Changing China Set to Shake World Economy, Again

[SinglePot]

From the link provided by L Chee.

"Corruption in China's healthcare industry is widespread, fuelled in part by low base salaries for doctors at the country's 13,500 public hospitals."

[LawrenceChee]

From the link provided by L Chee.

"Corruption in China's healthcare industry is widespread, fuelled in part by low base salaries for doctors at the country's 13,500 public hospitals."

Very sad indeed for all involved.

It's a cycle that is hard not to be cynical.

To keep healthcare low and affordable for the general citizens, you need basic operations at public hospitals to keep the fees low.

This means low to moderate labor costs, spartan environments and medication that is subsidized.

This however creates an environment where doctors and nurses are easily tempted by bribes as the recent case in Danone shows in Tianjin.

The nurses believe since it is a reputable brand, there really is nothing wrong pocketing side cash for telling mums that this is a good brand for their babies.

Those who were in China early on and comparing it then and now would also give credit to the creativity of western media in advertisements and creating wants. Back then the ads produced by the Chinese firms were very basic and boring and when the big guns arrived suddenly everything from rice cookers, apartments and even oil looks in wresting on telly.

Mind you there are also highly paid doctors and medical professionals but they work at the best hospitals and the fees charged to the patients there are in sync with the salaries.

[onionluke]

Doun;t worry about it ?

[SinglePot]

"Mind you there are also highly paid doctors and medical professionals but they work at the best hospitals and the fees charged to the patients there are in sync with the salaries."

And these are the ones that Chinese employees of big west pharmaceutical companies have been doing Guanxi with.

I'll be in touch with the low down on the baby milk scandal.

Happy Monday.

[Publicus]

Well, the new CCP-PRC tourism protection laws are not having much affect or impact. as I'd said would very likely be the case.

Here's the up to date information provided by a newspaper in the sovereign country of Taiwan:

New tourism law doesn't deter Beijing's day trip defrauders

Illegal one-day tours continue to be a blight on Beijing's tourism market after the government implemented a new tourism law on Oct. 1 to crack down on cheap tours which hoodwink tourists into going shopping instead of the advertised destination in order for the tour operators to make kickbacks, according to the Chinese-language Beijing News.

The new law requires travel agencies to obtain permission from and register with local governments and forbids agencies from using unreasonably low prices to lure customers and make money by taking them to shop or attractions that require additional fees. Offenders face a fine of 300,000 yuan (US$49,000) or more.

A staff member of a travel agency said the firm's 240-yuan (US$39) one-day tour did not include the Ming Dynasty Waxworks Palace. Tourists must pay an additional fee to visit the attraction, which is how the agency makes its profits.

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20131006000002&cid=1102

[LawrenceChee]

Well, the new CCP-PRC tourism protection laws are not having much affect or impact. as I'd said would very likely be the case.

Here's the up to date information provided by a newspaper in the sovereign country of Taiwan:

New tourism law doesn't deter Beijing's day trip defrauders

Illegal one-day tours continue to be a blight on Beijing's tourism market after the government implemented a new tourism law on Oct. 1 to crack down on cheap tours which hoodwink tourists into going shopping instead of the advertised destination in order for the tour operators to make kickbacks, according to the Chinese-language Beijing News.

The new law requires travel agencies to obtain permission from and register with local governments and forbids agencies from using unreasonably low prices to lure customers and make money by taking them to shop or attractions that require additional fees. Offenders face a fine of 300,000 yuan (US$49,000) or more.

A staff member of a travel agency said the firm's 240-yuan (US$39) one-day tour did not include the Ming Dynasty Waxworks Palace. Tourists must pay an additional fee to visit the attraction, which is how the agency makes its profits.

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20131006000002&cid=1102

Wonder if anyone have been to Phuket and took a jet ski ride recently or bought some gems ?

Or maybe a ATV tour in Mexico ? Got ripped off in Jamaica at the Dunn Falls being told u need to have waterfall anti slip shoes ? Pyramid photo harassment shots in Egypt

This is a worldwide problem called greed.

No law will stop it but putting one will mean that china is moving towards enforcement or the cynics opinion of another theatre show of hypocrite laws.

I choose the positive spin.

[Publicus]

Well, the new CCP-PRC tourism protection laws are not having much affect or impact. as I'd said would very likely be the case.

Here's the up to date information provided by a newspaper in the sovereign country of Taiwan:

New tourism law doesn't deter Beijing's day trip defrauders

Illegal one-day tours continue to be a blight on Beijing's tourism market after the government implemented a new tourism law on Oct. 1 to crack down on cheap tours which hoodwink tourists into going shopping instead of the advertised destination in order for the tour operators to make kickbacks, according to the Chinese-language Beijing News.

