapped in a system they all know to be broken, but have to keep their heads above the water for the sake of their kids.

ETA: sorry for all the absolutes. Obviously its all circumstantial evidence based on one main school and a few little one shots in other schools.

Brilliant insight. Thanks. Explains everything

My words exactly - slots what I'm experiencing into place

Over the moon I got my kids out of it. Such a screwed up mess it's really sad.

[The Usual Suspect]

I really thought this topic had reached the end of it's life span, but weecree posted some very relevant insights. I have had very similar experiences with some of the students I teach in regards to memorization and actual learning of the English language. Many of the students at my school are very adept at memorization. They can stand in front of an assembly of visiting dignitaries from other districts and impress the hell out of them with perfect performances of their English speaking abilities. However, if I take those same students aside and try to have a very basic conversation in English with them, it goes south very quickly. This all goes back to them being trained like circus monkeys to do educational tricks instead of being given the real tools they need to succeed. Again, it's all about saving face and looking good. The sad part is that although they have saved their faces, they have lost their <deleted>.

[Scott]

A rather personal and off-topic exchange between posters has been deleted along with replies. Posts with messed up quotes have also been deleted.

Please stay on topic and refrain from commenting about other posters.

[Noistar]

I can only comment on the English syllabus (ho ho) at my step-daughter's school. I would like to think the rest of the curriculum was organized, but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't.

So, picking English as an example, lets try this:

Mathyom 4.

Since May, she has written on (ie not filled) 20 pages in an exercise book. The dates are spanned, because apparently some class work is on worksheets which are retained by the teacher.

Of the entries in the exercise book, there are some errors which the Filipino teacher has missed 'can me ask a question' is an example.

Reference to singular, plural and past tense has no explanation that the example are 3rd party.

The lessons have treated simple examples, a whole chapter on the sensory organs and their function, a chapter on the human body and a chapter on forms of rocks.

I don't know how "I've reached puberty" is going to easily fit into a conversation, nor igneous rocks are shiny.

The Biology and Geology subjects were the exam papers, mid-term! She takes Biology lessons. What the hell has Biology got to do with English?

Her latest entries are "what is a foot, what is a tree, what is a head.........?". I tried the questions on our pet dog - she seemed to understand!

Now if the schools are basing their teaching methods on this random approach I would say 'god help them'. How much money can you throw at a system which isn't functioning?

[Noistar]

I really thought this topic had reached the end of it's life span, but weecree posted some very relevant insights. I have had very similar experiences with some of the students I teach in regards to memorization and actual learning of the English language. Many of the students at my school are very adept at memorization. They can stand in front of an assembly of visiting dignitaries from other districts and impress the hell out of them with perfect performances of their English speaking abilities. However, if I take those same students aside and try to have a very basic conversation in English with them, it goes south very quickly. This all goes back to them being trained like circus monkeys to do educational tricks instead of being given the real tools they need to succeed. Again, it's all about saving face and looking good. The sad part is that although they have saved their faces, they have lost their <deleted>.

My concern is that the school's interpretation of success in any subject may be different to actual success. In the same way as ambiguous questions have the 'right' answer determined by the teacher, so ticking all the 'right' boxes on the exam paper indicates a pass.

Using English as an example, I am finding it very frustrating to help my step-daughter with her English. I am fighting against 'the system' which wants to mould her into the standard 'pass' student, whereas I'm trying to make her proficient in English. I should be supporting the school's methods and intentions but it's impossible without giving up on her education.

It's the usual "here's my certificate, just don't expect me to know anything"

Edited September 10, 2013 by Noistar

[Somchai Mao]

A "teacher" married to a "policeman" lives across the street from us. She "teaches" pre-schoolers." She proudly wears her govt. uniform and makes sure her new car is always clean. The govt. made the loan for the car and requires minimal payback. But the LOOK she and other car driving teachers present is remarkable. Unfortunately they do not TEACH adequately. SHAME for their impact on the youth of Thailand and the country's forward movement into a fully modern democratic society. I'm glad I am NOT a teacher in LOS.

