Mayday, Urgent Call For Help!

[verzenden]

- I entered Thailand 9 months ago on a non immigrant visa class 'ED'. 4 times 3 months.

- After almost 3 months i went for a holiday to Laos, not with the intention of making a visa run.

- When i came back from Laos a week later i went to the immigration office in bkk as well.

- They said i did not had to do the 90 day report since i had been to laos a couple of days before and had a new visa until januari already, so i left.

- I came back to the immigration office 3 monhts later, in januari, my visa had expired 4 days, i came their for the 90 day report, which i at the time understood was my new extension for another 3 months, so saving myself a borderrun.

- Today i went to the immigration office for a new 90 day report, my 'visa' expired a couple of days ago.

- The immigration office told me today that my visa had expired more than 3 months ago, the stamp they gave me when i came back from Laos.

- They seemed more than happy to tell me i had to pay the max overstay of 20.000 Baht.

- At this time i still did not understand what i had done wrong as i was still living with the idea in my head that the last 90 day report was my visa extension. They tried to explain me...

- They said that whenever you do a 90 day report you have to leave the kingdom as well!

- So my logic told me: If i go to Laos i dont have to do the 90 day report. If i go to the immigration office i have to make a borderrun as well, so what's the f#cking logic of doing a 90 day report. I was extremely confused why anyone would bother to do a 90 day report if it anyway required a borderrun but a borderrun itself makes you not to have to do the 90 day report.

- Soo i left the immigration office, still very confused, and went to my university. They help 'we' students with our visa stuff.

- Here i got the full explenation how everything worked. They said if you don't wanna leave the country you need to pay for a extension, something like 1900 baht.

- Why did the immigration office not tell me my visa had expired when i did my 90 day report 3 months ago? A lot of people checked in there since i had informed about driving licence as well.

- Why did the immigration office never mentioned to me the option of a visa extension, paying the 1900 baht?

- Trying to solve the problem. The 20.000 is a lot of money for me. So was there any way of avoiding to pay it? I mentioned options like burning my pasport, but they said all would be in the computer anyway. I mentioned staying in the kingdom another 3 years without bothering visas any longer and pay the 20.000 after a couple of years. They informed me that if you have lot of overstay the police will lock you up behind bars untill everything is sorted out. So no option either.

- Than i realised i have the 3 months overstay already and now i'm scared like H#LL that i will end up behind bars if any cop will ask for my i.d. Now i locked myself up in my apartment, no cops here.

Can anyone give me advise what to do? Please don't tell me i stupid and should have known or something, it's to late for that and won't help me. I did everything with the best intentions. Since i busy starting my own business i probably not finish my 4 year study here anyway. Next month i planned to go back to Holland anyway. Now i consider leaving the kingdom ASAP. I plan to empty the ATM machine so i have the option of corruption if a cop would ask me for my i.d.

[jdinasia]

nope ... your only option is to pay your overstay and go get a new non-imm-ed outside of Thailand

[lopburi3]

1. Pay the 20k that you owe and leave. Or you face jail/fine/deportation. You were in the wrong.

2. A visa only allows a 90 day stay. You can not get another 90 days by reporting your address or paying 1,900 baht (at most an extension would be a few days).

3. You do not leave the country when you do a 90 day report. You only do a 90 day report on an extension of stay, which you did not have. With your visa you have to leave the country every 90 days.

[Khutan]

lopburi3;

exactly, great summary

[britmaveric]

Expensive lesson but, I guaranteed you won't let that happen again.

[verzenden]

2. A visa only allows a 90 day stay. You can not get another 90 days by reporting your address or paying 1,900 baht (at most an extension would be a few days).

If that is the case i'm still confused why i did a succesful 90 day report 3 months ago, as my visa was already expired back than why didn't anyone bother to tell me? Today it was the first thing they noticed. I have a multiple entry non immigration class ED visa. I payed something like 8000 baht for it in Holland, can't remember exactly.

The uni said i could have done the 1900 baht extension, if someone would have told me this before.

I contacted my embassy as well. They advise me to take care if going outside over the weekend. I know getting checked by the police is a small change but i have been checked before. It just a risk I'm not willing to take. They can't offer any more help. They advise to wait for monday as the uni is trying to still get my pasport properly stamped and their negotiating the 20.000 baht overstay as well.

The embassy did confirm my visa now is gone and i will have to get a new one in Amsterdam. The immigration office adviced me to inmediatly leave the kingdom, think i just take a low profile over the weekend and see what the uni can do, else, going back holland is the only remaining option.