The new law requires travel agencies to obtain permission from and register with local governments and forbids agencies from using unreasonably low prices to lure customers and make money by taking them to shop or attractions that require additional fees. Offenders face a fine of 300,000 yuan (US$49,000) or more.

A staff member of a travel agency said the firm's 240-yuan (US$39) one-day tour did not include the Ming Dynasty Waxworks Palace. Tourists must pay an additional fee to visit the attraction, which is how the agency makes its profits.

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20131006000002&cid=1102

Wonder if anyone have been to Phuket and took a jet ski ride recently or bought some gems ?

Or maybe a ATV tour in Mexico ? Got ripped off in Jamaica at the Dunn Falls being told u need to have waterfall anti slip shoes ? Pyramid photo harassment shots in Egypt

This is a worldwide problem called greed.

No law will stop it but putting one will mean that china is moving towards enforcement or the cynics opinion of another theatre show of hypocrite laws.

I choose the positive spin.

And spin it is.

[LawrenceChee]

True it is hard to keep 1.3 billion folks happy and the world community respectful as everyone's opinions and sense of importance on issues is always different

Heck even Singapore with only 5.5 million can't keep their people happy or closer to home in Chiang Mai ...wonder if anyone has see the last committee meeting at Riverside Condo ...the dramas of a few hundred households could start a new drama series on TV

[Scott]

Please stay on-topic. Riverside Condo's is a pretty far stretch for being on-topic.

Simply responding that it's almost the same other places is probably not a relevant point of discussion, if done on a regular basis.

[SinglePot]

The attached condo's are right on topic.

http://www.businessinsider.com/satellite-pictures-of-chinese-ghost-cities-2013-3?op=1#ixzz2fSxAX0iO

China is very adept at positive spin.

Something like 250 million rural Chinese have become urban dwellers in the past 10 years. Equivalent to 25 cities the size of New York.

Even the US couldn't manage that scale of operation successfully.

I wish the CCP Good luck keeping a small percentage of the PRC happy and the world community respectfully on its side.

[SinglePot]

The background to the baby milk scandal.

Seems like the CCP-PRC have ways of dealing with healthy competition.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-23157982

It's a shame about the one child policy. Manufacturers of baby products would make a killing.

[LawrenceChee]

The background to the baby milk scandal.

Seems like the CCP-PRC have ways of dealing with healthy competition.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-23157982

It's a shame about the one child policy. Manufacturers of baby products would make a killing.

It's great to have healthy competition but when all foreign milk brand prices remains high to take advantage of demand and not conforming to market supply / demand rules, it's price fixing to take advantage of the situation.

When China targets these claims and complaints, it's construed as targeting foreign firms instead of being perceived as taking fair action to protect its consumers.

It's hard to please the critics. The link below shows that foreign brand formula price has increased by 30% since 2008 ! Inflation or pure market greed ? Most brands have agreed to cut their formula prices by 5-20% after the probe.

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-08/danone-to-cut-china-infant-formula-prices-by-up-to-20-.html

The link below shows this is the 2nd time Fonterra the largest NZ diary company is involved in a milk scandal incident with the most recent scare last month.

On my part, I'm glad the courts have given the orders and the death penalty no weakness shown there for the people involved in Sanlumilk scandal.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Fonterra-milk-scandal-claims-second-Chinese-baby/tabid/417/articleID/71545/Default.aspx

[SinglePot]

China presumably is very well aware of the perception that locally made products lack a certain 'Je ne sais quoi'.

Heck, even high rollers wouldn't be seen dead in a Chinese motor car.

I can't wait for BMW China to have a recall. Can you?

[SinglePot]

BTW. I think there's a tourism opportunity in the ghost cities. Potential UNESCO World Heritage Sights maybe.

I know people who have seen them. As scary as hell.

[LawrenceChee]

China presumably is very well aware of the perception that locally made products lack a certain 'Je ne sais quoi'.

Heck, even high rollers wouldn't be seen dead in a Chinese motor car.

I can't wait for BMW China to have a recall. Can you?

I don't want to see any brands foreign or local fail as I am a businessman at heart...when business fail,..the workers walk home with nothing for the family.

That's sad indeed for a man to tell the family he lost his job and hold his confidence together.

[Publicus]

China presumably is very well aware of the perception that locally made products lack a certain 'Je ne sais quoi'.

Heck, even high rollers wouldn't be seen dead in a Chinese motor car.

I can't wait for BMW China to have a recall. Can you?

I don't want to see any brands foreign or local fail as I am a businessman at heart...when business fail,..the workers walk home with nothing for the family.

That's sad indeed for a man to tell the family he lost his job and hold his confidence together.

