Changing China Set to Shake World Economy, Again

[SinglePot]

Australia's economy is already threatened by reduced demand and the proposed transition in China. Manufacturing countries outside China will require Australian resources. Result.

ASEAN would need economic ties with other countries including US, Europe, Australia, Japan. Result.

ASEAN would be under reduced threat from territorial invasion by China. Result.

Etc.

China would find its way. A better more equitable and fairer way that embraces all tiers of society and ethnic minorities.

The world would accommodate and adapt.

Worth a shot in the long term history book IMHO.

Otherwise?

[SinglePot]

Food for thought:

If the 10 ASEAN nations (population about 600 million) got their act together they could be a real competitor to China.

Imagine. The 10 nations working closely together as a unit, with Japan and Australasia as very close economic partners. Financial centre in Singapore. Economic and international cooperation from Europe and the US.

ASEAN would be very powerful.

They might even need China to do some manufacturing for them. Indonesia is well placed to do this in the meantime.

Geographically ASEAN very well placed with shipping lanes north, south, east and west.

Maybe China is already worried about this possibility? It is not in China's interest for ASEAN to become strong unless China is the boss.

China Sea dispute, economic ties between China and individual ASEAN countries being forged by Xi and Li, high speed rail track all the way from Southern China to KL and beyond?

What is China's long term plan for the region.

ASEAN with Japan and Australasia could be fantastic.

[LawrenceChee]

Food for thought:

If the 10 ASEAN nations (population about 600 million) got their act together they could be a real competitor to China.

Imagine. The 10 nations working closely together as a unit, with Japan and Australasia as very close economic partners. Financial centre in Singapore. Economic and international cooperation from Europe and the US.

ASEAN would be very powerful.

They might even need China to do some manufacturing for them. Indonesia is well placed to do this in the meantime.

Geographically ASEAN very well placed with shipping lanes north, south, east and west.

Maybe China is already worried about this possibility? It is not in China's interest for ASEAN to become strong unless China is the boss.

China Sea dispute, economic ties between China and individual ASEAN countries being forged by Xi and Li, high speed rail track all the way from Southern China to KL and beyond?

What is China's long term plan for the region.

ASEAN with Japan and Australasia could be fantastic.

And they will trade with who on the scale you talk about ??

Any moderate understand all inclusive is better than exclusive and yes china is sealing deals faster than the west which is causing some green eyes naturally as they are making friends with no ties underscoring what they are best at ...commerce

They have learnt a quick lesson from the recent failures of the west .., don't put your trade on one source alone.

[SinglePot]

Food for thought:

If the 10 ASEAN nations (population about 600 million) got their act together they could be a real competitor to China.

Imagine. The 10 nations working closely together as a unit, with Japan and Australasia as very close economic partners. Financial centre in Singapore. Economic and international cooperation from Europe and the US.

ASEAN would be very powerful.

They might even need China to do some manufacturing for them. Indonesia is well placed to do this in the meantime.

Geographically ASEAN very well placed with shipping lanes north, south, east and west.

Maybe China is already worried about this possibility? It is not in China's interest for ASEAN to become strong unless China is the boss.

China Sea dispute, economic ties between China and individual ASEAN countries being forged by Xi and Li, high speed rail track all the way from Southern China to KL and beyond?

What is China's long term plan for the region.

ASEAN with Japan and Australasia could be fantastic.

And they will trade with who on the scale you talk about ??

Any moderate understand all inclusive is better than exclusive and yes china is sealing deals faster than the west which is causing some green eyes naturally as they are making friends with no ties underscoring what they are best at ...commerce

They have learnt a quick lesson from the recent failures of the west .., don't put your trade on one source alone.

They will trade with Papua New Guinea!

All the countries China does trade with. And China if the Chinese don't get too spiteful.

Anything China does ASEAN can do better, given the will and the coop from Japan, Oz, NZ and distant rumblings of people in Europe and the US clapping and saying 'well done you guys'.

[LawrenceChee]

Food for thought:

If the 10 ASEAN nations (population about 600 million) got their act together they could be a real competitor to China.

Imagine. The 10 nations working closely together as a unit, with Japan and Australasia as very close economic partners. Financial centre in Singapore. Economic and international cooperation from Europe and the US.