[jdinasia]

1. Pay the 20k that you owe and leave. Or you face jail/fine/deportation. You were in the wrong.

2. A visa only allows a 90 day stay. You can not get another 90 days by reporting your address or paying 1,900 baht (at most an extension would be a few days).

3. You do not leave the country when you do a 90 day report. You only do a 90 day report on an extension of stay, which you did not have. With your visa you have to leave the country every 90 days.

Since he didn't state what school or if his school ever arranged an extension of stay (the reporting gig) I have no idea ... but I guess he did get the 90 day check in thing set up and didn't get a re-entry stam ....

then again I could just be reading it all wrong

[lopburi3]

The information you got from your University is not correct. On a multi entry visa you have to exit the country to obtain another 90 day stay.

When you made the unnecessary 90 day address report it appeared to those doing the check that you needed to do so as you had exceeded 90 days (you were already on overstay). They never checked to see if you were permitted to stay that long - there interest was the address report and that you were within the allowed 7 day window. Today they did notice. And they correctly advised you to leave ASAP.

[jdinasia]

Lop ... Webster ... Chula ... etc ...

Can move you from haveing to leave the country and just have to report instead ...

[lopburi3]

Lop ... Webster ... Chula ... etc ...

Can move you from haveing to leave the country and just have to report instead ...

No. You do not have an option to report to immigration rather than leave the country when here on a visa stay.

The only way you do that is apply for and receive an extension of stay for reasons such as employment, family, retirement and such.

[mbkudu]

I have an 'ED' non-immigrant visa in my passport right now. I have not utilised it yet, but will next month. It is an education visa. It is good for 90 days. After the first 60 days I must submit my passport to my university in Bangkok. They will then have my 'ED' visa extended for a period of one year. During this time I do not need to make any border crossing out of Thailand. How could a full time student make visa runs with all the work, class time and exams scheduled? After that period of one year, as long as I am still currently in university and making the minimum GPA, my visa will be extended again for a year. This will go on until I graduate. It seems that the OP went on a holiday and then failed to get the re-entry stamp coming back in.

Edited April 21, 2006 by mbkudu

[Master Chief]

The rules are very clear.

You have overstayed your visa and you must return home ASAP. There is nothing anyone can do for you in this case, nor embassy or school.

Pay your overstay and leave now.

[verzenden]

Well as it seems there's not much hope left for me! As you might have read i planned to leave next month anyway. If my business plan is working out (business in Holland) i not feel any need to return here for a long term stay. Still i'm very sad. It's the feeling we farang are just not much welcome here. Yes i might have been naive and made assumptions i should not have made. I still think i judged and handled with logic. The information supplied by 'respected' institutions should not be taken for granted. You really need to do all the research stuff yourself and only rely on yourself, do not make any assumptions. Also i think the immigration could have avoided my problem easily if they would be just a little little bit helpful. They really enjoy applying the rules strict and the everlasting thai smile tells me they not have any sympathy when they tell you you have a 'big' problem. Today the ambassy really made a remark that assured me it's not only me to blame, what did they say: "I have to admit we really don't understand all the Thai immigration rules!" Well it might be we Dutch people are just extremely stupid! (unlikely). I really was crazy about this country when i travelled here before but being a tourist; all the smiles seem real. After 9 months i have a much better understanding of what it's really like here. The Thai's prefer to see you leave. Note: I'm not like most of you older fellows who are trying to make a living here and are setting up business and trying jobs Thai's could have done. I'm just one big spending wallet walking around here, something i quess would be welcome. So the 9 month experience here changed my vision greatly about the Thai smile. I feel they 'hate' us. As for all the expats and other farangs here, as a young boy going for a holiday to France i remembered waving at other Dutch cars. It was a 'good' feeling seeing other farangs abroad and people where really nice to each other. Much of that has changed. For Thailand, don't you agree that we can't stand each other. All farang are looking at the other farang like: "What are you doing here? I was here first attitude". My conclusion of my Thai experience: Thai rak Thai and Farang mai rak Farang. I know i sound pretty depressed. It's not all that bad. Thailand i believe can still be very enjoyable, but for other reasons than stated above. I still have a very nice girlfriend here, she's pregnant, accident, but we happy to face the consequenses. Just don't know now how to stay together and raise the child. Sadly it seems we are going to be separated for a while. Well, she's coming next month, we almost got her visa arranged. My god i'm writing a lot, i must be really really frustated!

