46.5 mln Americans poor - census

[HerbalEd]

What does a stock market recovery have to do with it?

As the article indicates, not very much.

[NeverSure]

Actually they are better off they say a family who earns $30,00 a year. those under the provity level income get free food, housing, medical care, education assistance plus other govt handouts.

While your point may be true to a lesser extent in some cases, your are groosly exaggerating otherwise. I don't know of anyone getting "free" housing beyond homeless shelters. Education assistance? All elementary and high schools are free, although there are obviously other costs.

Perhaps you haven't heard of HUD for housing assistance.

http://www.google.com/#q=hud+housing+assistance

[FiftyTwo]

Just goes to show not all farangs are rich as some Thai girls seem to think.

$23,400 (700,000bht)pa seems like a good wage to me.

Many Thai girls would like to have a wage like that

[allucero]

Most of these so called poor don't know what poor is!! They have food on there table even if they have no money and now free medical even before the Obama-Care whet into effect. Most people in California are on disability and receiving government aid. It does not stop there. Don't ever call an American poor.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed. This is not about the poverty levels in the UK/Europe, that would be another topic altogether.

[expattom]

I'll repeat, some of our members need to understand that food stamps and welfare are not give aways. America is poor and getting poorer. There are no real jobs, just part time and flipping burgers for starvation wages. The majority of recipients are white, not black. I'm not trolling, off topic and there never was and is no profanity in the following article for your edification so don't censor me again.

Mon Sep 16, 2013 at 10:04 AM PDT

If 80% of us are in or near poverty then THERE IS NO MIDDLE CLASS.

by MinistryOfTruth

You can't tell me there is a middle if 4/5ths of us are almost poor.

How can their be a middle when 80% of Americans are poor or will be poor at some point in the future.

If we are all poor or near poor then poor is the new middle.

There is a "working class" and the wealthy, that is it. The middle class is DEAD. And everyone, specifically Democrats, need to stop pretending otherwise.

In High School Econ 101 we were taught that there are poor people and working poor people. Working poor people have jobs but are still poor. If we are to cling to the notion of a mythical middle than we must admit that working poor IS the new middle class, and that means there IS no middle class because you are still fracking (censored) poor.

So we can lie to ourselves and pretend that there is a middle class in America, but there isn't. If you are working and still struggling you are not middle class, you are working poor, and by clinging to a dead phrase like "middle" we dismiss and excuse all of those poor people who used to be middle class but got left behind by decades of stagnant wages, rising costs of living and the vast disparity between the growth of the wealth of the super rich compared to everybody else. If you are in debt up to your eyeballs you are not middle class, some one owns you through your debt. If you work and still are constantly broke you are not middle class and you are being kept poor on purpose because how else can they get you to go into debt in the first place?

So STOP trying to explain what the middle class is. It doesn't exist anymore. We live in a three income society, the laughable McDonald's/Visa budget even admits as much, you need TWO incomes just to be able to afford freezing to death during the winter because you have no money for heat or those sicknesses humans get from time to time, and even if you are married or share housing with someone neither of you can afford to lose work for a month or BAM back into poverty you go, so let's stop pretending there is a middle anymore.

If 80% of us are going to be in poverty or near it in our lifetimes then there is no middle class, there are poor people and rich people.

Whenever we talk about the middle class we are speaking of a thing that no longer exists. Not when 4/5ths of us are scrapping near poverty. Republicans only speak of the poor in disdain but Democrats treat the word "Poor' as if it were some four lettered swear not to be uttered in public, but the reality is simple, there is no middle class, it died a decade ago and was buried when Wall Street crashed the economy 4 years ago.

When we talk about raising the minimum wage we must remember that people who oppose raising the minimum wage are AGAINST trickle down, they are admitting it doesn't work because they will not allow it to do so. I say $10 an hour is NOT enough, how about double the current minimum wage for all workers including workers who earn tips and peg the growth of the minimum wage to the growth rate of Fortune 500 total executive compensation.

By pretending that poverty does not exist and lumping everyone in a mythical middle we are deluding ourselves from the real crisis facing America, because a nation where 80% of the people are at or near poverty is a nation that is one bad month away from total disaster.

And here are Republicans fighting to help starve Americans by denying them food assistance to supplement their suppressed wages. Let me ask those conservatives this, what happens when you drive people into poverty with low wages and starve them by rescinding food assistance? What alternative do you give those people? Tax cuts? More guns? But what about those Democrats who are afraid to seem too friendly to the poor by defending the working class instead of this mythical specter of the Ghost of Middle Class past?

