Nightmare On Wireless Rd

[ricksilb]

I am an American working at a reputable and very well paying international school here in Thailand. I recently married my beloved Filipina financee (Christmas), and brought her here to live with me of course. We had planned on visiting my elderly father this June during school break, so I went through the appointment process, set up the interview, collected and collated our myriad of paperwork and documentation and prepared for our 'interview'.

What we got, after 3 hours of waiting, was about two minutes of some young man speaking to her through a window, basically telling her to get lost. This was after telling me that I was not welcome at the window. I had at least thought that we would have a private interview and have some personal interaction. My guess is that they (he) had already decided the outcome in advance and didn't want to waste his time.

I am so pissed off at my country right now. I am not into politics, but perhaps we would have had more success if she was from Tijuana. He said that she "has no ties to the Thai government". I guess her ties to me as her husband with solid ties mean nothing. I am glad I waited until today to write this, or my post would have been filled with expletives and deleted. Perhaps she should have gone, or still should go to Manila and apply, as she has ties to the Philippines? The guy who rejected her said she'd probably have a better chance as a immigrant, and that by starting the process she may be able to qualify for a trip to the U.S.

Basically, I don't understand the whole freaking thing. She only wants to visit her elderly father-in -law and go to Disneyland. Can anybody here help me out? We are both grateful for any advice.

Rick

[Khutan]

I understand your frustration. Good to hear you cooled off before posting this.

They might have a rule where you have to apply for your visa from your home country rather than another country.

I tried ages ago to apply for a Visa to the UK for my wife from Australia, to get the response "Please apply in Thailand"

[sriracha john]

Sorry to hear the bad news...

I would have thought for a simple, short visit there wouldn't be a problem.

[ricksilb]

Sorry to hear the bad news...

I would have thought for a simple, short visit there wouldn't be a problem.

Thanks for the condolences, my friend. You did a great job with the kids, too

[markuk]

I understand your frustration. Good to hear you cooled off before posting this.

They might have a rule where you have to apply for your visa from your home country rather than another country.

I tried ages ago to apply for a Visa to the UK for my wife from Australia, to get the response "Please apply in Thailand"

I would have thought that most embassies will accept applications from foreign nationals as long as they are legally resident in Thailand. Is she legally resident?

My wife is not Thai or European and i have no problem getting UK tourist visas for her, they do however check with the UK embassy in her country so takes 3 days.

Shame to hear of someone having more problems.....

[ricksilb]

I would have thought that most embassies will accept applications from foreign nationals as long as they are legally resident in Thailand. Is she legally resident?

Yes, she is 100% legal here in Thailand. Maybe it's this new Homeland Security Act. I would go to Manila and apply, but I am afraid they would say that her ties are in Thailand now

[lopburi3]

You were treated the same as anyone else. The interview is not open to outside parties unless/until invited. It is short and done at a window.

She needs to prove to the Consulate that she will return at the end of a visit. If she has no history of travel that is going to be very hard for someone married to an American. Your job may be well paid but it is not something that ties you to Thailand (you could leave at any time - and school vacation would be ideal) and the assumption that you have to refute is that you are using this as a means to avoid the normal immigrant visa process time delay. If she goes through the immigrant visa process and than decides to remain with you in Thailand you have very good evidence that this is not the case and a Tourist visa would probably not be a problem. I would use there advise and go through the motions. Nothing lost but some time.

Sorry; but some others make it very hard for those with honest intentions.

[the gent]

Rick,

When you say 100% legally here do you mean she is here as a visitor on a tourist visa or as a resident dependent on you as your spouse with an endorsement in her passport to that effect?

[ricksilb]

You were treated the same as anyone else. The interview is not open to outside parties unless/until invited. It is short and done at a window.

She needs to prove to the Consulate that she will return at the end of a visit. If she has no history of travel that is going to be very hard for someone married to an American. Your job may be well paid but it is not something that ties you to Thailand (you could leave at any time - and school vacation would be ideal) and the assumption that you have to refute is that you are using this as a means to avoid the normal immigrant visa process time delay. If she goes through the immigrant visa process and than decides to remain with you in Thailand you have very good evidence that this is not the case and a Tourist visa would probably not be a problem. I would use there advise and go through the motions. Nothing lost but some time.