[verzenden]

The rules are very clear.

You have overstayed your visa and you must return home ASAP. There is nothing anyone can do for you in this case, nor embassy or school.

Pay your overstay and leave now.

Wow another nice respons! I know some of you other farang are just so happy to see another farang having to leave the kingdom! What is it when you see another farang here? Do they confront you in some sort of way with your past? Something you really not want to remembered about? Do you think the other farangs will steal all the woman away from you? Like they did in wherever you came from?

Other farangs suprise me the most in their attitude!

[britmaveric]

verzenden - don't take things personally from your fellow farang or with thai(s). I think in this case the only option is to pay the fine and leave the country. Sure we all can sympathize with your situation, but unfortunately it won't change the fact of your status.

I've always felt nothing, but good will from Thai(s), and treated them back accordingly. As for their immigration policy - well most countries don't make it easy for foreigners - called protecting their own interests.

Chok Dee

[verzenden]

I've always felt nothing, but good will from Thai(s), and treated them back accordingly. As for their immigration policy - well most countries don't make it easy for foreigners - called protecting their own interests.

Chok Dee

'Protecting their own interests' is something i agree with, it definetly ain't better in my country, i think worse. But like i wrote, I'm a student only spending spending spendig. I not try to make a living here so 'expecting' another attitude towards students. Tourist are welcome in my country, as well as foreign students. All the immigrants are off course a different story. Everywhere same same.

[Mobi]

The rules are very clear.

You have overstayed your visa and you must return home ASAP. There is nothing anyone can do for you in this case, nor embassy or school.

Pay your overstay and leave now.

Wow another nice respons! I know some of you other farang are just so happy to see another farang having to leave the kingdom! What is it when you see another farang here? Do they confront you in some sort of way with your past? Something you really not want to remembered about? Do you think the other farangs will steal all the woman away from you? Like they did in wherever you came from?

Other farangs suprise me the most in their attitude!

Take it easy my friend. You're quite right, there are a lot of piss-head farangs out there, but there's also a lot of good decent guys, who, like you, are trying to fight their way throught the mist that is Thai beaurocracy.

I think most of the posters here mean well. Lopburi3 is a total expert on all things related to Thai visas and immigration, and he just tells you the way it is - no emotion, no maybes or perhaps, he just tells you the rules, and if he says you must leave, then that's it's the way it is. I think we're lucky to have him answering all our stupid questions that keep coming up time and time again. For myself, even after 30 years coming and going living in and working in Thailand, I didn't know the difference between a Marriage visa extension and a retirement visa extension, and nearly got kicked out tof the country. How stupid can you get?

You sound at a pretty low ebb, but I'm sure you'll sort it all out and get home safely. I can't advise you not to worry about getting picked up by the police, but it is extremely unlikely if you dress and behave properly and avoid obvious places where you know the police may be active.

Thailand is a great place and there are many good hearted Thais and farangs here - don't let this unfortunate incident colour your feelings too much. We've all had similar problems and one day you will smile about it and put it down to experience.

Good luck and best wishes to you and your young lady. You will obviously be taking something good from Thailand:D

[verzenden]

The rules are very clear.

You have overstayed your visa and you must return home ASAP. There is nothing anyone can do for you in this case, nor embassy or school.

Pay your overstay and leave now.

Wow another nice respons! I know some of you other farang are just so happy to see another farang having to leave the kingdom! What is it when you see another farang here? Do they confront you in some sort of way with your past? Something you really not want to remembered about? Do you think the other farangs will steal all the woman away from you? Like they did in wherever you came from?

Other farangs suprise me the most in their attitude!

Take it easy my friend. You're quite right, there are a lot of piss-head farangs out there, but there's also a lot of good decent guys, who, like you, are trying to fight their way throught the mist that is Thai beaurocracy.

I think most of the posters here mean well. Lopburi3 is a total expert on all things related to Thai visas and immigration, and he just tells you the way it is - no emotion, no maybes or perhaps, he just tells you the rules, and if he says you must leave, then that's it's the way it is. I think we're lucky to have him answering all our stupid questions that keep coming up time and time again. For myself, even after 30 years coming and going living in and working in Thailand, I didn't know the difference between a Marriage visa extension and a retirement visa extension, and nearly got kicked out tof the country. How stupid can you get?

