Berry pickers from Thailand refuse to leave Finland

[JoeThePoster]

The Thai pickers were not employed by the company and therefore were not getting paid to do the work. Instead they were being paid for the berries they pick. This is tax-free income in Finland.

The Thai pickers were complaining that they were not taken good care and the locations where they were picking berries were not good enough for them to make a good money. They have also taken loans in Thailand with 5%/month interest rate. This is becoming an burden.

Then very leftist (ex communist party) member of parliament and few others who started to say that bringing Thais to do the work is almost like human trafficking.

After this the group of Thais stopped to work and the company who was managing the operation got them tickets back home. Thais refused after being told by the 'supporters' not to. It's all big mess now.

Finns consider all people equal and have low tolerance of companies who are exploiting low level workers. On other countries the Thais would have already been kicked out already.

These are the things I picked up from Finnish medias. I guess the truth of all of this will come out someday.. and Finland taxpayers will probably pay the show.

Interesting post - thank you.

I wonder what would happen to Finnish or indeed any other nationalities in similar situations in Thailand.

Would Thailand respect their Human Rights and dignity?

One word - Burmese.

[tfbpa]

Oh, many years ago I also picked fruit which was paid by the basket/kg. It is perfectly normal that in this arrangement you make less money that with an hourly wage if you work in a normal speed. If you work harder/faster, then you can make a lot of money, lots more than an hourly wage.

Pick by KG/basket = work hard = earn a lot more money than hourly wage

Pick by KG/basket = work normal = earn less than normal hourly wage

Pick by KG/basket = work slow = earn a lot less than hourly wage

Basic economics.

<edit>

Oh, when I was working in the fields there were also some people complaining that their area was not good. We switched and still I made a lot more money then they did, although admittedly I did make less than in the previous field, but that kind of luck has a way of sorting itself out over an extended period of time, so those kind of excuses are mostly just that, excuses.

</edit>

Edited September 16, 2013 by tfbpa

[klauskunkel]

They not finnished yet

[wtk]

I read from another finnish news paper that the company "employed" 350 thai berry pickers. This group of 50 created the only problems and 25 of them decided to not go back to Thailand yet, partly due to some finnish politicians coming to their help, I'm sure.

It's hard to know the whole story even after reading all these articles

[harrycallahan]

In Australia they justify bringing immigrants by saying locals are too lazy. They don't mention the below usual minimum wage the per container pay structure ends up paying, and the ad-hoc work irregular work ("when the fruit is ripe"), living out of tents and barns-come-guesthouses, the fact that they never tried to employ locals.

[Globeman]

Just as said before u can take the people out of the village, but u can not take the village out of them.

What point are you trying to make here? That the ignorant backward-ass farmers must be at fault here somehow?

Please share the details of the situation in Finland that will enable us all to come to such a solid judgment.

[atyclb]

"The CEO said the Thai workers were in Finland on berry picking visas, and as they now refused to pick berries, his company was obliged to help get them back home."

Easy, next time get them "nose picking visas" as they seem eager and adept at that.

[louse1953]

I'll jump to conclusions. Finland is a lot different than Thailand. Issues, and even foreign worker rights are considered seriously. In Thailand worker rights for Thais are dubious, and non-existent for farang or other SE Asians.

Here's my spin, and perhaps it's totally out of left field, but here goes: They heard of one or more Thai ladies who got married to Finns (but that's beside the point). They see how better the standard of living, and wages are there. They see opportunities (and pretty blond gals) that they don't see in Issan. I bet one or more are shooting for asylum, or at least to be able to get the process started to settle there. Scandinavians are known for being open to 'disadvantaged.' White gals are attracted to brown guys (and vice versa). Connect the dots.

Here's a parallel perspective: I knew a Burmese guy, 30-something, who just showed up at a small town in northern California. He didn't leave. Technically, he was illegal, but so what? More than a few local women (divorcees, etc) were attracted to him. He had pick of the litter. He purportedly gave massages for $60/hour, but he didn't even need to make money, as there were women clamoring to take care of him. OK, an isolated incident perhaps, but not far-fetched if you're a student of human quirky behavior. I've known other scenarios like that, perhaps you have too.

You should write a book boomer,fiction of course.

[Globeman]

The Thai pickers were not employed by the company and therefore were not getting paid to do the work. Instead they were being paid for the berries they pick. This is tax-free income in Finland.

The Thai pickers were complaining that they were not taken good care and the locations where they were picking berries were not good enough for them to make a good money. They have also taken loans in Thailand with 5%/month interest rate. This is becoming an burden.

Then very leftist (ex communist party) member of parliament and few others who started to say that bringing Thais to do the work is almost like human trafficking.

