What would you do?

[bendovid]

At your age you desperately need to build up your capital. You WILL need it later. Best advice is to work in the UK, or wherever you can work and save the most.

Your need for money in the future should outweigh any other consideration.

Take steps to have your gf with you. If it doesn't work out with her, don't worry...plenty more available. But, remember the law in the UK relating to what happens upon break-up of a relationship can potentially be ruinous to you financially. From that point of view it's better to leave her here and come to visit whenever you want, and/or just get her over on a Visitor visa occasionally.

"If it doesn't work out with her, don't worry...plenty more available."

Ah yes, the disposable, easily replaceable, wife. Charming.

Agreed! If it does not work out with my wife I have no intention of seeking another Thai wife...on the contrary I would probably be more likely to seek love in the UK without the difficulty of visas and everything else attached. I know what he means..plenty more fish in the sea but this post is about trying to stay with my love in the best way possible and make a future for us, not about ensuring I have a thai wife, whomever that may be..

[bendovid]

Recently I was reading a quote from Anthony Hopkins where he reckoned we all think too much.

The answer to this question is the same as to the others. What is your gut telling you to do?

When we arrived back in Aust after getting married in Bangkok in Sept 85, I had $500 left in my bank account, and that was it, all up. Nowhere to live as yet, I had to borrow money from the Navy to pay the bond and deposit on my flat. I had a 10 YO Step Daughter, and a son came along about 18 months later.

In the beginning Navy Welfare sent round a young 3rd Year Uni Student to help my wife settle in to her new country and show her the ropes, teach her how to catch a train, go shopping etc. After a few days she baled out as my wife ended up showing her around and sorting things out for the two of them. LOL.

It wasn't easy. But we managed.

We were just reminscing about those days last night.

I agree with that quote..i have never thought so much as in the last year i must admit..it;s because I have to think a lot to make this relationship work..there has been a lot to work out logistically and a lot of hard work to get myself back into UK and working to make a future for us both here..believe me it has been a headache! My gut tells me we should make a life here and not to go back to work in Bangkok but my head knows that she really wants me to come back to work in Thailand..at least she does presently-it is her trying to persuade me to come back and work there again that has caused all the confusion. She does not really want to come to the UK. She would much prefer me to go back..but my gut tells me no..get her here..give it a try first and she may well change her feelings and we may well have more chance to have secure and happy future..My gut also tells me that if she can't give it a try here then it may never work between us..

She wont come to UK, she does not perceive, love, you the way you want her to. She controls you and your emotions. Sorry to say. Step out while you can. Even if you go back to thailand it is most likely a matter of time before it will happen. Good luck. Only live once though !

Thanks for the positive remarks...not..how on earth do you know what love means to my wife having never met her before and how on earth do you believe she controls me and my emotions when on the contrary I am the one calling the shots presently, asking her to wait months on end in the village for me to sort out things in the UK etc...

[bendovid]

My opinion: Do not, under any circumstances or for any reason go back to live in the UK. Guaranteed you'll both be unhappy there.

Be together in Thailand. The two of you can figure out a solution so you can both live together in Thailand. Many others have done this and you can too.

Thank you for your advice. It is interesting to see both sides of the coin..and confusing also but I must admit I look out at the grey London and wonder if we really can be happy here

[bendovid]

Two things stand out. The OP's wife that has tried some small business but failed and is happy to park her arse at home in the boonies, lonely and bored. I am probably correct in assuming that it wasn't her money that set up these failed business attempts. It does not seem like she has the gumption to be self-sufficient in her home country so pretty much will be a train wreck in slow motion on a long-term UK stay. Not her fault; it's the patriarchal Thai society that breeds indolent youth and lack of personal responsibility in all genders.

The OP has a real good opportunity to build for a future IN THE UK. He is SAVING but the weather sucks and he is missing his partner. He has already tried working in the Big Mango and (like me) reckons that is a fast-track to nowhere career-wise. No future and no security. He was living HAND TO MOUTH but the weather was nice and he was with his wife. To consider chucking the former for some fanciful 'internet business' in paradise with a pretty gormless partner?

The excuse about the visa application being some sort of chore is a cop out for the OP's own insecurity about any commitment they BOTH need to make and the fears being railroaded into a clingy, heavy dependency relationship with a wife less than willing to contribute. If the wife finds it too challenging to apply for a UK visa in her homeland where everyone she deals with will speak her language (and the foreign husband, if he was there, barred from active involvement anyway), then I would guess her desire to try and forge a new life together is less ardent than the OP's.

She is not happy to park here arse as you put it. She is very bored and very lonely and keeps asking me to come back. Of course it was not her money that set up the failed business attempts. She has the gumption to be self-sufficient in her home country but if you know anything about Thailand, you will know how difficult it is in remote villages to make a living from a small clothes shop or restaurant, She was lucky to be making 2-300 baht a day when we had those businesses so it was me that said let's not bother..not her. She is not gormless u but thanks for the compliment..Have you ever gone through what is needed to get a visa having been away from your home country for over 2 years? I am not 'copping out'..it's a pain in the arse all the waiting and form filling etc etc. She wants very much to forge a life together but like me is getting fed up of all the waiting and dancing around..

