Proposed Zoning For Chiang Mai

[chanchao]

In the most recent reports I read about the new closing hours for night-spots inside and outside 'entertainment-zones' it was mentioned that Chiang Mai didn't have zones yet.

In my mind it would also be quite difficult to establish zones, given how incredibly spread-out the nightlife is. Like Nimmanhaemin road has plenty of pubs and clubs, but then it's also very much a residential area, AND also a route to get to the Royal Palace from the airport. Then there's Chiang Mai Land.. a residential housing estate, and a bit away from everything else. Think about how dotted around all the night spots are, and that's not even getting into the tourist oriented nightlife around Thapae and the Night Bazar. You could think of the Night Bazar as becoming a zone, but there aren't any nightspot operators there who have any kind of serious influence.. it's mostly little bars. (And the latest has it that these will have to move anyway, in favour of a parking lot for the Dusit Group who took over Chiang Inn Hotel)

Somehow it wouldn't surprise me if an area like that huge plot of land near Carrefour and Phayap would end up being a zone.. Or just any undeveloped area owned by influential people. Imagine the money they'd make leasing it to nightlife operators!

So, does anyone know what is going to be decided? Or have an opinion of your own about nightlife or closing times?

Note that personally I'm not among the people who seem to think this is a matter of imminent mortal danger to life as we know it. Quite the contratry actually, but it's still an interesting topic to discuss also from a local Chiang Mai point of view.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[lamphun]

Last year there was a rumour that the entertainment zone was going to be the CBP round the German Brewery and a small soi with no shops in front of the Star Inn. Crazy and came to nothing.

However last night as I sat with some other disgusting old drunks watching the traffic at Rydges beer garden, I heard the latest rumour that a certain family was buying heavily in the Loi Kroh area.

Call me cynical but.....

[muuyai]

From a bar owner, I heard one zone will include the Night Bazaar starting from the Chiang Mai Saloon on Loi Kroa. He's so sure he and friends bought spaces in the Muay Thai boxing ring area on Loi Kroa (which will be filled from the Night bazaar beer bars which all lost their lease last month). From the Chiang Mai Mail, I read from Payap U to City Hall will be a zone.

Generally speaking, there does not seem to be any consensus by bar owners on what exactly the new laws cover. For example, I've heard if a bar sells food, the restaurant laws (open until 1AM) apply. But another bar owner says no, if a restaurant sells whiskey, they must use the 6PM -12 AM times. A Massage shop owner seems to think it only applies to Massage Parlours selling sex on the side. And all this confusion even after reading the actual law. Worst, I'd say at least half the falang residents and Thai people I've met don't even know about the new closing times.

The probable police payoffs that normally would occur will be multiplied by the fact no one seems to know the actual rules and will break them unwittingly. I'd not be surprised if even the police don't know what they are and make them up to suit their needs.

All we can hope for is that it will be a short lived law.

Muu Yai

[Guest The Judge]

I also don't really care, but if one were to drive out along the first ring road, one will find hundreds of little bars that have sprung up in the last 12 months or so. All Thai so likely reasonably good fun.

I saw Rydges beer garden advertised the other day. I am not keen on drinking in town at night any way, but would be interested about that since it looks as though it is well run.

I assume they do food as well as beer?

[et33.com]

if you drink / you will manage to find a hole to feel the urge / if you don't drink / who cares my friend / after all / you can go look for """private parties""" to attend right ?? / of course you pay your share for food and drinks... and...

[pbnomad]

The zoning laws will only apply to those bars that do not want to pay the local police to turn their head,just like their doing now.

[lamphun]

If th Zone is the middle ring road from the back of Payap all the way past the new prison (very apt) to city hall, I might ask what about the drink driving campaign. The only way to get to this area is to drive as it's miles out of town.

Should be lots of fun at two in the morning with lots of racing drunks.

[cheshiregent]

the best thing they can do is close all the girly bars down move them to an area on the outskirts of town

then normal decent people can enjoy a night out with out hello sexy man i go with you the kind of tourist we get in cm are less and less inclined

to be after that kind of thing in resent years

the scum mostly goes down south thank god as they are the kind of unwanted trash that spoil it for the rest of us

then the few we do get can go to the new areas and drink them selfs into a gutter and get a hooker

they are the ones that course all the problem of noise and fighting so let them do it in there own little hog heaven

loi kroa road is a boil on the backside of c/m and needs cleaning up anyway so lets start with that

walking down it is like being in a cheep zombie movie with a clp of lady boy extras ready to pounce on you do people on holiday

that have saved up all year to come to thailand really want to see that ?