Income inequality is not a problem, it is THE problem. We are all going broke and falling into poverty BECAUSE the wealthiest among us have decided that starving us and suppressing our wages is better for their profit line. At the beginning of the collapse Senator John McCain said "The fundamentals of our economy are strong."

If 4/5ths of us are going to be poor in our lifetime I would suggest that the fundamentals of our economy are fracked (censored) up and bullpoop (censored).

And someone should, you know, do something about that.

If 80% of us are poor then the middle is poor.

Taxes are not the problem. Government spending too much is NOT the problem. Are wages are too fracking (censored) low. That is the problem. Ignoring it won't make it go away. Part of the reason Bill DiBlasio won in NYC was due to the fact that he is telling the truth, the rich are richer than ever at a time when being poor is becoming the new middle BECAUSE the rich have invented a plutonomy for themselves at the expense of the rest of us. The sooner we deal with that the better, but first we must admit there is a problem. Coddling the rich is strangling the rest of us. Pretending otherwise is bullpoop (censored).

95% of the wealth is going to the wealthiest 1%. That isn't an economy, it's a casino with rigged slot machines. When the rich get 96% where will that other 1% of profit come from? When will the rich be happy? When it is 99%? 100%? Two years ago pundits bemoaned the fact that Occupy Wall Street had no official demands. I would like to ask the same of Wall Street and the super rich. What are your demands? How much profit does Wall Street need before they start paying decent wages again? How much profit does Wall Street need before we can raise the minimum wage?

And how bad does it have to get before the pitchforks and torches come out?

I say we are already there.

Rant off

Amen, brother.

[Scott]

Troll post removed.

[Scott]

Many years ago working in an profession closely associated with public welfare programs, one of the bigger problems for people living on public assistance was the issue of health care. Many people could find work, but they were on the lower rungs of the salary scale and they could not afford health care. I don't know, if or how Obama care does or will address this issue, but some of the more promising welfare recipients, just couldn't make the leap to independence because of the health care issue.

In at least one state, there were special provisions given to those who were on public assistance and found work to increase the amount needed before the medical portion was rescinded.

At that time, there were roughly about 5% of the people on public assistance (adult, head of households) there were chronically and hopelessly unemployable. They had been through numerous jobs programs, but they were simply the bottom of the food chain when it came to work. I doubt they could sweep a floor without breaking the broom.

[marell]

It's very difficult to interpret/draw objective conclusions from a lot of these numbers. And there are innumerable reasons for this. One paricularly complicated issue is that all fifty US states have their own laws, policies, procedures and definitions for just about everything. Individual states have a very wide range of autonomy and they protect it very jealously.

What's legal here is illegal there. What's called 'this' here is called 'that' there. Government programs are different everywhere and critria for participation is different everywhere. Certain health care components are subsidized 'here' but not 'there'. The policy for something in one place is rarely the same as it is elsewhere. Statistical data is not standardized and is compiled by 'these' agencies and collated by a 'those' agencies. The list goes on almost indefinitely.

All this is part of why some US politicians have such an easy time exploiting discord and flashing smoke and mirrors at the citizenry. Part of why numbers are largely meaningless outside of exceedingly precise contexts. And part of why it's so incredibly difficult (as in virtually impossible) to figure out what's really going on.

[zyphodb]

I'll repeat, some of our members need to understand that food stamps and welfare are not give aways. America is poor and getting poorer. There are no real jobs, just part time and flipping burgers for starvation wages. The majority of recipients are white, not black. I'm not trolling, off topic and there never was and is no profanity in the following article for your edification so don't censor me again.

Mon Sep 16, 2013 at 10:04 AM PDT

If 80% of us are in or near poverty then THERE IS NO MIDDLE CLASS.

by MinistryOfTruth

You can't tell me there is a middle if 4/5ths of us are almost poor.

How can their be a middle when 80% of Americans are poor or will be poor at some point in the future.

If we are all poor or near poor then poor is the new middle.

There is a "working class" and the wealthy, that is it. The middle class is DEAD. And everyone, specifically Democrats, need to stop pretending otherwise.

In High School Econ 101 we were taught that there are poor people and working poor people. Working poor people have jobs but are still poor. If we are to cling to the notion of a mythical middle than we must admit that working poor IS the new middle class, and that means there IS no middle class because you are still fracking (censored) poor.