[NBD]

The original situation almost perfectly mirrors mine, only I chose to stay in Bangkok, start a business and we had a daughter together. All well and good and I'm relatively happy in my life, but if I could wind the clock back three years knowing what I know now I would move, with wife, back to the UK.

As you say, better money, more stability, and (big consideration for me) better education without paying absurd amounts for it.

I wouldn't live in London (I did before), strong preference for a small village near to a larger city. I think ultimately it would easier for my wife to make friends and settle in there than it would be in London, where at best it would be a case of meeting other Thais. Of course that makes getting the good jobs harder, hence it's very difficult for me to now move back.

Probably still a part of the long term plan, but not something I can do at the drop of a hat anymore.

[bendovid]

Stay where you are in the UK...

Work 18 or so months and save as much as you can.

Let your wife visit you as and when you can, but keep it real.... International travel is expensive when you are saving.

Don't keep flying to LOS... It eats up your money.

When you have 2 or 3 Mil Baht, take a month off and come to LOS.

Look around for a business to start with that capital, if you can't find anything, at least you still have your job to go back to while you use the extended time to think up a good business. I can help you there, i have run a few pretty successful businesses here, it is the true land of opportunity. Making a very good living here with a small investment is simple. I see many good opportunities here. They are everywhere.

There you go..... sorted.

Thank you for your response. It would be useful to PM you to ask your suggestions around business/opportunity there?

[bendovid]

As a relatively young man, I would strongly recommend staying and working in the UK. Invite your Wife to join you and find out the answer to the key question. Does she like it or not. My experience is that many young Thai Ladies thoroughly enjoy the opportunity to travel and consider it a good "status point" to say to their Friends that they have, for instance, lived in the UK for X months/years. If she likes it, you are home and dry. If not, then you both need to have a serious chat and set out a plan. It might be you are going to work in the UK for three years, visiting her every three months or whatever. After three years your target is to have saved £150,000 or whatever. When you get back, you intend to buy land and build some houses for rent. You will of course have to do it in her name (and I know it is not strictly kosher, but hey we are in Thailand!). You now have not only your income to live on, but also your pension fund.................end of! I know I did it myself and very happy I am too!

Thank you for your advice..only problem with what you mentioned is there is no way I am going to manage to save anywhere near £150,000 in 3 years..it would take me around 10 years to save that much..by which time everything in Thailand may well have gone up considerably in price also..The only way I could get my hands on that sort of money in 3 years would be to sell my property and take the equity to thailand but I would be in deep shit if we split up for any reason and all my assets are in her name..

[bendovid]

My questions to the OP is:

What sort of accommodation does he have in the UK?

Does his Thai wife have a good command of the English language, both verbal and written?

Is the OP`s employment in the UK permanent and secure?

Does he belong to any pension of insurance schemes, have assets and any savings in the UK?

These are some of the questions that will be asked by the FCO as regards to their decision to allow his wife into the UK, because they have to ensure that foreigners will not need to make claims for welfare benefits later on.

My advice to the OP is; not to get his wife pregnant at this time, and sorry to say, that I cannot see much of a future for this relationship, because I have seen all this before, where a farang falls in love with a Thai girl, wants to take her back home with him, but has no or little collateral assets and mostly lives month by month on a pay packet.

As for the question; what would you do? I would just be realistic, that`s all.

Hi, I own a nice flat in central london that I currently rent out. Yes ,my wife has a good command of English. Yes, my employment is secure. No apart from my property which has around £120,000 equity in it I do not have a pension but I believe what I have just confirmed will make us eligible for the visa. Furthermore, I don't live month by month on a paypacket..I earn enough already to live nicely and save money every month also-I am currently taking home £3000 per month after tax+commission on top equalling another £500-1500. So our life here would certainly not be short of money..My concern in staying in the UK is not money or so much getting a visa..it is moreover that I am not sure she will like it here and the visa process is also giving us both a lot of stress personally and in our relationship so I sometimes think it would be better going back before more damage is done between us..she is very upset with waiting and waiting..and also wants me to go back there more than her coming here..The worries I have going back to Thailand are about money though and saving money for the future..it is there that I have to live month by month...not in the UK..

Then it appears that all your resources and means of income are in the UK.

You have 3 options:

If your wife is not prepared to settle with you in the UK, then you could give everything up, go to Thailand to be with your wife and live on a hope and a prayer that it all works out, including risking your future prospects.

Stay in the UK and make occasional visits to Thailand, staying with your wife periodically during a year.

Give your wife an ultimatum that if she will not join you in the UK, than the relationship is off.

Whatever you decide to do next, you do at your own risk and discretion, no one can advise you, as it`s your life or as we used to say in New York; it`s your funeral buddy.

What I said previous still stands, you have to be realistic and tackle the situation for what and how it is. Otherwise what else would you prefer to hear?

Thank you. Sound advice

[dao16]

As a relatively young man, I would strongly recommend staying and working in the UK. Invite your Wife to join you and find out the answer to the key question. Does she like it or not. My experience is that many young Thai Ladies thoroughly enjoy the opportunity to travel and consider it a good "status point" to say to their Friends that they have, for instance, lived in the UK for X months/years. If she likes it, you are home and dry. If not, then you both need to have a serious chat and set out a plan. It might be you are going to work in the UK for three years, visiting her every three months or whatever. After three years your target is to have saved £150,000 or whatever. When you get back, you intend to buy land and build some houses for rent. You will of course have to do it in her name (and I know it is not strictly kosher, but hey we are in Thailand!). You now have not only your income to live on, but also your pension fund.................end of! I know I did it myself and very happy I am too!

