Two redshirts killed by bullets fired by soldiers: court

[webfact]

2010 POLITICAL VIOLENCE
Two redshirts killed by bullets fired by soldiers: court
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- A Criminal Court inquest concluded on Monday that two redshirt protesters were killed by a high-velocity bullet fired by a soldier operating near Banglamphu in Bangkok during a military crackdown in April 2010.

The court found that Charoon Chaimaen, 46, and Sayam Watanukul, 52, were hit by bullets in front of Satriwithaya school on Din Sor Road.

Court ruled that Charoon died at Central General Hospital at 10pm on April 10, 2010. He was hit a high-velocity bullet that destroyed his lungs and liver.

Sayam died on enroute to the hospital. He was hit in his back and the bullets went through his chest, destroying major blood vessels.

The bullets were fired by soldiers who retreated from a defensive line near Satriwithaya School to a soi alongside Wat Bowonniwet near Wan Chat Bridge intersection.

The court said it was not known who fired the shots that killed the two redshirt supporters.

The two men's relatives said the court ruling was fair. They wanted to see offenders take responsibility for the "intense situation" in which their family members died.


-- The Nation 2013-09-30

[Local Drunk]

Nor will they ever know who shot Se Daeng.

[whybother]

Why were the soldiers retreating?

[dcutman]

The court said it was not known who fired the shots that killed the two redshirt supporters.

How can they not know (exactly) who fired these weapons? Every soldier is issued a weapon. Its well documented with serial number.

A forensics person collects and identifies that weapon and whom it was issued too.

If they dont know (exactly who) without a reasonable doubt, how can they say anybody fired the weapon.

I am assuming here, there is no weapon for evidence. Only an assumption based on a "high velocity bullet".

Edited September 30, 2013 by dcutman

[rubl]

Why were the soldiers retreating?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/647864-thai-army-officer-insists-to-court-japanese-reporter-killed-by-blackshirts/page-2#entry6526477

[monkeycountry]

Why were the soldiers retreating?

The peaceful protest got too peaceful?

[philw]

The verdicts and evidence are mounting up.

Unarmed and shot in the back by the RTA.

[waza]

Why were the soldiers retreating?

The peaceful protest got too peaceful?

Heres an example of how peacefull they were........

http://youtu.be/2-Zr-uMPCKQ

If the army was shooting at protestors as they retreated from the granade attack this guy would be dead...

http://youtu.be/ztF6hUryt88

Heres the peacefull protestors who kicked it all off....

http://youtu.be/d4Ev4rX246Q

But I am sure these peacefull protestors with laser range finders, granade launchers or the ones with sniper rifles didnt harm anyone.....

http://youtu.be/FRuoQyGzx_I

Edited September 30, 2013 by waza

[LuckyLew]

I heard Thaskin made everything better for the families of the dead by giving them each one free box meal

[WhizBang]

The two men's relatives said the court ruling was fair. They wanted to see offenders take responsibility for the "intense situation" in which their family members died.

I agree, it would be good to see the Red Shirts stand up and take responsibility for the "intense situitation", which they themselves created.

[jbrain]

The verdicts and evidence are mounting up.

Unarmed and shot in the back by the RTA.

Indeed the verdicts and evidence are mounting up, but regardless how many more verdicts there will be, the Democrats will still not vote for Thaksin's return .

[whybother]

The verdicts and evidence are mounting up.

Unarmed and shot in the back by the RTA.

The army were retreating from an armed militia. Were these guys shot in the back by the militia? Would they have been running away from the army ... who were running away in the other direction?

[MikeOboe57]

The verdicts and evidence are mounting up.

Unarmed and shot in the back by the RTA.

Dear Phil,

one has to be very simple minded and naive to believe that any armed red militant wounded or killed in accordance with the ROE would show up at the dressing station or the morgue in full military regalia. Of course he would immediately be stripped of balaklava, cartridge belt etc. and presented to the press as "innocent rice farmer".

And let us not forget that both sides fired the same bullets at one another, 5.56 x 45 mm, a per definitionem "high speed ammunition".

[Tigre101]

Why were the soldiers retreating?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/647864-thai-army-officer-insists-to-court-japanese-reporter-killed-by-blackshirts/page-2#entry6526477

Coming under a red shirt grenade attack is as good a reason to retreat as there is. Given the situation, it's not surprising to hear the soldiers were firing as they retreated.

Still, as mentioned, without identifying the shooters, it's inconclusive just who in this fire fight between red shirts and soldiers fired the fatal shots.

With all the weaponry involved on both sides, it remains indefinite.