Transparency International based in Germany has found that in developing economies corruption typically consumes one-third of GDP.

That is, without corruption in the developing economies, such as that of the CCP-PRC, GDP would be a third greater than it is in any given year.

The CCP are busy filling their pockets and hauling off money in wheelbarrels while giving little or no attention to the many milk and food scandals throughout the country. These food and milk scandals don't occur much in many other countries but constantly makes the headlines in the CCP-PRC.

So I suppose it's no surprise - although it's terribly shocking - that this Taiwan newspaper reported that 5 kg rats are reported running around Hunan province on the Mainland but that the government does nothing about it. So the villagers have taken an unbelievable and unimaginable, but true action, on their own.

Freak 5kg rat caught and eaten in Hunan village

The Godzilla rat that had been terrorizing local Hunan farmers and devouring whole fish has finally been caught. Not to waste the catch, the farmers promptly served it up as a dish, reports the Hunan-based Sanxiang Metropolis Daily.

An 80-year-old villager said he had never seen such a huge rat.

The villagers made the rat into a dish but reportedly broke two cooking knives in the process because they could not cleave the rat's thick bones.

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?cid=1103&MainCatID=11&id=20131001000004

The CCP-PRC 'cuisine' does leave a great deal to be desired to begin with.

[SinglePot]

China presumably is very well aware of the perception that locally made products lack a certain 'Je ne sais quoi'.

Heck, even high rollers wouldn't be seen dead in a Chinese motor car.

I can't wait for BMW China to have a recall. Can you?

I don't want to see any brands foreign or local fail as I am a businessman at heart...when business fail,..the workers walk home with nothing for the family.

That's sad indeed for a man to tell the family he lost his job and hold his confidence together.

I wasn't suggesting for a moment that a recall would cause BMW to fail in China. Just pointing out that even great Western manufacturers occasionally have a quality control issue.

Yep. CCP-PRC do like full employment don't they. Even if it is inefficient.

But there again, 13percent of Chinese people live on less than 40 baht a day.

Maybe the PRC should adopt the Japanese ethic where the employee is effectively wedded to the company?

My experience is the Chinese employee is wedded to self preservation. Not exactly team players eh?

But no. This is China.

[Publicus]

BTW. I think there's a tourism opportunity in the ghost cities. Potential UNESCO World Heritage Sights maybe.

I know people who have seen them. As scary as hell.

Eerie.

Don't know how they can do that or how they can hack such eerie and bizarre stuff as ghost cities.

[SinglePot]

Yes interesting story about the large rat.

Apparently rat has frequently been sold as lamb in the PRC.

Or was it beef? Can't be sure.

Anyway, if there's another famine CCP will have a pragmatic solution no doubt.

[SinglePot]

BTW. I think there's a tourism opportunity in the ghost cities. Potential UNESCO World Heritage Sights maybe.

I know people who have seen them. As scary as hell.

Eerie.

Don't know how they can do that or how they can hack such eerie and bizarre stuff as ghost cities.

My German friends couldn't. Lucky they had an X5 and a large dog in the back to make a quick getaway.

True.

[folium]

BTW. I think there's a tourism opportunity in the ghost cities. Potential UNESCO World Heritage Sights maybe.

I know people who have seen them. As scary as hell.

Ghost cities?

Would that be Detroit, Camden, Newark, Gary, Flint etc, etc?

[Publicus]

How long can the Communist party survive in China?

As the economy slows and middle-class discontent grows, it is the question that’s now being asked not only outside but inside the country. Even at the Central Party School there is talk of the unthinkable: the collapse of Chinese communism.

Tucked away between China’s top spy school and the ancient imperial summer palace in the west of Beijing lies the only place in the country where the demise of the ruling Communist party can be openly debated without fear of reprisal.

But this leafy address is not home to some US-funded liberal think-tank or an underground dissident cell.

It is the campus of the Party School of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China, the elite training academy for the country’s autocratic leaders that is described in official propaganda as a “furnace to foster the spirit of party members”.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/533a6374-1fdc-11e3-8861-00144feab7de.html#slide0

Edited October 7, 2013 by Publicus

[SinglePot]

Interesting article.

If, and it's a big if, the middle classes revolted, who would they turn to for leadership?

There is no credible opposition. Or is it under the surface?

Seems to me the people of China are used to just towing the line. Robotic subordination is in their psyche.

Edited October 7, 2013 by SinglePot

[SinglePot]

BTW. I think there's a tourism opportunity in the ghost cities. Potential UNESCO World Heritage Sights maybe.

I know people who have seen them. As scary as hell.

Ghost cities?

Would that be Detroit, Camden, Newark, Gary, Flint etc, etc?