Thank you for your advice..only problem with what you mentioned is there is no way I am going to manage to save anywhere near £150,000 in 3 years..it would take me around 10 years to save that much..by which time everything in Thailand may well have gone up considerably in price also..The only way I could get my hands on that sort of money in 3 years would be to sell my property and take the equity to thailand but I would be in deep shit if we split up for any reason and all my assets are in her name..

Of course, if she works, too, she would be able to save all that/buy things you will need in Thailand, which can help. Maybe not help you get to 150k in 3 years, but you would be surprised how much your wife can add to your earnings if she is making an average (or slightly low salary) but you are taking care of what you would pay to be there alone anyway.

The other question that occurred to me....excuse me if I missed this in one of your previous postings....could you not rent out the property you have in the UK? If it is London, that is like a money-printing machine, depending on what it is. I know a few guys who do that and make plenty of money with it (and then they supplement it with other stuff, but it is the base of their money here). I know because they go back every once in a while to take care of things there. Renting out as opposed to selling is a thought, anyway.

[Thai at Heart]

My first reaction to this topic is that it must be somewhat scary for pensioners to see how expensive Thailand is getting and that a guy can just walk into a telephone sales job and make 100,000 a month. When I first came to Thailand in 2004 it seemed teachers made 30k baht a month now many seem to claim to make multiples of that. At this rates, the pensioners are going to have a very hard time maintaining themselves in Thailand on a fixed income.

I didn't just walk into a 100,000 a month telesales job..It took a lot of searching to find the opportunity and I was the best salesman there and so earnt more commission than the average employess-50,000 baht basic and the rest was commission..Having said that 100,000 a month in Bangkok is not a great deal when you factor in wanting to lay down roots in Thailand and have children etc..and opportunities to make more than 100,000 are sparse..

Exactly. Unless you can land an expatriate role with full benefits, 100k is not enough to build a family life to western expectations.

Better to stay in the UK, build a big nest egg. I would also say, that it may turn out to be the best thing to take your wife out of Thailand. I have been happily married for 13 years now, and having my wife meet my extended family and learn a bit about the uk allowed her to understand me a lot better.

[robertson468]

As a relatively young man, I would strongly recommend staying and working in the UK. Invite your Wife to join you and find out the answer to the key question. Does she like it or not. My experience is that many young Thai Ladies thoroughly enjoy the opportunity to travel and consider it a good "status point" to say to their Friends that they have, for instance, lived in the UK for X months/years. If she likes it, you are home and dry. If not, then you both need to have a serious chat and set out a plan. It might be you are going to work in the UK for three years, visiting her every three months or whatever. After three years your target is to have saved £150,000 or whatever. When you get back, you intend to buy land and build some houses for rent. You will of course have to do it in her name (and I know it is not strictly kosher, but hey we are in Thailand!). You now have not only your income to live on, but also your pension fund.................end of! I know I did it myself and very happy I am too!

Thank you for your advice..only problem with what you mentioned is there is no way I am going to manage to save anywhere near £150,000 in 3 years..it would take me around 10 years to save that much..by which time everything in Thailand may well have gone up considerably in price also..The only way I could get my hands on that sort of money in 3 years would be to sell my property and take the equity to thailand but I would be in deep shit if we split up for any reason and all my assets are in her name..

No, remember 50% would be yours on divorce. Don't know about others, but the vibes I get reading your contributions is you are not overly confident in your relationship? If that is the case, you obviously need to think hard and long. Interesting point made by another, the Thais seem to have a remarkable ability to find other Thais in their area and bond. I lived in a little Village in North Yorkshire and we used to do most of our shopping and socialising in York. Within a couple of weeks she had meet some Thai Ladies and we were all popping around to each others houses and that eased the strain no end. I think at the end of the day you need to asses what your Young Lady wants and will do to keep the relationship. Frankly I don't understand your problems with a UK Tourist Visa. She just needs some concrete reason to come back to Thailand, like a job, business, house, car and so on, plus you vouch to provide for her whilst she is in the UK and to undertake that she gets on the plane at the end of the Visa. I did it twice and it was no great hassle, even got her Mother and Niece to come on a visit. I think you are making problems that are not there. The hardest part is making a decision and going with it, perhaps not your forte? Good luck anyway.

[klubex99]

Stay where you are in the UK...

Work 18 or so months and save as much as you can.

Let your wife visit you as and when you can, but keep it real.... International travel is expensive when you are saving.

Don't keep flying to LOS... It eats up your money.

When you have 2 or 3 Mil Baht, take a month off and come to LOS.

Look around for a business to start with that capital, if you can't find anything, at least you still have your job to go back to while you use the extended time to think up a good business. I can help you there, i have run a few pretty successful businesses here, it is the true land of opportunity. Making a very good living here with a small investment is simple. I see many good opportunities here. They are everywhere.

There you go..... sorted.

Thank you for your response. It would be useful to PM you to ask your suggestions around business/opportunity there?

