Pheu Thai: Constitution amendment is not to abolish democracy

[timewilltell]

Maybe there are some changes needed to the constitution and there are definitely changes needed to the laws that are out of line with the constitution - equal treatment of women for a start. However electing the senate en masse is a terrible mistake. The senate is there to bring balance to the excesses of the lower house. I don't think they are a very clever lot of people as they are elected by being advertised and through spouting a load of lies and half truths to fool an ignorant and ill educated public. There are no academic qualifications required. You could be a complete and utter ignoramus and still get elected

The senate being partially appointed and made up of people who have proven themselves to be intelligent, skilled or have business acumen. These people have a hope of seeing through most of the nonsense coming from the lower house and pare put the worst of what is presented. It is a balancing forum and in any case can only slow things down and submit back to the lower house for reconsideration once the failings of each proposal have been examined and remedies or suggestions put forward.

Electing anyone to the senate and having that lot do the same job will simply not work as it will just be a mirror of the lower house. Democracy is not voting in a bunch of lying representatives to do willy nilly unchecked. It is about the people being able to choose who represents them to formulate policies not rape the systems serving the country within a very short time.

The justice system needs complete overhaul pre ASEAN. It is weak, slow, horribly expensive and has no mechanism for recovery of costs. Stenographers and a procedure that does not allow lawyers to dictate when subsequent hearings will be heard according to their diary - that should be laid down by the court - it is not a place of convenience for lawyers at the expense of the parties.

[hellodolly]

The senate boasts a compliment of experienced professionals. Elections would effectively eliminate their valuable expertise from the political process. The appointed senators are economists, scientists, businessmen, judges, lawyers, professors, engineers, social workers, doctors, public servants and consumer advocates. Many would be unwilling to campaign and would have their seats filled by PT puppets funded with PTP money. Dont forget PT has access to more money than the DEM party does (tax money). Money wins elections. The Senate would effectively become a mirror image of the PTP. People argue it was DEM inclined before. I don't agree. I believe it was justice inclined, competent inclined and democratically inclined. For arguments sake lets pretend it was DEM inclined. They agree with elections thus are more than happy for the senate to have the DEMS removed and replaced with PTP sympathizers. That is an irrational and undemocratic argument. PT supporters are a confused lot. Some supporters are Canadians that argue that an appointed senate is undemocratic yet an appointed senate has served Canadians for 140 years and have done a fine job of it. Is this why they live in Thailand, because they disagree with a functioning democracy like Canada yet hate the fact their senate are all elected into their positions. I doubt it.

This PT push is a veiled return to a dictatorship by an antagonist PT with an already dubious claim to the voice of the electorate.

So after highlighting the above would you believe what the confused guys say?

I think your views are very one sided that seems to be the norm for this forum. Very Yellow shirt.

You should concentrate on the process of Democracy that, here in Thailand though not perfect, is actually not bad. In two general elections the present government has been OVERWHELMINGLY returned to power. Accept it. Get used to it. Because you are foreign does not automatically give you the right to feel superior.

It is a matter of perception.

I chose to not see 48% as OVERWHELMINGLY

In fact I see it as a typical statement from a person with a Thai education.

[hellodolly]

Com'on you guys. Whoever you are supporting, please make known whoever is in power will try every means to change things to stay in power. Be it DEM,PTP etc.... Grow up guys and stop making unrealistic comments.

Beg to disagree. The Democrats did not make any attempt to rewrite the constitution so that they could turn Thailand into a dictatorship. Stick around and watch this arrogant lot. Would not surprise me if they didn't try to write into the constitution it was OK to buy votes.

[puck2]

1. The best written constitution is nothing else but a loo paper if it's articles aren't implemented in reality. Examples? All people are equal ... but there are people above the law. There are and will be many examples here in Thailand in spite of a "democratic" constitution.

2. If the ruling party/majority can change the constitution only by a simple majority - like some men change their mia noi - then the constitution can be treated like a whore. There is no political stability, there is no constant reliability. To change the constitution in Germany you need a qualified majority in Bundestag and Bundesrat what is (not exactly) like Lower and Upper House or House of Representatvives and Senat, you name it.

The qualified majority means two thirds of each house. This would be a guarantee that the constitution is not kicked like a football.

[djjamie]

The senate boasts a compliment of experienced professionals. Elections would effectively eliminate their valuable expertise from the political process. The appointed senators are economists, scientists, businessmen, judges, lawyers, professors, engineers, social workers, doctors, public servants and consumer advocates. Many would be unwilling to campaign and would have their seats filled by PT puppets funded with PTP money. Don’t forget PT has access to more money than the DEM party does (tax money). Money wins elections. The Senate would effectively become a mirror image of the PTP. People argue it was DEM inclined before. I don't agree. I believe it was justice inclined, competent inclined and democratically inclined. For arguments sake lets pretend it was DEM inclined. They agree with elections thus are more than happy for the senate to have the DEMS removed and replaced with PTP sympathizers. That is an irrational and undemocratic argument. PT supporters are a confused lot. Some supporters are Canadians that argue that an appointed senate is undemocratic yet an appointed senate has served Canadians for 140 years and have done a fine job of it. Is this why they live in Thailand, because they disagree with a functioning democracy like Canada yet hate the fact their senate are all elected into their positions. I doubt it.