ASEAN would be very powerful.

They might even need China to do some manufacturing for them. Indonesia is well placed to do this in the meantime.

Geographically ASEAN very well placed with shipping lanes north, south, east and west.

Maybe China is already worried about this possibility? It is not in China's interest for ASEAN to become strong unless China is the boss.

China Sea dispute, economic ties between China and individual ASEAN countries being forged by Xi and Li, high speed rail track all the way from Southern China to KL and beyond?

What is China's long term plan for the region.

ASEAN with Japan and Australasia could be fantastic.

And they will trade with who on the scale you talk about ??

Any moderate understand all inclusive is better than exclusive and yes china is sealing deals faster than the west which is causing some green eyes naturally as they are making friends with no ties underscoring what they are best at ...commerce

They have learnt a quick lesson from the recent failures of the west .., don't put your trade on one source alone.

They will trade with Papua New Guinea!

All the countries China does trade with. And China if the Chinese don't get too spiteful.

Anything China does ASEAN can do better, given the will and the coop from Japan, Oz, NZ and distant rumblings of people in Europe and the US clapping and saying 'well done you guys'.

ASEAN is made up of the most pragmatic Asian nations and they understand the world trade very well. Just trade ...even Vietnam announced today they are ready to steady bilateral talks over the disputes islands with its eyes kept on trade ties. And again stumping the western analysts that Vietnam would stand against the recent island spats and hold firm.

Again pragmatism ...very easy for the east to understand and at times very agitating and frustrating for the west to comprehend. Only Philippines stand alone and I mention in an earlier post.

They do the least trade with china and has nothing much to offer at this time, hence the need to stick very closely with the USA and Japan in the hope of having some allies. The remaining nations in ASEAN are firmly on route to understand trading with china is like another day of trade and they want to ride the next wave.

I am not sure if there is distant clapping since the UK went on a major offensive today to announce deals with a biggest yuan away facility in Europe and also easier visa rules for the Chinese including a VIP service where the immigration service goes to your office / home to have the visa processed using biometric equipment

I can possibly understand the hatred better now especially when I see my Brit partners on business cursing the recent closure of all consulate services and having everything consolidated to the HK office.

[SinglePot]

Just thinking outside the box Lawrence.

China want to be the big boss in SEAsia?

As I say, thinking outside the box. That's what I'm paid to do.

And that's why me and Beijing never worked.

BTW. Pragmatism is Chinese speak isn't it? Introduced by Deng after Mao slipped up.

Wasn't aware it was necessarily a SEAsia attribute.

Edited October 15, 2013 by SinglePot

[LawrenceChee]

Just thinking outside the box Lawrence.

China want to be the big boss in SEAsia?

As I say, thinking outside the box. That's what I'm paid to do.

And that's why me and Beijing never worked.

BTW. Pragmatism is Chinese speak isn't it? Introduced by Deng after Mao slipped up.

Wasn't aware it was necessarily a SEAsia attribute.

Nope they don't want to be the boss of any regions period.

China is spread out now in Latin America, Canada, Europe, Australia, Africa and Asia...they really just want to trade and engage in resource management for their growing population and their needs.

I think u should read some other threads/ postings on TV...seems like many Asians have a practical and pragmatic approach. Sin sot anyone ?

[SinglePot]

Most of the 10, if not all, the ASEAN nations have an intangible belief system or ideology that goes beyond the practical pragmatic.

China has only Deng Xiaoping pragmatism. No faith other than the harsh reality of survival and an increasing nouveau riche greed mentality.

Reducing the 10 ASEAN nations to the belief system of Deng Xiaoping is an insult.

Thai people for example are very different in many ways from Chinese people. Yes, they have the lowest common denominator in common, 'is there food on the table'.

But that is as far as it goes.

Edited October 15, 2013 by SinglePot

[Scott]

This thread may be of interest to our readers. It's about the UK changing the visa regulations for the Chinese, which will make it easier for them to travel to the UK.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/674468-uk-visa-changes-bbc-report/#entry6922353

[LawrenceChee]

This thread may be of interest to our readers. It's about the UK changing the visa regulations for the Chinese, which will make it easier for them to travel to the UK.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/674468-uk-visa-changes-bbc-report/#entry6922353

They are also starting a new VIP expedited visa next day approval device where they visit you at your office or home to have the visa processed.

