westerners on the decline in Thailand ? Maybe time to move on ?

[driedmango]

Now.. I don't mean to be rude, but I have always though of Thailand as a democracy in some ways and also a haven for great value tourism, english spoken..

Anyone get a feeling that westerners are starting to stick out in a weird way in Thailand ? Like sometimes you look around and it is mostly other Asian countries traveling here now, or Russians, good for them, but we don't really share the same values in lots of ways, it's not that so much as I love Thais, I love Thailand, and it feels like it is being flooded by 2 week package tourists from China and Russia, Korea or whatever, and it's easy to confuse some of these with Thais until you notice they are not full of smiles or willing to talk with a westerner..

I am thinking of moving on to Central America before the same thing happens there...

I guess us westerners don't spend as much money as they would like here, even though we stay a long time, thailand seems full steam ahead with inviting the new rich.. and I don't really like being around cheap, rude and just out for a cheap thrill tourists.. and there is NO DOUBT westerners are complete idiots at times too....

I am not sure, I guess we might have to share this world and I am all for that..

What kind of changes have you guys noticed ? Are prices rising for everything, are westerners not as welcome anymore, are tourists from the rest of Asia trying to push us out and don't want to see us ? I dont know, I hope nobody will be a jerk right now and accuse me of being racisit, but I like Thailand because of Thais, If they are going to have doubling numbers of tourists every year from large tour groups that are rude and stuff.. it's watering down the exotic thing for me.. and good for all of them.. I have just been wondering about some less discovered places..

Just a rant, a little insecure as a hairy chested westerner, who isn't rich and is working class, who like freespeach, polite manners, quiet.. the times are a changin.

[driedmango]

One thing... for instance.. lots of us got tatoos for good or bad it's like half the freaking westerners have them, they are no big deal, mistakes for some, others take pride.. whatever but they are overlooked... but some people from China or even Japan think it means your a criminal, in my country it means you went and got a tattoo and whatever...thais have lots of tattoos, so i don't think they judge you, but now dealing with these kind of brainwashed yuppies and people that haven't been threw the cultural changes in the west (like the hippies, free love, free thinking, peace ... stuff like that.

[malcyx]

everybody is welcome in Thailand..

just seems your not happy to welcome everybody..

after all Thailand is a fantastic tourist location for anybody.

you guess we might have to share the world ??

where have you been , in a bubble ?

of course we have to share , .

expect more Chinese everywhere they are becoming more wealthy and can have holidays in any country .

[Darren McKenzie]

Like sometimes you look around and it is mostly other Asian countries traveling here now, or Russians, good for them, but we don't really share the same values in lots of ways, it's not that so much as I love Thais, I love Thailand, and it feels like it is being flooded by 2 week package tourists from China and Russia, Korea or whatever, and it's easy to confuse some of these with Thais until you notice they are not full of smiles or willing to talk with a westerner

You sound a bit xenophobic.

Sounds too like you're living in a tourist zone.

Try getting away from dumps like Phuket / Samui / Chiang Mai / Pattaya.

Plenty of "real" Thais where I live. And not a single Farang or Russian or Chinese tourist in sight!

[NeverSure]

Like sometimes you look around and it is mostly other Asian countries traveling here now, or Russians, good for them, but we don't really share the same values in lots of ways, it's not that so much as I love Thais, I love Thailand, and it feels like it is being flooded by 2 week package tourists from China and Russia, Korea or whatever, and it's easy to confuse some of these with Thais until you notice they are not full of smiles or willing to talk with a westerner

You sound a bit xenophobic.

Sounds too like you're living in a tourist zone.

Try getting away from dumps like Phuket / Samui / Chiang Mai / Pattaya.

Plenty of "real" Thais where I live. And not a single Farang or Russian or Chinese tourist in sight!

I think it's an interesting topic, and you have the answer for those who don't like the tourist traps.

There's lots of the "real" Thailand left to some extent, certainly much more than there is in the places you mentioned. But don't forget, many Westerners prefer Phuket or Pattaya or Chiang Mai or similar places. To each his own, but there is an escape from the smaller city to the big, or big to smaller. Those tour buses don't go to the smaller more rural places.