[Raindancer]

the best thing they can do is close all the girly bars down move them to an area on the outskirts of town

then normal decent people can enjoy a night out with out hello sexy man i go with you the kind of tourist we get in cm are less and less inclined

to be after that kind of thing in resent years

the scum mostly goes down south thank god as they are the kind of unwanted trash that spoil it for the rest of us

then the few we do get can go to the new areas and drink them selfs into a gutter and get a hooker

they are the ones that course all the problem of noise and fighting so let them do it in there own little hog heaven

loi kroa road is a boil on the backside of c/m and needs cleaning up anyway so lets start with that

walking down it is like being in a cheep zombie movie with a clp of lady boy extras ready to pounce on you do people on holiday

that have saved up all year to come to thailand really want to see that ?

At last a sensible and pragmatic response.. Why are so many on this forum hooked on drinking and bar girls. Get a life!! Or go back to your home country. You arrogant people who come here with money to blow give normal farang residents a bad name. But then again it depends on your morals of life or indeed why you came here originally. Thai people are ok, but they need to get by in life. However too many male people from the western world just come her to denigrate the Thai woman and look for cheap sex and then complain when they " appear to get ripped off"

What on earth do you expect when these people without the western social fabric of network or support take you for a ride for your money.

Wake up to the real world. Many Asian countries and especially women have to make do with their lot ...And Asian women are past masters at making a Farang feel good about himself and his loss of ego. And only because of the western feminist world of equality, where women have dictated the pace over the past thirty or forty years and kept men at a lower rung of life..

So much for modernity and yet western women are the first to complain about their spouses and their apparent failures. So women of the West...why is that when you meet a western man that attracted you in the first place because of his character, that as soon as you get ,married , you want to change it?

Sorry a little of topic but it fits in with this topic in an abstract sense and may help some of those disillusioned men who come here for the wrong reason.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Raindancer

[Thakkar]

the best thing they can do is close all the girly bars down move them to an area on the outskirts of town

then normal decent people can enjoy a night out with out hello sexy man i go with you the kind of tourist we get in cm are less and less inclined

to be after that kind of thing in resent years

the scum mostly goes down south thank god as they are the kind of unwanted trash that spoil it for the rest of us

then the few we do get can go to the new areas and drink them selfs into a gutter and get a hooker

they are the ones that course all the problem of noise and fighting so let them do it in there own little hog heaven

loi kroa road is a boil on the backside of c/m and needs cleaning up anyway so lets start with that

walking down it is like being in a cheep zombie movie with a clp of lady boy extras ready to pounce on you do people on holiday

that have saved up all year to come to thailand really want to see that ?

Most Decidedly!

Anyone going on holiday these days, especially if they've saved all year for it, will have studied their destination on the web prior to departure. They will know what to expect when walking down Loi Kroh at night. If they are there, what they see is what they are there to see.

I've lived seven years in CM and not once have I walked down Loi Kroh after 6pm because I have no interest in what I know I will see. Loi Kroh leaves me alone as long as I leave it alone.

[slapout]

Chiang Mai, like most cities around the world is a mishmash of the old and the new. Cities should be looked at as you would the super stores of the western world. Not everyone has the same taste, thus the aisles are arranged for the customers convenience while also attracting him/her to any possible new choice, which is on offer.

I can think of at least 3 ways to get to the same place that the mentioned street, (referred to as a boil) goes to. I like to think of this as character of the city and really do not understand those with such a narrow mind set, who move here and want to change it for their personal preference/attitude, due to some part they dislike.

[naboo]

the best thing they can do is close all the girly bars down move them to an area on the outskirts of town then normal decent people can enjoy a night out with out hello sexy man i go with you the kind of tourist we get in cm are less and less inclined to be after that kind of thing in resent years the scum mostly goes down south thank god as they are the kind of unwanted trash that spoil it for the rest of us then the few we do get can go to the new areas and drink them selfs into a gutter and get a hooker

they are the ones that course all the problem of noise and fighting so let them do it in there own little hog heaven

loi kroa road is a boil on the backside of c/m and needs cleaning up anyway so lets start with that walking down it is like being in a cheep zombie movie with a clp of lady boy extras ready to pounce on you do people on holiday that have saved up all year to come to thailand really want to see that ?

and in another topic you wrote

sounds to me like the best thing you can do is talk him out of the whole thing just point him in the direction of a half decent looking bar girl slap him on the back say good luck

let her ride the life out of him job done

I'm confused as to what you want. Perhaps just a bite?