Sure.... Feel free to PM me any time you like.

I can even talk you through my newest project and it should give you some very good and solid ideas.

Thailand is a sinch to do business, there is so much missing from here that you could easily fill in the gaps and line your pockets at the same time, and your current skills are great for expansion.

[bendovid]

2 years together is not long my friend... it does not guarantee you know her very well, and like many have said above, you marry and you will risk losing 50% or more of everything you are working towards, at least if you marry in the Uk you will.

Also all the loop holes they make you jump through, its not easy and well... here you are...

I went through all the same dilemmas as you many years ago, then i watched my father's pension get trashed from him and he has to work an extra 6 years until retirement, then the recession back in the UK.

I am glad i stayed in Bangkok, 100k a month if you are careful still means you can save 1000 pounds a month - i dont see many folk doing that who live in the UK these days, its not mega money no, but how much do you spend in london compared to here? how much can you actually save in London after expenses?

If you set up some compound interest on 1000 pounds a month, its not a bad pension alternative and you have more freedom, more time to spend with your GF, more time to enjoy Thailand while you are still relatively young.

Lets say you retire at 60, you will have saved about 250,000 pounds (not including pay rise and interest rates so ofcourse much more) Add some compound interest rates to that and you will have a lot more, Retire in Thailand and you should be okay.

Also, think about this... When i came to thailand it was 75 baht to the pound...

Now when i buy Pounds with my Baht, I'm laughing! The UK may fall even more and the baht stronger, the money you make in Thailand is not so weak anymore.

Who knows where the pound will end up in 20 years, all i know is Asia is rising and the West falling,.

I met my Thai GF 10 years ago - I still have NOT married her - I make it very clear that until the THAI GOV gives me the same rights as she gets in my country, i refuse to marry any Thai. Also i dont agree with marriage that much, afterall its got nothing to do with LOVE and its just a legal mess. no benefits that i can see - the only time i will ever consider marriage is when Children are involved, then it may have its vices. I dont expect 90% of people reading this to agree with me, but im happy in my choices and have watched so many divorcees lose everything, so hey...

By advise: dont follow societies burdons, you need to get married! you need a pension! you need to do this and do that etc.

Use your brain, most of the above have no benefits to us but benefit others or a system.

Save your money and learn about compound interest and investments, and avoid potential problems with Thai'

Hi, thank you for your response. I can actually save at least £1000 per month in the UK and that will increase as time goes on but in Bangkok, from experience I don't see myself saving that much..it is not cheap there unless you live from street food and never go out much..my wife and I do like a nice quality of life and not having to watch the pennies every minute. With regards to marriage-a little late as we are already married in Thailand. I do appreciate your comments that 2 years is not a long time to know someone very well but having spent most of that living together 24/7, I do know her pretty well and perhaps better than I would if I had dated a UK lady for a couple of years without living together so intensely..I thank you for your advice about the financials-investments and compound interests I do need to learn and think about more than focussing on what can often be redundant pension packages. My only other concern though is that the 100k a month job I could return to in Bangkok will not last forever and there are not a lot of jobs available in Thailand to earn that much as and when it does finish or the company moves on..so I could well save £1000 per mth if frugal but not necessarily for 20 odd years leaving me with a nice pension pot at the end..there will be many twists and turns to navigate to make that happen and to an extent they will be totally out of my control. Here in the UK, there is much more chance I can move quickly into another well paid job if my current one ends for any reason, Thank you again

[bendovid]

The original situation almost perfectly mirrors mine, only I chose to stay in Bangkok, start a business and we had a daughter together. All well and good and I'm relatively happy in my life, but if I could wind the clock back three years knowing what I know now I would move, with wife, back to the UK.

As you say, better money, more stability, and (big consideration for me) better education without paying absurd amounts for it.

I wouldn't live in London (I did before), strong preference for a small village near to a larger city. I think ultimately it would easier for my wife to make friends and settle in there than it would be in London, where at best it would be a case of meeting other Thais. Of course that makes getting the good jobs harder, hence it's very difficult for me to now move back.

Probably still a part of the long term plan, but not something I can do at the drop of a hat anymore.

Hi, thank you for your response. Out of interest, what business did you start and roughly how much do you make from it every month?

[bendovid]

As a relatively young man, I would strongly recommend staying and working in the UK. Invite your Wife to join you and find out the answer to the key question. Does she like it or not. My experience is that many young Thai Ladies thoroughly enjoy the opportunity to travel and consider it a good "status point" to say to their Friends that they have, for instance, lived in the UK for X months/years. If she likes it, you are home and dry. If not, then you both need to have a serious chat and set out a plan. It might be you are going to work in the UK for three years, visiting her every three months or whatever. After three years your target is to have saved £150,000 or whatever. When you get back, you intend to buy land and build some houses for rent. You will of course have to do it in her name (and I know it is not strictly kosher, but hey we are in Thailand!). You now have not only your income to live on, but also your pension fund.................end of! I know I did it myself and very happy I am too!

Thank you for your advice..only problem with what you mentioned is there is no way I am going to manage to save anywhere near £150,000 in 3 years..it would take me around 10 years to save that much..by which time everything in Thailand may well have gone up considerably in price also..The only way I could get my hands on that sort of money in 3 years would be to sell my property and take the equity to thailand but I would be in deep shit if we split up for any reason and all my assets are in her name..