It's all about status and face, certainly not substance.

[Thai at Heart]

A "teacher" married to a "policeman" lives across the street from us. She "teaches" pre-schoolers." She proudly wears her govt. uniform and makes sure her new car is always clean. The govt. made the loan for the car and requires minimal payback. But the LOOK she and other car driving teachers present is remarkable. Unfortunately they do not TEACH adequately. SHAME for their impact on the youth of Thailand and the country's forward movement into a fully modern democratic society. I'm glad I am NOT a teacher in LOS.

It's all about status and face, certainly not substance.

You are correct. Look at the general forum. It's about Western face better than Thai face (my invention is better than your invention, my kid speaks better English than the Thai English teacher, my fish and chips is better than Thai fish and chips and on and on and on). Proper is the favorite Western face word. Whenever you read proper the next word will be about Western face. From cheese to footpaths. All face and no substance.

Problem is, Western footpaths and cheese are better than those in Thailand, and yes, the schools are better over here too.....

[Noistar]

I really thought this topic had reached the end of it's life span, but weecree posted some very relevant insights. I have had very similar experiences with some of the students I teach in regards to memorization and actual learning of the English language. Many of the students at my school are very adept at memorization. They can stand in front of an assembly of visiting dignitaries from other districts and impress the hell out of them with perfect performances of their English speaking abilities. However, if I take those same students aside and try to have a very basic conversation in English with them, it goes south very quickly. This all goes back to them being trained like circus monkeys to do educational tricks instead of being given the real tools they need to succeed. Again, it's all about saving face and looking good. The sad part is that although they have saved their faces, they have lost their <deleted>.

My concern is that the school's interpretation of success in any subject may be different to actual success. In the same way as ambiguous questions have the 'right' answer determined by the teacher, so ticking all the 'right' boxes on the exam paper indicates a pass.

Using English as an example, I am finding it very frustrating to help my step-daughter with her English. I am fighting against 'the system' which wants to mould her into the standard 'pass' student, whereas I'm trying to make her proficient in English. I should be supporting the school's methods and intentions but it's impossible without giving up on her education.

It's the usual "here's my certificate, just don't expect me to know anything"

We don't disagree as much as you may think. The Thai education system is broken and throwing more money at will not help. Throwing more subjects at the students won't help.

I think teaching English to Thai people in a government school is stupid. Teach them Thai and arithmetic.

The UK did a good job running the police force in Hong Kong. The Thais could do worse than farming out the police force to the UK and Education to Singapore.

I have not seen any indication Thais can effectively manage either. Talking about is a waste of time. Both are too far gone.

I just wish there was light on the horizon. Major changes are needed but who's going to instigate them?

Change requires investment. Investment requires a will to get things changed for the better. An uphill struggle in any country, but I believe even worse in a country which doesn't seem to embrace change.

We can but hope

[Noistar]

We don't disagree as much as you may think. The Thai education system is broken and throwing more money at will not help. Throwing more subjects at the students won't help.

I think teaching English to Thai people in a government school is stupid. Teach them Thai and arithmetic.

The UK did a good job running the police force in Hong Kong. The Thais could do worse than farming out the police force to the UK and Education to Singapore.

I have not seen any indication Thais can effectively manage either. Talking about is a waste of time. Both are too far gone.

I just wish there was light on the horizon. Major changes are needed but who's going to instigate them?

Change requires investment. Investment requires a will to get things changed for the better. An uphill struggle in any country, but I believe even worse in a country which doesn't seem to embrace change.

We can but hope

Thailand changes very easily from the top. If you look at the cultural changes made by PM Phibun he made radical changes in daily clothing and eating habits and on and on. You can look it up on the net. It happened in the late 1930's. I would tell you but no one would believe me. Then there was the changes after WWII massive cultural changes made very quickly. I would tell you again but no one would believe and the Thais just want to forget. If a culture can change from eating with hands to fork and spoon or the elimination of thousands of opium dens in a few years education should not be much of a problem. You all did know that many Thai women were topless till a few years ago right? Check Phibun.