Sorry; but some others make it very hard for those with honest intentions.

Thanks for the insight, Lopburi. Would she be at a disadvantage applying for immigrant status from Thailand as opposed to her home country (Philippines), or does it not matter?

[lopburi3]

With no track record do not believe application in the PI would help. She is still married to an American and the vast majority of those who travel out of the PI with an American husband do not intend to return. I know you should not have to file for something you don't want or need but it seems to be about the only way you can prove your intent under the current rules and within a relatively short time frame.

On second read I see you are talking about immigrant visa. Sorry for misread. That is a process you start in the USA in the area of your residence but you may be able to do here in Bangkok as you live here (the paperwork will go to the USA). They may say it has to be done in PI but I suspect if they do it will be the last phase of visa issue which is an Embassy function.

[ricksilb]

Thanks again. Actually, I was interested in both non-immigrant and immigrant possibilities from Manila, so you answered my questions. I will begin the research on immigration procedures after I have a few days to chill.

[ricksilb]

Rick,

When you say 100% legally here do you mean she is here as a visitor on a tourist visa or as a resident dependent on you as your spouse with an endorsement in her passport to that effect?

She is a resident as my spouse, and yes, she has a one year multi-entry visa based on my position and support

[thaihome]

From various reports here and from a couple of acquaintance that have recently received US tourist visas, it appears there is an consular officer at the US Embassy that is unfamiliar with the concept of a US citizen living (and working) overseas and desiring for his non-US citizen to accompany him on a visit the US. I would not take it personally, nor would I blame the US government for what appears one person’s ignorance of your lifestyle.

One friend while applying for his wife’s visa (her previous 10 year visa had expired in March-06), who has been married for over 10 years, lived in some 5 different countries (including 2 EU) with his wife and is currently assigned to his company’s Bangkok office (for the 3rd time), was asked during interview why they did not apply for immigration visa. My friend was somewhat baffled by the question, but explained that since they did not live in US and had no intention of doing so in future it would not be appropriate. The officer had no coherent reply and went ahead and issued another 10 year visa.

Without looking at what you refer to as your “myriad of paperwork and documentation” I cannot make a judgment on how you presented your case. I can say that I know several people in your position that have received the visa in the past 6 months with no problems (each one was asked the inappropriate immigration visa question), other then the aggravation of preparing the application and waiting a couple of hours at consulate for the interview. Everyone one of them used at least the following to document husband’s ties to Thailand and wife’s subsequent ties to husband:

1. Copy of Husband’s work permit and passport with visa extensions

2. Copy of Marriage certificate.

3. Copy of Joint Thai bank account.

4. Letter from Company verifying long term employment in Thailand on married/family status and annual home leave policy (all were employed by large US Multi Nationals)

5. Copy of house lease agreement

6. Wife’s passport showing travel and long term stays in other counties (apparently not available in your case, though a Philippine national with a long term Thai dependent visa maybe close)

I recommend you review the above list and try to look at your documentation from the consular officer’s perspective and revise as you see fit. I would then reapply in the near future. When you go to the consulate for the interview the most important thing is to maintain a positive attitude and do get sh**y with the officer. Keep in mind, he deals with a large number of what he considers idiots and a**holes all day long, do not give him any reason to think you fall into that category.

TH

[ToTheBeach]

As far as my experiences...

It is a rule that all applying for US visa need to do so in their country of origin. I employed a lot of Philippine staff in the past and we were never allowed to apply for any visa for this staf other than in the Phillipines.

In contrary to above. My US visas (C1/D), I am from EU country, were issued in Bangkok without much problems. Others who applied for this same visa in Bangkok at US emnassy were rejected on grounds that tghey needed to apply in their home country.

[otherstuff1957]

I don't know if this post will help or just make the OP more annoyed. I am in an almost identical postion, except that my wife is Thai, not from the Phillipines. A little over a year ago, my wife applied for and was given a tourist visa to the US. The only real difference that I can see between our situations was that my wife and I had been married for more than a year at the time we made our application.