[cocopops]

Loi Kroh leaves me alone as long as I leave it alone.

A fair point, that.

[cheshiregent]

the best thing they can do is close all the girly bars down move them to an area on the outskirts of town then normal decent people can enjoy a night out with out hello sexy man i go with you the kind of tourist we get in cm are less and less inclined to be after that kind of thing in resent years the scum mostly goes down south thank god as they are the kind of unwanted trash that spoil it for the rest of us then the few we do get can go to the new areas and drink them selfs into a gutter and get a hooker

they are the ones that course all the problem of noise and fighting so let them do it in there own little hog heaven

loi kroa road is a boil on the backside of c/m and needs cleaning up anyway so lets start with that walking down it is like being in a cheep zombie movie with a clp of lady boy extras ready to pounce on you do people on holiday that have saved up all year to come to thailand really want to see that ?

and in another topic you wrote

sounds to me like the best thing you can do is talk him out of the whole thing just point him in the direction of a half decent looking bar girl slap him on the back say good luck

let her ride the life out of him job done

I'm confused as to what you want. Perhaps just a bite?

there is nothing wrong with a guy coming to thailand for a bit of fun but it should be done in areas away from normal places such as restaurants and family areas

my point is c/m should adopt the same course of action as hua hin have an area for this kind of thing but keep it separate

dont you think c/m would be much better for all concerned if every one new what areas hold the things they want ?

then guys looking for such things could find it all in one place then every one els does not have to see or hear about it

who wants to sit and have dinner across from a table with some old guy and hes ageing lady of the night

each to there own thai visa is not law its about an exchange of ideas and opinions mine is only relevant or of any value to myself

but im entitled to it

[Beetlejuice]

RUBBISH, RUBBISH and total RUBBISH.

Certain venues of Chiang Mai have already been unofficially zoned off.

Over the years nearly all of the farang orientated beerbars and brothels have been shut down and levelled in Chiang Mai and what's left has been contained in one area, the Loi Kroh road.

Chiang Mai land is a street about 2 kilometres outside the main city tourist areas.

During the day it is a hub of the more specialised businesses, such as a newspaper head office, computer shops, lawyers, estate agents and certain brokers.

At night the street transforms into an array of karaoke and VIP clubs more for the purposes of the South East Asian business communities rather than visited by farang tourists here for hard drinking and cheap sex. Even these places seem to be closing down, lack of business.

The Night Bazaar is and always has been sited in an area of it`s own, a part of the Chan Klang Road.

Other than that it is easy for those who find the sights of beerbar girls and drunken farangs offensive to avoid these small areas in the town and never see them at all.

Also keeping in mind that most of the crap bars and massage parlours in and around the Loi Kroh road area are farang owned and they are doing very nicely thank you, because now days since the shutting down of most other bars and brothels in Chiang Mai they have very little competition.

For those holier than thou decent folk who like to mouth off about how these establishments lower the tone of Chiang Mai, it is easy to shout out your puritan values on here, but instead their energies would have a better effect if they where to lobby the police department to enforce the laws regarding corrupt farang owned businesses, if these places upset them so much.

I doubt this will ever happen because the posters moaning on here the most, are just bags of hot air blowing farts out into the wind.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Beetlejuice

[WinnieTheKhwai]

my point is c/m should adopt the same course of action as hua hin have an area for this kind of thing but keep it separate

Huh? Bars in Hua Hin are smack in the middle of a tiny town, a couple blocks from the sea and very much inside the main tourist area, just the same as bar areas in any other Thai town? What's different from Chiang Mai, with tourist bars centered roughly between and around the night bazar and Thapae Gate area? (This is just a wind-up right? Well done in that case, you got me. )

dont you think c/m would be much better for all concerned if every one new what areas hold the things they want ?

then guys looking for such things could find it all in one place then every one els does not have to see or hear about it

who wants to sit and have dinner across from a table with some old guy and hes ageing lady of the night

I think you will find (oh wait, you've been here 3 years ) that the bars were first on Loi Kroh. Restaurants came later. So.. those people who opened restaurants which include the Old Bell, Chez Marco and Mayflower knew very well the area they were opening up shop in, AND they have been successful. And now you want the original bars to move? Good luck with that. It's a free country (economically), thank God.