[wolf5370]

I think its less about westerners not wanting to come any more and about economics: China and Russia are two economies that have exploded over the last few decades, and that means individual wealth. So they start to spread their wings and holiday away from home (Black Sea is beautiful, but a common place for wealthy Russians these days - so the world is open - and Chinese holiday makers with means have great freedom abroad they can not usually glean at home). The opposite is Euro-Zone and the States where people have been tightening their belts - and the double whammy of the strong Baht (comparatively) means it is even more expensive.

This is the natural order of things - and as the economy flips again (and it will - as it always does) and the nouveau riche countries' bubbles burst and a lot of citizens are hurt, the old powers (economically and otherwise) start to slacked those belts and here we come again. Lets face it: coups, riots, floods, globally publicised scams, tsunamis and terrorism has not put a real dent in tourism, so hard to see what could!

I think the Russians are here to stay however, so get used to them. They seem OK to me - the tourist I have met I mean - and a few more years and they will be speaking the holiday English many non-native speakers that can afford regular foreign holidays and trade globally, use. The Chinese I think is more of a fad - and will shrink in size (I expect China to have some serious woes anyway in a few years or so) as they get bored and also notice places like the Philippines and Brazil - where it is not so mini-China like, but people will still do anything for a dollar.

[EyesWideOpen]

Like sometimes you look around and it is mostly other Asian countries traveling here now, or Russians, good for them, but we don't really share the same values in lots of ways, it's not that so much as I love Thais, I love Thailand, and it feels like it is being flooded by 2 week package tourists from China and Russia, Korea or whatever, and it's easy to confuse some of these with Thais until you notice they are not full of smiles or willing to talk with a westerner

You sound a bit xenophobic.

Sounds too like you're living in a tourist zone.

Try getting away from dumps like Phuket / Samui / Chiang Mai / Pattaya.

Plenty of "real" Thais where I live. And not a single Farang or Russian or Chinese tourist in sight!

"Real" Thais ?? Where do you live, Nakorn Nowhere ?? If I am not mistaken, these are the same " real"

Thais who come to work in tourist areas to make money. So you see, living in tourist areas gives you

access to great restaurants and night life, and the bonus is you get to rub shoulders with " real " Thais !!!

[IsaanUSA]

I hope nobody will be a jerk right now and accuse me of being racisit,

Not a racist at all, just seems like you don't like tourists or mass tourism. I don't think it has anything to do with where the tourists are coming from. I wouldn't move to Central America, I would just move to a different location in Thailand. It seems like the area where you currently live is growing more popular.

Nothing wrong with your post at all....people change as time goes on.

[Oscar2]

there is no doubt that tourism in Thailand is going the way of Chinese and other Asian tourists. after all the Chinese are the ones with money now. just look at the published numbers. the USA and Europe are still recovering from the worst economic crisis in 100 years. they just don't have the money to spend on vacation anymore. from my experience, most of the Thais i know are better off financially than most of the Western ex-pats i know here. Thailand has been experiencing a booming economy. of course many Thais are living on credit and it will catch up with them like it caught up with the west. indeed prices have skyrocketed here. many things are cheaper in America and Europe. but to me, the Thais are just as friendly as they were when i first came here more than 25 years ago - with the exception of those in Bangkok who are less patient than they were at one time.

no comment on the Russians which mostly visit Phuket, Pattaya and some are going to Koh Chang now. i hope they never come to the North!

[MrWorldwide]

OP, did you really need another thread on this topic ?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/663171-what-would-it-take-to-make-you-leave-thailand/

[driedmango]

there is no doubt that tourism in Thailand is going the way of Chinese and other Asian tourists. after all the Chinese are the ones with money now. just look at the published numbers. the USA and Europe are still recovering from the worst economic crisis in 100 years. they just don't have the money to spend on vacation anymore. from my experience, most of the Thais i know are better off financially than most of the Western ex-pats i know here. Thailand has been experiencing a booming economy. of course many Thais are living on credit and it will catch up with them like it caught up with the west. indeed prices have skyrocketed here. many things are cheaper in America and Europe. but to me, the Thais are just as friendly as they were when i first came here more than 25 years ago - with the exception of those in Bangkok who are less patient than they were at one time.

no comment on the Russians which mostly visit Phuket, Pattaya and some are going to Koh Chang now. i hope they never come to the North!