Of course, if she works, too, she would be able to save all that/buy things you will need in Thailand, which can help. Maybe not help you get to 150k in 3 years, but you would be surprised how much your wife can add to your earnings if she is making an average (or slightly low salary) but you are taking care of what you would pay to be there alone anyway.

The other question that occurred to me....excuse me if I missed this in one of your previous postings....could you not rent out the property you have in the UK? If it is London, that is like a money-printing machine, depending on what it is. I know a few guys who do that and make plenty of money with it (and then they supplement it with other stuff, but it is the base of their money here). I know because they go back every once in a while to take care of things there. Renting out as opposed to selling is a thought, anyway.

to

Hi, thanks for the sound advice. I do already rent my place out but the money I get from it basically covers the buy to let mortgage so is just protecting my investment rather than giving me extra disposable income..

[bendovid]

Stay where you are in the UK...

Work 18 or so months and save as much as you can.

Let your wife visit you as and when you can, but keep it real.... International travel is expensive when you are saving.

Don't keep flying to LOS... It eats up your money.

When you have 2 or 3 Mil Baht, take a month off and come to LOS.

Look around for a business to start with that capital, if you can't find anything, at least you still have your job to go back to while you use the extended time to think up a good business. I can help you there, i have run a few pretty successful businesses here, it is the true land of opportunity. Making a very good living here with a small investment is simple. I see many good opportunities here. They are everywhere.

There you go..... sorted.

Thank you for your response. It would be useful to PM you to ask your suggestions around business/opportunity there?

Sure.... Feel free to PM me any time you like.

I can even talk you through my newest project and it should give you some very good and solid ideas.

Thailand is a sinch to do business, there is so much missing from here that you could easily fill in the gaps and line your pockets at the same time, and your current skills are great for expansion.

Thank you so much. Will PM later. Always good to hear ideas..

[bendovid]

i'm 66 y.o now and very happy to have a very good pension because of working in EU. So there is not any option to work in Thailand with no future of any pension later. Don't fool yourself.

Your wife/GF can come whenever it's possible.

Thank you for writing. I dont understand what you mean. Do you mean it is not possible to work in Thailand and have a very good pension/savings later and that I should stay working in the EU?

[NBD]

The original situation almost perfectly mirrors mine, only I chose to stay in Bangkok, start a business and we had a daughter together. All well and good and I'm relatively happy in my life, but if I could wind the clock back three years knowing what I know now I would move, with wife, back to the UK.

 

As you say, better money, more stability, and (big consideration for me) better education without paying absurd amounts for it.

 

I wouldn't live in London (I did before), strong preference for a small village near to a larger city. I think ultimately it would easier for my wife to make friends and settle in there than it would be in London, where at best it would be a case of meeting other Thais. Of course that makes getting the good jobs harder, hence it's very difficult for me to now move back.

 

Probably still a part of the long term plan, but not something I can do at the drop of a hat anymore.

Hi, thank you for your response. Out of interest, what business did you start and roughly how much do you make from it every month?

I take an 90k base and some commission depending on the month. Comfortable but not flash.

As I see it what's cheap here is bars, weekends away and rent. I'm over the bars of Nana and Cowboy. The wine joints and import beer houses are good but London plus prices.

Weekends away with a baby tend to be less frequent and more stressful. Where previously I'd throw my stuff in the car and sew where I end up. Now it has to be planned and booked beforehand and there's no dossing in a beach hut.

Rent is a bargain but you get what you pay for. For a cheap roof over your head it is unbeatable and for a centrallish condo with all the amenities it is tolerable. Now my priorities are more towards a nice garden, lack of stray dogs etc it quite quickly gets comparable to the UK.

Then try sitting in traffic for an hour each way to get to work, running between meetings in a suit and spending weekends locked in your soi because the traffic to the nearby shopping mall is not moving and I really have no love for Bangkok at all.

Of course the grass is always greener, and many of those gripes could apply equally to London. However if I was banking £1000 a month and still had enough for a week holiday here 3-4 times a year that would be preferable to me.

[NBD]

Possible 3rd alternative - have you thought about Hong Kong or Singapore? Good salaries, low tax and much closer to Thailand. Best or worst of both worlds depending on your point of view.

I seriously considered HK but eventually decided that even double my current salary wouldn't give me the life I wanted there.

[bendovid]

The original situation almost perfectly mirrors mine, only I chose to stay in Bangkok, start a business and we had a daughter together. All well and good and I'm relatively happy in my life, but if I could wind the clock back three years knowing what I know now I would move, with wife, back to the UK.

As you say, better money, more stability, and (big consideration for me) better education without paying absurd amounts for it.

I wouldn't live in London (I did before), strong preference for a small village near to a larger city. I think ultimately it would easier for my wife to make friends and settle in there than it would be in London, where at best it would be a case of meeting other Thais. Of course that makes getting the good jobs harder, hence it's very difficult for me to now move back.

Probably still a part of the long term plan, but not something I can do at the drop of a hat anymore.

Hi, thank you for your response. Out of interest, what business did you start and roughly how much do you make from it every month?

I take an 90k base and some commission depending on the month. Comfortable but not flash.