Edited April 8, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Ulysses G.]

There were ladies of the night here centuries before any sanctimonious farang hypocrites arrived. Leave them be.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Beetlejuice]

There were ladies of the night here centuries before any sanctimonious farang hypocrites arrived. Leave them be.

Right.

And in Chiang Mai the nightlife is certainly not in your face or over the top, like Pattaya for example. It is there if you want to look for it, otherwise easy to avoid.

And as I said, zoning has already unofficially taken place.

The infrastructure is already here, it only has to be made official then it is complete.

[Beetlejuice]

the best thing they can do is close all the girly bars down move them to an area on the outskirts of town

then normal decent people can enjoy a night out with out hello sexy man i go with you the kind of tourist we get in cm are less and less inclined

to be after that kind of thing in resent years

the scum mostly goes down south thank god as they are the kind of unwanted trash that spoil it for the rest of us

then the few we do get can go to the new areas and drink them selfs into a gutter and get a hooker

they are the ones that course all the problem of noise and fighting so let them do it in there own little hog heaven

loi kroa road is a boil on the backside of c/m and needs cleaning up anyway so lets start with that

walking down it is like being in a cheep zombie movie with a clp of lady boy extras ready to pounce on you do people on holiday

that have saved up all year to come to thailand really want to see that ?

At last a sensible and pragmatic response.. Why are so many on this forum hooked on drinking and bar girls. Get a life!! Or go back to your home country. You arrogant people who come here with money to blow give normal farang residents a bad name. But then again it depends on your morals of life or indeed why you came here originally. Thai people are ok, but they need to get by in life. However too many male people from the western world just come her to denigrate the Thai woman and look for cheap sex and then complain when they " appear to get ripped off"

What on earth do you expect when these people without the western social fabric of network or support take you for a ride for your money.

Wake up to the real world. Many Asian countries and especially women have to make do with their lot ...And Asian women are past masters at making a Farang feel good about himself and his loss of ego. And only because of the western feminist world of equality, where women have dictated the pace over the past thirty or forty years and kept men at a lower rung of life..

So much for modernity and yet western women are the first to complain about their spouses and their apparent failures. So women of the West...why is that when you meet a western man that attracted you in the first place because of his character, that as soon as you get ,married , you want to change it?

Sorry a little of topic but it fits in with this topic in an abstract sense and may help some of those disillusioned men who come here for the wrong reason.

What a load of bunkum.

It takes 2 to tango, honey.

And considering that one part of the industry cannot flourish without the other.

The women are the source of the problem. Because these women are offering themselves as a product or a service for hire and the customers just see them as another service to be had for a price.

First you have to eliminate the source or the attraction and stop these women offering themselves as a service. Re educate them and show that there are other alternatives (and there are always other alternatives) then becoming bodily fluid receptacles for the pleasures of men.

Once this is archived, then the cycle is broken.

Most of these women are not victims and venture into this industry fully aware of what they are doing, in the belief that this will bring them in big dollars from gullible men the easy way, in order to bypass them having to work hard for lower wagers and study for years to archive what they want.

The sex workers are the temptation and the desires of men are the dollars that continue to feed this industry. Simple, rid the service of these women of ill repute, meaning the source, end of problem, for those that consider this a problem.

Welcome into the real world.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Beetlejuice

[cmsally]

my point is c/m should adopt the same course of action as hua hin have an area for this kind of thing but keep it separate

Huh? Bars in Hua Hin are smack in the middle of a tiny town, a couple blocks from the sea and very much inside the main tourist area, just the same as bar areas in any other Thai town? What's different from Chiang Mai, with tourist bars centered roughly between and around the night bazar and Thapae Gate area? (This is just a wind-up right? Well done in that case, you got me. )

dont you think c/m would be much better for all concerned if every one new what areas hold the things they want ?

then guys looking for such things could find it all in one place then every one els does not have to see or hear about it

who wants to sit and have dinner across from a table with some old guy and hes ageing lady of the night

I think you will find (oh wait, you've been here 3 years ) that the bars were first on Loi Kroh. Restaurants came later. So.. those people who opened restaurants which include the Old Bell, Chez Marco and Mayflower knew very well the area they were opening up shop in, AND they have been successful. And now you want the original bars to move? Good luck with that. It's a free country (economically), thank God.