Interesting as I visited Koh Chang and was shocked it was like a 24 hour drunken scooter race.

[IsaanUSA]

I visited Koh Chang and was shocked it was like a 24 hour drunken scooter race.

Which beach?

[Beetlejuice]

Like sometimes you look around and it is mostly other Asian countries traveling here now, or Russians, good for them, but we don't really share the same values in lots of ways, it's not that so much as I love Thais, I love Thailand, and it feels like it is being flooded by 2 week package tourists from China and Russia, Korea or whatever, and it's easy to confuse some of these with Thais until you notice they are not full of smiles or willing to talk with a westerner

You sound a bit xenophobic.

Sounds too like you're living in a tourist zone.

Try getting away from dumps like Phuket / Samui / Chiang Mai / Pattaya.

Plenty of "real" Thais where I live. And not a single Farang or Russian or Chinese tourist in sight!

Are you serious? You are contradicting yourself.

I’ve just made a reply on your last thread, which has now been closed, that comes as no surprise.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/670250-five-reasons-why-youll-never-last-here-in-thailand/?p=6858275

Strange, because I’ve managed to stay the course here since 1982. How have I managed it, I wonder? What I said in your last thread still stands, one man’s meat is another man’s poison, Thailand is either for you or it isn’t, the same as living anywhere else.

It appears to me that many have become disenchanted with Thailand, but they’re certainly not commenting on my behalf.

Everyone has choices, and I agree with the OP, if they believe Thailand has gone into decline and no longer suits them, then yes, they have the option to move on.

We are foreigners here, living in a foreign land of a totally different culture. One has to adapt in order to live here. For those who are unable to adapt, or make compromises, or try to befriend their fellow expats, then it`s only to be a pretty miserable existence for you here. Happy or unhappy in Thailand, it`s what you make it

[mrtoad]

there is no doubt that tourism in Thailand is going the way of Chinese and other Asian tourists. after all the Chinese are the ones with money now. just look at the published numbers. the USA and Europe are still recovering from the worst economic crisis in 100 years. they just don't have the money to spend on vacation anymore. from my experience, most of the Thais i know are better off financially than most of the Western ex-pats i know here. Thailand has been experiencing a booming economy. of course many Thais are living on credit and it will catch up with them like it caught up with the west. indeed prices have skyrocketed here. many things are cheaper in America and Europe. but to me, the Thais are just as friendly as they were when i first came here more than 25 years ago - with the exception of those in Bangkok who are less patient than they were at one time.

no comment on the Russians which mostly visit Phuket, Pattaya and some are going to Koh Chang now. i hope they never come to the North!

Interesting as I visited Koh Chang and was shocked it was like a 24 hour drunken scooter race.

Really?

I think that's a bit of an exaggeration.

[homeownership]

If I want to be around a load of English People, then I will live in England. When I stay in Thailand, I live out in the stick of Chiang Mai. I have a small group of friends, who I spent a lot of time with, but I certainly do not crave the company of a load of expats, except online of course.

Yes there are a lot of new nationalities coming to Thailand, so what? I personally dont give a fig about the Russians or Koreans and I am pretty sure the feelings mutual.

Make Thailand a place called home and a home for you.

[willyumiii]

Like sometimes you look around and it is mostly other Asian countries traveling here now, or Russians, good for them, but we don't really share the same values in lots of ways, it's not that so much as I love Thais, I love Thailand, and it feels like it is being flooded by 2 week package tourists from China and Russia, Korea or whatever, and it's easy to confuse some of these with Thais until you notice they are not full of smiles or willing to talk with a westerner

You sound a bit xenophobic.

Sounds too like you're living in a tourist zone.