After this the group of Thais stopped to work and the company who was managing the operation got them tickets back home. Thais refused after being told by the 'supporters' not to. It's all big mess now.

Finns consider all people equal and have low tolerance of companies who are exploiting low level workers. On other countries the Thais would have already been kicked out already.

These are the things I picked up from Finnish medias. I guess the truth of all of this will come out someday.. and Finland taxpayers will probably pay the show.

Interesting post - thank you.

I wonder what would happen to Finnish or indeed any other nationalities in similar situations in Thailand.

Would Thailand respect their Human Rights and dignity?

No, they might not... but are these really the same people who set the policies of treating foreign labourers like garbage? Are these arrogant high ranking policemen or Chinese-Thai politicians and civil servants? Farm labourers here, Thai or foreign also get treated like rubbish by those same people.... so are you advocating that western countries mistreat the labourers the same way their oppressors mistreat us - simply because they are Thai? Are you suggesting that the world drop its standards to the lowest common denominator? What are you getting at, if anything?

[johnlandy]

Finland is a nice country. A regular worker has a much higher standard of living than in Thailand so quite obvious that many would not like to return.

There seems to be more to it than that. Their employer must have tried to short them on something, so they started a protest, and now they're being shifted back home as their visas are terminated. Standard business tactic: no need to pay the last couple months of wages for migrant workers, as they'll be kicked out of the country at the end of their visa anyway and can't come back to pester you.

No sympathy for them, foreigners get screwed every day in Thailand (I had a good day today, perhaps that was because I didn't)

Edited September 16, 2013 by johnlandy

[Globeman]

Finland is a nice country. A regular worker has a much higher standard of living than in Thailand so quite obvious that many would not like to return.

There seems to be more to it than that. Their employer must have tried to short them on something, so they started a protest, and now they're being shifted back home as their visas are terminated. Standard business tactic: no need to pay the last couple months of wages for migrant workers, as they'll be kicked out of the country at the end of their visa anyway and can't come back to pester you.

No sympathy for them, foreigners get screwed every day in Thailand (I had a good day today, perhaps that was because I didn't)

So if foreigners get screwed every day in Thailand, Thais should get screwed wherever they go to work abroad? No sympathy, no rule of law, no humanity... just getting even? Good thinking. Shame you aren't running the world, pal - it would be a lovely place under your watch.

[SOTIRIOS]

'human rights' 'dignity'...........can we have some of that......???

(.....they probably made 10-20x what they make in Thailand......and it's still not enough...)

[thhMan]

Not much different to living in Thailand.

Work finises then its GTFO of the country as you are no longer wanted.

At least they didnt have the 4 Finish people to 1 Thai rule imposed while they where there...

[fxe1200]

'human rights' 'dignity'...........can we have some of that......???

(.....they probably made 10-20x what they make in Thailand......and it's still not enough...)

...how much did they have to pay up front to do the job? How much are they charged for their flights forth and back? Questions not being answered yet.

[boomerangutang]

I know 3 Thai women that work close to my business, that have overstayed their visas by two years.

Same story every year without fail, thai people go to pick berry in some Nordic country,

thai people get cheated, big story big noise, lot of publicity, and the next year same

story all over again, the perpetual hard luck story and as long as there are berries

to pick, thai people will be cheated.

If you say to a Thai, "You could make as much as $xxx per month", then they'll have that number branded in their brain.

If, for whatever reason, they make less than $xxx, then they feel shorted. Plus, they've probably went an got loans within minutes of hearing that magic number.

They're also quickly discovering things like 'worker rights' and the 'sympathy factor' (that Scandinavians have toward SE Asians, Arabs, Africans) .....and milking it for all they can.

[monkeycountry]

How about a road block and some demands. Would love to see how Finland tackles that :-)

[Globeman]

I know 3 Thai women that work close to my business, that have overstayed their visas by two years.

Same story every year without fail, thai people go to pick berry in some Nordic country,

thai people get cheated, big story big noise, lot of publicity, and the next year same

story all over again, the perpetual hard luck story and as long as there are berries

to pick, thai people will be cheated.

If you say to a Thai, "You could make as much as $xxx per month", then they'll have that number branded in their brain.

If, for whatever reason, they make less than $xxx, then they feel shorted. Plus, they've probably went an got loans within minutes of hearing that magic number.

They're also quickly discovering things like 'worker rights' and the 'sympathy factor' (that Scandinavians have toward SE Asians, Arabs, Africans) .....and milking it for all they can.

Is there any evidence to support your hypothesis, or are you just speaking from your heart?