Actually before the bars were there it was mainly residential with a number of silver and textile shops. Presumably regarding any zoning the remaining residents would be the ones to ask. Actually for most Thai people I don't think it really figures much on their radar, unless they live there and are bothered by noise. A lot of Thai entertainment, restaurants etc has moved to the suburbs in the past 10 or so years. Central tourist entertainment areas have become less in focus for them.

[el jefe]

A better question is -- Why did Chesiregent reopen a 7 year old thread to complain about zoning laws that were proposed in 2004???

imho, the zoning is just fine. Once in a while, when I happen to go to a Loi Kroh restaurant, I have no trouble ignoring the places and people I'm not interested in. Maybe the ChesireGent can't say "no".

[WinnieTheKhwai]

A better question is -- Why did Chesiregent reopen a 7 year old thread to complain about zoning laws that were proposed in 2004???

imho, the zoning is just fine. Once in a while, when I happen to go to a Loi Kroh restaurant, I have no trouble ignoring the places and people I'm not interested in. Maybe the ChesireGent can't say "no".

It's an old topic, but it remains a topic worthy of debate even in 2011.

@CMSally: The residents that are left on that road have seen their property value explode.. I can't imagine they're too unhappy about it. (At any time they can cash in.). Of course there may be some, but residents are properly a minority compared to business (shop/resto/bar) owners.

Do sometimes wonder about the very old, dark wooden house that sits right near the bottom of Loi Kroh. It's a modest but nice wooden house, the value when restored/done up properly would be very, very high.

[Lizard2010]

A better question is -- Why did Chesiregent reopen a 7 year old thread to complain about zoning laws that were proposed in 2004???

imho, the zoning is just fine. Once in a while, when I happen to go to a Loi Kroh restaurant, I have no trouble ignoring the places and people I'm not interested in. Maybe the ChesireGent can't say "no".

It's an old topic, but it remains a topic worthy of debate even in 2011.

@CMSally: The residents that are left on that road have seen their property value explode.. I can't imagine they're too unhappy about it. (At any time they can cash in.). Of course there may be some, but residents are properly a minority compared to business (shop/resto/bar) owners.

Do sometimes wonder about the very old, dark wooden house that sits right near the bottom of Loi Kroh. It's a modest but nice wooden house, the value when restored/done up properly would be very, very high.

You mean the one near the Downtown Inn Hotel.

If so maybe it might be devalued at the moment.

Is the Downtown Inn Hotel still open.

After all the problems their! :jap:

[ChiangMaiFun]

the best thing they can do is close all the girly bars down move them to an area on the outskirts of town

then normal decent people can enjoy a night out with out hello sexy man i go with you the kind of tourist we get in cm are less and less inclined

to be after that kind of thing in resent years

the scum mostly goes down south thank god as they are the kind of unwanted trash that spoil it for the rest of us

then the few we do get can go to the new areas and drink them selfs into a gutter and get a hooker

they are the ones that course all the problem of noise and fighting so let them do it in there own little hog heaven

loi kroa road is a boil on the backside of c/m and needs cleaning up anyway so lets start with that

walking down it is like being in a cheep zombie movie with a clp of lady boy extras ready to pounce on you do people on holiday

that have saved up all year to come to thailand really want to see that ?

so don't walk down it...

[Foxman888]

the best thing they can do is close all the girly bars down move them to an area on the outskirts of town

then normal decent people can enjoy a night out with out hello sexy man i go with you the kind of tourist we get in cm are less and less inclined

to be after that kind of thing in resent years

the scum mostly goes down south thank god as they are the kind of unwanted trash that spoil it for the rest of us

then the few we do get can go to the new areas and drink them selfs into a gutter and get a hooker

they are the ones that course all the problem of noise and fighting so let them do it in there own little hog heaven

loi kroa road is a boil on the backside of c/m and needs cleaning up anyway so lets start with that

walking down it is like being in a cheep zombie movie with a clp of lady boy extras ready to pounce on you do people on holiday

that have saved up all year to come to thailand really want to see that ?

I'd wager that if people have saved up all year to come to Thailand and go to Loi Kroh then yes thats exactly what they want to see....

It's not exactly Pattaya or Sukhumvit is it? Pretty easy to avoid if you want to.

[Mapguy]

There were ladies of the night here centuries before any sanctimonious farang hypocrites arrived. Leave them be.