[Thaddeus]

Court ruled that Charoon died at Central General Hospital at 10pm on April 10, 2010. He was hit a high-velocity bullet that destroyed his lungs and liver.

One bullet, that's one heck of a shot.

I know that there are always three sides to every story, one side, the other side, and the truth.

Thai reports have developed a fourth, for almost every story, Thainess, and you'd better believe it or else..... get sued.

edit/things and spelling

Edited September 30, 2013 by Thaddeus

[waza]

The verdicts and evidence are mounting up.

Unarmed and shot in the back by the RTA.

Dear Phil,

one has to be very simple minded and naive to believe that any armed red militant wounded or killed in accordance with the ROE would show up at the dressing station or the morgue in full military regalia. Of course he would immediately be stripped of balaklava, cartridge belt etc. and presented to the press as "innocent rice farmer".

And let us not forget that both sides fired the same bullets at one another, 5.56 x 45 mm, a per definitionem "high speed ammunition".

Its easy for a militant group to suffer no casualties when they have the red cannon fodder as human shields, what would be difficult however, would be to have no friendly fire incidents. The PTP witch hunt will continue and the results wont change, Of course there wasn't a Thaksin death squad operating during the red riots so all deaths by weapons of war were commited by the military, including their own.

[kimamey]

The verdicts and evidence are mounting up.

Unarmed and shot in the back by the RTA.

Very true but will any action be taken against anyone in the RTA who acted outside the ROE or will they just concentrate on trying to put pressure on Abhisit and Suthep.

From what I've seen so far there seems to be little appetite for upsetting the military so the latter is a safer bet.

[JAG]

Court ruled that Charoon died at Central General Hospital at 10pm on April 10, 2010. He was hit a high-velocity bullet that destroyed his lungs and liver.

One bullet, that's one heck of a shot.

I know that there are always three sides to every story, one side, the other side, and the truth.

Thai reports have developed a fourth, for almost every story, Thainess, and you'd better believe it or else..... get sued.

edit/things and spelling

Not really such a heck of a shot. The .556 round fired by the M16 and most other modern military rifles is a light high velocity projectile. If it hits the body and encounters only soft tissue it may well go straight through, causing relatively little damage. If it hits bone it will be deflected, and tumble through the body causing the sort of catastrophic injury suffered by this poor soul.

What is a heck of a shot is to manage to shoot someone in the back whilst you are withdrawing and they are advancing on you posing a threat requiring you to shoot - but that is another matter.

[waza]

Court ruled that Charoon died at Central General Hospital at 10pm on April 10, 2010. He was hit a high-velocity bullet that destroyed his lungs and liver.

One bullet, that's one heck of a shot.

I know that there are always three sides to every story, one side, the other side, and the truth.

Thai reports have developed a fourth, for almost every story, Thainess, and you'd better believe it or else..... get sued.

edit/things and spelling

Not really such a heck of a shot. The .556 round fired by the M16 and most other modern military rifles is a light high velocity projectile. If it hits the body and encounters only soft tissue it may well go straight through, causing relatively little damage. If it hits bone it will be deflected, and tumble through the body causing the sort of catastrophic injury suffered by this poor soul.

What is a heck of a shot is to manage to shoot someone in the back whilst you are withdrawing and they are advancing on you posing a threat requiring you to shoot - but that is another matter.

I addition, considering that the bullet had to pass through a tidal wave of advancing protestors without hitting any in order to reach this guy who was running away, that I would consider that a heck of a shot. Otherwise I agree the shock wave created as this bullet travelled through soft tissue would have caused the major damage discribed.

[GeorgeO]

Why were the soldiers retreating?

If they have concluded that the redshirts were indeed killed by shots fired by soldiers, and they also note that the soldiers were retreating at the time, that would clearly suggest that there were fair grounds for the soldiers to open fire since they were obviously under attack themselves.

Treat these cases the same way that the police treat traffic accidents when farangs are involved; i.e., if you hadn't been there, the accident wouldn't have happened.

If these redshirts had not invaded Bangkok and engaged in peaceful means of making their point, the incidents of 2010 would not have taken place. You reap what you sow....!!

[tingtongteesood]

The two men's relatives said the court ruling was fair. They wanted to see offenders take responsibility for the "intense situation" in which their family members died.

And WHO is going to take responsibility for the Red Shirts rioting and burning down Central World ? They had been told to leave, they refused, they rioted, it's a miracle more weren't killed. Just look at similar recent actions in the middle east, hundreds get killed in one day ! The Reds deserved what happened and a lot more, they were extremely damn lucky the government took such a soft approach for 2 months...