So we can lie to ourselves and pretend that there is a middle class in America, but there isn't. If you are working and still struggling you are not middle class, you are working poor, and by clinging to a dead phrase like "middle" we dismiss and excuse all of those poor people who used to be middle class but got left behind by decades of stagnant wages, rising costs of living and the vast disparity between the growth of the wealth of the super rich compared to everybody else. If you are in debt up to your eyeballs you are not middle class, some one owns you through your debt. If you work and still are constantly broke you are not middle class and you are being kept poor on purpose because how else can they get you to go into debt in the first place?

So STOP trying to explain what the middle class is. It doesn't exist anymore. We live in a three income society, the laughable McDonald's/Visa budget even admits as much, you need TWO incomes just to be able to afford freezing to death during the winter because you have no money for heat or those sicknesses humans get from time to time, and even if you are married or share housing with someone neither of you can afford to lose work for a month or BAM back into poverty you go, so let's stop pretending there is a middle anymore.

If 80% of us are going to be in poverty or near it in our lifetimes then there is no middle class, there are poor people and rich people.

Whenever we talk about the middle class we are speaking of a thing that no longer exists. Not when 4/5ths of us are scrapping near poverty. Republicans only speak of the poor in disdain but Democrats treat the word "Poor' as if it were some four lettered swear not to be uttered in public, but the reality is simple, there is no middle class, it died a decade ago and was buried when Wall Street crashed the economy 4 years ago.

When we talk about raising the minimum wage we must remember that people who oppose raising the minimum wage are AGAINST trickle down, they are admitting it doesn't work because they will not allow it to do so. I say $10 an hour is NOT enough, how about double the current minimum wage for all workers including workers who earn tips and peg the growth of the minimum wage to the growth rate of Fortune 500 total executive compensation.

By pretending that poverty does not exist and lumping everyone in a mythical middle we are deluding ourselves from the real crisis facing America, because a nation where 80% of the people are at or near poverty is a nation that is one bad month away from total disaster.

And here are Republicans fighting to help starve Americans by denying them food assistance to supplement their suppressed wages. Let me ask those conservatives this, what happens when you drive people into poverty with low wages and starve them by rescinding food assistance? What alternative do you give those people? Tax cuts? More guns? But what about those Democrats who are afraid to seem too friendly to the poor by defending the working class instead of this mythical specter of the Ghost of Middle Class past?

Income inequality is not a problem, it is THE problem. We are all going broke and falling into poverty BECAUSE the wealthiest among us have decided that starving us and suppressing our wages is better for their profit line. At the beginning of the collapse Senator John McCain said "The fundamentals of our economy are strong."

If 4/5ths of us are going to be poor in our lifetime I would suggest that the fundamentals of our economy are fracked (censored) up and bullpoop (censored).

And someone should, you know, do something about that.

If 80% of us are poor then the middle is poor.

Taxes are not the problem. Government spending too much is NOT the problem. Are wages are too fracking (censored) low. That is the problem. Ignoring it won't make it go away. Part of the reason Bill DiBlasio won in NYC was due to the fact that he is telling the truth, the rich are richer than ever at a time when being poor is becoming the new middle BECAUSE the rich have invented a plutonomy for themselves at the expense of the rest of us. The sooner we deal with that the better, but first we must admit there is a problem. Coddling the rich is strangling the rest of us. Pretending otherwise is bullpoop (censored).

95% of the wealth is going to the wealthiest 1%. That isn't an economy, it's a casino with rigged slot machines. When the rich get 96% where will that other 1% of profit come from? When will the rich be happy? When it is 99%? 100%? Two years ago pundits bemoaned the fact that Occupy Wall Street had no official demands. I would like to ask the same of Wall Street and the super rich. What are your demands? How much profit does Wall Street need before they start paying decent wages again? How much profit does Wall Street need before we can raise the minimum wage?

And how bad does it have to get before the pitchforks and torches come out?

I say we are already there.

Rant off

You're Completely Right Sgtsabal, & as the majority of people on this forum are Brits I think it's worth saying that everything you say, when you substitute Conservatives/Libs for Republicans & Labour for Democrats is true for the UK as well... Sad times we live in.

[Scott]

There is a lot of differences from state to state, however, the states receive a significant amount of 'welfare' money from the federal gov't. In order to get the money, every county (or Parish) must provide a certain level of services to everyone. Above and beyond the basic welfare (for single parents, children, disabled etc.), the states can opt for more programs that will be partially funded by the federal gov't and partially by the states. This allows the states to tailor their welfare system to meet the needs of the people.

