Narak

[Confuscious]

I am trying to learn to write and to read Thai by myself.

With the help of books (most of them schoolbooks from my child) and the internet.

Lately, I was chatting with a (girl)friend.

She is a teacher in a local school in a nearby province.

I always tried to use my Thai writing skills and she liked that.

But last week, while chatting, I forgot to add the "อั" sign and she went completely nuts.

I would have expected from a teacher a different reaction, but maybe others will agree with her.

So, what you think?

Here a copy of the chat:

Previous chat not important ...

21:48 Me นรกมากๆ

21:48 She What

21:49 ...

21:50 ...

21:51 ...

21:51 She นรกมาก ๆ อะไร

21:52 She Bad word p

21:52 Me คุณเป็นนรกมากๆ

21:53 She if u dont thai not sant to me

21:54 Me Why?

21:54 Me You don't like?

21:54 Me My Thai is not correct?

After this discussion, she did not answer anymore messages from me.

The next day I realized the error and tried to send her a message, but she never read it.

2013/09/29(Sun)

12:01 Me sorry for the error

12:03 Me i mean to say lovely (narak)

12:06 Me น่ารักมากๆ

12:07 Me I try to learn Thai

12:08 Me is that wrong?

For the non-Thai readers in this forum, I tried to say "narak (=lovely)" but wrote "hell (narok)' instead.

[Chaam local]

Typical reaction, you write in Thai but she replies in broken English, and basically she's telling you that you shouldn't bother learning Thai, since you are not allowed to make mistakes. Coming from a teacher that should be surprising, but sadly it isn't.

[Richard W]

Actually, the OP omitted 2 vowel signs and a tone mark, which is a larger error. The difference between [F]naa[H]rak and [H]na[H]rok is not just a difference of one vowel.

Additionally, น่ารัก is compound, and if it had been learnt as such it would have been much less likely to be misspelt.

[Confuscious]

Actually, the OP omitted 2 vowel signs and a tone mark, which is a larger error. The difference between [F]naa[H]rak and [H]na[H]rok is not just a difference of one vowel.

Additionally, น่ารัก is compound, and if it had been learnt as such it would have been much less likely to be misspelt.

Hi Richard,

I agree with your remark about the spelling errors.

But don't forget that I am learning to write and read Thai.

A very difficult language.

My question was not about the spelling errors, but about her reaction to the spelling errors.

Do you agree with her reaction (as a teacher).

Her English is far from perfect.

Would you find it fair if I had told her "not to write to me if she is not English" and dump her?

What is the point of learning a foreign language if everybody would act like this?

[Mole]

I don't know man, my first impression is that this looks like some kind of joke or something. First the error is quite extensive and I agree with Richard that any beginner should have seen this.

It's like the usual joke when you say that you insulted some girl by saying ซวย instead of สวย.

In additional, if she really reacted this way, then you should seriously get a new girl.

This is her reaction of such a bagatelle, then think about how she would on other more serious matters...

[Semeya]

I was happy knowing the meaning of Naarak but even happier knowing the meaning of Naarok....Because of your honest mistake, I've added a new word to my vocabulary.

[Ajaan]

Well, your spelling mistake was unfortunate but also understandable at your level of Thai, never mind what some of the self-righteous stuck-up responders to your post have said. People love to pretend they're "SO above that..."

Her response...ridiculous from a rational standpoint, especially given that she's a teacher.

But there's a much larger factor at play here: she's Thai.

If a given Thai has not studied abroad and acquired critical thinking skills (and this is the ONLY way that 90% of Thais can acquire such skills), then such a response is not surprising.

Thais who have only experienced what passes for education (and cultural upbringing) in Thailand are for the most part incapable of empathy: they cannot "put themselves in someone else's shoes" and imagine (logically) how someone at your level of Thai could have made such a mistake, so they have no option but to be mortally offended at you "wishing hell at her". Don't take it personally. But do expect this kind of reaction from many Thais when you make simple, seemingly understandable mistakes like this in the future.

[rgs2001uk]

Well, your spelling mistake was unfortunate but also understandable at your level of Thai, never mind what some of the self-righteous stuck-up responders to your post have said. People love to pretend they're "SO above that..."

Her response...ridiculous from a rational standpoint, especially given that she's a teacher.

But there's a much larger factor at play here: she's Thai.

If a given Thai has not studied abroad and acquired critical thinking skills (and this is the ONLY way that 90% of Thais can acquire such skills), then such a response is not surprising.

Thais who have only experienced what passes for education (and cultural upbringing) in Thailand are for the most part incapable of empathy: they cannot "put themselves in someone else's shoes" and imagine (logically) how someone at your level of Thai could have made such a mistake, so they have no option but to be mortally offended at you "wishing hell at her". Don't take it personally. But do expect this kind of reaction from many Thais when you make simple, seemingly understandable mistakes like this in the future.

Is she a Thai language teacher or just a normal learn by rote teacher?

But do expect this kind of reaction from many Thais when you make simple, seemingly understandable mistakes like this in the future.

My experiences differ from yours, in fact go to any Thai language school and you will hear the language being butchered on a daily basis with nothing like the reaction posted.

Where I live the Thais are very helpful and happy to hear a farang make an attempt at the language and will give help advice when required.