Excuse me if I don't check your references, I have no reason to dis-believe them.

I would just try to emphasize your point that change can be easily instigated from the top. My reference to investment was intended to convey that it's the powers that be who have the control and until they can be convinced that change would benefit them, I believe that benefit for the country comes second.

Just my opinion

[oops]

Nothing will change until they remove the old Thai teachers who still live in a communist error mentality. With their regimental military

behavior. They spend hours on the boy scout drills which I know and remember America speaking out against it because it is not voluntary it's just a cover for military training.

Teachers will come in the classrooms and interrupt the foreign teachers and if the foreign teachers are making any progress with the students, the Thai teachers will tell them they can't do it.

1.If the school does provide internet they break all the computers and pile them up at the back of the class.

2.If the school has internet they turn it on for an hour in the morning at the same time when your supposed to go out to the morning assembly. When you come back, the internet is either two slow or you just can't log on.

3.They don't offer teachers a computer. They may put 15 teachers in one office and give them two computers and printers that most often don't work correctly or the push the computers into an area that makes it impossible to use.

4. I realize this is not about foreign teachers, but some foreign teachers are teaching more than just English. For instance, the Science teacher; who they never really give a budget for equipment and supplies to work from, only a few small things then ask the teacher to buy the rest with their low salary, " don't half too tell what happens there".

.5. Most of that money that the schools are getting most likely are for ceremonies, " you know the ones" every week or so they bring out fancy couches so the detector can sit in front of everyone looking like royalty. A director is supposed to be working no putting himself and a few selected staff members up on display.

6. High ranking Thai teachers will bust into classes and disrupt them intentionally. They will play loud VERY LOUD MUSIC during class ours so that the teachers can't be heard " and I do mean Loud"

7. They will have sports in the middle of the day so all the students disappear from class, instead of having on a Friday afternoon so they only miss one or two classes which isn't a problem because by friday afternoon the students aren't really with you.

8. It seems as if they are always being tested but not until after they have been out of class for several weeks, then they are tested on stuff the hadn't learned..( This varies in some schools )

9. Some schools even allow the drivers to use the kids as target practice. Yeah ! this is true, at one school I watched in horror as a small single cab truck sitting low tot he ground try to run over two little Thai girls, it was the worst thing I had ever watched as this truck plowed through the parking are " soccer Field " where these two girls were walking, the truck came up from behind them, didn't slow down. The two girls literally had to run and jump out of the way. But I see this at many schools that I have to go to for our charity group. It just shows that even the parents don't care.

10. They beat the ADHD children hoping they will learn. While at the same time in Sattahip they dress them up as ladyboys with coconut shell bra's and grass dresses so the can walk around the school all day and beat pans. Still to the day I have not been able to figure that one out. Even worse the teacher posted pictures of these young boys online. Later only to remover because they were terrible pictures. They should be playing soccer but they are teaching them to be entertainers for the wealthy.

11. Sattahip the language director out there wanted the M -6 children to just learn nursery rhymes all day long, not for their English classes, but for their Thai classes as well. These students were getting ready for a university.

12. Taking test if they fail give them the answers. But first, give them the answers so their is no reason for them to fail?

13. At a high school instead of treating them as young adults they are walking around hitting students with a stick. Then walking around with blow horns, screaming at the kids everyday. The children will listen to an hour speech every morning about nothing, it's crazy. This type of mentality only exacerbates the extremely high deaf syndrome issue. They come to classes and they are tone deaf to anyone speaking with.

Bottom line they don't teach they heard them like we do with cows.

Only a teacher would be able to report what you have reported. You are not a teacher. I know the mayor of Sattahip and the education administration and have known them for a long time. You are not telling the truth. Sorry to put it so bluntly.

Where does it say I am a teacher?

[Scott]

Posts have been deleted. This is the final warning to stay on topic and stop with the inflammatory posts.