[giggles]

In Australia they justify bringing immigrants by saying locals are too lazy. They don't mention the below usual minimum wage the per container pay structure ends up paying, and the ad-hoc work irregular work ("when the fruit is ripe"), living out of tents and barns-come-guesthouses, the fact that they never tried to employ locals.

same the UK ,they hire gangs of workers from eastern europe on pittance wages direct and dont even offer jobs to UK workers ,farmers are greedy and guilty .

[jbrain]

In Australia they justify bringing immigrants by saying locals are too lazy. They don't mention the below usual minimum wage the per container pay structure ends up paying, and the ad-hoc work irregular work ("when the fruit is ripe"), living out of tents and barns-come-guesthouses, the fact that they never tried to employ locals.

You're right they should pay them double triple wages and put them in 5 star hotels..................then you can complain the berry's are too expensive

[fabianfred]

they dont want to go back a 3rd world country they know where theyre better off 

Prejudice..... Regarding one country as superior to another.... Cause of all the trouble in the world...

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[hellodolly]

All those years of nose picking has paid off in a useful career.

I hope they get their visa stuff sorted out and return safely to Thailand.

Where did you read that they were having trouble getting visa's back to Thailand.

Why does a Thai need a visa to get into Thailand?

Also does any one know how many berry pickers there are in Finland. This article says there was only 25 protestors.

It would be interesting to know the facts. The company says they paid them by the amount picked and doing it that way the pickers did not have to pay tax on money earned.

Was this a good thing or a bad thing. I would think if you were lazy it would not be good and if you were a hard worker it would be really good.

[hellodolly]

The Thai pickers were not employed by the company and therefore were not getting paid to do the work. Instead they were being paid for the berries they pick. This is tax-free income in Finland.

The Thai pickers were complaining that they were not taken good care and the locations where they were picking berries were not good enough for them to make a good money. They have also taken loans in Thailand with 5%/month interest rate. This is becoming an burden.

Then very leftist (ex communist party) member of parliament and few others who started to say that bringing Thais to do the work is almost like human trafficking.

After this the group of Thais stopped to work and the company who was managing the operation got them tickets back home. Thais refused after being told by the 'supporters' not to. It's all big mess now.

Finns consider all people equal and have low tolerance of companies who are exploiting low level workers. On other countries the Thais would have already been kicked out already.

These are the things I picked up from Finnish medias. I guess the truth of all of this will come out someday.. and Finland taxpayers will probably pay the show.

I really don't think we are qualified to know the truth here. There is only 25 protestors and for all we know there are 1,000 berry pickers there. Could be that there are 975 happy pickers.

I would be interested in hearing how much they were told they would make and was it a Thai company that lined it all up for them at a price for their services and was it a reasonable price.

This is a field where workers have been scammed by Thai recruiters and in other cases the business that they work for has abused them.

One wonders (at least I do) how many of these situations would arise if the Thais involved had been given a decent education.

[hellodolly]

For the people who are too lazy to read the article, here it is.

If you state the source, which is here http://yle.fi/uutiset/thai_berry_pickers_refuse_to_leave_finland/6831765, it is perfectly fine to quote original articles, as soooo many times people here don't read them and just comment away without knowing the full story.

<QUOTE FROM ORIGINAL ARTICLE>

A press release issued in the name of the berry pickers in Central Finland says the group will not leave on Saturday, despite the change of date to their return tickets.

In the release, the berry pickers claim that Ber-Ex is trying to put pressure on them as well as denying them their legal rights and compensations. The group also says that actions by the company have violated their human dignity.

Previously the berry pickers expressed outrage over not being able to pick enough berries to earn the sums they were apparently previously promised. The group staying in the Central Finnish locale of Suolahti were concerned they would be unable to pay their debts over travel expenses to Ber-Ex.

The berry pickers and their support group organized a group discussion on Saturday in Suolahti.

Berry company CEO responds

Ber-Ex CEO Kari Jansa has been taken aback by the berry pickers claims about his companys actions.

According to Jansa, the company was obliged to move forward the berry pickers return flights, as they were in infringement of visa legislation. The CEO said the Thai workers were in Finland on berry picking visas, and as they now refused to pick berries, his company was obliged to help get them back home.

Jansa also rejected calls to pay set salaries to the berry pickers. He says that they get paid for the kilos of berries picked, and this is tax-free income. Salaries would bring in taxation, lowering the incomes of many berry pickers, Jansa argues.

The CEO claims that the vocal group of berry pickers have performed poorly in their work, as other berry pickers have brought in considerable yields from the same areas that the group claims is devoid of the forest fruit.

This leads Jansa to believe that some of the berry pickers intentionally came to Finland looking for some kind of guaranteed salary.

</QUOTE FROM ORIGINAL ARTICLE>

You mean taken out of context from the original article.