[NeverSure]

It's very difficult to interpret/draw objective conclusions from a lot of these numbers. And there are innumerable reasons for this. One paricularly complicated issue is that all fifty US states have their own laws, policies, procedures and definitions for just about everything. Individual states have a very wide range of autonomy and they protect it very jealously.

What's legal here is illegal there. What's called 'this' here is called 'that' there. Government programs are different everywhere and critria for participation is different everywhere. Certain health care components are subsidized 'here' but not 'there'. The policy for something in one place is rarely the same as it is elsewhere. Statistical data is not standardized and is compiled by 'these' agencies and collated by a 'those' agencies. The list goes on almost indefinitely.

All this is part of why some US politicians have such an easy time exploiting discord and flashing smoke and mirrors at the citizenry. Part of why numbers are largely meaningless outside of exceedingly precise contexts. And part of why it's so incredibly difficult (as in virtually impossible) to figure out what's really going on.

One issue with this is that the hard-core teat suckers move to the states with the most generous benefits, putting pressure on that state's budget. California is a prime example. Also, California just raised its minimum wage to $10 per hour which discourages business investment and makes things worse. It would be hard to estimate how many businesses have moved from California to Texas to escape high taxes and massive regulation brought on by dreamers.

California and many of its big cities are technically bankrupt while Texas has a balanced budget and the best business growth rate in the country.

If people would just look at the government models in Texas vs California, and I mean economists and nations, They would begin to "get it" that no government ever created wealth but rather is a consumer of wealth. Businesses create wealth, pay taxes, create jobs for people who then come off the dole and become taxpayers themselves, and the ship begins to right itself.

In accounting there is a rule of double. If you write a check for $10 but accidentally put it in the deposit column, you will be out of balance to the bank for $20. If your balance was $100, your checkbook will show $110 instead of the correct $90.

This happens with governments. If they can get someone off the dole and working paying taxes, the gain is double. They can stop paying out say $1,000 a month to someone, and instead collect $1,000 a month in taxes. The gain in the budget is $2,000 difference.

The inmates are running the asylum. So many people looking to the government for support when in fact the people are supposed to support the government.

Right now, worldwide, the monkeys are running the train and everyone can see things are getting worse, but they keep looking to the damn government, which is failing.

[NeverSure]

Something that a lot of people forget is that minimum wage is an entry level wage, and not a career goal. Each person should be learning a trade or getting some education or experience that with time elevates him up the ladder.

The system is set up to reward those who stay on the bottom. The system is set up to penalize those who are successful. In the US, 10% of the people (top earners) pay 70% of the taxes, and the bottom 50% of people pay only 2% of the taxes. LINK So hard work and success is penalized, while lack of the same is rewarded.

I don't know anyone who developed a good career, stayed out of debt, had a regular savings and investment plan, and worked hard who is in trouble.

[hawker9000]

Actually they are better off they say a family who earns $30,00 a year. those under the provity level income get free food, housing, medical care, education assistance plus other govt handouts.

While your point may be true to a lesser extent in some cases, your are groosly exaggerating otherwise. I don't know of anyone getting "free" housing beyond homeless shelters. Education assistance? All elementary and high schools are free, although there are obviously other costs.

Well I do. In California it's called "Section 8". When you qualify, your landlord gets a check toward your rent pmts every month. Whether it covers all or part of your rent depends on your individual circumstances. Nothing to do with homeless shelters. I know of one case where a young woman was living with her parents in their clifftop beachfront home and receiving it...all completely "legit" and within the state guidelines; no fraud involved.

[Traveling Sailor]

Just goes to show not all farangs are rich as some Thai girls seem to think.

$23,400 (700,000bht)pa seems like a good wage to me.

Many Thai girls would like to have a wage like that

700,000 baht per year comes to 58,333.33 baht per month which is less than what Thai immigration requires every month to stay here long term. And, if you cannot bring in 65,000 baht per month, you need to have 800,000 baht in the bank.

I can live in Thailand on 65,000 baht per month, by my self, but I cannot live in America on $2,097 per month. However, I'm talking California, not Iowa.

So, while a single Thai girl might love to make 700,000 a year, it is not enough for a farang to stay here, per immigration.