You sound at a pretty low ebb, but I'm sure you'll sort it all out and get home safely. I can't advise you not to worry about getting picked up by the police, but it is extremely unlikely if you dress and behave properly and avoid obvious places where you know the police may be active.

Thailand is a great place and there are many good hearted Thais and farangs here - don't let this unfortunate incident colour your feelings too much. We've all had similar problems and one day you will smile about it and put it down to experience.

Good luck and best wishes to you and your young lady. You will obviously be taking something good from Thailand:D

Thx for your honest reply. I felt Lopburi3 is indeed the total expert. Writing down all my negative feelings and relating to piss-head farangs was not fair. I should be looking tele end enjoy my last changs, instead i've developped a huge headache during the day, and i start to make less and less sense. Maybe just to dissapointed i could not find a satisfying solution in the forum answers.

again thx all,

[Master Chief]

Well people leave their nice and safe environment at their home countries and think that everything well be okay at the end of the day, mai pen rai as it is called here. There is no safety net catching people falling here.

It has nothing personal to your case, but spending one week or two in a local jail awaiting deportation to your country of origin after overstaying is not something to overlook. The embassy or school will not be of any help to pay your court cost and overpriced oneway ticket home.

I know it sucks to be pinpointed in a situation that could have been avoided if the right information was given first.

But now your situation calls for you to go home and come back with a new visa and a experiance ritcher amigo

[gretyl]

...Also i think the immigration could have avoided my problem easily if they would be just a little little bit helpful. They really enjoy applying the rules strict and the everlasting thai smile tells me they not have any sympathy when they tell you you have a 'big' problem. Today the ambassy really made a remark that assured me it's not only me to blame, what did they say: "I have to admit we really don't understand all the Thai immigration rules!" ...

You might find this interesting.

I don't have a scanner, so I'll type exactly as the Memorandum of Comparative Commission is written, except for alignment, indent, line spacing and my own typos.

Here goes:

(Translation)

Memorandum of Comparative Commission

According to Immigrant Act B.E. 2522 (A.D.1979), (Issue No. 6), B.E. 2549 (A.D.2006)

Subject: Empowering the Official to Take the Comparative Action

-----------------------------------------------

As the Memorandum of Comparative Commission according to Immigrant Act B.E. 2522 (A.D.1979), Issue No. 5), B.E. 2541 (A.D.1998), dated April 23, 1998 has assigned the investigating officer and official having the rank from Pol.Sub.Lt. or equivalent to Pol.Sub.Lt. up, as per the Immigrant Act B.E. 2522 (A.D.1979) to take the fine action on behalf of Fine Commission as per Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (A.D. 1979).

To be in compliance with the Ministry, Issue No. 27 B.E. 2546 (A.D.2003), dated June 18, 2003, the Fine Commission deem fit to modify such Memorandum. Therefore, by virtue of provisions in the Article 84 of the Immigrant Act. B.E. 2522 (A.D.1979), it is permitted to cancel the content in the item 18 of the Memorandum of Comparative Commission according to Immigrant Act B.E. 2522 (A.D. 1979), (Issue No. 5), dated April 23, 1998 and use the following content instead.

Item 18. The offence punished as per the Article 81 of the Immigrant Act B.E. 2522 (A.D. 1979), only in case of the alien staying in the Kingdom by authorization expired or withdrawn and the offender in such case surrendering himself/herself or presenting himself/herself as per the summons, it is permitted to have the investigating officer and official to take the fine action as per the number of date that the alien stays in the Kingdom by authorization expired or withdrawn for 500 Baht per day. However, when it is combined, it will not be over 20,000.-Baht.

For this, it is effective from March 15, 2006 onwards.

Given on February 7, 2006

Pol. Gen. --Signed- Commissioner-General

(Kowit Watthana)

--Signed- Supreme Public Prosecutor

(Mr. Phatchara Yutithamdamrong)

Po. Lt. Gen. -Signed- Commissioner of Immigration Bureau

(Suwat Thamrongsrisakul)

Since I've lost posts before, I won't risk losing this. I'm not much inclined to retype the damned thing, so I'm replying without comment, just sending this off.

[verzenden]

Hi,

Well, i have to admit my english ain't that good, please help me intrepet this difficult chunk of text.

The way i understand it is as follows: If i go to a border or airport and pay the 20k i won't have the problem, if they catch me first , i've got the problem. Well that's what i make up of it. Is this correct? This i knew already or does it mean anuthing else? If so, could you tell me in short simple english?

thx. i copy pasted it already i case it gets lost.