"Ladies of the night!". A great expression that has that lovely Victorian ring to it!

Loi Kroh's big problem is lack of parking! It is fun to walk the street at most hours: a couple of okay pubs and a couple of decent restaurants; some nice shops. Smile and wave to the girls and katoi! They'll smile and wave back. There really aren't that many around. Adds a little personality!

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, TV CM Friends,

What a fascinating thread on the psychological construction of a geographic sexual mythology !

Can we assume, from these posts, that for many, here, the entire span of the actual street, Loy Kroh, is somehow psychically contaminated by the activities in, at most, less than half-a-kilometer of it ?

Does a mysterious psychological equivalent of "carbon monoxide" travel down the street from the bar-beers, waylaying the patrons of the Olde Belle, the guests at the Raming Lodge, or patients at Dr. Tawatchai's Clinic (or is the source of this entrancingly dangerous, even potentially fatal, vapor perhaps piped up from the DownTown Inn, via underground gaseous aquifers, to be ventilated at the top of the street, thence to flow downward towards the Ping) ?

We are sure, if this is the case, said toxic effluent must skip around the Wat on the street (did you forget there's a Wat on Loy Kroh, just opposite Dr. T.'s ?).

How many kathoeys, per kilometer, have to be "on station soliciting" for how many hours per night in order that the whole street becomes in one's mind a "sexual combat zone."

The idea, floated by one poster on this thread, that it is the Thai women engaged in sex-work, in the relatively small zone of Loy Kroh where that happpens, who are to blame for both the temptations and behaviors of farang males, and their perception of the whole street as an "avenue of abominations," is truly fantastic, and reminds us of how, in our travels and study in India, long ago, we encountered living examples of certain Hindu males' religiously-validated beliefs that women are the sexually lustful, and tempting, and that it is woman's sexuality that must be "restrained," not men's: coupled with the idea that a man's semen (bindu) is his treasure of vitality, and, if spent diminishes said male's power in every dimension, and, if "stored up," is a source of spiritual, material, even, in the case of ascetic renunciates, 'supernatural' (siddhi), power.

Let us try out a hypothesis: the extent of fascination with activities in a small zone of a street named Loy Kroh is directly correlated to the degree of either self-righteousness, or sexual frustration, or both, in those ensorcelled.

And, a corollary hypothesis: a person indulging in elaborate psychological explanations of said behaviors, perhaps invoking fantasized "innate" qualities of human beings of one sex, or another, or mixed-genders, or religious dogma, rather than looking at a simple conjunction of serendipity (random events), and economic-power motives at play, is performing a type of auto-erotic stimulation: a kind of psychological frottage which, performed in public, is also exhibitionism.

best, ~o:37;

p.s. we can perhaps reveal our bias best here by daring to quote the immortal Dante:

"Purgatorio, Canto XVI, lines 79-83:

'A maggior forza e a miglior natura liberi soggiacete; e quella cria

la mente in voi, che 'l ciel no ha in sua cura. Però, se 'l mondo

presente disvia, in voi è la cagione, in voi si cheggia.'

'To a greater force, and to a better nature, you, free, are subject,

and that creates the mind in you, which the heavens have not in their

charge. Therefore if the present world go astray, the cause is in you,

in you it is to be sought.' "

Edited April 9, 2011 by orang37

[WinnieTheKhwai]

There were ladies of the night here centuries before any sanctimonious farang hypocrites arrived. Leave them be.

"Ladies of the night!". A great expression that has that lovely Victorian ring to it!

Loi Kroh's big problem is lack of parking! It is fun to walk the street at most hours: a couple of okay pubs and a couple of decent restaurants; some nice shops. Smile and wave to the girls and katoi! They'll smile and wave back. There really aren't that many around. Adds a little personality!

Like!

Parking is not usually an issue for me.. Little creativity and a 1 minute walk.

[Rinrada]

l always park in the D2Wan CP and since we know most of the staff just get you tic stamped before heading home.

LCR,Red Lion,CM Saloon,No1 bar...and expecially Old Bell all make for a most pleasant me-ander on a dusky Sunday Evening (or any other night for that matter)

A late sojourn and quiet beer/chat with one of Jucy Lucys girls makes a perfect stimulating conclusion to the quiet serenity and magic of what is CM......but I hate Burger King....

[sbk]

Flames deleted, keep it civil.

but I must say I am also confused as to the need to dig up a 7 year old thread.