[Phronesis]

This is why the US government are tightening up the tax screws and chasing offshore deposits and investments.

100 million baby boomers are about to retire and want their pensions and free medical.

46.5 million are too poor to pay tax but rather will keep sucking on the welfare tit.

So that leaves about 100 million middle class tax payer to fund the welfare requirements of 150 million recipients.

When the boomers finally start cracking into the 401K box, they will find that there is no money left inside, but rather, hundreds of IOUs from various government departments.

THE USA is finished, as is EVERY other western country that has an aged pension and medicare system.

[FiftyTwo]

Just goes to show not all farangs are rich as some Thai girls seem to think.

$23,400 (700,000bht)pa seems like a good wage to me.

Many Thai girls would like to have a wage like that

700,000 baht per year comes to 58,333.33 baht per month which is less than what Thai immigration requires every month to stay here long term. And, if you cannot bring in 65,000 baht per month, you need to have 800,000 baht in the bank.

Not if you are married, 400k or 40k a month.

Not if you have a job, 50k a month.

Not if you are a teacher 25k a month.

The 800k/65k a month limit is the minimum required for people who contribute nothing to the country except their money.

[dighambara]

Actually they are better off they say a family who earns $30,00 a year. those under the provity level income get free food, housing, medical care, education assistance plus other govt handouts.

How true. The 'POOR' making $23,000 also have a flat screen TV, a cheap aotomobile (used cars are very inexpensive), food coupons and utility supplements. Compared to most Thais, those 'POOR' are quite wealthy.

[sgtsabai]

It is obvious that some of our members have ingested far to much faux news. Show me the proof that poor people have flat screen TVs, automobiles, etc. you can't. To those of you that ingest faux news, there are several real surveys that show people that watch faux news are more ignorant than those that watch no news. I've been poor, didn't know where the next meal was coming from, used food stamps and welfare to help raise my son and just survive. Yes I was able to climb out, with a lot of help and inspite of the FBI interference (I was VVAW, the nixon regime didn't take likely to Vietnam Vets that spoke truth to the power). I wasn't born poor, just lower middle class, with friends and a known family, that gave me a fighting chance. We have no middle class now, just poor, working poor and too damned rich. Circumstances made me temporarily dependent on state/federal assistance and I was glad to have it. I never made it to rich, I don't like stabbing people in the back and climbing over their carcass to get up the ladder. I'd rather be a human being than a scum of the earth rich dude.

[rotary]

They need to fix the welfare system so it pays less than not working. They also need to cut out the credit cards as people just get in trouble with them, stop banks from loaning money on houses at or near a 100% of the purchase price, and stop giving money to other countries as the US cannot even take care of its self very well with the extremely large debt they have run up. I guess these are opinions but all true in my mind. With just about no manufacturing jobs left in the USA it beats me how they think they can survive long term in the real world.

Name one US bank that has drafted a mortgage loan at or near 100% of the home's value in the last 4 years to anyone. Credit card issues are down substantially. If you can't show a credit score of 720 or higher (in US), you get rejected. Manufacturing has moved to Asia. It's been happening for 30+ years Not even South America can compete now. But many US manufacturers are doing quite well...., they just took it "offshore".

Realtor.com says it is still possible, sometimes using 2 loans with one loan being for the down payment. Agreed this has decreased but it has not stopped. It should be a minimum of 25% down. I have also seen a 50 year old man get a 30 year house loan.....how does that work?

Credit card issues may be down but they should be Zero. Poor people just get in a bind with them and end up paying 30% plus interest. There should be debit cards only or charge cards that have to be paid in full at the end of each month.

The only US manufacturers doing well as you say are offshore. In many cases, but not all, the offshore firm making the product for the US company are making their own now. The US, and for the most part, most western countries are in bad shape economy wise or getting there soon. All this spend thrift way of life, younger generations not wanting to do real jobs that build an economy, and credit stuff plus welfare paying more than a job are major reasons the USA is headed downhill.

[NeverSure]

It is obvious that some of our members have ingested far to much faux news. Show me the proof that poor people have flat screen TVs, automobiles, etc. you can't. To those of you that ingest faux news, there are several real surveys that show people that watch faux news are more ignorant than those that watch no news. I've been poor, didn't know where the next meal was coming from, used food stamps and welfare to help raise my son and just survive. Yes I was able to climb out, with a lot of help and inspite of the FBI interference (I was VVAW, the nixon regime didn't take likely to Vietnam Vets that spoke truth to the power). I wasn't born poor, just lower middle class, with friends and a known family, that gave me a fighting chance. We have no middle class now, just poor, working poor and too damned rich. Circumstances made me temporarily dependent on state/federal assistance and I was glad to have it. I never made it to rich, I don't like stabbing people in the back and climbing over their carcass to get up the ladder. I'd rather be a human being than a scum of the earth rich dude.