Try getting away from dumps like Phuket / Samui / Chiang Mai / Pattaya.

Plenty of "real" Thais where I live. And not a single Farang or Russian or Chinese tourist in sight!

"Real" Thais ?? Where do you live, Nakorn Nowhere ?? If I am not mistaken, these are the same " real"

Thais who come to work in tourist areas to make money. So you see, living in tourist areas gives you

access to great restaurants and night life, and the bonus is you get to rub shoulders with " real " Thais !!!

Once the "real Thais" leave their home and family to go to the city to earn money, they loose their identity as "real Thais".

They sell out and are never the same.

They leave their children behind and will do/sell almost anything to get more, more, more.

This is not the "real Thai "culture.

The immigrant workers in "Farang Thailand" are no longer real Thais.

I know a few who have ,for whatever reason ,had to make the change and live only for the Baht.

Even when they return home, they are never the same. It is sad to see.

Remember, when you go to Disneyland and see that kid dressed up in the Mickey Mouse costume, it's not really Mickey Mouse.

It's a someone who needs money trying to please you.

Edited September 25, 2013 by willyumiii

[jellydog]

Has the OP ever been to Central America ? He'll be light years better off in Thailand or any number of other places. Expats who have lived in Thailand for awhile are clueless as to crime levels in many other countries. I've lived in South and Central America, as well as Mexico City. Thailand is heaven compared to nearly anywhere when it comes to crime issues, and certainly heaven compared to Central America.

[farang000999]

Farang are coming less often because of their personal fiances and exchange rate.

And I really don't buy this mantra of

"Chinese, Indians and Russians don't have any money to spend compared to farang"

Very, very silly.

[soi41]

Unbelieveable! A Westener living in a SEA country (Thailand) complaining about to many visitors from other Asian countries??

A little like a Pakistani immigrant in England complaining about, that there are too many visitors from other European countries!

Get real! Adjust or leave.

[samran]

Here here! Finally some common sense. We must protect these shores against the influx of the unwashed masses from foreign places who don't bother to fit in, learn the language, work or pay taxes and contribute to society.

Edited September 25, 2013 by samran

[billd766]

Like sometimes you look around and it is mostly other Asian countries traveling here now, or Russians, good for them, but we don't really share the same values in lots of ways, it's not that so much as I love Thais, I love Thailand, and it feels like it is being flooded by 2 week package tourists from China and Russia, Korea or whatever, and it's easy to confuse some of these with Thais until you notice they are not full of smiles or willing to talk with a westerner

You sound a bit xenophobic.

Sounds too like you're living in a tourist zone.

Try getting away from dumps like Phuket / Samui / Chiang Mai / Pattaya.

Plenty of "real" Thais where I live. And not a single Farang or Russian or Chinese tourist in sight!

"Real" Thais ?? Where do you live, Nakorn Nowhere ?? If I am not mistaken, these are the same " real"

Thais who come to work in tourist areas to make money. So you see, living in tourist areas gives you

access to great restaurants and night life, and the bonus is you get to rub shoulders with " real " Thais !!!

Nakhon Nowhere IS pretty much where I live amongst "Real Thais".

A place hwre I haven't shut the front gate in years, I can go to the village 6 km away and not lock, bolt and bar my house, where I can leave me car unlocked in the village with food and whisky in it and come back 30 minutes later and nothing is missing.

Of course I don't have great restaurants and night life (been there and done that) but it suits me and it suits my family and to me that is all I need.

I get out to the "big city" a couple of times a year, do what I need to do and can't wait to get away again.

[cpofc]

Has the OP ever been to Central America ? He'll be light years better off in Thailand or any number of other places. Expats who have lived in Thailand for awhile are clueless as to crime levels in many other countries. I've lived in South and Central America, as well as Mexico City. Thailand is heaven compared to nearly anywhere when it comes to crime issues, and certainly heaven compared to Central America.

I haven't been to Central America.

In another lifetime just prior to retiring from the Service an immigrant family moved into the townhouse Unit across from us. In the meantime my (Thai) Wife had met an befriended a Single Mother Immigrant from Nicaragua, a couple of years before at English Language School. her name was Rosario and she was a lovely girl.