[jdinasia]

yes ... hit a border and pay your fine ... best (safest way) is to do it at the Airport

[Maestro]

To be in compliance with the Ministry, Issue No. 27 B.E. 2546 (A.D.2003), dated June 18, 2003, the Fine Commission deem fit to modify such Memorandum. Therefore, by virtue of provisions in the Article 84 of the Immigrant Act. B.E. 2522 (A.D.1979), it is permitted to cancel the content in the item 18 of the Memorandum of Comparative Commission according to Immigrant Act B.E. 2522 (A.D. 1979), (Issue No. 5), dated April 23, 1998 and use the following content instead.

So that’s how it works: the law specifies the maximum penalty (imprisonment not exceeding two years or a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht or

both), The Ministry issues a regulation, the Fine Commission works out a fine per day of overstay.

Neat, really, as otherwise every single case of overstay would have to go to court to determine the penalty based on the circumstances of each case.

Interesting – and good, I guess – to see that the maximum two years’ imprisonment is not also prorated per day or week of overstay.

Now we see why the maximum fine was not increased: it would need a change of law, which is not as simple as changing a Memorandum.

If we compare that increase of 150% from – apparently – 1998 to 2006 with the inflation rate in Thailand, with the daily minimum wage for Bangkok, and with the exchange rate for the dollar, how does it look? Or was the 200 Baht per day in force already since much earlier?

--------------

Maestro

[Master Chief]

That is what we have been trying to explain in short text, pay the fine at the airport on the way out from Thailand and then return with a smile, how short must clear this matter amigo

Sitting around and trying to wait out the problem will lead to greater problems

Good luck

[verzenden]

Have not made up my mind yet. I'm assured there's no way avoiding the fine, i'll get ovet that. I still consider a jetline visarun going to Malasia or any other short distance destinantion, depends on price and flight availability, this instead of flying back home staight away. Question: "I'll get a 30 day tourist visa on return i assume?" I just commited myself to finish this year in uni and feel it's such a shame leaving the kingdom without accomplishing my goal.

[verzenden]

That is what we have been trying to explain in short text, pay the fine at the airport on the way out from Thailand and then return with a smile, how short must clear this matter amigo

Sitting around and trying to wait out the problem will lead to greater problems

Good luck

Kow jaai kow jaai. As i said i did not really understand the complicated chunk of english text. It might have been a creative solution or a loophole or whatever. That why i asked for reassurance.

[Master Chief]

If your original student visa has expired you may only be in thailand as a turist, legally you cannot make further studies

[rishi]

Question: "I'll get a 30 day tourist visa on return i assume?" I just commited myself to finish this year in uni and feel it's such a shame leaving the kingdom without accomplishing my goal.

Well, as far as I've gathered from your description of your situation, there shouldn't be any problem for you in getting a new non-im "ED" visa, provided you take care to get the proper paperworks from uni to support your application ... And there doesn't seem to be any problem in getting your new entry stamp extended - provided it is done the prescribed manner. Don't thrust anyone will do it properly, unless you (maybe daily) check up on progress...

[verzenden]

If your original student visa has expired you may only be in thailand as a turist, legally you cannot make further studies

I will go to the airport tomorrow morning and try to catch any avaible flight to wherever it goes. I really want to go in the airplane with my GF next month. As you might understand she's very excited for her first long distance flight going to europe next month. Thx for all your replies and support. At least i will be following this forum for another month!

Could do that in Holland as well of course but reading the forum while not here just does not feel right.

Guess they won't make much of a problem finishing my study 'not legally'? Or am i making the wrong assumptions again?

[Maestro]

please help me intrepet this difficult chunk of text.

It is, indeed, rather complicated legal language.

The part that makes a difference is in “and the offender in such case surrendering himself/herself”. This means that if an overstayer goes to an immigration office or to the immigration desk at the airport and reports his overstay, the matter is dealt simply with a fine. When he pays the fine at an immigration office, he will usually be required to leave the country within 24 or 48 hours.

If, on the other hand, the overstayer is caught by the police, the matter goes to court (unless an immediate amicable arrangement is made with the arresting police officer to drop the case)

If you go to your immigration office to pay the fine, it will be useful if you can show a ticket for an outbound flight leaving within 24 hours. In other words, arrange your flight first, as otherwise you might be forced to buy an excessively expensive ticket if you have to leave the country at a moment’s notice.

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Maestro