I noticed that you said that the FSO sent you away from the window during the interview. I suspect that they did that because they had already made their decision before you arrived for the interview. When we were interviewed the FSO barely said two words to my wife, he spent most of the time talking to me!

Good luck. I don't have the reference handy, but as a legal spouse of an American citizen, they cannot legally deny your wife entry to the US. Unfortunately, they can make it very difficult for you.

[ricksilb]

From various reports here and from a couple of acquaintance that have recently received US tourist visas, it appears there is an consular officer at the US Embassy that is unfamiliar with the concept of a US citizen living (and working) overseas and desiring for his non-US citizen to accompany him on a visit the US. I would not take it personally, nor would I blame the US government for what appears one person’s ignorance of your lifestyle.

One friend while applying for his wife’s visa (her previous 10 year visa had expired in March-06), who has been married for over 10 years, lived in some 5 different countries (including 2 EU) with his wife and is currently assigned to his company’s Bangkok office (for the 3rd time), was asked during interview why they did not apply for immigration visa. My friend was somewhat baffled by the question, but explained that since they did not live in US and had no intention of doing so in future it would not be appropriate. The officer had no coherent reply and went ahead and issued another 10 year visa.

Without looking at what you refer to as your “myriad of paperwork and documentation” I cannot make a judgment on how you presented your case. I can say that I know several people in your position that have received the visa in the past 6 months with no problems (each one was asked the inappropriate immigration visa question), other then the aggravation of preparing the application and waiting a couple of hours at consulate for the interview. Everyone one of them used at least the following to document husband’s ties to Thailand and wife’s subsequent ties to husband:

1. Copy of Husband’s work permit and passport with visa extensions

2. Copy of Marriage certificate.

3. Copy of Joint Thai bank account.

4. Letter from Company verifying long term employment in Thailand on married/family status and annual home leave policy (all were employed by large US Multi Nationals)

5. Copy of house lease agreement

6. Wife’s passport showing travel and long term stays in other counties (apparently not available in your case, though a Philippine national with a long term Thai dependent visa maybe close)

I recommend you review the above list and try to look at your documentation from the consular officer’s perspective and revise as you see fit. I would then reapply in the near future. When you go to the consulate for the interview the most important thing is to maintain a positive attitude and do get sh**y with the officer. Keep in mind, he deals with a large number of what he considers idiots and a**holes all day long, do not give him any reason to think you fall into that category.

TH

I had all the documentation present with me, and he did not want to see any of it--his mind was made up. I had no opportunity to get sh***y or otherwise, because I was instructed to leave the window before the "interview" even began

[ricksilb]

I don't know if this post will help or just make the OP more annoyed. I am in an almost identical postion, except that my wife is Thai, not from the Phillipines. A little over a year ago, my wife applied for and was given a tourist visa to the US. The only real difference that I can see between our situations was that my wife and I had been married for more than a year at the time we made our application.

I noticed that you said that the FSO sent you away from the window during the interview. I suspect that they did that because they had already made their decision before you arrived for the interview. When we were interviewed the FSO barely said two words to my wife, he spent most of the time talking to me!

Good luck. I don't have the reference handy, but as a legal spouse of an American citizen, they cannot legally deny your wife entry to the US. Unfortunately, they can make it very difficult for you.

Thanks for the info, and no, it doesn't make more annoyed at all. That would be impossble at this point If you find this reference, or have any other suggestions please let me know.

[thaihome]

As far as my experiences...

It is a rule that all applying for US visa need to do so in their country of origin. I employed a lot of Philippine staff in the past and we were never allowed to apply for any visa for this staf other than in the Phillipines.

In contrary to above. My US visas (C1/D), I am from EU country, were issued in Bangkok without much problems. Others who applied for this same visa in Bangkok at US emnassy were rejected on grounds that tghey needed to apply in their home country.

A person can apply for any type of US visa in the country where they are legally resident. Which explains why you got yours in Bangkok and my Thai wife's 5 year US tourist visa was issued in Beijing.