Fox News (FNC) has about as many viewers as all the rest of the cable news networks combined. It also has the top 13 rated shows on cable news. Link Link

There must be a lot of "ignorant" people who aren't sucking at the government teat.

[F430murci]

It is obvious that some of our members have ingested far to much faux news. Show me the proof that poor people have flat screen TVs, automobiles, etc. you can't. To those of you that ingest faux news, there are several real surveys that show people that watch faux news are more ignorant than those that watch no news. I've been poor, didn't know where the next meal was coming from, used food stamps and welfare to help raise my son and just survive. Yes I was able to climb out, with a lot of help and inspite of the FBI interference (I was VVAW, the nixon regime didn't take likely to Vietnam Vets that spoke truth to the power). I wasn't born poor, just lower middle class, with friends and a known family, that gave me a fighting chance. We have no middle class now, just poor, working poor and too damned rich. Circumstances made me temporarily dependent on state/federal assistance and I was glad to have it. I never made it to rich, I don't like stabbing people in the back and climbing over their carcass to get up the ladder. I'd rather be a human being than a scum of the earth rich dude.

Fox News (FNC) has about as many viewers as all the rest of the cable news networks combined. It also has the top 13 rated shows on cable news. Link Link

There must be a lot of "ignorant" people who aren't sucking at the government teat.

I watch occasionally. Some I get, but you would have to be a blind retard on heavy IV drugs not realize they spin a lot stuff that should not be spun. I wish they would not because I kind of get some of it and then go mis quoting the president or mis quoting Assad and the sad part is there of a bunch if uneducated Montana survivalist like mentality folk that just shake their head up and down and believe it.

[Somtamnication]

Having lived there for 24 years, I can tell you, there is real hunger in some of those places. Truly amazing and terribly sad.

[Ulysses G.]

I watch occasionally. Some I get, but you would have to be a blind retard on heavy IV drugs not realize they spin a lot stuff that should not be spun.

The problem with that line of thinking is that exactly the same thing can be said about most news media, including the New York Times. Fox only stands out because there has been a massive campaign to discredit them by people with the opposite political beliefs.

As to another point, there is no doubt at all that many people on welfare have cars, computers and TVs. I am not against that in the richest country on the planet, but I can understand why some people might think that it creates a lack of incentive to work.

[Scott]

In most states, your assets are counted when the means test for welfare benefits is applied. Depending on where you live a car may be considered an asset, but in many rural and semi rural areas it is considered a necessity. The same thing with your home. You may need to dispose of land in order to qualify for welfare, unless that land is income generating and can lessen your dependence on government assistance.

[Benmart]

Most of these so called poor don't know what poor is!! They have food on there table even if they have no money and now free medical even before the Obama-Care whet into effect. Most people in California are on disability and receiving government aid. It does not stop there. Don't ever call an American poor.

Please quantify what you mean by "Most". Coming for California, I am somewhat confused as to what numbers you are referring to and your data sources.

[Scott]

When a welfare recipient moves to another state, the home state is responsible for paying the welfare costs. You are still considered to be a resident of the home state. Very few welfare recipients can afford to move, so this is not a big problem. It does come into play if people relocate for job training etc., in that case the home state continues to pay.

State's like California attract a lot of people, both rich and poor.

There is probably a correlation between the economy and the number of welfare recipients.

[farang000999]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparitive_advantage

Just in case anyone wants to actually learn anything in between Fox News talking points.

[giggles]

like the UK the middle class is vanishing and will cease to exist,jobs were exported to China never to return.

poverty will get worse and there will be more Detroit type cities

[NeverSure]

like the UK the middle class is vanishing and will cease to exist,jobs were exported to China never to return.

poverty will get worse and there will be more Detroit type cities

I can't speak for the UK, but in the US jobs are, and will continue to return from China. For 50 years the US has been the world leader in innovation and technology.

I do believe the same will happen in the UK, because the UK can do as the US is doing, but I can't say for sure that they will.

HERE are the reasons that China won't be needed (or wanted) anymore.