[webfact]

Court rules two protesters in 2010 protest shot from direction of military
By English News



BANGKOK, Oct 1 – The Bangkok South District Court has ruled that two of the victims who died in the 2010 political upheaval in Bangkok were fired at from the direction of military forces situated in front of a school on Rajdamnern Avenue.

Charoon Chaimaen, 46, and Sayam Wattananukul, 52, were joining the protest organised by the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD). They were killed during the military attempt to disperse the demonstrators on April 10, 2010.

The court said yesterday that four witnesses at the site of the shooting confirmed that they saw sparks from rifles and gunshots from the military side.

They told the court that the two men collapsed near Satriwittaya School while a police autopsy concluded that Mr Charoon and Mr Sayam, who were pronounced dead at the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration General Hospital, were shot by high-velocity bullets at the same location.

The witnesses’ accounts were in accord with an investigative report on the direction of the gunfire but it could not be determined as to who fired the shots, the court said.

The families of both men said the court’s judgement was fair and the culprits must be responsible for the incidents which have damaged their families. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2013-10-01

[gemini81]

Thailand's version of Al Quada mercenaries in red wound up in a pool of red that they certainly deserved.

[Tatsujin]

With all the military ordnance that was stolen prior to these "protests", and the proliferation of "black shirts" in the area (and the footage of which seems to have now gone missing despite it being shown "live" at the time), I find it hard to understand how they can definitively prove that it was a "soldier" that fired the shot. Yes, ballistics can prove it was a "military" weapon, but it doesn't prove who actually fired the round.

Aside from all that, I go with the "Thainess" principle they use with us foreigners constantly. When something bad or wrong happens, their logic is that if we weren't there, the event wouldn't have happened, therefore it's our fault. Same logic applies, if the Reds weren't there doing illegal things, then they wouldn't have got shot, ergo it's all their own fault.

[klauskunkel]

Two redshirts killed by bullets fired by soldiers: court

A separate inquest into the failure of their amulets came to no conclusion.

[smutcakes]

The verdicts and evidence are mounting up.

Unarmed and shot in the back by the RTA.

Indeed the verdicts and evidence are mounting up, but regardless how many more verdicts there will be, the Democrats will still not vote for Thaksin's return .

haha as if the Govt and people who voted give <deleted> about some two bit party. You think Suthep would not roll over and have his belly scratched if enough was in it for him?

I think Abhisit has more class than Suthep or TS, so hopefully let the wonderful Thai legal system take its course.

[peecee]

The court said it was not known who fired the shots that killed the two redshirt supporters.

How can they not know (exactly) who fired these weapons? Every soldier is issued a weapon. Its well documented with serial number.

A forensics person collects and identifies that weapon and whom it was issued too.

If they dont know (exactly who) without a reasonable doubt, how can they say anybody fired the weapon.

I am assuming here, there is no weapon for evidence. Only an assumption based on a "high velocity bullet".

They are issued with individual serialized weapons and forensics can match the rounds, but do they want to put anyone on trial for manslaughter; especially after they had sworn to only firing blanks?

[NoshowJones]

The court said it was not known who fired the shots that killed the two redshirt supporters.

How can they not know (exactly) who fired these weapons? Every soldier is issued a weapon. Its well documented with serial number.

A forensics person collects and identifies that weapon and whom it was issued too.

If they dont know (exactly who) without a reasonable doubt, how can they say anybody fired the weapon.

I am assuming here, there is no weapon for evidence. Only an assumption based on a "high velocity bullet".

I have no sympathy for these two red shirts shot by the soldiers. These people cost lives as well as peoples livelihoods with their destruction in Bangkok. Hell mend them.

[Dap]

The verdicts and evidence are mounting up.

Unarmed and shot in the back by the RTA.

Well, the verdicts anyway. NOT real sure about how much evidence is mounting up.

Ya' got a list there philw? maybe you'd like to post it as well

[nicknostitz]

Well, the verdicts anyway. NOT real sure about how much evidence is mounting up.

Ya' got a list there philw? maybe you'd like to post it as well

Denial is not just a river in Egypt...

But instead of mounting evidence - well, soon a Mt. Everest of evidence - instead of adapting analyses to reality, many here desperately try to hold on an erroneous narrative they faithfully believed for the past 3 1/2 years. Why should anyone here list the evidence anymore - the evidence was presented in full during the court inquests, and these verdicts were based on that evidence.

But - the earth is flat because it is flat and therefore it has to be flat...

Edited October 1, 2013 by nicknostitz