This PT push is a veiled return to a dictatorship by an antagonist PT with an already dubious claim to the voice of the electorate.

So after highlighting the above would you believe what the confused guys say?

I think your views are very one sided that seems to be the norm for this forum. Very Yellow shirt.

You should concentrate on the process of Democracy that, here in Thailand though not perfect, is actually not bad. In two general elections the present government has been OVERWHELMINGLY returned to power. Accept it. Get used to it. Because you are foreign does not automatically give you the right to feel superior.

Get used to it? What the PTP? I have. No problem for me. I stated facts. Fact 1 - Senate will be mirror image of the PTP. Fact 2 - Supporters hate the current system because it is full of DEMS. If elected it would be full of PTP. They have no qualms with that yet preach democracy. Fact 3 - Canada does have an appointed senate. Works well.

Your reply was a point in case of what I mean about confused guys. You can't even read my comment and what it meant without getting confused. Thanks for highlighting my statement.

[djjamie]

The senate boasts a compliment of experienced professionals. Elections would effectively eliminate their valuable expertise from the political process. The appointed senators are economists, scientists, businessmen, judges, lawyers, professors, engineers, social workers, doctors, public servants and consumer advocates. Many would be unwilling to campaign and would have their seats filled by PT puppets funded with PTP money. Don’t forget PT has access to more money than the DEM party does (tax money). Money wins elections. The Senate would effectively become a mirror image of the PTP. People argue it was DEM inclined before. I don't agree. I believe it was justice inclined, competent inclined and democratically inclined. For arguments sake lets pretend it was DEM inclined. They agree with elections thus are more than happy for the senate to have the DEMS removed and replaced with PTP sympathizers. That is an irrational and undemocratic argument. PT supporters are a confused lot. Some supporters are Canadians that argue that an appointed senate is undemocratic yet an appointed senate has served Canadians for 140 years and have done a fine job of it. Is this why they live in Thailand, because they disagree with a functioning democracy like Canada yet hate the fact their senate are all elected into their positions. I doubt it.

This PT push is a veiled return to a dictatorship by an antagonist PT with an already dubious claim to the voice of the electorate.

So after highlighting the above would you believe what the confused guys say?

I think your views are very one sided that seems to be the norm for this forum. Very Yellow shirt.

You should concentrate on the process of Democracy that, here in Thailand though not perfect, is actually not bad. In two general elections the present government has been OVERWHELMINGLY returned to power. Accept it. Get used to it. Because you are foreign does not automatically give you the right to feel superior.

Get used to it? What the PTP? I have. No problem for me. I stated facts. Fact 1 - Senate will be mirror image of the PTP. Fact 2 - Supporters hate the current system because it is full of DEMS. If elected it would be full of PTP. They have no qualms with that yet preach democracy. Fact 3 - Canada does have an appointed senate. Works well.

Your reply was a point in case of what I mean about confused guys. You can't even read my comment and what it meant without getting confused. Thanks for highlighting my statement.

[djjamie]

The senate boasts a compliment of experienced professionals. Elections would effectively eliminate their valuable expertise from the political process. The appointed senators are economists, scientists, businessmen, judges, lawyers, professors, engineers, social workers, doctors, public servants and consumer advocates. Many would be unwilling to campaign and would have their seats filled by PT puppets funded with PTP money. Don’t forget PT has access to more money than the DEM party does (tax money). Money wins elections. The Senate would effectively become a mirror image of the PTP. People argue it was DEM inclined before. I don't agree. I believe it was justice inclined, competent inclined and democratically inclined. For arguments sake lets pretend it was DEM inclined. They agree with elections thus are more than happy for the senate to have the DEMS removed and replaced with PTP sympathizers. That is an irrational and undemocratic argument. PT supporters are a confused lot. Some supporters are Canadians that argue that an appointed senate is undemocratic yet an appointed senate has served Canadians for 140 years and have done a fine job of it. Is this why they live in Thailand, because they disagree with a functioning democracy like Canada yet hate the fact their senate are all elected into their positions. I doubt it.

This PT push is a veiled return to a dictatorship by an antagonist PT with an already dubious claim to the voice of the electorate.

So after highlighting the above would you believe what the confused guys say?

I think your views are very one sided that seems to be the norm for this forum. Very Yellow shirt.

You should concentrate on the process of Democracy that, here in Thailand though not perfect, is actually not bad. In two general elections the present government has been OVERWHELMINGLY returned to power. Accept it. Get used to it. Because you are foreign does not automatically give you the right to feel superior.

Get used to it? What the PTP? I have. No problem for me. I stated facts. Fact 1 - Senate will be mirror image of the PTP. Fact 2 - Supporters hate the current system because it is full of DEMS. If elected it would be full of PTP. They have no qualms with that yet preach democracy. Fact 3 - Canada does have an appointed senate. Works well.

Your reply was a point in case of what I mean about confused guys. You can't even read my comment and what it meant without getting confused. Thanks for highlighting my statement.