Here is the opening headline.

"BANGKOK: -- 25 berry pickers from Thailand refused to board their flight back home this weekend, Finnish Yle reported."

Any particular reason you chose to neglect that there was only 25 pickers protesting?

Edited September 16, 2013 by hellodolly

[rosst]

Agree with the last poster, try that sh7t in Thailand and see how you go, the UN and all the crap Australia have signed up to only works one way.

[JO1973]

Finland is a nice country. A regular worker has a much higher standard of living than in Thailand so quite obvious that many would not like to return.

There seems to be more to it than that. Their employer must have tried to short them on something, so they started a protest, and now they're being shifted back home as their visas are terminated. Standard business tactic: no need to pay the last couple months of wages for migrant workers, as they'll be kicked out of the country at the end of their visa anyway and can't come back to pester you.

You have no idea what the situation is to make such a blatant accusation such as this. The Thais could have been engaging in wrongdoing which is exactly why this situation happened.

[anotheruser]

Finland is a nice country. A regular worker has a much higher standard of living than in Thailand so quite obvious that many would not like to return.

There seems to be more to it than that. Their employer must have tried to short them on something, so they started a protest, and now they're being shifted back home as their visas are terminated. Standard business tactic: no need to pay the last couple months of wages for migrant workers, as they'll be kicked out of the country at the end of their visa anyway and can't come back to pester you.

This of course would never happen in Thailand. Because if all the Farang wronged through corruption in Thailand ever stood up... they would be kicked out. Those Thais are lucky they are afforded rights that don't exist for most over here.

[monkeycountry]

I don't know the details of this case, but have a feeling that the lack of Thainess outside Thailand has the potential to cause problems for especially poor and/or uneducated Thais when travelling abroad :-)

[Guest]

I really don't think we are qualified to know the truth here. There is only 25 protestors and for all we know there are 1,000 berry pickers there. Could be that there are 975 happy pickers.

I would be interested in hearing how much they were told they would make and was it a Thai company that lined it all up for them at a price for their services and was it a reasonable price.

This is a field where workers have been scammed by Thai recruiters and in other cases the business that they work for has abused them.

One wonders (at least I do) how many of these situations would arise if the Thais involved had been given a decent education.

I am a Finn and have been reading articles from different sources and political interest groups there of the incident for the past times. Still I'm quite unaware of the real situation. This case however has not been on top of my interest list, even if both countries involved have been my homes.

Finland have great social security. Something which can be both great thing as letting people to try their wings.. as well as bad thing to let others just to lay down and do nothing.

The 'support group' which is 'helping' the Thai workers are from the freeloaders. They might have beautiful ideas, but which contradicts the realms of life.

At this point the Thai workers were introduced to the political game, which was played by the very leftists people. By very leftist I really mean that. I'm likely considered being on the right side in Finland, which would be very leftist in the USA for example. Different cultures have different ideologies.

There has been some talk about the incident in the general media in Finland, but surprising little. This could mean couple of things. One being that Finnish media does not really know what to make of this situation as it's something which has not really be seen before. They wish to get their facts before publishing the news.

The other is that the few Thai workers are really troublemakers and the media knows this. The best way to silence the trolls is simply to ignore them. There is no need to make a fuzz out of nothing. That would just bring more attention to the case.

I really don't know which is the case. It's probably combination of both.

My understanding the situation is that the workers were told that they can make fortunes by going to Finland. That has been the case in the past. They had pay the tickets in advance, which was a lot of money. For this they borrowed money from Thai loan sharks with huge interest rates.

Previous years there has been mostly good and hardworking people who have gone to the Nordic to pick the berries. Now, after some years, there has been also other kind of people who have been interested to get there.. to get a good money as they have learned. Those new kind of workers might have not considered that to make good money requires hard work.

But the case being in Finland, I'm quite sure it will be investigated quite well in the future. We Finns are quite 'blue eyed' people who like to trust the people we meet. That's how be mingle together. That works well, until someone misuses the trust. Then we'll become drunken Russians.. and everybody knows that's not good news.

[anotheruser]

Same story every year without fail, thai people go to pick berry in some Nordic country,

thai people get cheated, big story big noise, lot of publicity, and the next year same

story all over again, the perpetual hard luck story and as long as there are berries

to pick, thai people will be cheated.

God forbid somebody cheats the Thais, they must really feel stupid.

[itchybum]

I don't know the details of this case, but have a feeling that the lack of Thainess outside Thailand has the potential to cause problems for especially poor and/or uneducated Thais when travelling abroad :-)

You mean how the real world works ?

I think the Finns are about to release a statement something along the lines of bad spirits infecting the berries this year.

.

Edited September 16, 2013 by itchybum