You can still hear the sound of Tamla Motown.

China's ghost cities; just the whistling cold wind from Siberia between the substandard concrete scrapers.

Not totally disimilar from Beijing as it happens.

Cities without a Soul.

[folium]

How long can the Communist party survive in China?

As the economy slows and middle-class discontent grows, it is the question that’s now being asked not only outside but inside the country. Even at the Central Party School there is talk of the unthinkable: the collapse of Chinese communism.

Tucked away between China’s top spy school and the ancient imperial summer palace in the west of Beijing lies the only place in the country where the demise of the ruling Communist party can be openly debated without fear of reprisal.

But this leafy address is not home to some US-funded liberal think-tank or an underground dissident cell.

It is the campus of the Party School of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China, the elite training academy for the country’s autocratic leaders that is described in official propaganda as a “furnace to foster the spirit of party members”.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/533a6374-1fdc-11e3-8861-00144feab7de.html#slide0

What an excellent, well-written article.

Here's an interesting 2 part wager....which will happen first? which will happen last?

a) Collapse of CCP.

US elects female President.

c) Berlusconi spends time in jail.

d) England win the World Cup (football/soccer)

[Publicus]

Interesting article.

If, and it's a big if, the middle classes revolted, who would they turn to for leadership?

There is no credible opposition. Or is it under the surface?

Seems to me the people of China are used to just towing the line. Robotic subordination is in their psyche.

True, there isn't any group or organization in any shape or form on the Mainland.

A post-CCP government would have to bring to Beijing a lot of democracy advocates from Hong Kong.

There are liberal reformers in the CCP with governing experience at the provincial and national level who would have to take the overall lead in all of this.

There are too many of them to name here, but Wang Yang, former governor of the prosperous and liberal Guangdong province in the southernmost PRC would be one. Guangdong includes its liberal capital Guangzhou City (the old Canton) and the even more liberal and prosperous Shenzhen City which benefits tremendously from abutting Hong Kong. But then the whole of the province might well secede, so that has to be a consideration, given they like close by Taiwan's democracy and society.

Wang is one of four vice-premiers and sits on the Central Committee but was denied a position on the Politburo by Xi Jinping. He's the favorite of many Western leaders of governments, which is a major reason I point him out. He made his name as a reformer while Guangdong governor, so people know he's exceptional.

The Chinese after the CCP would need to turn to Taiwan, to Hong Kong, Singapore, S Korea and, horrors, Japan for guidance and direction. They'd have to import Western political leaders and intellectuals as advisors.

Of course, hard line CCP members have faith that post-CCP democracy in China would fail miserably and that the people would be clamoring for the return of the CCP to restore order. The fact is, if the CCP were to try to return, there would be a new civil war.

Another central factor are the PLA regional commanders who remain nothing more than Chinese warlords who are loyal to their regional CCP officials, nominally loyal to Beijing. I don't know the inside baseball of these commanders or how they might align, but what they choose to do would have a powerful affect from the outset.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Publicus

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and reply have been deleted. Stay on topic.

[SinglePot]

How long can the Communist party survive in China?

As the economy slows and middle-class discontent grows, it is the question thats now being asked not only outside but inside the country. Even at the Central Party School there is talk of the unthinkable: the collapse of Chinese communism.

Tucked away between Chinas top spy school and the ancient imperial summer palace in the west of Beijing lies the only place in the country where the demise of the ruling Communist party can be openly debated without fear of reprisal.

But this leafy address is not home to some US-funded liberal think-tank or an underground dissident cell.

It is the campus of the Party School of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China, the elite training academy for the countrys autocratic leaders that is described in official propaganda as a furnace to foster the spirit of party members.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/533a6374-1fdc-11e3-8861-00144feab7de.html#slide0

What an excellent, well-written article.

Here's an interesting 2 part wager....which will happen first? which will happen last?

a) Collapse of CCP.

US elects female President.

c) Berlusconi spends time in jail.

d) England win the World Cup (football/soccer)

Good question.

But we need to add a couple of options.

e) China winning the World Cup.

f) Small German dogs becoming an expensive delicacy in restaurants.

[SinglePot]

"Wang Yang, former governor of the prosperous and liberal Guangdong province in the southernmost PRC would be one."

I assume he has bodyguards?

Seems like the further South you go in China the better it gets.

No disrespect to the Mongolians. Climb back over The Great Wall of China and the sun starts shining.

China Economy and the OP. Why Britain let HK go back to what the HK Chinese call peasants, I don't know.

China Economy moves from manufacturing to consumption and service industry.

Oh Yeah.

[SinglePot]

PS. Mrs Obama is in a different class from Mrs Xi Jinping.