You don’t say what country you were in when employing your “Philippine staff”, perhaps a Middle Eastern country where 3rd world nationals do not have “residence” but are only considered temp workers.

TH

[boppia]

I haven't applied for a visa for my wife yet but the US embassy scares me. What I have seen and what I have heard has created an image in my head of something that is against "Freedom and Justice for all." At the same time i think it has a record of doing a terrible job screening people as so many 'tourists' or whoevers overstay their visas to the US. Change is really needed. The embassy needs to be clear as to who it will offer visas to and why. If it were it could reduce the massive flow of people who apply and so make its employees a bit happier.

Some other issues realted to the US embassy. When did some paperwork for my marriage there the person at the window who was either Thai or American Thai asked me where I met my wife. I don't like to lie so I told her at a bar. She let out a slight sound of regret. it also bothered me that despite there being some sort of a light door on the room everyone outside in the section for Americans probably could hear our conversation.

At the time I was registering my daughter's birth as well and signing some paperwork that I will be responsible for her. My wife's two other daugthers were with us in the small room. After that the Thai worker asked me why I don't sign to be responsible for my wife's other children. Some might think this is a normal question but I don't. I absolutely care about my wife's children but I don't think I should have to immediately sign to be responsible for them until they turn 18 years old. With time I may take over responsiblity but not at this point. I felt that this person had no right to ask questions like this. I should have asked her a sensitive question about where her personal devotion is Thailand or the US or maybe why she doesn't adopt some Thai kids herself. Anyway it pissed me off.

Another thing I wonder about the US embassy is whether there is any corruption in the embassy staff. I hear of foreigners going to people who supposedly have connections to get help to do visas. I met a filipino who used to live in LA and he said that people there used to pay 2K for greencards. I guess I am ignorant in many ways about government. I thought the US government was better than other governments when it did things.

Lets hope that someday the US visa system, embassies, and staff improve. I would also like to see better enforcement on the home front. For too long the people that follow the rules and are honest seem to be the people who suffer.

[sriracha john]

I haven't applied for a visa for my wife yet but the US embassy scares me.

At the same time i think it has a record of doing a terrible job screening people as so many 'tourists' or whoevers overstay their visas to the US. Change is really needed. The embassy needs to be clear as to who it will offer visas to and why.

"The New Colossus" is a poem by Emma Lazarus. She was the winner of a contest in 1883 and in 1903, 20 years after it was written, it was engraved on a bronze plaque and placed at the base of the Statue of Liberty in New York City.

In its famous final lines, it says:

Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

----------------------

America in 2006 is quite different...

[Dr. Burrito]

From various reports here and from a couple of acquaintance that have recently received US tourist visas, it appears there is an consular officer at the US Embassy that is unfamiliar with the concept of a US citizen living (and working) overseas and desiring for his non-US citizen to accompany him on a visit the US. I would not take it personally, nor would I blame the US government for what appears one person’s ignorance of your lifestyle.

One friend while applying for his wife’s visa (her previous 10 year visa had expired in March-06), who has been married for over 10 years, lived in some 5 different countries (including 2 EU) with his wife and is currently assigned to his company’s Bangkok office (for the 3rd time), was asked during interview why they did not apply for immigration visa. My friend was somewhat baffled by the question, but explained that since they did not live in US and had no intention of doing so in future it would not be appropriate. The officer had no coherent reply and went ahead and issued another 10 year visa.

Without looking at what you refer to as your “myriad of paperwork and documentation” I cannot make a judgment on how you presented your case. I can say that I know several people in your position that have received the visa in the past 6 months with no problems (each one was asked the inappropriate immigration visa question), other then the aggravation of preparing the application and waiting a couple of hours at consulate for the interview. Everyone one of them used at least the following to document husband’s ties to Thailand and wife’s subsequent ties to husband:

1. Copy of Husband’s work permit and passport with visa extensions

2. Copy of Marriage certificate.

3. Copy of Joint Thai bank account.

4. Letter from Company verifying long term employment in Thailand on married/family status and annual home leave policy (all were employed by large US Multi Nationals)

5. Copy of house lease agreement

6. Wife’s passport showing travel and long term stays in other counties (apparently not available in your case, though a Philippine national with a long term Thai dependent visa maybe close)

I recommend you review the above list and try to look at your documentation from the consular officer’s perspective and revise as you see fit. I would then reapply in the near future. When you go to the consulate for the interview the most important thing is to maintain a positive attitude and do get sh**y with the officer. Keep in mind, he deals with a large number of what he considers idiots and a**holes all day long, do not give him any reason to think you fall into that category.