Great for high street and those in the tourism business ...a boom will happen there and in the business arena as the Chinese do think highly of the Brits...after all we all drink tea

[SinglePot]

Yep. A nice cup of Earl Grey with a butter Osborne biscuit.

Class.

Tier 1 you might say.

Tally Ho.

[pkspeaker]

Oh really..the us is propping up china? Lets not forget the us financing its debt by massive borrowing from china..and we're all typing away on devices made in china.. If china is an 'economic mess' then what would you call the rest of the world? what isn't an economic mess? south america, africa, ME, India? Pubs insists that china is such a mess with all his article postings because it's "communist".

The way I see it is China obviously is not socialist-which is what the original communist model was all about.. I mean in the Soviet Union, the SU would manufacture the televisions, the phones, the cars, the trains, not multinationals..

Today's China is just a 1 party system; in the US we have a 2 party system.. In neither case does the 'vote' matter.. I don't vote because its a waste of time and we're still gonna have the govt controlled by the 2 party system.

Pub: the sad part is that US is doing so much to prop of China economy. Do you think if Americans purchased bad investments from China, China would step in and make good on them. That is what US did with CMOs and all of us tax payers paid all of those Chinese bond holders that purchased risky investments for high rates of return.

Lawrence:

Haha, not sure I would be bragging a out my expertise in investments if I purchased gold at $ 300 Orleans and did not sell it at $ 1,800 when everyone knew it was on its way back down.

[SinglePot]

"Changing China Set to Shake World Economy, Again."

Is everybody comfortable with the idea of 20 percent of the world's population, and potentially the world's economy, being controlled by a small number of 'elite' CCP individuals and families operating out of Beijing?

[pkspeaker]

no but the US is also controlled by a tiny elite aristocracy , every country has an aristocracy that controls the country.

you guys get too caught up in this notion of 'dictatorship' vs 'democracy' .. countries have a president and/or pm, a cabinet, and some type of national assembly(s). exactly how they get their representation doesn't really matter to the average citizen.

[boomerangutang]

no but the US is also controlled by a tiny elite aristocracy , every country has an aristocracy that controls the country. you guys get too caught up in this notion of 'dictatorship' vs 'democracy' .. countries have a president and/or pm, a cabinet, and some type of national assembly(s). exactly how they get their representation doesn't really matter to the average citizen.

Granted, the 'average citizen' worldwide is concerned mostly about immediate family and paycheck. They also believe there's nothing they can do to affect changes for the better. However, that attitude is more entrenched in China than the US, and that's how the Chinese politburo wants it. Additionally, Beijing heavies are quite effective at getting the populace to think identically. In that sense, China is about halfway between N.Korea and the US. It wasn't long ago (about 40 years) that China was as screwed up as N.Korea in regards to the populace thinking in lockstep, including unwavering adulation for their leader (Mao) - which led to sustained atrocities across the region, including Tibet.

[pkspeaker]

True, but although the US Congress is elected, it has and aproval rating of between 5-10%.. The Chinese central government and NPC has a much higher approval rating..

There is something seriously wrong with our democracy when the Congress is 'elected' but has a less than 10% approval rating! most people don't even know who their congressman is.

Edited October 16, 2013 by pkspeaker

[Credo]

And just who does the poll in China? I can imagine someone walking up to someone in China and asking if you approve of the NPC. I would question the results of any such poll.

[SinglePot]

CCP are self appointed and are answerable to nobody.

[pkspeaker]

I can't find the article on the internet I got that from, I remember reading it in either The Nation or the Bangkok Post..what it said was in China, the local governments had a low approval rating(corruption, power abuse), the central government had a high approval rating..the author of the study insisted that the poll respondents were not in anyway intimidated.

[SinglePot]

National People's Congress

Under China's 1982 constitution, the most powerful organ of state is meant to be the National People's Congress (NPC), China's parliament. In truth, it is little more than a rubber stamp for party decisions.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/in_depth/china_politics/government/html/7.stm

Edited October 16, 2013 by SinglePot

[LawrenceChee]

National People's Congress

Under China's 1982 constitution, the most powerful organ of state is meant to be the National People's Congress (NPC), China's parliament. In truth, it is little more than a rubber stamp for party decisions.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/in_depth/china_politics/government/html/7.stm

I suppose by that you are defining most governments in the democratic sense where unless the whip is lifted you will vote along the party lines.