One of the problems I have encountered is, 3 different Thais giving 3 different answers when asked the same question.

Clusters anyone?

ror ruea or lor ling?

[Mole]

"Ajaan" and your reply doesn't sound like you're "so above" your so called average Thai????

[Confuscious]

Is she a Thai language teacher or just a normal learn by rote teacher?

She is teacher Science (Thai) at a local school in the countryside of Issan.

Teaches to Matthayom students.

I meet her in forum for exchanging langauges.

She wanted to learn English in exchange to teach Thai language.

HTH

[FiftyTwo]

The next message to send to her .....

DTok Narok, my penrai ...... go to hell, I don't care.

[Mole]

OP, how is your spoken Thai? Do you speak it reasonable well?

I still find it weird that you would write your words in such a peculiar way.

For example, first you simply just wrote

นรกมากๆ

Even if your intention was to write just น่ารักมากๆ one would usually write คุณน่ารักมากๆ only น่ารักมากๆ looks kinda weird.

Then you write คุณเป็นนรกมากๆ which is obviously grammatically wrong because in Thai one wouldn't have used เป็น, one would simply say คุณน่ารักมากๆ or if you want to use เป็น you must write it as คุณเป็นคนน่ารักมากๆ or alternatively คุณเป็นผู้หญิงน่ารักมากๆ

But to be fair, a foreigner with basic Thai knowledge may think the word คุณเป็น as "You are" as in "You are a cute girl".

That's why I was wondering if you are able to speak Thai relatively well, because if you are, I'm pretty confident you would never say "คุณเป็นน่ารักมากๆ"

My hunch is that she may think you were deliberately pulling some kind of prank on her by pretending to write it wrong like that and anticipating a humorous response from her. But she was smart enough to see through you and really didn't like this kind of "prank" at all.

Perhaps you should just sincerely apologize to her and tell her this won't happen again.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Mole

[A1Str8]

Yes the OP made a mistake so what. At least he keeps trying. The girl's english could use some improvement as well so I dont know what she is so worried about. By the way, the word he used by mistake is just another word in the dictionary.

[benalibina]

Reading this short thread, till now, i am surprised that SOME totally miss out on the OP's INTENTION. This especially after he has come back and explained more. Also that Ajaan stated his opinion about critical thinking, he got blamed. Some people have good experiences with thais who are "emphatic and can think critically" and some have bad experiences with thais who are " insular at thinking and totally lack empathy".

Cant stop me thinking that the people who have had, on a regular basis, mostly experiences with the latter kind of people, wished it would have been NOT their experience.

This especially in a situation where the said person is responsible, partly ofcourse, for the future of her pupils.

[FiftyTwo]

She might have got the idea you hang out in hooker bars and got offended.

Mak mak is very lo-so.

Edited October 6, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[Richard W]

Clusters anyone?

ror ruea or lor ling?

I think that the root cause in the incident is that นรก is just too far from น่ารัก for it even to have crossed the lady's mind that it was a typing error.

Now cluster simplification happens with most Thais when they are talking about food, and ร/ล confusion in speech is extremely common, so a Thai is likely to be considering those possibilities as they interpret what is said or written.

[Richard W]

I was happy knowing the meaning of Naarak but even happier knowing the meaning of Naarok....Because of your honest mistake, I've added a new word to my vocabulary.

I hope 'naarok' is just a typing error, because I don't see how 'naarok' can be นรก.

[Confuscious]

OP, how is your spoken Thai? Do you speak it reasonable well?

I still find it weird that you would write your words in such a peculiar way.

For example, first you simply just wrote

นรกมากๆ

Even if your intention was to write just น่ารักมากๆ one would usually write คุณน่ารักมากๆ only น่ารักมากๆ looks kinda weird.

I wanted to say to her "very lovely" which would translate as "น่ารักมากๆ"

Then you write คุณเป็นนรกมากๆ which is obviously grammatically wrong because in Thai one wouldn't have used เป็น, one would simply say คุณน่ารักมากๆ or if you want to use เป็น you must write it as คุณเป็นคนน่ารักมากๆ or alternatively คุณเป็นผู้หญิงน่ารักมากๆ

But to be fair, a foreigner with basic Thai knowledge may think the word คุณเป็น as "You are" as in "You are a cute girl".

That's why I was wondering if you are able to speak Thai relatively well, because if you are, I'm pretty confident you would never say "คุณเป็นน่ารักมากๆ"

I am learning to write and read Thai trough a language exchange website.

My level of speaking and listening Thai is at a very beginner level.

And she was aware of this.

My hunch is that she may think you were deliberately pulling some kind of prank on her by pretending to write it wrong like that and anticipating a humorous response from her. But she was smart enough to see through you and really didn't like this kind of "prank" at all.

Your guess is as good as mine or anybody else.

As this was a language exchange forum, I might as well think that as a teacher can speak and write English better as she does and dump her.

What you think about that?

Or is being affronted only allowed to Thai persons?

Perhaps you should just sincerely apologize to her and tell her this won't happen again.

Can't do that.

I tried already to apologize to her as you can see in my OP, but she didn't read anymore messages from me.

[Lara Alex]

omg, i'm sorry. it's a BIG mistake. good lesson to learn. don't give up.