TH

I had all the documentation present with me, and he did not want to see any of it--his mind was made up. I had no opportunity to get sh***y or otherwise, because I was instructed to leave the window before the "interview" even began

Rick:

I can't tell from your post, so regarding this paperwork, was it submitted at the time of application, rather than taken in for the interview? If not, perhaps try again, and this time, send in all the paperwork with the application and apply for a tourist visa. Might make a difference. If you did submit it with application, please pardon my misreading of your post.

Dr. B

[ricksilb]

Without looking at what you refer to as your “myriad of paperwork and documentation” I cannot make a judgment on how you presented your case. I can say that I know several people in your position that have received the visa in the past 6 months with no problems (each one was asked the inappropriate immigration visa question), other then the aggravation of preparing the application and waiting a couple of hours at consulate for the interview. Everyone one of them used at least the following to document husband’s ties to Thailand and wife’s subsequent ties to husband:

1. Copy of Husband’s work permit and passport with visa extensions

2. Copy of Marriage certificate.

3. Copy of Joint Thai bank account.

4. Letter from Company verifying long term employment in Thailand on married/family status and annual home leave policy (all were employed by large US Multi Nationals)

5. Copy of house lease agreement

6. Wife’s passport showing travel and long term stays in other counties (apparently not available in your case, though a Philippine national with a long term Thai dependent visa maybe close)

I recommend you review the above list and try to look at your documentation from the consular officer’s perspective and revise as you see fit. I would then reapply in the near future. When you go to the consulate for the interview the most important thing is to maintain a positive attitude and do get sh**y with the officer. Keep in mind, he deals with a large number of what he considers idiots and a**holes all day long, do not give him any reason to think you fall into that category.

TH

I had all the documentation present with me, and he did not want to see any of it--his mind was made up. I had no opportunity to get sh***y or otherwise, because I was instructed to leave the window before the "interview" even began

Rick:

I can't tell from your post, so regarding this paperwork, was it submitted at the time of application, rather than taken in for the interview? If not, perhaps try again, and this time, send in all the paperwork with the application and apply for a tourist visa. Might make a difference. If you did submit it with application, please pardon my misreading of your post.

Dr. B

Hi Dr. B

I had all the paperwork with me, but the guy had no interest whatsoever in seeing it, as according to him it would make no difference. I guess being newly married to a Filipina in Thailand just wasn't going to get it. Anyway, I've done some more research and am no longer angry at my country. It seems there are a million or two Filipinos that came on a tourst visa and kind of 'forgot' to come back

I am going to get a spousal immigrant visa for her in the Philippines along with a K3 (don't know all the details, but I found a gentleman in the States who has extensive experience in this). The whole thing should take about 9 months, so I will just have to chill and wait until next summer..

Rick

[boppia]

SriRacha times change. The philosophy has never been true just so many other things in this world. Besides America is not looking for 'wretched refuse'. Who would want wretched refuse. Was the writer proslavery? Just playing the devils advocate.

All I want to know is that when I do something at a government office the government makes sure its policies and workers are fair. Why should any citizen have to feel like they are gambling everytime they do paperwork with the government. Th US embassy etc needs to be better than it is. I expect to play roulette when dealing with the Thai government but not with my own. If people can use connections at the embassy to do things something is wrong.

[sriracha john]

SriRacha times change. The philosophy has never been true just so many other things in this world. Besides America is not looking for 'wretched refuse'. Who would want wretched refuse. Was the writer proslavery? Just playing the devils advocate.

All I want to know is that when I do something at a government office the government makes sure its policies and workers are fair. Why should any citizen have to feel like they are gambling everytime they do paperwork with the government. Th US embassy etc needs to be better than it is. I expect to play roulette when dealing with the Thai government but not with my own. If people can use connections at the embassy to do things something is wrong.