As I see it what's cheap here is bars, weekends away and rent. I'm over the bars of Nana and Cowboy. The wine joints and import beer houses are good but London plus prices.

Weekends away with a baby tend to be less frequent and more stressful. Where previously I'd throw my stuff in the car and sew where I end up. Now it has to be planned and booked beforehand and there's no dossing in a beach hut.

Rent is a bargain but you get what you pay for. For a cheap roof over your head it is unbeatable and for a centrallish condo with all the amenities it is tolerable. Now my priorities are more towards a nice garden, lack of stray dogs etc it quite quickly gets comparable to the UK.

Then try sitting in traffic for an hour each way to get to work, running between meetings in a suit and spending weekends locked in your soi because the traffic to the nearby shopping mall is not moving and I really have no love for Bangkok at all.

Of course the grass is always greener, and many of those gripes could apply equally to London. However if I was banking £1000 a month and still had enough for a week holiday here 3-4 times a year that would be preferable to me.

Thanks for your reply. It is good to hear from someone with a similar experience/situation. What do you actually do for business? I agree that life in bangkok is not ideal..that's really why I came back here as I love Thailand but Bangkok is where the work is at and as you say to have a relatively nice life there is comparable in cost to the UK. I also grew so sick of the traffic and pollution there and looking to the future did not see it as a place I wanted my kids to grow up in..If there was a way to make a good living in another part of Thailand, it would be an easier decision to return..so many people have said to me, why did you leave paradise to come back here? But Bangkok is far from paradise and to go away too many weekends just eats up the finances so one does tend to be on lockdown in their soi staring out the window at all the traffic and wondering what they are doing..Is your wife happy there?

[bendovid]

Possible 3rd alternative - have you thought about Hong Kong or Singapore? Good salaries, low tax and much closer to Thailand. Best or worst of both worlds depending on your point of view.

I seriously considered HK but eventually decided that even double my current salary wouldn't give me the life I wanted there.

have thought about HK and other nearby countries but my wife is more averse to moving to other countries in asia than the UK and if I was based there coming to and from to visit her it would still not solve the problem of us staying together to have a normal family life as husband and wife. thank you for your suggestion though and thinking 'outside the box'

[thaibeachlovers]

If you have enough income to stay in Thailand, stay. If you take her to the UK, you risk her becoming just like the women some of us come here to get away from.

Can you extrapolate further on this? While moving to the UK from Thailand will be no cake walk I don't have a clue which characteristics you believe she may inherit.

In some cases, Thai women living in a western country will become like a western woman. I can only speak for myself, but I didn't marry a Thai woman for her to become like a western woman. I'm not going to get into which characteristics of western women I don't like, because those have been well discussed on this forum in the past.

Edited October 7, 2013 by thaibeachlovers

[NBD]

Wife is reasonably happy here but Bangkok isn't her idea of fun either. Quite keen on moving somewhere else at some point.

Definitely agree about the idea of making a decent living elsewhere in Thailand but 50 odd million Thais are trying to do the same. It isn't easy, and everyone I know has the same dillema. Some engineering types etc manage to get work in Rayong, Ayuttaya or elsewhere but sales is nearly all Bangkok based. Never met anyone who has really cracked it without serious investment or rotation work. And plenty of serious investment has ended up gone wrong too!

[farang000999]

My first reaction to this topic is that it must be somewhat scary for pensioners to see how expensive Thailand is getting and that a guy can just walk into a telephone sales job and make 100,000 a month. When I first came to Thailand in 2004 it seemed teachers made 30k baht a month now many seem to claim to make multiples of that. At this rates, the pensioners are going to have a very hard time maintaining themselves in Thailand on a fixed income.

I didn't just walk into a 100,000 a month telesales job..It took a lot of searching to find the opportunity and I was the best salesman there and so earnt more commission than the average employess-50,000 baht basic and the rest was commission..Having said that 100,000 a month in Bangkok is not a great deal when you factor in wanting to lay down roots in Thailand and have children etc..and opportunities to make more than 100,000 are sparse..

I understand what you are saying and was not trying to belittle you and I am sure that there was a lot of skill and effort put in to make 100k a month in telephone sales but the point still remains that when I first came here in 2004 and was reading various blogs and Thai Visa people would literally get flamed or accused of lying when they claimed to make 100k a month. Now I honestly I have seen comments and blog posts from teachers making 90k a month plus benefits, plus private tutoring plus they get so much time off etc. For anyone, myself included, whose income is coming from outside Thailand, for example in the USA where home prices are the same place they were 15 years ago in some areas of the country, or a pensioner whose income is tied solely to the inflation rate of his home country, this is troubling. Bangkok specifically seems to be going through a period of uncontrollable growth.

Personally, I think you should take your wife to the UK. Getting a marriage visa despite how complicated it looks is very easy. You have no children. It will not be that hard. I am sure there are Asian groceries about. Yes, many of the women she may meet are going to be "queen bee" types, there was a topic on Thai Visa started by David48 I believe on this topic, use the search feature... but if your wife is willing to WORK she can easily find a job I am sure and your two combined salaries will have you building a nice nest egg to retire into rural Thailand in a number of years. Best of luck.