Anyway, I would drive home from work, in my uniform of course, and the young immigrant mother across from us would be out the front, on the lawn, nursing her baby. As soon as she spotted me she would panic and she would gather up all hyer things and rush inside and slam the door shut. Odd behaviour. But never mind.

At a news years eve party that year, Rosario was there and she asked me if I was Police. NO, I am not police, I am military. Which these people believed were one of the same. I explained to her that Australia was different and that I was no different to anyone else in the community and I was most certainly NOT a copper. And niether was any one else in the Armed Forces. Rosario told me that the family was from El Salvador and that Letty, the girl, was truly terrified of me. I was gobsmacked to be honest. I had to do something about that!

We left the Party for home and Rosario came back with us. I went over and knocked on their door. They were having a party too, with some other migrant friends from Central America.

Talk about a party stopper. Eventually, with Rosarios assistance, I talked my way inside and met them all and explained what the situation in Australia was, and that she needn't be afraid.

Fernando, the husband was a computer programmer, a damned nice bloke and we became friends. After this we would sometimes have a beer and chat together. He would tell me about his life in El Salvador.

I think I will stick with the LOS too, thanks very much.

[Jasun]

I personally don't mind the awkward and often inappropriately dressed Eastern Europeans taking up those empty beach chairs. Keeps the touts occupied, and makes for interesting visual entertainment.

[kevvy]

If I want to be around a load of English People, then I will live in England. When I stay in Thailand, I live out in the stick of Chiang Mai. I have a small group of friends, who I spent a lot of time with, but I certainly do not crave the company of a load of expats, except online of course.

Yes there are a lot of new nationalities coming to Thailand, so what? I personally dont give a fig about the Russians or Koreans and I am pretty sure the feelings mutual.

Make Thailand a place called home and a home for you.

well this is a first .... I actually agree with your post , well said .

[MJP]

Here here! Finally some common sense. We must protect these shores against the influx of the unwashed masses from foreign places who don't bother to fit in, learn the language, work or pay taxes and contribute to society.

. . . or drop serious coin here.

[samran]

Here here! Finally some common sense. We must protect these shores against the influx of the unwashed masses from foreign places who don't bother to fit in, learn the language, work or pay taxes and contribute to society.

. . . or drop serious coin here.

..sounds like the penny didn't drop for you?

[MJP]

Here here! Finally some common sense. We must protect these shores against the influx of the unwashed masses from foreign places who don't bother to fit in, learn the language, work or pay taxes and contribute to society.

. . . or drop serious coin here.

..sounds like the penny didn't drop for you?

Whooosh! Straight over the head.

[zydeco]

Central America is always on my mind. Costa Rica, the traditional expat escape for Americans, I hear, is becoming little more than a Little America. Ecuador seems to be the new hotspot in S. America. I really would like to see an opportunity open up in Cuba. Who knows what will follow the Castros.

[wolf5370]

Central America is always on my mind. Costa Rica, the traditional expat escape for Americans, I hear, is becoming little more than a Little America. Ecuador seems to be the new hotspot in S. America. I really would like to see an opportunity open up in Cuba. Who knows what will follow the Castros.

I hear there is a resort in Cuba for Americans (and other expats) - but you have to wear orange - and the water sports are less fun I understand

[MrHammer]

I think what has happened after 20 years of non-stop farang tourism is that a lot of Thais if not most has gotten used to foreigners and can probably tell which socioeconomic class they are from. That means they do not get the same groveling service they used to get. Sorry guys, rocking up on the shores of Thailand in flip flops, 50 lbs overweight and a bit of exchange rate riches doesn't cut it anymore. Maybe you should try the Philipines, they have been colonized for hundreds of years and worship the white man.

Good natured puns aside, I don't see why not try another country. Thailand isn't the only place in the world with similar conditions.There's Bali and the rest of Indonesia, Philippines, Cambodja, China, Taiwan just in Asia. All depends on your budget and need for infrastructure of course.

Edited September 25, 2013 by MrHammer