I'm sorry you missed my last line:

America in 2006 is quite different...

In other words, I share your dismay and agree with you in voicing displeasure.

I further shared the frustation in a similar way... taking 11 months to get my Filipino ex-wife, into the USA on a spouse visa. Defending the country's right, as an active-duty service member at the time, to screw me, made no difference.

[boppia]

I wonder if the employees working at the embassy are content with the system they use and their work. Embassies and ambassadors like so much of the government seem to focus on helping the American haves and the foreign haves. They just don't care about average people.

[backflip]

Is the only Filipino you know your fiancee? All Filipinos know that it is extremely difficult to get into the US. They ALL do, and if your fiancee denies knowledge of that, she's not telling you the truth. I don't know why the US government has this policy - and I'm sure others will chime in that, in their case - their was no problemo whatsoever. It is so difficult, and the waiting list is so long - 10 to 20 years - parents apply for visas when their children are born.

[The Skipper]

.

How many illegal Thais are living in Los Angeles now?

100,000? More?

The US Embassy will turn away almost everybody.

Can you blame them?

[boppia]

The poorest people have no chance of going to a place like the US unless the happen to be a genious, marry someone from that country, get in illegally or something like that.

It would seem to me that many of the illegal filipinos and Thais in the US are from middleclass or upper class families. They had to have some way to get through the embassy. Why do the embassies make so many mistakes? Are their staff on the take or is their screening system a failure?

[IMA_FARANG]

I am an American working at a reputable and very well paying international school here in Thailand. I recently married my beloved Filipina financee (Christmas), and brought her here to live with me of course. We had planned on visiting my elderly father this June during school break, so I went through the appointment process, set up the interview, collected and collated our myriad of paperwork and documentation and prepared for our 'interview'.

What we got, after 3 hours of waiting, was about two minutes of some young man speaking to her through a window, basically telling her to get lost. This was after telling me that I was not welcome at the window. I had at least thought that we would have a private interview and have some personal interaction. My guess is that they (he) had already decided the outcome in advance and didn't want to waste his time.

I am so pissed off at my country right now. I am not into politics, but perhaps we would have had more success if she was from Tijuana. He said that she "has no ties to the Thai government". I guess her ties to me as her husband with solid ties mean nothing. I am glad I waited until today to write this, or my post would have been filled with expletives and deleted. Perhaps she should have gone, or still should go to Manila and apply, as she has ties to the Philippines? The guy who rejected her said she'd probably have a better chance as a immigrant, and that by starting the process she may be able to qualify for a trip to the U.S.

Basically, I don't understand the whole freaking thing. She only wants to visit her elderly father-in -law and go to Disneyland. Can anybody here help me out? We are both grateful for any advice.

Rick

As an american I know how you feel. Some things you have to understand however.

First of all, if you persevere you will get through it.

Secondly, try to understand that the people at the visa aplication have heard every sob story, half-a** excuse, boldfaced lie, or whatever else you can imagine from applicants. They are tired of them all. That is not an excuse for them being rude, but it is a true fact that you have to understand.

Thirdly, the interview (I think that's what you meant) is for the judging the applicant, not for his/her connections. I know you may have a perfectly valid and innocent reason for supporting your fiancee, but that isn't always the case. That is why they want the applicant at the interview and no one else. And yes, the seemingly "best qualified" sponsors will lie about their reasons.

Now, having said all this, you do have the right to request a review if you think the procedure unfair or the people are rude to you or her. They WON'T like that if you ask them, but if you politely ask them or make a polite complaint about their actions, they have to listen. If you feel they are being unfair or rude, you can ask to speak to the consulate. That may or may not be a good idea.

Best I can say is; clench your teeth and try to stay calm to get through the process.

Good luck.

[Gary A]

I would suspect that the US Embassy views your application as a back door through the difficult and unfair immigration system.

Have you tried to apply in the PI's? If you have and had no success there I think you can forget about getting her a visa in Thailand or any other country.