Most Americans would rather have a rubber stamp moment now just to get out of this financial mess where parties ego are affecting the average man on the street more

Seen Singapore lately since their independence like 45 years ago ? Same political party PAP with as little as 2 opposition members in the parliament for most of the years until lately and would you define that country as a failure or evil ?

[SinglePot]

Press the links in the How China is Ruled chart from the attached link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/in_depth/china_politics/government/html/7.stm

Uncontrolled power in the hands of the CCP.

Edited October 16, 2013 by SinglePot

[boomerangutang]

I can't find the article on the internet I got that from, I remember reading it in either The Nation or the Bangkok Post..what it said was in China, the local governments had a low approval rating(corruption, power abuse), the central government had a high approval rating..the author of the study insisted that the poll respondents were not in anyway intimidated.

Saddam Hussein had 99% approval record also, same for Assad's father and other oppressive dictators. Heck, Chubby Boy Kim in N.Korea has 100%, even though some of those voting have families in hard labor prison camps for 'thought crimes'. Rule of thumb for such polls indicating 'approval rating': if they're over 90%, the survey is fixed and/or those voting have only one category to choose ....or else.

[FDog]

What has approval ratings or method of government got to do with this thread? This is about China's economy. How they are governed is irrelevant.

The US is a democracy 'of sorts' and is an economic basket case. China is obviously doing something very very right.

[boomerangutang]

What has approval ratings or method of government got to do with this thread? This is about China's economy. How they are governed is irrelevant.

The US is a democracy 'of sorts' and is an economic basket case. China is obviously doing something very very right.

How China is governed is irrelevant to their economy? That's like saying the construction of the hull of a ship is irrelevant to whether it's seaworthy or not.

[FDog]

What has approval ratings or method of government got to do with this thread? This is about China's economy. How they are governed is irrelevant.

The US is a democracy 'of sorts' and is an economic basket case. China is obviously doing something very very right.

How China is governed is irrelevant to their economy? That's like saying the construction of the hull of a ship is irrelevant to whether it's seaworthy or not.

Well if you want to insist it is relevant then you have to admit they are doing a fantastic job as it is an economic superpower. If it goes t*ts up then most of the world will suffer greatly.

Any posts about what the govt is like re human rights or how they are voted or not voted into power is not on topic. This is about the economy only. Not whether you prefer a democracy.

[SinglePot]

Agree: approval ratings raised by pkspeaker are a red herring to this thread.

Disagree: the economy of China is unrelated to the nature of the government.

If so, the CCP can take no credit for the economic growth seen in the last 30 years.

My concern: the economy of China, and potentially the economy of the world is in the hands of, or at the least significantly affected by, a small body of very powerful men who are answerable to nobody.

[SinglePot]

"Politburo

Every significant decision affecting China's 1.3bn people is first discussed and approved by a handful of men who sit on the party's political bureau (politburo), the nexus of all power in China.

The 24-member Politburo is elected by the party's central committee. But real power lies with its nine-member standing committee, which works as a kind of inner cabinet and groups together the country's most influential leaders."

Sorry guys.

I don't think this is healthy.

[LawrenceChee]

With respect Lawrence, this thread is not about the issues of the US government, it is about China, the Chinese economy and the global economic implications.

With respect Singlepot, any critique of the Chinese government and it's governance ability deserves a fair comparison with governments of economies of similar scale.

If China's current government policies are ineffective, I am objective enough to want to see if there is a viable or better alternative.

I think they as holding true to their own ideology while adopting western business practices that suit their needs and the demographics.

At the moment, I believe this is the best model for them at their scale and their global connectivity.

I would find it unconvincing if there is still a huge group out there who think china is still purely communist in thinking or government economic actions.

[SinglePot]

"I would find it unconvincing if there is still a huge group out there who think china is still purely communist in thinking or government economic actions."

So is the CCP going to be renamed?

The New Communist Party.

The Confused Communist Party.

The Pragmatic Party.

Whatever it is called, it will be run by the same few good men presumably.