Edited October 7, 2013 by farang000999

[NBD]

Not all teachers are equal. It was starting salaries of 32k plus housing when I looked into it in Isan in 2009. Fresh off the plane. 90k for a qualified, experienced teacher in an international school, why not?

It's also important to try to be objective. When I first came here I was single and bumming about. 200 baht beach huts, 30 baht khao pad, another 200 baht of leos and away I went. I could live fine on 1000thb a day, including a couple of beers in a bar. Get bored and see how far a 200thb train ticket takes me.

Now I have a wife and kid in tow, I drive, I eat better, stay in a cleaner place with AC. It is still cheap in European terms but not the live like a king for £20 a day cheap that enticed me in the first place. Though that is still there.

For comparison I visited France earlier this year:

€89 for a budget motel near the airport. €70 for a taxi to the station, €110 for train tickets to where my parents stay. €20 menu is the budget option in the local restaurant. Nice enough but not flash.

[bendovid]

My first reaction to this topic is that it must be somewhat scary for pensioners to see how expensive Thailand is getting and that a guy can just walk into a telephone sales job and make 100,000 a month. When I first came to Thailand in 2004 it seemed teachers made 30k baht a month now many seem to claim to make multiples of that. At this rates, the pensioners are going to have a very hard time maintaining themselves in Thailand on a fixed income.

I didn't just walk into a 100,000 a month telesales job..It took a lot of searching to find the opportunity and I was the best salesman there and so earnt more commission than the average employess-50,000 baht basic and the rest was commission..Having said that 100,000 a month in Bangkok is not a great deal when you factor in wanting to lay down roots in Thailand and have children etc..and opportunities to make more than 100,000 are sparse..

I understand what you are saying and was not trying to belittle you and I am sure that there was a lot of skill and effort put in to make 100k a month in telephone sales but the point still remains that when I first came here in 2004 and was reading various blogs and Thai Visa people would literally get flamed or accused of lying when they claimed to make 100k a month. Now I honestly I have seen comments and blog posts from teachers making 90k a month plus benefits, plus private tutoring plus they get so much time off etc. For anyone, myself included, whose income is coming from outside Thailand, for example in the USA where home prices are the same place they were 15 years ago in some areas of the country, or a pensioner whose income is tied solely to the inflation rate of his home country, this is troubling. Bangkok specifically seems to be going through a period of uncontrollable growth.

Personally, I think you should take your wife to the UK. Getting a marriage visa despite how complicated it looks is very easy. You have no children. It will not be that hard. I am sure there are Asian groceries about. Yes, many of the women she may meet are going to be "queen bee" types, there was a topic on Thai Visa started by David48 I believe on this topic, use the search feature... but if your wife is willing to WORK she can easily find a job I am sure and your two combined salaries will have you building a nice nest egg to retire into rural Thailand in a number of years. Best of luck.

Thank you and yes Bangkok and Thailand prices are increasing dramatically. It is still definitely cheaper to retire there than the west though, especially if you get out of Bangkok but I would imagine it would be hard to live a decent retirement on less than 50k per month and in Bangkok probably more like 75-80k per mth..Soon thais will be coming to the west to retire! The world is changing!! Best wishes

[ItsPhuketTownNotCity]

Bendovid,

Some very oood comments here on this thread. You don't have to make an either/or choice now and before children come into the picture. One yellow flag is that you and your wife like to eat out at restaurants and don't like to count pennies (or baht coins) - just getting by financially in Thailand won't work for you.

My advice is to formulate a 2 or 3 year plan with budget and outcome, and stick to it. Cut your spending down to bare minimum. Stay in the UK and pay off your flat in London as much as you can so that it can be a source of income if/when you return to Thailand. Have your wife with you as much as you can. Figure out an online business (one that you can eventually do from Thailand) and get that up and running. Then see where you are at the end of your plan and then make the next move based on the results.

4 years ago, I got laid off from my regional SE Asian job while I was living in Phuket with my Thai wife and 2 kids. My choices were move back to Singapore (or to Bangkok or Hong Kong) for work, or move back to the midwest U.S. near my family. I chose the latter with a 4 year plan to move back to Thailand, but that has been shattered as my wife has her group of Thai friends and my almost-teenage kids are very happy with their lives. Yes, it's my responsibility to raise them through university but deep down there is a part of me that is completely miserable: I spent most of the last 35 years living outside of the U.S., and living in my hometown in midwest U.S. is one of my worst nightmares. Family aside, I absolutely despise living here.

Don't underestimate how Westernized your Thai wife will become livng in the U.K. as one other poster has mentioned. If part of your love for her is what she is as a Thai living in Thailand, then you might not like the outcome if she becomes Westernized (and, in my wife's case, gains 25 pounds (12 kilos)).

To repeat: children aren't in the picture yet so still have 2 options. Groom the remote business so that you can do it from Thailand and pay off your flat asap so that you will have a small source of income no matter what.

As other posters have said, Asia has become the center of the world. The U.S. is rapidly becoming a third world country (probably the same in the U.K.). Where do you want your children to grow up and where is the best place for them to have their families?

[jingjoke]

In #34 you state: ‘I earn enough already to live nicely and save money every month’

Yet you then state: ‘I do not have savings to fall back on’ …

But in Thailand you were making/ can make 100,000B which is 2/3rds more than what farang teachers or many pensioners make.

What exactly do you do/ have you done with your money?

#75 ‘…already rent my place out but the money I get from it basically covers the buy to let mortgage so is just protecting my investment rather than giving me extra disposable income….”

So where and how do you live in England where even a cuppa needs one to secure a small loan?

You have been given a great deal of sage advice by folks trying to be true to your situation but you are not being on the up-and-up as I follow your maze of ‘on again-off again savings’ and ‘Baht100K this and Multi Pounds that’, an expensive house you ‘own’ but ‘don’t own’ and wistful longing for Thailand but not Bkk where on 100K monthly you went on numerous weekend trips yet were still forced to stare out windows at the world passing you by.

Yes I’d say the world is passing you by.

What would you do? -Best sit down and get you act together, laddie, and soon; then come back and lay out what your real situation is, and why you are seeking help.

Edited October 7, 2013 by jingjoke

[NBD]

As other posters have said, Asia has become the center of the world. The U.S. is rapidly becoming a third world country (probably the same in the U.K.). Where do you want your children to grow up and where is the best place for them to have their families?

A bit of hyperbole there. Even with sluggish to no growth in the west and continued strong growth in Asia (2 big assumptions) it would take decades for Thailand to reach the levels of wealth of western countries. And there are already signs that neither assumption will hold.

At risk of getting a bit sidetracked, Thailand (and elsewhere in Asia) still has many problems preventing it from functioning nearly as well.

Then there's the actual growing up - it's easy enough to get impressive growth figures from a low starting point, moving agricultural labour into factories etc. It's quite another to consistently achieve good figures when you don't have cheap labour.

There's a saying that "China is the future, and it always will be" which rings quite true.

In 50 years perhaps but in the time my daughter ia growing up there's still a lot to be said for the west.

[Beetlejuice]

My questions to the OP is:

What sort of accommodation does he have in the UK?

Does his Thai wife have a good command of the English language, both verbal and written?

Is the OP`s employment in the UK permanent and secure?

Does he belong to any pension of insurance schemes, have assets and any savings in the UK?

These are some of the questions that will be asked by the FCO as regards to their decision to allow his wife into the UK, because they have to ensure that foreigners will not need to make claims for welfare benefits later on.

My advice to the OP is; not to get his wife pregnant at this time, and sorry to say, that I cannot see much of a future for this relationship, because I have seen all this before, where a farang falls in love with a Thai girl, wants to take her back home with him, but has no or little collateral assets and mostly lives month by month on a pay packet.

As for the question; what would you do? I would just be realistic, that`s all.

Hi, I own a nice flat in central london that I currently rent out. Yes ,my wife has a good command of English. Yes, my employment is secure. No apart from my property which has around £120,000 equity in it I do not have a pension but I believe what I have just confirmed will make us eligible for the visa. Furthermore, I don't live month by month on a paypacket..I earn enough already to live nicely and save money every month also-I am currently taking home £3000 per month after tax+commission on top equalling another £500-1500. So our life here would certainly not be short of money..My concern in staying in the UK is not money or so much getting a visa..it is moreover that I am not sure she will like it here and the visa process is also giving us both a lot of stress personally and in our relationship so I sometimes think it would be better going back before more damage is done between us..she is very upset with waiting and waiting..and also wants me to go back there more than her coming here..The worries I have going back to Thailand are about money though and saving money for the future..it is there that I have to live month by month...not in the UK..

Then it appears that all your resources and means of income are in the UK.

You have 3 options:

If your wife is not prepared to settle with you in the UK, then you could give everything up, go to Thailand to be with your wife and live on a hope and a prayer that it all works out, including risking your future prospects.

Stay in the UK and make occasional visits to Thailand, staying with your wife periodically during a year.

Give your wife an ultimatum that if she will not join you in the UK, than the relationship is off.

Whatever you decide to do next, you do at your own risk and discretion, no one can advise you, as it`s your life or as we used to say in New York; it`s your funeral buddy.

What I said previous still stands, you have to be realistic and tackle the situation for what and how it is. Otherwise what else would you prefer to hear?

Thank you. Sound advice

I`ll throw some more into this:

Firstly I am not trying to be a know it all and believe I know better than you. I am answering your question: What would you do?

I met my Thai wife over 30 years ago. Together and later on with our kids, we lived in America, the UK and at times in Spain and finally after we built up some decent savings, a pension and were well established in our lives, we retired here to lovely Chiang Mai, Thailand at age 50 because by then the time was right, we had no worries. And that`s what it`s all about, doing the rights things, making the right moves, at the right time.

Home to us was anywhere we could earn a living and be together as a family, nothing else mattered. It was amazing just how quickly we all managed to adapt to our host countries.

It`s all about living your life where you have the best chances of prospering most and although I love my wife, there still had to be some compromise in the relationship, and before I ever agreed to anything, I used to think and still do think, what`s in it for me also? This is what marriage is suppose to be all about, compromise, not a one sided sacrifice. If a girl really loves you, she will go anywhere with you, to any place, at any time.

In my opinion many Thai women have no problems adapting to life abroad, thousands upon thousands of Thais migrate to other countries every year and most make a success of their new lives abroad. It all depends on the person`s frame of mind and how much they want to be with you.